Which party engages in more extreme distortion of facts?

[Baculus]

Republican. "Death Panels" and "War on Terror" are just some examples. :helmet:

Seriously. It is hard to think of a single issue that has not bee distorted by the GOP. This goes back as far as I can remember, when I was watching Oliver North testify about Iran-Contra. When members of the Reagan administration lied about their involvement.

It's the same old GOP dirty tricks.

Take, for example, the health care debate as a prime example of these "dirty tricks."

[LApunkrocker72]

The Republican party, by far and away, distorts the facts more.

[ACW]

To those who said libertarians, EXPLAIN YOURSELVES! :coach:

[Baculus]

To those who said libertarians, EXPLAIN YOURSELVES! :coach:

Poor libertarians. There they are, hanging out, minding their own business . . . .

[mardi gras skin]

The consensus seems to be that the GOP distorts and the dems try their best to play it straight. So here are a few examples of what I consider to be distortions and fear mongering by the left. It didn't take much time to find these and there were plenty more.

"There was two kinds of slaves. There was the house Negro and the field Negro. The house Negroes, they lived in the house with master, they dressed pretty good, they ate good 'cause they ate his food and what he left...In those days he was called a 'house ******.' And that's what we call him today, because we've still got some house ******s running around here"

Harry Belafonte quoting Malcolm X, referencing Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powell.

"The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not 'terrorists' or the 'enemy.' They are the Revolution, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow - and they will win."

Michael Moore

“Not doing it (taking drastic action to correct global warming) will be catastrophic. We’ll be eight degrees hotter in ten, not ten but 30 or 40 years and basically none of the crops will grow. Most of the people will have died and the rest of us will be cannibals.”

Ted Turner

"It's time for us to come together. It's time for us to rebuild New Orleans — the one that should be a chocolate New Orleans. This city will be a majority African American city. It's the way God wants it to be. You can't have New Orleans no other way. It wouldn't be New Orleans"........"This city will be chocolate at the end of the day."

Mayor Ray Nagin

“We pay the soldiers a decent wage, take care of their families, provide them with housing and medical care and vast social support systems and ship obscene amenities into the war zone for them, we support them in every possible way, and their attitude is that we should in addition roll over and play dead, defer to the military and the generals and let them fight their war, and give up our rights and responsibilities to speak up because they are above society?... [it] is just an ugly reminder of the price we pay for a mercenary - oops sorry, volunteer - force that thinks it is doing the dirty work.”

William Arkin

"We need to radically and intelligently reduce human population to fewer than one billion."

Paul Watson

[Larry]

The consensus seems to be that the GOP distorts and the dems try their best to play it straight.

1) I haven't seen a single person claim that "the dems try their best to play it straight". I don't think there's a single poster on ES who's drunk that much Kool Aid.

Closest I've seen are some people claiming that the Dems aren't as bad.

2) Observing that your quotes contain exactly one quote from someone who could claim to represent the Democratic Party. And while I'd agree that Mayor Nagin comes across as a doofus (and a racist) in his quote, could you point me at the fact which he lied about?

[Baculus]

The consensus seems to be that the GOP distorts and the dems try their best to play it straight. So here are a few examples of what I consider to be distortions and fear mongering by the left. It didn't take much time to find these and there were plenty more.[/quyote]

All these people aren't "the left" nor Democrats.

"There was two kinds of slaves. There was the house Negro and the field Negro. The house Negroes, they lived in the house with master, they dressed pretty good, they ate good 'cause they ate his food and what he left...In those days he was called a 'house ******.' And that's what we call him today, because we've still got some house ******s running around here"

Harry Belafonte quoting Malcolm X, referencing Condoleeza Rice and Colin Powell.

Belafonte's had his own opinion for a long time. After all, the guy lived during the Civil Rights period. He experienced racism first hand. This probably colored his opinion.

BTW, Belafonte is not an official in the Democratic party.

"The Iraqis who have risen up against the occupation are not 'terrorists' or the 'enemy.' They are the Revolution, the Minutemen, and their numbers will grow - and they will win."

Michael Moore

Considering Cheney opposed driving to Baghdad for, in essence, this reason, I don't think Moore's opinion was off base. We knew a resistance would arise when we invaded Iraq. Only a fool would have expected anything else. As it was, it took a couple of years before the Bush administration would even use the word "insurgent."

We now know there is a popular resistance which isn't linked to Al-Qaida. These secular resistance groups are also some of the groups that we are now allied with in the Awakening Councils.

I will add that you can take Moore's last comment, ". . . and they will win," in a few different ways, based upon one's opinion of Michael Moore.

“Not doing it (taking drastic action to correct global warming) will be catastrophic. We’ll be eight degrees hotter in ten, not ten but 30 or 40 years and basically none of the crops will grow. Most of the people will have died and the rest of us will be cannibals.”

Ted Turner[

Turner repeated what the scientific community has been saying for several years. Also, that last comment is typical Ted Turner -- he makes off-the-wall comments. It is difficult to take it seriously.

BTW, Ted Turner is not in the Democratic party.

"It's time for us to come together. It's time for us to rebuild New Orleans — the one that should be a chocolate New Orleans. This city will be a majority African American city. It's the way God wants it to be. You can't have New Orleans no other way. It wouldn't be New Orleans"........"This city will be chocolate at the end of the day."

Mayor Ray Nagin

Wow, you found a Democrat! Good going!

Nagin makes questionable statements, such as the ones he made about Mexican workers immigrating to the city. Of course, the irony is that many in the GOP would agree with that statement, so I guess he isn't such a radical after, eh?

“We pay the soldiers a decent wage, take care of their families, provide them with housing and medical care and vast social support systems and ship obscene amenities into the war zone for them, we support them in every possible way, and their attitude is that we should in addition roll over and play dead, defer to the military and the generals and let them fight their war, and give up our rights and responsibilities to speak up because they are above society?... [it] is just an ugly reminder of the price we pay for a mercenary - oops sorry, volunteer - force that thinks it is doing the dirty work.”

William Arkin

Seriously. William Arkin? I don't even think this former soldier is even a Democrat. I didn't even know the guy was until I looked him up via Google.

Did you? Does anyone?

"We need to radically and intelligently reduce human population to fewer than one billion."

Paul Watson

This guy is a Canadian -- he isn't an American, let alone a Democrat. Second -- who is Paul Watson? Is he supposed to be a high profile liberal or something?

Also, I Googled this quote. Here is the full statement he made:

"We need to radically and intelligently reduce human populations to fewer than one billion. We need to eliminate nationalism and tribalism and become Earthlings. And as Earthlings, we need to recognize that all the other species that live on this planet are also fellow citizens and also Earthlings. This is a planet of incredible diversity of life-forms; it is not a planet of one species as many of us believe."

http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/editorial-070504-1.html

I think it says a lot that you have to find some obscure inviduals as an attempt to prove your point.

I could take quotes from just this year to prove a point. Take, for example, the joke from GOP Rep. Rex Rammell about "hunting Obama." Or Newt Gingrich calling Spanish a "ghetto language." Or all the Republicans making outrageous statements about so-called "ObamaCare." Or all the anti-stimulus Republicans who are secretly requesting federal money and running around their states taking credit for these funds while they publicly oppose it.

Just go to this site, look on the first few pages, and you will see example after example of GOP distortions. REAL GOP distortions.

http://thinkprogress.org/

[Zguy28]

Seriously. It is hard to think of a single issue that has not bee distorted by the GOP. This goes back as far as I can remember, when I was watching Oliver North testify about Iran-Contra. When members of the Reagan administration lied about their involvement.

It's the same old GOP dirty tricks.

Take, for example, the health care debate as a prime example of these "dirty tricks."

There is dirty tricks on both sides. Don't act like your side is clean.

[Zguy28]

BTW, Belafonte is not an official in the Democratic party.

Neither are you, but sometimes you make them look bad.

[killerbee99]

There is dirty tricks on both sides. Don't act like your side is clean.

Topic of the thread is who engages in EXTREME distortion, not who is clean.....reading is fundamental my friend.....and republicans win by a mile, the DEMS do it as well....but the REPUBS are really disgusting with the way they distort ****......Obama's death panels will decide wether people like my Trig can either live or die....Palin....****ing lie

[Larry]

Wondering what it says about the question, that I've seen multiple posts, here, from posters who seem to think that the proper response to "I think Side X is worse" is "How dare you claim that Side Y is perfect?".

And as near as I can tell, all of them have been from one "side".

:halo:

[LaxBuddy21]

Is does it matter an option?

"No your side is worse"

"No yours is worse!"

[llcamino]

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program."

President Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998.

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process."

Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998.

"We know that he has stored secret supplies of biological and chemical weapons throughout his country."

Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002

"Iraq's search for weapons of mass destruction has proven impossible to deter and we should assume that it will continue for as long as Saddam is in power."

Al Gore, Sept. 23, 2002.

etc, etc

Honestly, can most of these be counted against the Dems since the majority of them are just democrats irresponsibly repeating the lies that were thought up by the Bush administration? You can call these democrats idiots for not doing their due dilligence and buying into the Bush/Cheney B.S., but to cite that as fear mongering is a little ridiculous. At least the Dems finally came to their senses, unlike Bush/Cheney who continued to hammer it home.

"You're a fear-mongerer because you believed our lies!" :doh:

Shouldn't we focus on the lies and distortions that the "other" side disagrees with?

[Larry]

Is does it matter an option?

"No your side is worse"

"No yours is worse!"

Your opinion is that the fact that a lot of voters, the ultimate power in our political system, are making decisions of national importance based on deliberate lies, isn't important?

[mardi gras skin]

2) Observing that your quotes contain exactly one quote from someone who could claim to represent the Democratic Party. And while I'd agree that Mayor Nagin comes across as a doofus (and a racist) in his quote, could you point me at the fact which he lied about?

Observing that much of the concern over GOP distortions involve talking heads never elected to office and do not represent the party.

Nagin evoked God's will in claiming that New Orleans will forever be a chocolate city. Imagine the major of Birmingham invoking God's will in declaring that Birmingham is and always will be a white city. I'm going to call this threatening and racist as well as stupid.

[mardi gras skin]

This is such a stupid game but I'll play it this once You'll counter, and I'll say, "You win. You care much more about defending the libs than I do the conservatives."

Belafonte's had his own opinion for a long time. After all, the guy lived during the Civil Rights period. He experienced racism first hand. This probably colored his opinion.

Doesn't matter. Many pedophiles were abused as children...they're still pedophiles. Belafonte is responsible for abusive hatred.

BTW, Belafonte is not an official in the Democratic party.

Neither is Rush Limbaugh, but the GOP gets saddled with his stupid comments.

I will add that you can take Moore's last comment, ". . . and they will win," in a few different ways, based upon one's opinion of Michael Moore.

Sure you could. If you want, you can see all these quotes on both sides through rose colored glasses. That's why you really, truly believe the GOP is worse than the Dems. You're operating out of your bias.

Turner repeated what the scientific community has been saying for several years. Also, that last comment is typical Ted Turner -- he makes off-the-wall comments. It is difficult to take it seriously.

Well sure. He makes off the wall comments that shouldn't be taken seriously. Let's just forget this one, right?

BTW, Ted Turner is not in the Democratic party.

Everything I've found says he's a democrat. He supported Kerry for president, right?

Nagin makes questionable statements, such as the ones he made about Mexican workers immigrating to the city.

His comments are racist. That isn't questionable.

Seriously. William Arkin? I don't even think this former soldier is even a Democrat. I didn't even know the guy was until I looked him up via Google.

Did you? Does anyone?

I had no idea who Joe the Plumber was before opened his mouth either. William Arkin got far enough along to become a talking head.

I Googled this quote. Here is the full statement he made:

"We need to radically and intelligently reduce human populations to fewer than one billion. We need to eliminate nationalism and tribalism and become Earthlings. And as Earthlings, we need to recognize that all the other species that live on this planet are also fellow citizens and also Earthlings. This is a planet of incredible diversity of life-forms; it is not a planet of one species as many of us believe."

http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/editorial-070504-1.html

Right. He said that we need to reduce the world population from almost 7 billion down to 1 billion. I think that makes him a nut job. Don't you?

Now, I'll deflect and spin the stupid GOP comments you quote since we're both playing the roll of mindless party drones:

Take, for example, the joke from GOP Rep. Rex Rammell about "hunting Obama."

GOP blasts Idaho candidate's 'Obama tags' comment

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iOmeH2w9CG7tbMZBMOVvbmG3XwKAD9AC4KC00

Doesn't this speak well of the GOP? Why didn't the dems blast Nagin?

Newt Gingrich calling Spanish a "ghetto language."

He said continuing bilingual education “the language of living in a ghetto”. He feels that bilingual education (not specifically spanish but all bilingual education) is ultimately a hinderance to the integration of the student into society. He said it poorly, but that was his intent and he clarified his point later.

Or all the anti-stimulus Republicans who are secretly requesting federal money and running around their states taking credit for these funds while they publicly oppose it.

Their constituents will be forced to pay the tax increases that result from the stimulus. Its one thing to be against it, quite another thing to be forced to pay for it and not get any benefit from it.

See? Annoying right?

[mardi gras skin]

Honestly, can most of these be counted against the Dems since the majority of them are just democrats irresponsibly repeating the lies that were thought up by the Bush administration?

Not credible. There are just too many quotes from democrats before Bush took office.

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." --Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." --Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." Letter to President Clinton, signed by: -- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies." -- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

[Baculus]

Observing that much of the concern over GOP distortions involve talking heads never elected to office and do not represent the party.

Those non-GOP elected individuals are also leading influential figures in the movement. Those people you listed are not. Also, in this thread, we're talking about GOP distortions, such as health care misinformation, much of which are directly tied with these non-elected media figures. Take, for example, Rush Limbaugh, whose words often become repeated by the GOP. Or the infamous Glenn Beck.

Nagin evoked God's will in claiming that New Orleans will forever be a chocolate city. Imagine the major of Birmingham invoking God's will in declaring that Birmingham is and always will be a white city. I'm going to call this threatening and racist as well as stupid.

Watch that HBO documentary on Katrina, "HBO: When the Levees Broke: A Requiem in Four Acts ," and you will understand a little better. There's a feeling among some people that there's a concerted effort to remove black New Orleans' neighborhoods and to replace them with developments or business sectors. This is the context in which mayor Nagin was referring -- that basically, he isn't going to let any developers push out the black population.

A page such as this outlines some of the accusations:

http://cwsworkshop.org/katrinareader/node/160

Nagin didn't make his words just to be racist. After all, the civil rights movement was less than fifty years ago.

It must also be noted that Nagin later apologized for his words:

http://www.cnn.com/2006/US/01/17/nagin.city/

[Baculus]

Neither are you, but sometimes you make them look bad.

My opinions are my own. If you have a dispute with what I say, then voice it. I am ready to defend whatever statements I make.

[Baculus]

Not credible. There are just too many quotes from democrats before Bush took office.

"One way or the other, we are determined to deny Iraq the capacity to develop weapons of mass destruction and the missiles to deliver them. That is our bottom line." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 4, 1998

How is that a lie?

"If Saddam rejects peace and we have to use force, our purpose is clear. We want to seriously diminish the threat posed by Iraq's weapons of mass destruction program." --President Bill Clinton, Feb. 17, 1998

How is that a lie?

"Iraq is a long way from [here], but what happens there matters a great deal here. For the risks that the leaders of a rogue state will use nuclear, chemical or biological weapons against us or our allies is the greatest security threat we face." --Madeline Albright, Feb 18, 1998

How is that a lie?

"He will use those weapons of mass destruction again, as he has ten times since 1983." --Sandy Berger, Clinton National Security Adviser, Feb, 18, 1998

I am not sure how many times Saddam used WMDs, so I cannot say if that is a lie or not. Can you prove if his context is truthful or not?

"[W]e urge you, after consulting with Congress, and consistent with the U.S. Constitution and laws, to take necessary actions (including, if appropriate, air and missile strikes on suspect Iraqi sites) to respond effectively to the threat posed by Iraq's refusal to end its weapons of mass destruction programs." Letter to President Clinton, signed by: -- Democratic Senators Carl Levin, Tom Daschle, John Kerry, and others, Oct. 9, 1998

Again -- how is that a lie?

"Saddam Hussein has been engaged in the development of weapons of mass destruction technology which is a threat to countries in the region and he has made a mockery of the weapons inspection process." -Rep. Nancy Pelosi (D, CA), Dec. 16, 1998

We know that was true at one point -- in 1998? Not sure if he was indeed still manufacturing.

"Hussein has ... chosen to spend his money on building weapons of mass destruction and palaces for his cronies." -- Madeline Albright, Clinton Secretary of State, Nov. 10, 1999

She's partially right. He did build weapons at one point, and he built a lot of palaces.

Otherwise, these quotes are really more indicative of a failed policy towards Iraq. I cannot blame the Bush administration for information dating from the 90s which may or may not have been accurate. I can blame members of his administration who pushed the war, even though their intelligence was less than faithful or honest.

[mardi gras skin]

Watch that HBO documentary on Katrina, "HBO: When the Levees Broke: A Requiem in Four Acts ," and you will understand a little better. There's a feeling among some people that there's a concerted effort to remove black New Orleans' neighborhoods and to replace them with developments or business sectors. This is the context in which mayor Nagin was referring -- that basically, he isn't going to let any developers push out the black population.

Man, I don't need to watch a documentary to understand New Orleans racism or politics. I know what Nagin was saying, who he was saying it too, and what he his constituents were hearing. I also know what the hispanic residents heard.

[mardi gras skin]

How is that a lie?

So all the quotes from democrats about Iraq's WMD's from before Bush are truthful. All the democratic quotes from the time Bush takes office are lies but lies fed to them by the Bush administration.

Do you really believe this stuff?

[Baculus]

This is such a stupid game but I'll play it this once You'll counter, and I'll say, "You win. You care much more about defending the libs than I do the conservatives."

We are talking about the GOP. You quote some random people, completely off the topic of the thread, and I am supposed to accept them as relevant?

Your snarky reply doesn't help your position out at all, either.

Doesn't matter. Many pedophiles were abused as children...they're still pedophiles. Belafonte is responsible for abusive hatred.

I cannot even take your replies seriously if this is the best you can do. Abuse hatred?

:doh:

And what part of "Bellafonte is not an elected Democratic official" do you not understand"?

Neither is Rush Limbaugh, but the GOP gets saddled with his stupid comments.

Of course they do because they willingly repeat those those "stupid statements." They aren't "saddled" when them if they willingly use his language.

Don't act as if this is some involuntary relationship. Whatever happened to responsibility?

Sure you could. If you want, you can see all these quotes on both sides through rose colored glasses. That's why you really, truly believe the GOP is worse than the Dems. You're operating out of your bias.

Instead of discussing health care in the context of bureaucratic or fiscal issues, we get "death panels," cries of "socialism" or "fascism," "they want to unplug grandma," "euthanasia," and outright distortions of H.R. 3200.

No lie is too big in the effort to kill health reform.

I expect intelligent, principled debate based on a factual foundation, not these lies which have recently been repeated by the GOP.

Silly me and my rose colored glasses which expected a real debate on this issue, and not one based on a wave of conservative populism stoked by red-baiting and the exact distortions that we are discussing on this thread.

Yes, I truly believe the GOP has been more dishonest because they have. Without a doubt. No ifs, ands, or buts.

Well sure. He makes off the wall comments that shouldn't be taken seriously. Let's just forget this one, right?

First of all, is he an elected official in the Democratic party? Second, go ahead and read Ted Turner quotes, and then tell me, with a straight face, that Turner believes we are going to be cannibals.

Everything I've found says he's a democrat. He supported Kerry for president, right?

I will ask you again. Is he an elected official? Yes or no. And I will ask you again -- do you honestly believe that Turner feels we are going to turn into cannibals?

You're really stretching with each and every reply.

His comments are racist. That isn't questionable.

Read my previous post.

I had no idea who Joe the Plumber was before opened his mouth either. William Arkin got far enough along to become a talking head.

The guy isn't even American. Are you so desperate to prove your point that you quote a CANADIAN environmentalist.

Let me repeat it one more time: He is a Canadian. That nullifies whatever point you had.

Right. He said that we need to reduce the world population from almost 7 billion down to 1 billion. I think that makes him a nut job. Don't you?

Why would I care what this guy said? How does it pertain to a debate between the foibles of two AMERICAN political parties?

Now, I'll deflect and spin the stupid GOP comments you quote since we're both playing the roll of mindless party drones:

I have the ability to admit that the Democrats have their faults. I am not a drone because I am not even a registered Democrat. But I don't twist myself into philosophical pretzels to defend a bunch of lies, such as the ones from the GOP.

GOP blasts Idaho candidate's 'Obama tags' comment

http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5iOmeH2w9CG7tbMZBMOVvbmG3XwKAD9AC4KC00

Yeah, that totally nullifies what he said, especially since he is not withdrawing his words. It goes along with all of the subtle little racist remarks which have been coming out of the GOP since Obama's election.

Doesn't this speak well of the GOP? Why didn't the dems blast Nagin?

They did.

He said continuing bilingual education “the language of living in a ghetto”. He feels that bilingual education (not specifically spanish but all bilingual education) is ultimately a hinderance to the integration of the student into society. He said it poorly, but that was his intent and he clarified his point later.

Yeah. It really didn't make his statement that much better, mostly because it was a Freudian slip.

Gingrich has a habit of twisting the truth. He'll say whatever it takes to make his point. Here is one page which demonstrates this:

http://mediamatters.org/research/200905120011

He's also one of the people who, for example, support Sarah Palin's "death panel" claims, along with all of the other GOP distortions leveled against H.R. 3200.

Their constituents will be forced to pay the tax increases that result from the stimulus. Its one thing to be against it, quite another thing to be forced to pay for it and not get any benefit from it.

It's political games. Bobby Jindal was one of the main opponents against the Congressional stimulus bill. What did he do? He ran around to different LA parishes, handing out stimulus checks, taking credit for this allocation of money, while refusing to give any credit to the Congressional bill for these funds.

And he isn't the only one doing it -- there are several other GOP governors playing the same game: make a big noise about "federal spending" then eagerly seeking the money for their state.

See? Annoying right?

The only thing annoying is your effort to find random, non-Democratics and somehow claim they represent the party. It does nothing to prove your point. At all.

[Baculus]

So all the quotes from democrats about Iraq's WMD's from before Bush are truthful. All the democratic quotes from the time Bush takes office are lies but lies fed to them by the Bush administration.

Do you really believe this stuff?

Half and half. Some of the information form the 90s was bogus which eventually became an "intelligence myth:" about Saddam. I do not fault the Bush administration for believing in such dubious (and out of date) information. That hasn't necessarily been my issue with the Bush administration, and the Clinton administration has to take some of the blame.

What I do blame, though, are individuals such as Dick Cheney, who specifically created his own "Iraqi" White House intelligence unit since the CIA and military intelligence data did not fit into his pro-invasion stance.

This article discusses the efforts of the Bush administration to "fix the facts" to create a pro-invasion atmosphere in Congress and the American public.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article4466512.ece

This nation discusses this further:

http://www.thenation.com/blogs/capitalgames/120112

[Baculus]

Man, I don't need to watch a documentary to understand New Orleans racism or politics. I know what Nagin was saying, who he was saying it too, and what he his constituents were hearing. I also know what the hispanic residents heard.

Oh really? You don't have to watch a documentary about New Orleans after Katrina to understand? Wow. I didn't realize you were omniscient.

"I don't need no fancy book learning!"

I would disagree, since you don't seem to have understood why he made them. It's like the Gingrich comment: I understood WHY he said it, but it was a piss-poor way of saying it. This applies to Nagin's words, too.

Unless you have visited New Orleans and some of the developing areas, I suggest you watch the video. Every American should, because it is about the plight of fellow citizens in one of our oldest and greatest cities. But if that doesn't interest you, then this discussion is entirely pointless.