HawaiianTime Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 The point ----------------------------->Your head-----------:confused: Unless you think skin color has anything to do with how racist a person is. In which case you got bigger issues than here in the stadium. Maybe if you read the quote I was referring to, you might have noticed this quote, Originally Posted by communion5 white folks love the word "race-card" when a statement they think is designed to make them feel guilty is said. then they talk about money, like making a bunch of money excuses intolerance, these are mostly republicans, (strong in redskin nation, but really a dying breed) that roll their windows up in black neighborhoods, and crack black jokes at bars during games. I'm not white and yet I saw what JC said as unnecessary and uncalled for. So why don't you think a little before you post something as stupid as your post. Racism has and is most often about skin color. I've seen how stupid the arguments go back and forth and don't even act like blacks aren't racist, or indians, or asians. I made lite of the comment because I'm not white. I'm actually a mix and have never used my race as an excuse for anything. It's this statement that everyone is talking about. "There are still double-standards in this league for African-American quarterbacks. You have to be great to be good. And others who are half as good are considered great. That is not an excuse, that is a fact. I don't make excuses. I was raised to understand it is not always about you. You have to give respect to get respect. You have to work. I grew up in Taylorsville, Miss., where the village raised the family. What you did, someone saw it." I'm wondering who has the double standard. I don't, but it's obvious JC thinks he is not being treated fairly. Is it anybody that criticizes JC have a double standard? My, Wilcots must be racist because he said Zorn must take the training wheels off of Campbells offense. See how silly this starts to become. Just get out there and play and stop making excuses. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Mike Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Without a doubt the QB is the most important player on a team. But you fail to recognize the rest of the team. Patriots went 11-5 without Tom Brady. The patriots are a great team. But Matt Castle also turned out to be a damn good QB and he still couldn't take them as far as Brady did. Had Brady been playing it might have been another superbowl run for them. Up through Bowl XLII, the winning starting quarterbacks have been: Bart Starr, Green Bay Packers - SB I Bart Starr, Green Bay Packers - SB II Joe Namath, New York Jets - SBIII Len Dawson, Kansas City Chiefs - SB IV Johnny Unitas, Baltimore Colts - SB V Roger Staubach, Dallas Cowboys - SB VI Bob Griese, Miami Dolphins - SB VII Bob Griese, Miami Dolphins - SB VIII Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB IX Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB X Ken Stabler, Oakland Raiders - SB XI Roger Staubach, Dallas Cowboys - SB XII Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XIII Terry Bradshaw, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XIV Jim Plunkett, Oakland Raiders - SB XV Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XVI Joe Theismann, Washington Redskins - SB XVII Jim Plunkett, Los Angeles Raiders - SB XVIII Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XIX Jim McMahon, Chicago Bears - SB XX Phil Simms, New York Giants - SB XXI Doug Williams, Washington Redskins - SB XXII Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIII Joe Montana, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIV Jeff Hostetler, New York Giants - SB XXV Mark Rypien, Washington Redskins - SB XXVI Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXVII Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXVIII Steve Young, San Francisco 49ers - SB XXIX Troy Aikman, Dallas Cowboys - SB XXX Brett Favre, Green Bay Packers - SB XXXI John Elway, Denver Broncos - SB XXXII John Elway, Denver Broncos - SB XXXIII Kurt Warner, St. Louis Rams - SB XXXIV Trent Dilfer, Baltimore Ravens - SB XXXV Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXVI Brad Johnson, Tampa Bay Buccaneers - SB XXXVII Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXVIII Tom Brady, New England Patriots - SB XXXIX Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XL Peyton Manning, Indianapolis Colts - SB XLI Eli Manning, New York Giants - SB XLII Ben Roethlisberger, Pittsburgh Steelers - SB XLIII Bunch of no-name, no-talent QBs huh? I sure am glad QBs aren't important. :hysterical: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Add in that it's a new HC, a new offense that takes 2 years to install minimum, and I really don't think it's fair or sensible to only write off and bash Campbell. Bar the odd few, I don't see many in these continuing threads putting the blame for the Redskins anaemic O solely on Jason Campbell's shoulders. There's still a major question mark over Zorn and his predictable play calling, and his unwillingness to date to look at him self and change things. The O-line, though not as bad as many make out, had it's fair share of major problems last year. The receiving core was a mixed bag with the rookies. Without them, it was an average at best unit. But within all that there's your first round, 4th year as was, starting QB who thus far has in his career has done little to justify that pick. As much problems as the line had last year, the QB has to take his share of the blame. The last thing an ageing, struggling line needs is a QB that forces them to hold their blocks way longer than can be reasonably expected due to him holding onto the ball a freaking age. And as many drops as the wide outs had, or as many wrong routes as they run, there were equally as many times the QB neglected a wide open receiver, often down field, at the expense of locking in on his primary read, or his 10 yard safety net dump off. And often that primary read was double teamed as it took him so long to decide to throw the darn ball, he gave all the advantage to the opposition secondary. Jason Campbell is by far from the only problem with this offense. But he sure as heck is a major problem in it. And when a thread is put up about him, it's only natural people are gona' signal him out for the continued, basic flaws he brings to the table, and look at other options. It starts and ends with him. If you don't want that responsibility, and the praise/criticism that comes with it, then don't chose the career path of a pro QB. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam291 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Bar the odd few, I don't see many in these continuing threads putting the blame for the Redskins anaemic O solely on Jason Campbell's shoulders. etc etc A fair post, but I'm one who thinks it's way too early to cement an opinion on JC and Zorn and the rest of the offense when looking to the future. There's a very real possibility that much like Matt Hasselbeck, Campbell will go from reviled to turning the team into legitimate contenders. In my opinion, things like holding onto the ball too long and not taking a few more risks are comfort issues which go back to a lot of things from not being used to the offense to not trusting receivers, but I can see a lot of that being addressed with another year under the belt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 A fair post, but I'm one who thinks it's way too early to cement an opinion on JC and Zorn and the rest of the offense when looking to the future. There's a very real possibility that much like Matt Hasselbeck, Campbell will go from reviled to turning the team into legitimate contenders. In my opinion, things like holding onto the ball too long and not taking a few more risks are comfort issues which go back to a lot of things from not being used to the offense to not trusting receivers, but I can see a lot of that being addressed with another year under the belt. Sadly, the great hope and belief I once had in him has been drained away by his sterile on-field displays, and I'm expecting more of the same this coming year. But for what it's worth, as much as I can't see it, I'd much rather your outlook come to fruition; and pray that it does for the good of the B&G. Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Bunch of no-name, no-talent QBs huh? I sure am glad QBs aren't important. :hysterical: Are you saying we consider Super Bowl winning QB's (Trent Dilfer aside) good? You don't say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terpskins10 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Bunch of no-name, no-talent QBs huh? I sure am glad QBs aren't important. :hysterical: True...but do we consider them to be as good as we do BECAUSE they won championships? Ooooh, paradox! *cue twilight zone music* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE HAMMER'IN HOG Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Bar the odd few, I don't see many in these continuing threads putting the blame for the Redskins anaemic O solely on Jason Campbell's shoulders.There's still a major question mark over Zorn and his predictable play calling, and his unwillingness to date to look at him self and change things. The O-line, though not as bad as many make out, had it's fair share of major problems last year. The receiving core was a mixed bag with the rookies. Without them, it was an average at best unit. But within all that there's your first round, 4th year as was, starting QB who thus far has in his career has done little to justify that pick. As much problems as the line had last year, the QB has to take his share of the blame. The last thing an ageing, struggling line needs is a QB that forces them to hold their blocks way longer than can be reasonably expected due to him holding onto the ball a freaking age. And as many drops as the wide outs had, or as many wrong routes as they run, there were equally as many times the QB neglected a wide open receiver, often down field, at the expense of locking in on his primary read, or his 10 yard safety net dump off. And often that primary read was double teamed as it took him so long to decide to throw the darn ball, he gave all the advantage to the opposition secondary. Jason Campbell is by far from the only problem with this offense. But he sure as heck is a major problem in it. And when a thread is put up about him, it's only natural people are gona' signal him out for the continued, basic flaws he brings to the table, and look at other options. It starts and ends with him. If you don't want that responsibility, and the praise/criticism that comes with it, then don't chose the career path of a pro QB. Hail. The thing is GHH is we saw the same exact things with Gibbs at the helm on offense that we saw last year with Zorn, so much so that Gibbs removed himself and brought in Saunders, and as soon as some one other than JC took the helm the offense took off, I just don't think many have a real clue on just how bad JC really is? You don't try and replace the guy the way we went about it after all that has been invested in JC if you remotly think he can play, and if any one thinks Zorn went to Danny, and Vinny and told them JC is the man, and we don't need another QB, and he would stake his job, and reputation on it, think again. I finally read the entire article, and for a guy who doesn't make excuses, he sure makes a lot of excuses. And the whole black white issue sounds like he's setting up a safety net excuse for when he falls this season, as if he's been judged unfairly, or he's been held to a higher accountability, or he's actually so convoluted that he thinks he's played pretty well up until now, which doesn't bode well on his perspective outlook about his ability to get the job done this up coming season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HailGreen28 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Maybe if you read the quote I was referring to, you might have noticed this quote,I'm not white and yet I saw what JC said as unnecessary and uncalled for. So why don't you think a little before you post something as stupid as your post. Racism has and is most often about skin color. I've seen how stupid the arguments go back and forth and don't even act like blacks aren't racist, or indians, or asians. I made lite of the comment because I'm not white. I'm actually a mix and have never used my race as an excuse for anything. It's this statement that everyone is talking about. I'm wondering who has the double standard. I don't, but it's obvious JC thinks he is not being treated fairly. Is it anybody that criticizes JC have a double standard? My, Wilcots must be racist because he said Zorn must take the training wheels off of Campbells offense. See how silly this starts to become. Just get out there and play and stop making excuses. You're still missing the point. Nevermind your post that I quoted was stupid.white folks love the word "race-card" when a statement they think is designed to make them feel guilty is said. then they talk about money, like making a bunch of money excuses intolerance, these are mostly republicans, (strong in redskin nation, but really a dying breed) that roll their windows up in black neighborhoods, and crack black jokes at bars during games. If you don't see this post as racist as the behavior it describes, you really do have issues. Try substituting "black" for "white", "liberal" for "republican", etc. if you have trouble understanding.You also miss the point about Campbell's comments. He was saying there were other problems with the offense that needed to be addressed before him. Can you see how he could feel there's a double standard without bringing race into it? BTW - The people JC has to worry about making judgements are the coaching staff and FO. You think they're being racist in acting like we could use an upgrade over our mediocre starting QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Are you saying we consider Super Bowl winning QB's (Trent Dilfer aside) good? You don't say! Dilfer aside, do you honestly think JC's in the category of any Super Bowl winning QB? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck812 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Dilfer aside, do you honestly think JC's in the category of any Super Bowl winning QB? Better question... How many of those teams are still superbowl teams with JC as the QB? Lets face it, there are a few really really good teams on that list even without their star QB, especially in the 70s and 80s. The steelers last year with Ben won it and Ive never been particulaly impressed with him. Heck, our biggest mistake when we played them last year was knocking him out of the game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Dilfer aside, do you honestly think JC's in the category of any Super Bowl winning QB? Yes. If you don't throw interceptions, you win the playoffs. Eli Manning, recently. Thanks for playing though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ntotoro Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Yes. If you don't throw interceptions, you win the playoffs. Eli Manning, recently. Thanks for playing though. You have to throw a few TD's in there, too, somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 all you have to do is throw 0 INTs and youre a good QB in redskins land. scoring points is for somebody else to do anyways. who would want a QB to throw 25 TDs? not i said the duck! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MustangSteve Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Quote: Originally Posted by stickyshooZ Nobody "hates" Campbell and no one is rooting for his demise. Everyone wants him to succeed (his succeeding = Redskins having more success...do the math), it's a matter of whether or not people have faith in his ability to get the job done. Vicious: What? Do you even read ES? Maybe I need to import your ignore list. Just because many of us fans are hard on Jason Campbell and state the truth when he plays like garbage, doesn't mean we hate the man or pull against him when he's on the field. We love this team and we "hate" to see them lose. And as I just stated above, there's a huge difference in hating the way their playing vs hating them as a person. "There is no such thing as a true Redskins fan pulling for a player or their team to lose"! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCitySkins Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 You have to throw a few TD's in there, too, somewhere. You need someone to throw those TD's to. After the 2nd Giants game, Zorn called the WR's out for running poor routes. If they were still running bad routes after game 15, just think what they were running the rest of the season. The coach of the team made this comment, people. Not posters here on a fan forum. Can't wait to see how the JC bashers slant this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor 36 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 The thing is GHH is we saw the same exact things with Gibbs at the helm on offense that we saw last year with Zorn' date=' so much so that Gibbs removed himself and brought in Saunders, and as soon as some one other than JC took the helm the offense took off, I just don't think many have a real clue on just how bad JC really is? You don't try and replace the guy the way we went about it after all that has been invested in JC if you remotly think he can play, and if any one thinks Zorn went to Danny, and Vinny and told them JC is the man, and we don't need another QB, and he would stake his job, and reputation on it, think again.I finally read the entire article, and for a guy who doesn't make excuses, he sure makes a lot of excuses. And the whole black white issue sounds like he's setting up a safety net excuse for when he falls this season, as if he's been judged unfairly, or he's been held to a higher accountability, or he's actually so convoluted that he thinks he's played pretty well up until now, which doesn't bode well on his perspective outlook about his ability to get the job done this up coming season.[/quote'] :applause: EXCELLENT post. I had an earlier post that said the same thing, but yours was much better written. JC IS making excuses, and he is revving up the excuse train to leave the station once the season gets underway. The one thing the guy did have going for him was his supposed class and not dealing out excuses, but working hard to prepare and fix himself, and taking the high road. This article debunks all of that. Dilfer aside, do you honestly think JC's in the category of any Super Bowl winning QB? Anyone who says yes or that it is too early to tell has more issues than our offense with JC at the helm. I understand people want to be optimistic about their team, but reality has to come into play at some time. As I posted in another thread: I look at this situation like a chauffeur and a limo. If you have a new chauffeur and your limo starts breaking down, you are probably going to give the benefit of the doubt to the driver and take the car into a mechanic. When the car continues to sputter, eventually you're going to either go to a different mechanic, get a new car, or both. IF, after you've gone through a couple of mechanics and your on a new car, the same issues keep happening, you're going to have to wise up that maybe the problem is the constant: the driver. If not, it won't matter how much money you pump into the interior and the sound system and the rims and tires, you're still not going to be getting to where you want to go. And, you will stay stranded on the side of the road watching everyone else pass you as you wait for help. Jason Campbell is the driver, the constant. We have had three different mechanics: Gibbs, Saunders, and Zorn. All of them have been trying to fix the same problems, yet haven't been able to. Hence, we have had people say repeatedly "take the training wheels off." Well, when three different coaches seem to be reluctant to take the "training wheels off," that says either their are issues that are obvious to every offense coordinator that worked with the guy OR maybe the training wheels are being put on by the player, not the coach. We are now using a new car, the WCO. People who say JC isn't cut out for it seem to forget that it was a version of this offense that JC was most successful in in college. However, we are seeing the same sputtering in this car that we saw in the last one. Once again, the constant is the driver. As a fan of this team, I want us to fly down the highway, but I truly feel we will only be able to do that with a new driver. IS Colt that driver? I don't know, but I would much rather take this season to find out what we don't know than to waste time reproving what we already do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 You have to throw a few TD's in there, too, somewhere. Tell that to Eli Manning now that he does not have Plexico Burress. Jason Campbell could have moved the ball without a fantastical hat catch. It would have been when he was in the red zone that was the trouble, where Eli Manning just chucked it over to Burress in the end zone. But then again it's all the QB right. That's why the Giants drafted Hakeem Nicks in the 1st.. All about the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vicious Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Fact: The offense under Al Saunders took off when Todd Collins was QB because Todd Collins knew every niche of that offense. He had spent 10 years in it. He threw the ball, it lofted, but it was the right timing. That offense was based off of TIMING. TIME something that Jason Campbell has never had with an offense. Oh and how did that Oline look in Seattle? QB is everything after all. Why was our offense so terrible! God damn, Todd Collins, blowing it for us in the playoffs like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 Well... if the offense is clicking, its because of Portis... right? And if its not, its all because of Campbell. Isnt that the story you guys sell? -Well Portis is the best offensive weapon we have... and there is no doubt that there is a correlation between his statistics and our winning %... Look at the amount of games we win when Portis goes for over 100 Look. If you review my post history, I'll be the first to admit that JC has more growing to do. And he does hold the ball too long at times... and he did check down alot. I realize that. But unlike... "your side" shall we say... I realize that some of the things that made Campbell look bad was not all about Campbell.1. He was sacked alot. 2. Even when he was not sacked, he had pressue in his face and/or was getting hit on every pass play. 3. The playcalling was surley predictable in the redzone. In the end, it is what it is... andwhat I see on this board are the words "horrible"... "worst QB ever"... "terrible"... ad nauseum. Its just not that bad. The sky is not falling and the guy played fairly well for what we were. -I know you actually do give Campbell some of the blame.. I was simply pointing out the statistic you chose to use... I think its a total double standard to use some of Campbell statistics that support him and say they are his statistics... and Campbell's statistics that don't support him fall on the team, and are considered team statistics. -Also there are 2 camps in my side... Those that love Colt, and those that believe we are simply wasting a year putting Campbell in as the starting QB this season, because we believe that there is little to no chance of Campbell being resigned... So we are in essence wasting a year... -My camp the latter of the two, understands we have a weak o-line, understands the young talent on the team needs to step up, understands our D needs to create more turnovers... -However all of this isn't going to happen next season... Our o-line wasn't addressed other than dock, and we don't really know what we have in Rhinehart, so that remains a ?... -Our young receivers, while it is comforting that they have been working harder this offseason I still didn't see much to give me hope for the future this year... I keep hearing how all the exp they got last year will help them this season, but I disagree, I unfortunately think Zorn didn't give Thomas and Davis enough on field experience last season to really help them become acclimated in football in the NFL... -Finally our defense was surely improved and our pass rush should be greatly improved with Orakpo/Big Al, but there are still ?'s will Big Al and Hall still play at a high level now that they have been paid? Each player historically has a pretty poor attitude but we will have to wait and see, for now all we can do is hope... Than there is Rogers, what a great corner but is he gonna start turning his great instincts into int's soon? Than there is Landry who went through a pretty bad slump last year, will he become the playmaker we have seen him be in the SEA playoff game.... -What I am getting at is, there are a lot of ?'s about the Skins but Campbell certainly is the largest, and I personally don't see him succeeding with this group... Why not use next year to really evaluate Colt? I know he may not be ready, but he was a 6th rd QB we don't really need to spend too long grooming him... and as we have heard from the Hawaiian skins fans, Colt is much better in game situation... So I want to see what he can do... If nothing, then trade for a vet, and work on drafting Bradford. -Im not saying we will win next year with Colt, I AM saying we should use next season to give Colt an evaluation. No one seems to remember the temper we had around this time last year. New HC/OC, new system, new players... most level headed people were thinking 7-9 at worst, 9-7 at best and if we were lucky we make the playoffs. We overacheived that first 8 games and most people realize that. -Yes we did overachieve the first 8 games, we squeaked away with a few wins in the first half... but the abysmal ending, makes me wonder why so many people have high hopes At least our startingQB never cost us games. -Yes he has in his career, maybe not last season... and a franchise qb (which I feel is necessary to compete year in and out for the trophy) do more than not lose... They win.... I am so tired of this not losing strategy... Lets start playing to Win, and stop playing not to lose, its making me sick to my stomach how easily we give up a lead, and how we cannot put a nail in the coffin (the entire team is responsible for this) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I have a simple question for Campbell's supporters: Is he a franchise QB? And I don't mean is he OUR franchise QB. I mean is he considered as a franchise QB around the league? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 You need someone to throw those TD's to. After the 2nd Giants game, Zorn called the WR's out for running poor routes. If they were still running bad routes after game 15, just think what they were running the rest of the season. The coach of the team made this comment, people. Not posters here on a fan forum. Can't wait to see how the JC bashers slant this one. could you please show me that quote? id like to see exactly what zorn was saying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 I have a simple question for Campbell's supporters: Is he a franchise QB?And I don't mean is he OUR franchise QB. I mean is he considered as a franchise QB around the league? you know the answer to this dude, you dont have to ask it lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BRAVEONAWARPATH Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 you know the answer to this dude, you dont have to ask it lol. I know the answer, you know the answer and more importantly, they know the answer as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mahons21 Posted June 30, 2009 Share Posted June 30, 2009 you know the answer to this dude, you dont have to ask it lol. -I already know the response though... He hasn't been given the opportunity to be a franchise QB... -Because when Brady made a name for himself he had huge all-star receivers like David Patten, David Givens, and Troy Brown... But wait the tallest guy is 6 foot? How did he find them in the end zone? None of them were very good without Brady, I guess they just learned to run routes once he got on the field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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