A Look at the Roster

[SWFLSkins]

Huge holes at QB, WR and RB. Oddly (to some), the strength of the team now seems to be the DL. This team will finish last in its Division.

I think:evilg: that could be your pre-season sig bet thread.

[Gregpeck99]

Hope I'm wrong SWFL ... but I just don't see where the points are gonna come from without more firepower.

[@DCGoldPants]

if the Skins feel its easier to fill the gap at OLB than DE. Then we'll go DE.

However, if a top tackle is there. Then I don't know.

With the needs of this roster. I believe they need to do their best to trade back and pick up another 1st day pick. Downside is......we might blow that pick still.

[Voice_of_Reason]

So it's Campbell fault that the Skins didn't lead the Skins to the playoffs this past year, and you want to use Brunell's final 5 game stretch as a comparison? Really? Did you even look at Brunell's stats the last 5 games in '05?

Week 13 vs. St. Louis: 14/21 for 156 yds and 1 TD

Week 14 vs. Arizona: 18/28 for 122 yds and 3 INT's

Week 15 vs. Dallas: 12/20 for 163 yds and 4 TD's

Week 16 vs. NYG: 7/11 for 112 yds and 2 TD's, 1 INT

Week 17 vs. Philly: 9/25 for 141 yds and 1 TD, 1 INT

Not to mention Portis happened to run for 573 yards and 7 TD's during those last 5 games and the o-line allowed 3 sacks to both Brunell and Ramsey during those last 5 games.

Campbell's last 5 games this past season:

Week 13 vs. NYG: 23/28 for 232 yds and 1 INT

Week 14 vs. Balt: 21/37 for 218 yds and 1 TD, 2 INT's

Week 15 vs. Cincy: 17/28 for 167 yds and 1 TD

Week 16 vs. Philly: 18/33 for 144 yds

Week 17 vs. San Fran: 18/30 for 156 yds and 1 TD

However, during this 5 game span Portis only ran for 281 yards and 2 TD's; also the o-line gave up 10 sacks to Campbell in those 5 games.

Yes the offense was great in '05, but that was not because of the QB, that was because of Portis and the play of the o-line; however, that was 3 years ago. 3 years ago, Jansen could be considered a solid, reliable RT, now 3 years later he wouldn't be on the Skins if his cap hit wasn't astronomical. Also, Portis has had a few injuries since '05 and he doesn't have the breakaway speed he used to possess back when he first joined the Skins.

Yes, Campbell has to improve this year or he'll hit the road to find a new home. However, to say that Campbell is the main reason to say why the Skins offense is struggling compared to the '05 season is a complete joke.

If you look at the '05 season stats for Brunell overall: 3,050 passing yards, 23 TD's, 10 INT's, 57.7 completion %, sacked 27 times, 111 rushing yards, and 6 fumbles.

If you compare that to Campbell's '08 season: 3,245 passing yards, 13 TD's, 6 INT's, 62.3 completion %, sacked 38 times, 258 rushing yards, 1 TD, and 1 fumble.

Campbell's TD to turnover rate was 2:1, while Brunell's was 1.4:1. I would say Campbell is not the only reason the offense is struggling like you suggested. If the FO can get the o-line some help, and if Thomas or Kelly can become that outside #2 WR that this offense needs, then I think this offense will have a chance to be better than the '05 offense with Campbell under center.

woah there, buddy, I NEVER said that JC was the foundation of the problem, look at my sig. A I also didn't list QB as an area of need. You're jumping to conclusions that I wasn't intending.

My intent in bringing up that EVERYBODY is the same, except for the QB, is that it's foolish to think that the same cast of characters who averaged 22 points per game 4 years ago when they were in their prime can do better this year.

I NEVER mentioned QB play at all in my post. That was not the intent, nor a hidden jab. It's just fact that JC is the only starter who wasn't a starter in 2005.

EDIT: I just re-read my post. And I figured how you might have interpreted it the way you did. But that was not the intent. I was trying to point out that 10 of the 11 starters on offense were the same. There was only one difference, so I pointed out the one difference. Probably poor wording on my part, but it was never my intention to get into a JC debate in this thread.

[bobzmuda]

im more concerned about our LDE and LB situation. heyer can make do as the weak link on our oline at RT, hes done ok in spot duty, and a platoon of him and jansen would be ok.

Jansen at tackle is done. Finished. Kaput.

I've been watching the season over again, watching each play 2-3 times to see exactly what happened. Jansen not only couldn't handle the speed rushers around the edge, he was consistently getting bull rushed and pushed back in to the pocket. He was quite solid in the run game, but he got beat at least 3-4 times a game for a sack or heavy pressure.

Everyone assumes Randy Thomas will come back from neck surgery, but I'm not so sure. He looked okay last year. Certainly like he was on the decline. But with the neck surgery, I wonder if he will even play at all.

I'm wondering if they might move Jansen to RG. Let him run block all day, and try to cover up his terrible pass blocking.

But counting on Thomas and Jansen to hold down the right side is a losing bet.

i dont think we fill all these holes in the draft, one of these 3 is gonna have a weak link. id rather us just go with a RT in the draft unless the best LB or DE is there and have fallen way far. we draft a LB/RT/DE, ill be perfectly fine with any of those 3. although its vinny, so DE is out the window lol.

I'm with the draft an OT crew. Jansen is done, and Samuels is getting old and nicked up a lot. Regardless who is at QB, the line must get younger and more talented at the OT spot.

The team managed just fine with fill-in-the-gap LBs & DEs last year.

[skinzfan72]

I'm with the draft an OT crew. Jansen is done, and Samuels is getting old and nicked up a lot. Regardless who is at QB, the line must get younger and more talented at the OT spot.

The team managed just fine with fill-in-the-gap LBs & DEs last year.

I go along with this. With the signing of PD and RW I don't see us drafting a DE until next year. I say go all OL, even if we trade back. Work the dog snot out of them in camp, throw them to the wolves in pre season, then pick the best of the bunch and move on. Then next year fix LB and DE.

[Oldfan]

IMO

Stephon Heyer's quick feet and long arms gives him natural advantages in steering speed rushers wide of the pocket, but he plays too high to handle the bull rushers more prevalent at RT position. Moreover, he's not proficient in run blocking.

He has backup talent, better at LT than at RT, but he has no chance of starting at LT. That leaves the RT by default if he's going to start anywhere.

Don't bury Jansen just yet. Last season, he was coming off major surgery and played with 30% bodyfat in a long, tough preseason. If the Skins don't draft a starter at RT, Jon is still likely to be the best we have and has his best chance of making a comeback -- not all the way back -- but better than he has been in the last couple of seasons.

[bobzmuda]

Don't bury Jansen just yet. Last season, he was coming off major surgery and played with 30% bodyfat in a long, tough preseason. If the Skins don't draft a starter at RT, Jon is still likely to be the best we have and has his best chance of making a comeback -- not all the way back -- but better than he has been in the last couple of seasons.

He better be. He might have been the worst pass-blocking tackle in the league last year. I don't think it's an overstatement to say his pass-blocking was pathetic.

[Skinsfor4]

I go along with this. With the signing of PD and RW I don't see us drafting a DE until next year. I say go all OL, even if we trade back. Work the dog snot out of them in camp, throw them to the wolves in pre season, then pick the best of the bunch and move on. Then next year fix LB and DE.

I like the OL pick in the first,but if Sanchez is there he will be a Skin,and then we fix the OL next year through FA and Draft.I dont see the FO passing on Sanchez especially now that we know what they thnk about JC.:helmet:

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Jansen at tackle is done. Finished. Kaput.

I've been watching the season over again, watching each play 2-3 times to see exactly what happened. Jansen not only couldn't handle the speed rushers around the edge, he was consistently getting bull rushed and pushed back in to the pocket. He was quite solid in the run game, but he got beat at least 3-4 times a game for a sack or heavy pressure.

Everyone assumes Randy Thomas will come back from neck surgery, but I'm not so sure. He looked okay last year. Certainly like he was on the decline. But with the neck surgery, I wonder if he will even play at all.

I'm wondering if they might move Jansen to RG. Let him run block all day, and try to cover up his terrible pass blocking.

But counting on Thomas and Jansen to hold down the right side is a losing bet.

id agree, they are the weak points. we have to assume that rhinehardt is the eventual replacement for thomas, if hes not, its another failed draft pick on vinnys part. but either way, heyer is decent enough to be the weak link. if we draft an RT we have to hope hes beast enough coming in as a rookie that he can just start right away, and we use heyer and jansen for depth (although having 3 RTs is kinda stupid, especially with how much we shell out for jansen, whole'nother story there lol).

and jansen playing RG is not a good idea. see wade, todd.

I'm with the draft an OT crew. Jansen is done, and Samuels is getting old and nicked up a lot. Regardless who is at QB, the line must get younger and more talented at the OT spot.

The team managed just fine with fill-in-the-gap LBs & DEs last year.

washington was still playing LB in a good chunk of the games, and blades was playign spot duty. that wont be the case, as we'll be forced to start blades. his speed worries me.

and DE will be a nightmare. jason taylor sucked for what he was paid, but if his name wasnt JT the expectations wouldnt be as high. counting on daniels and wynn is even dumber than counting on jansen in my opinion. youre talking about injuries playing a key factor for our oline, but you seem to be ignoring the fact that daniels is older than all the other guys mentioned, and hes coming off a brutal injury.

and if our defense fails, were going 5-11 or 6-10, because *bites tongue* our offense is not going to perform much better than it did last year as a whole. im feeling a 2004 year this season, sadly.

[wvtbred]

I like the OL pick in the first,but if Sanchez is there he will be a Skin,and then we fix the OL next year through FA and Draft.I dont see the FO passing on Sanchez especially now that we know what they thnk about JC.:helmet:

I say they do get Sanchez and draft OL in the later rounds. I think we will see some steals concerning OL in the 3rd round and later this year.

[paredskinsfan]

I am interested in seeing what Wilson can do at OLB.

[brlawson]

If we draft Sanchez we may as well let Brennan go. It is pointless to have two developing QB's on the same team. I think Sanchez is overrated personally. Think David Carr, Akili Smith, and Alex Smith.

[Deefense]

If we draft Sanchez we may as well let Brennan go. It is pointless to have two developing QB's on the same team. I think Sanchez is overrated personally. Think David Carr, Akili Smith, and Alex Smith.

I agree its prob pointless. I don't think we should take Sanchez at all. We address our O-line needs first and foremost.

I think Brennan or Sanchez could be another Alex Smith. But theres always that possibility of one of them being another Brady (yea rt:cool:). I say stick with JC one more year and get him better protection. No one is good with mediocre protection.

[Dick Edds]

great thread DBH, I like the way you broke down the roster spots.

I am in the OT crew for a #13 pick ... it is a balance of depth vs. draft value vs. immediate impact in this draft. While I think Heyer is not as bad as everyone thinks (he's still young and can improve his game), I do think Jansen is almost done as a starter and this should be his last year.

Defensive players (especially lineman) don't usually take as long to develop, as a solid OL'man does. The reason I think this, is that the amount of defensive packages and the system itself is no where near as complex as learning a new offense, especially one that is unproven like Zorn's.

Our defensive scheme/system has been in place for awhile now, and we can draft/develop players who we think fit that, and we also have other experienced veterans to help teach and guide the younger players. On the defensive side of the ball athletic ability can often times overcome any mental deficiencies or scheme issues that may arise. It is much more likely that a defensive player can play on game days and learn at the same, while relying on athletic ability to make plays.

OL is completely different and is way more complex. It is just as much mental as it is physical. Now of course we could be forced to start a rookie OL'man should our other OL'man suffer injury, etc. But that is why I think it is important get a starting caliber OL'man NOW ... even if we are lucky health wise and he has to sit and learn our system under the current vets. We need to get whatever OL'man we can integrated in this system ASAP, there is much more to worry about on the offensive side of the ball scheme wise, than on the defensive side of the ball.

While I agree we need some youth at the DE spot, we need an OLB (or two) ... we have had a top 10 defense with the likes of Demetric Evans, Alexander, Blades etc. We desperately need to act NOW on bringing in a top OL prospect, and not a project that we hope will "eventually make it".

All this said, the only defensive player I want with a #13 pick is Orakpo (even though I realize he most likely won't fall that far) ... the other LB'ers would be a reach ... and if we are gonna reach in any way, it needs to be with a top OL prospect. I just donlt see how we could "stick it out" one more year with Heyer, Jansen and Rhinehardt as our depth on the OL. No way in freaking hell we can expect our offense to "get better" ... the offense starts up front and they have to be in unison as one ... the defense can get more creative with the personnel we currently have. We can play to our strengths and hide our weaknesses on the defensive side of the ball, with our current roster and hope to develop some of the younger guys.

Those deficiencies cannot be hidden on the offensive side of the ball ... we HAVE to hold the line of scrimmage or we are doomed regardless of our skill players and QB better "grasping" the offensive system in year 2.

Hail.

[paloffs]

Don't bury Jansen just yet. Last season, he was coming off major surgery and played with 30% bodyfat in a long, tough preseason. If the Skins don't draft a starter at RT, Jon is still likely to be the best we have and has his best chance of making a comeback -- not all the way back -- but better than he has been in the last couple of seasons.

Or Jansen will get injured again. If Jansen is our best RT (which you could argue both cases), we're screwed.

[cuchip703]

Huge holes at QB, WR and RB. Oddly (to some), the strength of the team now seems to be the DL. This team will finish last in its Division.

Really, a 1400 yard rusher is a "huge hole" Wow. Guess that 25 teams in the NFL this year better be looking for RB's in the draft

[Thirtyfive2seven]

It may not be a huge hole at all, but you have to figure with Portis getting up there in age that he needs a younger, faster replacement than Betts. The thing I like about Betts though is that he'll be VERY fresh having not played much. So long as he doesn't fumble I think the skins can go another season without addressing RB. There just aren't enough picks to justify it this season.

[DGREENHULK]

Huge holes at QB, WR and RB. Oddly (to some), the strength of the team now seems to be the DL. This team will finish last in its Division.

It's this kind of thinking that kills me. Nothing against you GP99 but evey other team in our divison has "Huge Holes" NY (WR's) DAL (WR'sand Secondary) PHI (WR's and OL). Point is the Divison is wide open this year.

[DGREENHULK]

I agree its prob pointless. I don't think we should take Sanchez at all. We address our O-line needs first and foremost.

I think Brennan or Sanchez could be another Alex Smith. But theres always that possibility of one of them being another Brady (yea rt:cool:). I say stick with JC one more year and get him better protection. No one is good with mediocre protection.

I agree If we Draft Sanchez Colt is gone. OL is the pick at 13 unless Vinny can trade out and we can pickup a couple 2nds or a 1st and a 2nd. Still OL than DE/LB

[eljeasel]

It's this kind of thinking that kills me. Nothing against you GP99 but evey other team in our divison has "Huge Holes" NY (WR's) DAL (WR'sand Secondary) PHI (WR's and OL). Point is the Divison is wide open this year.

We had the worst record in the NFC East, yet went .500 in the division. I agree dude. In the NFC East, anything can happen.

[Going Commando]

You just drafted entirely by this year's needs. You should never do that in the draft.

Too many people on here need to realize that The draft is for the future and not just to fill your immediate needs.

Maybe you will get some contribution from your 1st rounder, but you can't count on rookies to start or contribute right off.

We already made our bed with our current roster holes. We are going to have to carry them into the season, sign guys in FA, or hope someone already on the roster steps up.

We should mostly just draft BPA according to our board, and only ignore the WR, TE, Safety, Fullback, and possibly DT positions. Draft picks at those positions would be a waste because they likely wouldn't make the roster. Also, please no kicker or punter in the draft, we need to find those positions in FA.

After that, every other position should be fair game for BPA.

[PROSCOUT]

My suggestion has been and continues to be that Alexander needs to be working at moving to center. I do not see Alexander making the roster any longer unless he moves to center, and gain a little more weight. He is short and agile but not really a great fit on a defensive line that is very competitive at tackle.

With Fat Albert, Griff,Monty, and Golston we are set and in addition, Daniels and Wynn can both play tackle in pinch. I think we will probably be looking to add more defensive end help and that should take up Alexanders roster spot.

And on the offensive line, Alexander doesn't really fit. Cannot play tackle, too small for guard, and we are loaded at tight end.

I hope the guy gets a shot at backup Center because Rabach is also light and getting older. Center would be the perfect spot if the coaches really want to keep him.

[darrelgreenie]

Sorry this was long, but I think looking at the roster as a whole is needed to do now. I didn't add special teams, but we will have a P, K and the Red Snapper as well.

QB-Jason Campbell, Todd Collins, Colt Brennan

RB-Clinton Portis, Betts, Cartwright

FB- Mike Sellars

TE- Cooley, Fred Davis, Yoder

WR-Moss, Thomas, Randle El, Kelly, Thrash

LT-Samuels, Heyer, Devin Clark?

LG-Dockery, Rhinehart

C-Rabach, Geisinger,

RG- Randy Thomas, Rhinehart

RT-Heyer, Jansen, Devin Clark?

---------------------------------------------------------------------

FS- Landry, Doughty, Moore

SS- Horton/Doughty, Moore

CB- Hall, Rogers, Smoot, Tryon,

SAM- Blades, Chris Wilson, Thomas

MLB- Fletcher, Khary Campbell, Blades

WILL- McIntosh, Fincher, Blades

RDE-Carter, Wilson, Jackson

LDE Wynn, Daniels, Alexander,

DT-Hayneswoth, Griffin, Monty, Golston, Alexander

Draft target areas:

RG-interior line depth behind Rhinehart (lets go Rhino!)

C-future center(Rabach pending free agency)/ backup G

OT-offensive tackle depth /developmental prospect

WR- younger version of Thrash special teams guy gunner/PR/KR developmental guy

DE:Pass rushing RDE of the future, young LDE

OLB: Depth SAM/WILL, pass rusher

CB: developmental guy, special teams gunner, challenge for dime/nickel back

1st Maualuga, Rey OLB for now then eventuallty takes over at MLB http://www.nfl.com/draft/2009/profil...aluga?id=79852

3rd Caldwell, Antoine C/G great depth and future (hopefully immediate) replacement/upgrade for Rabach

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/...dwell?id=71239

5th Washington, Donald CB early entry that could be coached up, from a big-time program at Ohio State, good size speed for a NFC East corner

can at least contribute on special teams and push J.T. Tryon

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/...ngton?id=80686

6th Reynolds, Garrett future OT insurance policy for Heyer/Jansen

http://www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/...nolds?id=71453

7th (Comp) Navarre, Jeremy a DE that actually fits our system, imo a younger version of our LDE Daniels, stout against the run

http://www.nfl.com/draft/2009/profil...varre?id=89768