Kilmer17 Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Note to the GOP. We get it. The NY Times has a problem. Let it go now and put that chip away. Bring it up when they start bashing the Pres or a GOP politico, but for God's sake let it go for now. Stop making the news the news. It's a great story, but leave it out of the polical realm. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 The Times story is as big a story as there is in this country right now Kilmer. As a former journalist, I can tell you, that story is resonating in every newsroom in the country. It's a massive case of media fraud by a media elite. The stuff coming out now, about how the editors at the Times were intimidating reporters, coloring coverage and were dubbed the Politburo by those working under them is huge, terrible, disturbing news. I don't want this story to go away. I want it to be mentioned every time someone talks of liberal bias in the press. I want it to be overwhelmingly clear that the Times credibility is shot and it must make changes to recover. Again, perhaps as a former journalist I'm more stunned by this open revolt among reporters and the fraud there than others are, but, it is one story I can't get enough of . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 16, 2003 Author Share Posted May 16, 2003 Art, I agree with all of that. I just dont see the need for the GOP pundits to make polical hay with it. Let the other news organizations chew them up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BushSucks Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 I just gave myself a week off from posting. Bye BS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 I guess my problem with it is that they seem to have a problem with it only because it was a liberal news agency. IF it were fox or the Washington times would you care and want it still in the news? I hope so, but for different reasons. I cringe because being mislead by faulty reporting is easy enough when the media outlets are being honest. I hate that the views expressed on boards like this are "I want it to be mentioned every time someone talks of liberal bias in the press." So you think this only happens from the left huh? What about the guy from the New Republic who wrote all of the stories about Vernon Jordan during the Clinton presidency? Those all turned out to be fiction too. I just cringe because many seem to want it to be a political point not a factual problem with our press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
@DCGoldPants Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 I think there are enough vultures out there that the GOP can just stand back and let the other outlets wage war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 gbear...I have no desire to 'gloat' over this...its kind of sad actually that folks feel the need to distort or invent the 'truth' because reality isn't to their liking. But I view it in somewhat the same light as the JFK revelations....its disgusting. I don't say that because JFK was a dem (hell, he'd qualify as a conservative by modern standards)...I say it because the guy was a scumbag, and ALL decent people ought to be able to see it, admit it, and not obfuscate with platitiudes and assertions like 'but he did a great job with the Cuban missile crisis'. Ditto with reporters who LIE, and institutions who gloss over lies all the while holding themselves up as the epitome of truth and courageous reporting. They are disgusting. We should all avoid this kind of double standard. We don't have to take joy in unveiling lack of character, but we shouldn't excuse it because it doesn't mesh with our political interests either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackC Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Originally posted by Kilmer17 Note to the GOP. We get it. The NY Times has a problem. Let it go now and put that chip away. Bring it up when they start bashing the Pres or a GOP politico, but for God's sake let it go for now. Stop making the news the news. It's a great story, but leave it out of the polical realm. If you're asking these board memebers to align with your request for the GOP to shut up, you've come to the wrong place. Of course this stuff happens on both sides, but that doesn't make it right for either. I will join in. GOP shut the f up! Oh I feel better now! Mind if I do it again? Hey Ann Coulter, we know you're a man so shut up! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 I'm with you Tarhog. I hate it. I suspect most at the Times hate it. Having seen the interviews with people at the New Republic, I know they hated it as did all of the media outlets that picked up the story. I just have a problem with those saying let's just use this to discredit anything we don't agree with. Yes, I realise that's a slight exageration of the above quotes. It just seems to me that the real problem is being ignored by those who wish to score political points. They're free to score points: it's our system. It's just that in doing so, they ignore that we actually have a problem verifying our news. It's been a real problem for a while now. I'm not sure what the answer is. Given that the news is always out to have the news before the competition, there will always be deadlines. How does one avoid the temptation to not check every story as well as it should be? The only thing I can come up with is more legal recourse or punishment for shoddy reporting. It shouldn't be a requirement that the reporting be slanderous to be punishable. Not working in the field though, I don't know what stricter rules would do to our reporting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Gbear, Are you actually equating the New Republic and the New York Times? If so, are you embarrassed to do so? If this were to have happened at the Washington Times or the Fox News Channel, you're damn right I'd want it covered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 16, 2003 Author Share Posted May 16, 2003 Im sorry I didnt click on fast enough to see the rope with which FSF hung himself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Originally posted by BushSucks I just gave myself a week off from posting. Bye BS. Thank you Art. Thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gbear Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Do you not remember all of the newspapers, conservative and liberal alike reporting on Vernan Jordan hitting on his employee and sexual harrassment? It was a big hubbub during the last Clinton presidency at the time where everybody in the conservative press wanted to paint the entire Clinton presidency. The NEw Republic published an article about Vernan Jordan saying he was a good close friiend of Clinton and about how he was sexually harassing his employees, many of whom got their job through political connections with Clinton (that's from memory). The story was picked up in all of the major news outlets at the time. Funny thing...the guy writing it made it up. That didn't stop the press from printing. It didn't stop conservatives bashing the morraly corrupt and using this as just another example of the corrupt Clinton. Nevermind that none of it turned out to be true.:doh: My point is that there is a tendency to print what people want to believe. You seem to think that only happens to the left and thus anything to the left of your beliefs should be doubted. I doubt it's only the left. What I want to know is what you thik should be done about it? How many times did Fox say "we've found the WMD?" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phanatic Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Originally posted by JackC If you're asking these board memebers to align with your request for the GOP to shut up, you've come to the wrong place. Of course this stuff happens on both sides, but that doesn't make it right for either. I will join in. GOP shut the f up! Oh I feel better now! Mind if I do it again? Hey Ann Coulter, we know you're a man so shut up! So if Ann is a man, what does that make the 2008 Democratic party choice for president? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
just skins baby Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 I will agree with ASF on a point. Most people in this country will believe whatever they read in a newspaper or see on TV. They will not take the time to investigate. With that said, anytime a news media outlet will slant coverage or out and out lie is dishonorable. Also, I think, just my opinion now, if the news media came out and said "The economy is booming, we are doing great, orders are up, unemployment is down" and if it was hammered home enough, people would blindly follow along with whatever was said and start buying more like they did in the 90's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tarhog Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Just Skins, The problem with what ASF is saying is that this is EXACTLY what he's done over and over recently. Reading it in Salon.com or the Wall Street Journal for that matter doesn't make it true. Reading it in multiple news sources doesn't make it true. I've said over and over that we vastly overestimate the accuracy and 'truth' available related to ANY topic from media sources (mainstream or not). ASF is just arguing we aren't reading the 'right' sources and that even if we did, our minds aren't 'open' enough to grasp the truth. You'll never glean the full truth about any subject by reading articles or surfing the web. Your best chance is to get involved in real world events and draw your own conclusions from experience when possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JackC Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Originally posted by phanatic So if Ann is a man, what does that make the 2008 Democratic party choice for president? I see you have a secret crush on the junior Senator from New York. Good luck with that! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Before you decide this rogue reporter is an indictment of the “liberal media”, you might consider doing two things: 1. Find some evidence that this is something other than a grievous lack of oversight by the NYT, and 2. Make sure your own house is bulletproof. Regarding the first, unless there’s a plausible claim that the Times management and editorial staff were knowingly complicit in Blair’s deceptions, I don’t see much credibility in presenting this as a liberal bias issue. If there is such evidence then other heads will surely roll – they might anyway in the fallout, but anyone involved with deliberate deception should be gone yesterday. I absolutely agree that they must make changes to guard against this kind of stuff. But I also believe every newsroom in the country silently whispered, “There but for the grace of God go I”. On the second, I’ll remind you of the case of John R. Lott, the conservative author of “More Guns, Less Crime” and the source of GOP claims that thousands of Florida Republicans stayed home in the last Presidential election after the state was called for Gore. I did a search on the Washington Times. Couldn't tell whether he is a contributor or simply oft quoted in the Times but his name got quite a few hits. When Lott’s research on the pro-gun-rights book was called into question, he was unable to back up some of his claims, blaming a computer crash for eating up his research. Lott also admits creating false online IDs to invent support for his work. He claims he only did this because using his own ID resulted in threats, and that critics are simply liberals out to get him. But in fact he’s gone as far as to create fictitious favorable reviews on Amazon.com for his own book. And here’s a sample of his complete fabrications the liberals are nitpicking: I had him for a PhD level empirical methods class when he taught at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania back in the early 1990s, well before he gained national attention, and I have to say that he was the best professor that I ever had. You wouldn't know that he was a 'right-wing' ideologue from the class. . . . There were a group of us students who would try to take any class that he taught. Lott finally had to tell us that it was best for us to try and take classes from other professors more to be exposed to other ways of teaching graduate material. You'd think these frauds would be ashamed, but they don't embarrass easily. And they seem to occur on both sides of the fence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 16, 2003 Author Share Posted May 16, 2003 That was my point. It's not a political issue. The GOP is making themselves look bad by pursuing it as one. It does seem though that the Editors azt the Times were made aware of his errors over a year ago in numerous emails and memos but chose to ignore them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Art Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Jimbo, It's a liberal bias issue for many reasons. First, you allowed an underqualified reporter to cover NATIONAL news at the New York Times at the age of 27, in favor of many more qualified, more experienced, better writers. Why? Because he's black. Raines himself has admitted the rules were changed to suit Blair because of his color. “Our paper has a commitment to diversity and by all accounts he appeared to be a promising young minority reporter. I believe in aggressively providing hiring and career opportunities for minorities….Does that mean I personally favored Jayson? Not consciously. But you have a right to ask if I, as a white man from Alabama, with those convictions, gave him one chance too many by not stopping his appointment to the sniper team. When I look into my heart for the truth of that, the answer is yes.” Political correctness and created diversity is a central theme of the bias the right discusses. Blair was in trouble as a metropolitan reporter, even being told his job was in jeapordy for problematic reporting BEFORE Raines rescued him, his star of diversity, and sullied the Times and the good reporters there through his agenda. Further, the Times reporters themselves are charging that the editors, led by Raines, are coloring the news with their assignments and how they interpret stories. A good editor should check the facts, and leave the content alone. Raines is not a good editor. The Times has long been a poster child for what's wrong with the liberal agenda in the press. What's wrong when you allow your editorial staff to color your news headlines. Blair and Raines are just new examples of the problem with allowing an agenda other than merit and truth to be your driving goal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Art, are you familiar with the name Richard Delgaudio? He’s a nationally known conservative activist and fundraiser living in Northern Virginia who’s written books critical of Carter’s dealings with Panama and Clinton’s dealings with China. His brother Eugene is a county supervisor in the Washington area. (One of Eugene’s fundraising letters decrying gay rights warned of two gay men “skipping hand in hand down to the adoption center to pick out their little boy”. I kid you not). Richard was convicted of child porn charges in Baltimore about a month ago. He trolled parks in poor neighborhoods, paying teen and preteen girls to pose for photo shoots. He was caught red-handed with a photo album of literally dozens of undressed preteen girls. His sentence was relatively mild because his lawyer, Bruce Blair, managed to get the book of photos thrown out as illegally seized evidence. But he did get convicted for the two girls the cops located. As you might expect, this was reported in the Metro section of the Baltimore and Washington papers. Well, not all of them. The Washington Times spoke not one word about the incident, not in local news and not even in their little political roundup blurbs. Seems a little odd, but maybe they were napping that day. Oh, but the sharpie lawyer, Bruce Blair? Frequent contributor to the Times, with commentary regularly published. Not a snowball’s chance this went unnoticed, but it did go unreported. As you were saying, there’s a severe problem with “allowing an agenda other than merit and truth to be your driving goal”. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilmer17 Posted May 16, 2003 Author Share Posted May 16, 2003 I have more problem with falsifying news than with not covering some aspect of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Well, so do I. If I see that the NYT management deliberately allowed the false reports to be published I will agree 100% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Evil Genius Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Here was that article on Delgaudio I posted a few weeks back.... Fund-raiser for GOP pleads guilty in case of child pornography Delgaudio took pictures of a 16-year-old girl -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- By Allison Klein Sun Staff Originally published April 24, 2003 A prominent Republican fund-raiser who once said former President Bill Clinton was "a lawbreaker and a terrible example to our nation's young people" pleaded guilty yesterday in Baltimore Circuit Court to production of child pornography. Richard Anthony Delgaudio, who was sentenced to two years' probation before judgment, admitted to taking lewd photographs of a 16-year-old girl he met in East Baltimore's Patterson Park in 2001. In some of the photos, he was engaged in sex with her, court records show. Delgaudio, 50, of Burke, Va., is a frequent talk-radio guest and national figure in conservative politics. He is president of the Legal Affairs Council, a group that helped pay the legal bills of former Reagan administration officials Oliver L. North and Caspar W. Weinberger after they were charged in connection with the Iran-contra affair. In his pornography case, there was additional evidence that Delgaudio took erotic images of at least one other, younger teen-ager, but that evidence was not admissible in court because police improperly stopped and searched Delgaudio, a judge ruled. Largely because of that, prosecutor Adam C. Rosenberg offered Delgaudio a plea agreement, rather than taking the case to a jury. "This is a satisfying outcome because it ends a lot of legal issues," Rosenberg said. In yesterday's ruling, Judge John M. Glynn ordered Delgaudio to stay away from Patterson Park and the neighboring Butchers Hill area. The judge also publicly acknowledged Delgaudio's humiliation. "Mr. Delgaudio has been very active in the state of Virginia and around the country. He was a respected member of the community," Glynn said. "This type of thing is a mortifying experience." Delgaudio thanked the judge for his "good work." He is not able to appeal because of the conditions of the plea agreement. After the hearing, Delgaudio - who is also an author of political books - refused to comment about his case. In a letter to the judge, Delgaudio's attorneys - Bruce Fein and Howard L. Cardin - wrote that he was remorseful and did not know the girls were underage. "He acknowledges the acute moral shortcomings of his conduct, and he will continue intense self-examination and professional and spiritual counseling," the lawyers wrote in the letter, dated yesterday. Cardin also said he did not want to speak about the case after yesterday's hearing but described his client as "brilliant and eloquent." Delgaudio, who has no prior record, was arrested in November 2001 with a book of obscene photographs he had taken of 15- and 16-year-old girls, according to court documents. The teen-agers went with him on several occasions to a hotel on Pulaski Highway, where they had sex and he paid them to pose in erotic positions for his camera, records show. The girls told Delgaudio their ages, according to police. As part of his restitution to the community, his attorney said Delgaudio would contribute $5,000 to "young mothers who are in distress and in need." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimboDaMan Posted May 16, 2003 Share Posted May 16, 2003 Yes, that's it. Bruce Fein is the guy's name, my mind is quiclky draining away. A couple other details don't match what I read - like many of the girls in the book were unidentified but appeared younger - but the gist is there. Didn't see your original post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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