Mark Maske: Portis Says He and Zorn Are 'Together'

[#98QBKiller]

How is Zorn the idiot?

Look if your OL can't get a 1 yard push against the Cinncinatti Bengals then you have BIGGER issues then who is getting the football. Mike Sellers has proven over the years that in his limited carries he can move a pile.

Unfortunatley, our OL during that play got beat. Plain and simple. Would CP of gotten a touchdown when our OL was simply getting stood up? I highly doubt it.

People are so quick to question playcalling once something doesn't work. I myself questioned that exact same call (well personel really) when the play went down, but looking back it I realized that our OL got no push what so ever on both of those goal line calls. Remember football is a team game, sounds cliche but it's the damn truth

Some of you are so quick to put the blame on just one guy. Hell, I can still remember Pete Kendell getting beat on that play against the Giants 2 years ago. I don't care if freak Walter Peyton is carrying the rock (god rest his soul) if you don't execute the blocking then of course the play call looks bad

Did the OL fumble the ball?

*Edit: BTW, I wasn't questioning the playcalling I was questioning the personnel.

[Rhodus333]

There's no need to harp over it and have conversations over where we went wrong or how it happened. Myself, I'm just content, getting myself ready, well-rested and being prepared for another year."

Thats great portis. Go prepare for next year. By not figuring out what you did wrong.

Isn't there that quote about insanity being defined as doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results?

[SMOSS89]

Fact is, there is no reason for this conflict. None. There should not be. I know these are two men of pride, and it happens in football, and has happened on teams with winning records (although more privately). However, this is just dumb. Portis wants to be on the field. Zorn wants to show he's the man by not putting in CP in key situation and thus lose the game. Dan Snyder and CP are all buddy buddy so it helps CP's cause, whoop di doo. This never was a problem the first 4 years under Gibbs, yet it's a problem now. Great. Everyone loses.

This is a stupid stupid "conflict" that should not exist and only one man can fix it: Snyder. It's not that hard. You say "CP, I pay both of y'all to win, period. Respect your head coach". And then "Zorn, don't abuse your power and thus compromising ball games by having our best player on the sidelines when we need him most". Shut the **** up everyone.

[Jofizz]

If we can pull off a decent trade getting him out of here and pickup Sproles I'd be the happiest guy on here.

:doh:

[ntotoro]

Look if your OL can't get a 1 yard push against the Cinncinatti Bengals then you have BIGGER issues then who is getting the football. Mike Sellers has proven over the years that in his limited carries he can move a pile.

When did he do this... ? I must have missed it.

Good lead blocker, sure. Good for the occasional highlight clip where he levels someone, sure. Able to move a pile or rush well? I've never seen it, as much as a few people like to throw around the terms "monster" and "beast" when it comes to Sellers.

[Hazel-Ra]

I know there is an anti Campbell contingent on this board, an anti-Portis contingent, and a unified front against our cousin Vinnie. However it boggles me that not one person has put any of the blame at the feet (or leg as it were) at Shawn Suissam. I put the Rams loss on HIM...2 missed FG's in that game and at least one miss in every game therafter until the last one or two.

How many games when we were at least hanging around did we have any gained momentum rubbed out by his mediocrity. Why wasn't he cut? Am i out of line when I say the wrong Shaun got shot...only venting...but barely.

[Sweet Sassy Molassy]

I know there is an anti Campbell contingent on this board, an anti-Portis contingent, and a unified front against our cousin Vinnie. However it boggles me that not one person has put any of the blame at the feet (or leg as it were) at Shawn Suissam. I put the Rams loss on HIM...2 missed FG's in that game and at least one miss in every game therafter until the last one or two.

How many games when we were at least hanging around did we have any gained momentum rubbed out by his mediocrity. Why wasn't he cut? Am i out of line when I say the wrong Shaun got shot...only venting...but barely.

Yeah man, you're way out of line. Wishing that anyone had gotten shot is a poor reflection on your character.

[Hazel-Ra]

then I apologise, still why is that clown still on the roster.

[Taylor 36]

How is Zorn the idiot?

Look if your OL can't get a 1 yard push against the Cinncinatti Bengals then you have BIGGER issues then who is getting the football. Mike Sellers has proven over the years that in his limited carries he can move a pile.

Unfortunatley, our OL during that play got beat. Plain and simple. Would CP of gotten a touchdown when our OL was simply getting stood up? I highly doubt it.

People are so quick to question playcalling once something doesn't work. I myself questioned that exact same call (well personel really) when the play went down, but looking back it I realized that our OL got no push what so ever on both of those goal line calls. Remember football is a team game, sounds cliche but it's the damn truth

Some of you are so quick to put the blame on just one guy. Hell, I can still remember Pete Kendell getting beat on that play against the Giants 2 years ago. I don't care if freak Walter Peyton is carrying the rock (god rest his soul) if you don't execute the blocking then of course the play call looks bad

Very true. That being said, I find it ironic that Portis called out his OL at the beginning of the season but didn't give them any credit the first half when he was having great games. That right there is the problem: Portis doesn't think about the team, just himself.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

:doh:

What is :doh: about that?

Get some picks for Portis and have a rushing attack of Sproles and Betts? That doesn't sound like a bad idea to me..

So, do you have any real input why that's a bad idea, or can you only manage to click on a smiley?

[buzz1522]

I was listening to the radio yesterday and they had a guy on (cant remember the name but he frequently reports on the Skins) he told a story of how during a practice last year, Zorn yelled at CP for something...and by the end of the day Zorn got a call from Snyder basically telling him he couldnt do that type of thing...Im sure thats been posted here before but I had not heard about until yesterday...I dont know how they can be on the same page when the coach isnt allowed to run his own practice much less the team...JMHO.

[cmorina69]

Riggins = a man.

Portis = your typical punk loudmouth showboater. he's not fit to carry Riggo's jock, regardless of how many yards he racked up. I can only imagine those who are slating JR over CP are fans too young to have seen the "good old days".

Blah blah blah.

CP=The man

End of story.

[mcarey032]

riggo's jealousy and dislike for portis is painfully transparent... when portis was running wild in the first half of the season, he was saying portis wasn't doing anything special, just running through big holes... then in the second half of the season, he continually lambasted portis for slacking off and being an average back at best...

riggo is one of those older players that just can not step aside and let anyone else have the praise he once did... I had to listen to him just about every day on sirius radio (was on at the place I worked) and if he wasn't hating on portis, he was ranting how the steelers and ravens were not physical teams (by his standards, back in the day that was just called football, not physical football) and the hits we are seeing from both teams were nothing special... he also can't clear his f'ing throat before he filibusters for 30 jealous minutes... he's the typical, boring "back in my day, I had to walk 2 hours to school in the snow uphill... both ways!!"

all that said, I can't stand either him or portis and would love to get a true team player carrying the rock for us, not some attention starved, infant who simply can not separate his need to be in the spotlight over the big picture: the team...

I agree that there is something there with Riggins. I know that he really dislikes Portis. I don't know if it is truly jealousy or what, but what is true is that and has been stated on this board before, is that Riggins routinely fell asleep in meetings and had missed some practices before too with unexcused absences. Riggins is one of my favorite players of all time, but there is no reason for him to go after Portis for some of the reasons that he states when he was doing some of those very same things.

[Reaganaut]

I agree that there is something there with Riggins. I know that he really dislikes Portis. I don't know if it is truly jealousy or what, but what is true is that and has been stated on this board before, is that Riggins routinely fell asleep in meetings and had missed some practices before too with unexcused absences. Riggins is one of my favorite players of all time, but there is no reason for him to go after Portis for some of the reasons that he states when he was doing some of those very same things.

Wow... People going after Riggo because he's talking truth. Riggo could bury Portis completely hung over with no sleep. Hall of Fame. Portis won't even sniff anyone's jock strap from the HOF. I LOVE Portis, he's my main man. I loved him in college. But Riggins has every right to go after Portis who has been going after the offensive line and his head coach. Riggins NEVER did that. He was a drunken fool who loved to play football. Portis is a guy who loves to play football, but this organization is so bamboozled that he can't get right. No player can get right here.

[Hiro]

What is :doh: about that?

Get some picks for Portis and have a rushing attack of Sproles and Betts? That doesn't sound like a bad idea to me..

So, do you have any real input why that's a bad idea, or can you only manage to click on a smiley?

You do realize that it'd be impossible for us to trade Portis right? For one, the cap hit would be HUGE and would pretty much cripple us. Second, no one is going to trade for a guy like Portis who has a tendency to get banged up because of his running style and because of his large salary.

In alot of ways to how LT is more valuable to San Diego than anyone else, Portis is alot more valuable to us than he is to anyone else. He's a proven running back who is a threat in all facets of the game (rushing, receiving, throwing, blocking) who is probably one of the most physical backs in the game today. You get rid of Portis and try to replace him with a Sproles/Betts combination? Yes you retain some explosiveness in the running game and receiving game. But you lose the punishing running style that Portis has to offer, and you lose his blocking abilities.

Keep in mind also the kind of production Portis has brought us with an aging offensive line and a stagnant passing game. If you take out the debacle that was the 2006 season, he's consistently put up 1200+ yards his entire time he's been here. You really think Betts could replicate that production? I love having Ladell here as a role player and a guy who can give Portis a break, but he's not a threat. He's a pedestrian runningback who is comparable to Chester Taylor. He'll run the ball and rack up some yardage and catch the ball occasionally, but he has no other major dimensions to him.

Look, I'm not condoning Portis's behavior or agreeing that he made the right call by lashing out at Zorn over the radio. But no one can deny how much better he makes our team and no one can question his desire to win or how hard he works on the field. EVERY team in the league has their primadonnas, it's just bound to happen because there are so many in professional sports. But shipping Portis out by some means and replacing him with a guy like Sproles doesn't make our team better. In alot of ways, one could argue that's a downgrade.

[McD5]

who is probably one of the most physical backs in the game today. You get rid of Portis and try to replace him with a Sproles/Betts combination? Yes you retain some explosiveness in the running game and receiving game. But you lose the punishing running style that Portis has to offer.

You make some valid points. But physical? And punishing?

Portis is neither.

Brandon Jacobs is punishing. Riggins here was punishing. Betts is punishing. Portis is certainly not punishing.

Jacobs trucks people. He injures tacklers, and beats down defenses.

Portis doesn't do that.

He is a good runner, and a very good blocker. But there isn't a defensive player in the league who thinks to himself, "Oh God, here comes Portis, he is going to run over me."

[Hiro]

You make some valid points. But physical? And punishing?

Portis is neither.

Brandon Jacobs is punishing. Riggins here was punishing. Betts is punishing. Portis is certainly not punishing.

Jacobs trucks people. He injures tacklers, and beats down defenses.

Portis doesn't do that.

He is a good runner, and a very good blocker. But there isn't a defensive player in the league who thinks to himself, "Oh God, here comes Portis, he is going to run over me."

Brandon Jacobs is an exception Mc. The guy is friggin 6-4, 265 pounds which makes him the most intimidating running back in the game. But when I say physical, I mean in how hard Portis runs and how he has a tendency to run with reckless abandon (which is one explanation as to why he is always so banged up at the end of the season). Plus, you don't see most running backs punishing guys when they DON'T have the ball the way Portis does. That's another thing we lose in attempting to replace him with a Betts/Sproles combination.

[McD5]

Brandon Jacobs is an exception Mc. The guy is friggin 6-4, 265 pounds which makes him the most intimidating running back in the game. But when I say physical, I mean in how hard Portis runs and how he has a tendency to run with reckless abandon (which is one explanation as to why he is always so banged up at the end of the season). Plus, you don't see most running backs punishing guys when they DON'T have the ball the way Portis does. That's another thing we lose in attempting to replace him with a Betts/Sproles combination.

He is a great blocker, no doubt about that. And while it is the single least important thing that a running back does, out of running/receiving/blocking, it is certainly appreciated with our weak offensive line in pass blocking.

It is sort of like saying Michael Vick was a great runner. That is great, but that isn't what you want out of your qb.

Portis is a great blocker.....but we want him to be an offensive weapon, not blocking people.

That isn't his fault though....that is on the line and the system.

When I think of punishing.....I think of defenses that are simply beaten down by the fourth quarter. Defenses that give up. Portis doesn't do that to teams.

Betts may be less shifty and agile, but he beats tacklers. He runs right into them. He runs over them. He steps on their legs and arms when tackled.

That type of running style takes its toll on a D. Maybe after getting stepped on by Betts, the next play, the safety or linebacker can't keep up with our slot receiver. That can pay big dividends if we have some smart play calling.

Like the blocking of Portis, the trampling of tacklers by a Brandon Jacobs, and to a lesser extent, Betts, doesn't show up in the stat sheet--but it is big.

Betts in the first half, then Sproles in the second half would be a thing of pure beauty imho.

[Hiro]

He is a great blocker, no doubt about that. And while it is the single least important thing that a running back does, out of running/receiving/blocking, it is certainly appreciated with our weak offensive line in pass blocking.

It is sort of like saying Michael Vick was a great runner. That is great, but that isn't what you want out of your qb.

Portis is a great blocker.....but we want him to be an offensive weapon, not blocking people.

That isn't his fault though....that is on the line and the system.

When I think of punishing.....I think of defenses that are simply beaten down by the fourth quarter. Defenses that give up. Portis doesn't do that to teams.

Betts may be less shifty and agile, but he beats tacklers. He runs right into them. He runs over them. He steps on their legs and arms when tackled.

That type of running style takes its toll on a D. Maybe after getting stepped on by Betts, the next play, the safety or linebacker can't keep up with our slot receiver. That can pay big dividends if we have some smart play calling.

Like the blocking of Portis, the trampling of tacklers by a Brandon Jacobs, and to a lesser extent, Betts, doesn't show up in the stat sheet--but it is big.

Betts in the first half, then Sproles in the second half would be a thing of pure beauty imho.

I can see your point there in the first part of the statement. But you don't believe that Portis can be an offensive weapon already if we were to have a better offensive line? Because with our line in its current condition, I cannot imagine Betts or Sproles having anymore success than Clinton has had.

[lesto17]

Portis is a great blocker.....but we want him to be an offensive weapon, not blocking people.

You honestly don't consider CP an offensive weapon? Even with an aging o-line he managed to assert himself as one of the top backs in the league, and that certainly was not due to his blocking ability. The fact that he is a great blocker is just a bonus.

And to whoever said that CP didn't give his o-line any credit when he was having success...that just isn't true. There were several interviews in which he gave them credit and joked about how he should tell them off more often if it makes them play like that.

As far as the whole Snyder/Zorn/CP relationship goes, there isn't really anything that can be said. None of us have any idea what really has or has not been said or done behind closed doors. The most we can do is to either choose to take the info we are given at face value and accept it, or not....and then argue about it.

[Rdskn4Lyf21]

In alot of ways to how LT is more valuable to San Diego than anyone else, Portis is alot more valuable to us than he is to anyone else. He's a proven running back who is a threat in all facets of the game (rushing, receiving, throwing, blocking) who is probably one of the most physical backs in the game today. You get rid of Portis and try to replace him with a Sproles/Betts combination? Yes you retain some explosiveness in the running game and receiving game. But you lose the punishing running style that Portis has to offer, and you lose his blocking abilities.

What I'm looking at is the teams that are having the most success either have a running back by committee situation or are splitting carries more than the 85% that Portis had between himself and Betts (342 v. 61). Maybe we need to mix Betts in there more with Portis or maybe we need to try to work a trade and pick someone up that will give this offense a little more of a boost.

Check out the teams that made it deep into the playoffs and how their running games broke down. The teams with the "punishing" back that gets more than 80% of the team's carries aren't having a huge success.

Arizona:

Hightower - 143

James - 133

Arrington - 31

Pittsburgh: (I know injuries helped the split)

Parker - 210

Moore - 140

Russell - 28

Baltimore:

McClain - 232

McGahee - 170

Rice - 107

Philadelphia:

Westbrook - 233

Buckhalter - 76

Eckel - 24

Tennessee:

Johnson - 251

White - 200

San Diego:

Tomlinson - 292

Sproles - 61

Carolina:

Williams - 273

Stewart - 184

New York Giants:

Jacobs - 219

Ward - 182

Bradshaw - 67

These numbers are for the top 8 teams in the league this year. The only one we come close to resembling in the running game is San Diego. Even then Tomlinson got 83% of the carries between himself and Sproles and San Diego's passing game was much more effective than ours.

I'd only call Jacobs a "punishing back" from this group of teams. Teams just aren't winning when they put the load on one back. I'd rather have two, less punishing, more explosive back than the one back carrying the load.

Just my :2cents:

[More Complete]

I was listening to the radio yesterday and they had a guy on (cant remember the name but he frequently reports on the Skins) he told a story of how during a practice last year, Zorn yelled at CP for something...and by the end of the day Zorn got a call from Snyder basically telling him he couldnt do that type of thing...Im sure thats been posted here before but I had not heard about until yesterday...I dont know how they can be on the same page when the coach isnt allowed to run his own practice much less the team...JMHO.

If this is true it is a very very bad thing. :mad:

[WinSkins]

Riggins = a man.

Portis = your typical punk loudmouth showboater. he's not fit to carry Riggo's jock, regardless of how many yards he racked up. I can only imagine those who are slating JR over CP are fans too young to have seen the "good old days".

Couldn't disagree more with your perception.

I'm an old time Skins fan who wasn't sure about Riggo when he came over from the Jets, because I was used to Bobby Mitchell and Larry Brown style running backs.

Riggins and Portis have a great deal more in common than they do differences. Both are proud warriors who play football the old fashioned way, hard nosed and all out. Both want to feel appreciated as elite at their position and as leaders, respected by teammates and foes. Both have that borderline insanity personna that makes them unpredictable and fascinating.

I have great regard and respect for John Riggins, but I think he may not be applying the same standards to Clinton Portis's behavior as he applied to himself when he was a player. Part of his perspective is quite understandable...he is older, and perhaps a bit wiser, now than when he was an active player (although the older I get the more I question this supposed older/wiser connection) so he views player behavior on and off the field through a different prism.

Kind of reminds me of how I sometimes get frustrated when my children (now all grown up of course) mirror behaviors of mine that I wish they hadn't learned from me. Not sure if I am more frustrated that they behave that way or because I realized they learned it from me.

Clinton Portis has been a great Redskin and has earned the right to be considered among our greatest players. John Riggins was also one of our greatest Redskins. There's no need to understate one's contributions and talents in order to celebrate the other's. :point2sky

[REDSKINZ-RIDEORDIE]

I wonder if Portis will ever give Riggo a tongue lashing like he did to B-Mitch?

[elkabong82]

What I'm looking at is the teams that are having the most success either have a running back by committee situation or are splitting carries more than the 85% that Portis had between himself and Betts (342 v. 61). Maybe we need to mix Betts in there more with Portis or maybe we need to try to work a trade and pick someone up that will give this offense a little more of a boost.

Check out the teams that made it deep into the playoffs and how their running games broke down. The teams with the "punishing" back that gets more than 80% of the team's carries aren't having a huge success.

Pittsburgh: (I know injuries helped the split)

Parker - 210

Moore - 140

Russell - 28

You didn't give any injury credit to the Skins though. CP def. gets the bulk of the carries, but Betts was out for a little while with an injury (it's why we brought in Alexander). Our team you only looked at 2 backs, the other teams you looked at all contributing backs. I def. agree we need a change of pace back to compliment Portis, and IMO Betts isn't that guy. However, the stats should look at all the touches each back had for each team, and the percentage for the main back vs. the back-ups should then be assessed, your stats, while good, are skewed.