bulldog Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I see long posts on ES about the quarterback situation, statistics of why Campbell should or should not be starting, the status of Colt Brennan or Todd Collins as a potential starter. Zorn is not going to entertain starting 2009 with another quarterback. Why? My belief is that one of the reasons he was hired to be the HC was his presentation to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato that he could indeed work with Jason so that the Redskins heavy investment in #17 would bear fruit. Now, Jason Campbell DID improve in 2008 from what we saw in 2006 and in 2007. His anticipation of the rush was better, he held onto the ball when hit and didn't turn it over, he threw far fewer balls into coverage for potential INTs, etc. His footwork was better. So, there were positives. The trouble comes in when you look at the 27 year old quarterback and project where his upside will be. Is he a guy who is going to develop a more fluid and precise throwing motion and work off a set rhythm in getting the ball in the hands of receivers at the crest of their breaks? Or is Jason a quarterback who has made most of the improvements you are going to see technically so that in the WCO he is always going to look a little bit like a duck out of water? The answer may be A or B. More like B in my opinion now. But Jim Zorn was not hired to come up with Answer B and feed that back to Snyder and Cerrato. He was hired to make Scenario A come to pass for the Redskins and Jason Campbell. Whereas a Bill Cowher may turn down a job with the Jets because he didn't want to coach a 40 year old Brett Favre, Zorn has to make this marriage work IMO to keep his job. If I am correct in this, it is counterproductive. The Redskins should encourage competition at the quarterback position. The team should look to bring in a veteran with WCO experience to ease the transition here to this offense. It would help Zorn, Jason but the rest of the offense (including the rookie receivers) in the offseason. That is the only way the team is going to improve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 100% agree. I think when JC is done, Zorn is done too. I also want to know where Zorn's name came up in the discussion as a OC? Was it Fassel who brought him up? Why was this urge to fly to seattle to interview him? Didn't we also interview a Qb coach from San Diego? The end result will be that neither JC or zorn lasts because very few situations have been successful in this way Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 two teams hired OCs before they had head coaches, Washington and Dallas. How are these clubs doing now? Sitting home for the postseason. Jones and Snyder don't run efficient organizations and their intuition is often incorrect. you can see personnel-wise the moves that Jerry has made since Bill left and how they have weakened the team chemistry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
21DIEHARDSKINSFAN21 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 i agreee with everything except when jc is done so is zorn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
modazfuk Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Yep, Bulldog, you're absolutely spot-on IMO. It's pretty simple. If Plan A works (sooner rather than later), Zorn stays and Campbell gets his contract extension. If Plan A goes down in flames, they'll both be gone after next season IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GenMgr Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Yep, Bulldog, you're absolutely spot-on IMO.It's pretty simple. If Plan A works (sooner rather than later), Zorn stays and Campbell gets his contract extension. If Plan A goes down in flames, they'll both be gone after next season IMO. Cerrato may be wedded to both..even more heavily!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hamilbone13 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Let Zorn ride the Campbell train all the way to his firing! The way he came out and stated that there would be no competition this Spring just shows how narrow minded he is. I would love to see a guy like Parcells (balls) who truely puts the best player on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recent Vintage Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I think if Campbell crashes and burns fast enough, and gets benched and Brennan is like Matt Ryan good, then Zorn will be able to stay. So Zorn does have a bail out, and if this whole, "Colt succeeds in the NFL thing" (not saying it will, I just believe it's possible) then both Zorn and Vinny are safe should we make the playoffs. If we don't, then I think one of them might be shown the door, although, it'd be hard to do either if Brennan shows promise and it was Vinny that drafted him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 Zorn is in trouble here IMO. This team has enough problems that even if Parcells or Cowher was brought in TOMORROW, we are probably looking at a 2-3 year rebuild in which 75% of this roster is outta here :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWinzit Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Interesting theories that would explain a part of why Zorn's interview captivated Snyder's attention. We should have a good feel for both of their Redskin futures by the halfway point of next years season. I certainly hope by that point if Campbell shows no improvement and the team is preforming poorly Zorn will make moves to attempt to save his job as well as the teams season. Your comparison to Dan and Jerry is scary. I am glad Dan no longer meddles in the daily team activity like Jerry but I can't trust him until the day he fires or at least demotes Vinny the rat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWinzit Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Zorn is in trouble here IMO.This team has enough problems that even if Parcells or Cowher was brought in TOMORROW, we are probably looking at a 2-3 year rebuild in which 75% of this roster is outta here :doh: Indeed, the change over to their 3-4 D alone would mean the ousting of most of our current defensive personnel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bulldog Posted January 3, 2009 Author Share Posted January 3, 2009 a bit funny I admit in creating my scenario, but with Taylor at 244 and Carter at 255 the Redskins don't have defensive ends, they have two additional linebackers :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xameil Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I think if Campbell crashes and burns fast enough, and gets benched and Brennan is like Matt Ryan good, then Zorn will be able to stay.So Zorn does have a bail out, and if this whole, "Colt succeeds in the NFL thing" (not saying it will, I just believe it's possible) then both Zorn and Vinny are safe should we make the playoffs. If we don't, then I think one of them might be shown the door, although, it'd be hard to do either if Brennan shows promise and it was Vinny that drafted him. couple things...first I am not a Brennan hater..in fact when i saw him play I was impressed. However, Campbell will most likely come around this next season under Zorn. Zorn turned Hasselback into what he was. Secondly, I think it is unfair to even hope Brennan would be Matt Ryan good in his first go around. Atlanta has an awesome running game. Matt Ryan came from a college that always had a great running game, so was not much of a stretch. Also, I watched Ryan all through college (BC fan), and I always knew he would make a HUGE splash in the NFL. I have been saying he will start and be successful since he was drafted. He was an the exception to the rule imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimbo Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Let Zorn ride the Campbell train all the way to his firing! The way he came out and stated that there would be no competition this Spring just shows how narrow minded he is. I would love to see a guy like Parcells (balls) who truely puts the best player on the field. Actually, it probably took Parcells a couple games too long to sit Bledsoe and finally go with Romo sits to pee. Parcells doesn't like young players unless they REALLY stand out. Zorn is a bit old-school like that as well. I agree though. Zorn and Campbell are stuck with each other and I envision 2009 as their last year together. I believe Zorn has made Campbell a better QB but the WCO simply doesn't suit Jason at the NFL level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recent Vintage Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 couple things...first I am not a Brennan hater..in fact when i saw him play I was impressed. However, Campbell will most likely come around this next season under Zorn. Zorn turned Hasselback into what he was.Secondly, I think it is unfair to even hope Brennan would be Matt Ryan good in his first go around. Atlanta has an awesome running game. Matt Ryan came from a college that always had a great running game, so was not much of a stretch. Also, I watched Ryan all through college (BC fan), and I always knew he would make a HUGE splash in the NFL. I have been saying he will start and be successful since he was drafted. He was an the exception to the rule imo. I'm not saying I'm expecting it, I'm just saying to say Zorn is married to Campbell is false... Brennan could bail him out too. Again, not saying it's likely, just that it's possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paintrain Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Zorn is in trouble here IMO.This team has enough problems that even if Parcells or Cowher was brought in TOMORROW, we are probably looking at a 2-3 year rebuild in which 75% of this roster is outta here :doh: I'm starting to believe that wouldn't be the worst thing in the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RWJ Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Thus it would make sense for VC to look at FA and the draft to upgrade the OL. There will be no excuse if this is done why JC didn't succeed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHOPSkins Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 ....My belief is that one of the reasons he was hired to be the HC was his presentation to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato that he could indeed work with Jason so that the Redskins heavy investment in #17 would bear fruit. .....Mine Too....ASHBURN, Va. -- Even though there isn't a glimmer of a quarterback controversy in Washington, I'll pose the question: If Todd Collins outplays Jason Campbell in the team's five exhibition games, any chance he wins back a job that was his at the end of last season? "No," new coach Jim Zorn said, leaving no room for interpretation. "If (Collins) plays lights out, and we sputter with Jason my job is to get Jason up to speed by the time the season opens." http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10905810 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fire3fighter4 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 i hate to wish ill on the team....but i we bomb this season and truely get rid of Vinny C and Campbell, AND get us a top 10 draft pick, then Hello 5-11!! I like Zorn, and I think he'll be a decent coach one day...he was just thrown into a horrible position. I hope he would stay as a QB coach at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 My belief is that one of the reasons he was hired to be the HC was his presentation to Dan Snyder and Vinny Cerrato that he could indeed work with Jason so that the Redskins heavy investment in #17 would bear fruit. This happens more than a lot of owners want to admit - and it's a way for a HC candidate to get a leg up on another guy who might not want to commit to a marriage with a QB he doesn't know. I would HATE to think that my team ultimately hired an HC because he had the most hubris! But in the case of the Skins, it wouldn't surprise me. Campbells limitations SCREAM that he's a poor fit for the WCO but I guess Cerrato/Snyder just figured that Zorn was such a talent that he'd make it work. These hiring blunders have been happening since the inception of the league. Only the most naive of coaches think that they can force a system down a players throat. Say what you want about Greg Williams, but he didn't try to fit a square peg in a round hole. He just replaced the peg. Hopefully 3 more years don't go by before we replace the peg under center. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
33 Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 I couldn't agree more, and I've mentioned as much myself that JZ was brought in to make JC a gamer. Anything less is almost an admission of failure for Zorn. Besides how it would look to his superiors, it sure hasn't seemed like Zorn is the kind of guy to switch midstream. Regardless, JC is going into his contract year. That means more than just about anything else. It means if JC has it, this is the year he has to show it. And it means the Skins need to figure out how long they intend to give JC to prove he has it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NastyBoy Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 Mine Too....ASHBURN, Va. -- Even though there isn't a glimmer of a quarterback controversy in Washington, I'll pose the question: If Todd Collins outplays Jason Campbell in the team's five exhibition games, any chance he wins back a job that was his at the end of last season? "No," new coach Jim Zorn said, leaving no room for interpretation. "If (Collins) plays lights out, and we sputter with Jason my job is to get Jason up to speed by the time the season opens." http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/10905810 Interesting. Here's a post of mine, actually it was a new thread I'd started which was moved to an existing thread.............which is along the lines of what's being discussed here. I'm posting it here as well and my apologies to anyone who may have already seen it. Here's a little blurb I found on Fanball.com concerning statements made by Vinny regarding Jason Campbell:Jan 01, 2009 10:28 AM CST Campbell still needs to prove himself The News The Washington Post reports that the Redskins vice president of football operations Vinny Cerrato said that Jason Campbell will have to prove himself in 2009 if he hopes to remain with the team after the season. Our View Campbell finished the season with an 84.3 quarterback rating, despite not throwing an interception until Week 9. He has been fairly inconsistent throughout his first three seasons. While this may not be "earth-shattering" news, I actually find it refreshing to know that Vinnie actually admits concern on any level with Campbell at QB. If nothing else it's a positive sign that the team's brass is aware there may be an issue with the position, and is keeping a close eye on it. Hopefully it will ignite something in JC and dramatically impact his performance. If not, it seems the FO is at least very aware that next season is a make or break year, and will take action if need be. I found this report interesting if nothing else. I hadn't heard any inkling of the FO being concerned with Campbell thus far. I am NOT a Campbell hater, for the record. I want whats best for the team. If JC isn't it........so be it. Personally, I don't think he's the man for the job. What I want is to see the organization handle the situation proactively, and with the proper precedence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Reaganaut Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 This may be a healthy sign for the organization, but don't expect Campbell to be evaluated like other positions. He will be coddled. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
illone Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 You kinda saw this coming because Campbell was a Gibbs pick. The real question is how long does this continue? I feel like the Skins are just patiently awaiting more mediocrity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost of Posted January 3, 2009 Share Posted January 3, 2009 You kinda saw this coming because Campbell was a Gibbs pick.The real question is how long does this continue? I feel like the Skins are just patiently awaiting more mediocrity. You know, if we had absolute GARBAGE behind Campbell, I could at least wait to develop a new QB but we have someone who has flashed some potential and the guy who actually WON us the games to get to the playoffs last year. I feel like we're just going to sacrifice a season to Campbell's development when a team like Atlanta was READY to do that for Ryan and is still making the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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