Why Zorn & Campbell Are Wedded To One Another

[IHOPSkins]

With no one having film on him for years, running an offense he had been in for years.

Sorry, but I think NFL defenses would have ate him up over a full season.

You rated Collins as being "The Same" as JC

I say

The Coaches last year thought TC was worse....and they were wrong

They could have been wrong again.....especially considering the coddling JC is getting (POLITICS?)

[TheLongshot]

You rated Collins as being "The Same" as JC

No, I said that both were not impressive in preseason. That doesn't make them the same.

The Coaches last year thought TC was worse....and they were wrong

They could have been wrong again.....especially considering the coddling JC is getting (POLITICS?)

Not sure what you are talking about here. TC earned the 2nd string job.

And yes, Gibbs went with the young guy, because that's what you are supposed to do, at least until they prove that they can't get the job done.

But, what makes you think that Collins wouldn't have similar late season issues that Brunell had, particularly when there were protection issues?

[Hooper]

The Coaches last year thought TC was worse....and they were wrong.

Saunders always believed in Collins. He pushed for him to start the day he came here -- he thought he was a talented guy who never got his chance because Trent Green never got hurt. Todd was an unknown quantity to Gibbs. He drafted Campbell and it made sense to play him -- Collins was on the wrong side of not just 30, but 35.

But as a guy who wants JC to succeed, here's what really concerns me. It's come out lately that Gibbs gave great thought to benching JC even BEFORE he got hurt last year, and that both he and Gregg Williams probably would have started Collins this year had they been head coach. It seems that even the guy who traded up to draft him was starting to lose faith in him.

I don't think Zorn is wedded to Campbell next year. It's clear the front office isn't entirely sold on JC right now. If the offense continues to struggle early into the season, I suspect we will see a new qb under center.

[RocketCitySkins]

I don't think Zorn is wedded to Campbell next year. It's clear the front office isn't entirely sold on JC right now. If the offense continues to struggle early into the season, I suspect we will see a new qb under center.

Are you saying this because they haven't offered JC a new contract or at least an extension?

Vinny didn't say anything negative in his last press conference about JC. In fact, he talked about seeing progress specifically with protecting the ball and that JC put the team on his shoulders in 4 games last year. Vinny included the Rams and 49'ers games even though we lost those.

[Hooper]

Are you saying this because they haven't offered JC a new contract or at least an extension?

Vinny didn't say anything negative in his last press conference about JC. In fact, he talked about seeing progress specifically with protecting the ball and that JC put the team on his shoulders in 4 games last year. Vinny included the Rams and 49'ers games even though we lost those.

I think Vinny is just being smart -- and I say that as someone who criticizes him more than anyone. JC improved in some areas this year, but he also showed many of the same flaws he did last year in an entirely different system. Giving up on him at this moment makes no sense, but neither does giving him a contract extension -- or at least one JC would sign. The best option is too hope he improves greatly in year two of the system -- to make him earn an extension. If he doesn't, you give up on him fairly early in the season. It can't be a repeat of this year where it became clear that Zorn would not bench JC no matter what.

Really, what are the Skins options? You can't trade Campbell. Any veteran qb you sign is going to be old and on the downside of their career. Colt hasn't gotten anything other than scout team reps. Best to stay the course and get the guys behind Campbell ready. And I say this as someone who doesn't think Campbell ends next year as the starter.

[IHOPSkins]

....what makes you think that Collins wouldn't have similar late season issues that Brunell had, particularly when there were protection issues?

Could Be Collins can't "Last" as long as JC

Your question

Given Collins perfomance last year.....do you not think we should have made the change sooner?

[IHOPSkins]

.....I don't think Zorn is wedded to Campbell next year. It's clear the front office isn't entirely sold on JC right now. If the offense continues to struggle early into the season, I suspect we will see a new qb under center.

One hopes that common sense will prevail

Maybe JC does improve to an acceptable level next year....I would add, behind schedule

But I wonder how long we wait to pull him if JC does languish again?

[HawaiianTime]

I don't think Zorn is wedded to Campbell next year. It's clear the front office isn't entirely sold on JC right now. If the offense continues to struggle early into the season, I suspect we will see a new qb under center.

Maybe Vinny and Danny are waiting another year so they can draft Colt McCoy next year. You know, 2 Colts are better than 1.

Edit: Maybe they will call it the Tale of Two Colts.

[TheLongshot]

I think Vinny is just being smart -- and I say that as someone who criticizes him more than anyone. JC improved in some areas this year, but he also showed many of the same flaws he did last year in an entirely different system. Giving up on him at this moment makes no sense, but neither does giving him a contract extension -- or at least one JC would sign. The best option is too hope he improves greatly in year two of the system -- to make him earn an extension. If he doesn't, you give up on him fairly early in the season. It can't be a repeat of this year where it became clear that Zorn would not bench JC no matter what.

Really, what are the Skins options? You can't trade Campbell. Any veteran qb you sign is going to be old and on the downside of their career. Colt hasn't gotten anything other than scout team reps. Best to stay the course and get the guys behind Campbell ready. And I say this as someone who doesn't think Campbell ends next year as the starter.

Funny that we disagree on so many things, but we agree on this point. I said early on in the season that for the remainder of his contract, we pretty much had to go with Campbell. None of the other options were either that much better or wouldn't be ready in that time.

To be honest, tho, I don't think benching Campbell would have affected much of anything in this offense, since there were problems beyond just the QB position. No, Campbell wasn't good enough to overcome the problems with the offense. Problem is, no one else on the roster was good enough either. A lot will weigh on what they do this offseason to address these problems.

[IHOPSkins]

.....Problem is, no one else on the roster was good enough either......

Again

That was not the case last year

It might not have been the case this year

[Hooper]

To be honest, tho, I don't think benching Campbell would have affected much of anything in this offense, since there were problems beyond just the QB position.

We'll never know. But JC had all the same problems in Zorn's offense that he did in Saunders offense, which concerns me.

[NastyBoy]

I'm sure Campbell would have looked good against a lot of guys who probably aren't on NFL squads. Even so, Colt wasn't THAT impressive. He had a couple of big plays here and there, but even then he came close to throwing ints as much as TDs.

While I like his potential, he just wasn't NFL ready as of last preseason.

Forget the big plays, touchdowns, INT's totally. That isn't the point at all.

What I took away from the preseason was the way CB moved the pocket, threw on the run, and the way he sparked the offense. We all realize he didn't play the #1's. That's truly unimportant. What I got a chance to see was that physically and mentally, as a quarterback, Colt simply has a more natural presence and skill set than Campbell. Period.

Was he NFL ready at pre season? No. I agree with you completely. Few rookies ever are at the position, regardless of what conference or school you come from. The point I present to you is this...........Colt is much more of a natural QB in every sense of the word. Jason looks totally forced on darn near every play. Whether you are an advocate for JC or not, I do not know how you wouldn't come to the same conclusion if you were evaluating his talent level and performance objectively. "Objectively" being the key word, here.

My agenda is simple. Give the team the best possible chance to win not only today, but for years to come. I personally feel that whether it's this year or next, Campbell will be gone and will be a backup on someone else's roster. So...........why delay the inevitable and set the franchise further back in it's development?

There are lots of legitimate answers to that question, I realize. I'm not an idiot and truly don't need a lecture on all the great things that "might" happen with JC. Spare us all, please. My belief is that very few of the attributes a QB needs to be successful.....(notice I didn't say "great" or HOF-worthy).......are present in Campbell's game. And then there are the intangibles he lacks. The little things leaders do that don't show up on stat sheets. Let's not even go there.....

[NastyBoy]

Are you saying this because they haven't offered JC a new contract or at least an extension?

Vinny didn't say anything negative in his last press conference about JC. In fact, he talked about seeing progress specifically with protecting the ball and that JC put the team on his shoulders in 4 games last year. Vinny included the Rams and 49'ers games even though we lost those.

If Vinny did in fact say this..........he's even more inept than previously believed. That is just a maddening statement and so obviously the "P.C." thing to say. "Owner/GM-speak", if you will.

Why anyone puts all that much stock in what comes out of the FO at this time of year is beyond me. Remember prior to Jason Taylor coming here, Vinny denied any of those rumors publicly while the contract was being typed up? Come on, people. Open your eyes. We can't possibly be this naive.

[TheLongshot]

Forget the big plays, touchdowns, INT's totally. That isn't the point at all.

What I took away from the preseason was the way CB moved the pocket, threw on the run, and the way he sparked the offense. We all realize he didn't play the #1's. That's truly unimportant. What I got a chance to see was that physically and mentally, as a quarterback, Colt simply has a more natural presence and skill set than Campbell. Period.

I don't disagree with this. My point is that Colt needs a lot of work in other areas before he can succeed. Simply having those elements doesn't mean that he will succeed in the NFL. I think of someone like Eric Zeier who had similar elements, but was never really made much of an impact in the NFL.

I rather that they take their time with him and make sure he learns all he needs to learn before they throw him out there. In the meantime, we can find out how Campbell grows in this offense.

My agenda is simple. Give the team the best possible chance to win not only today, but for years to come. I personally feel that whether it's this year or next, Campbell will be gone and will be a backup on someone else's roster. So...........why delay the inevitable and set the franchise further back in it's development?

That's under the assumption that starting Colt now would be good for Colt's development and good for the franchise in general. Certainly that's a question for Zorn, but I personally don't believe it would be good overall, particularly when there are other issues on the offense that need to be solved.

Course, what happens if Colt bombs out and Campbell becomes at good QB? We are left with starting over again without having a QB because we didn't have the patience to find out if Campbell could do it.

I know, I know, he's entering his 5th season and we should know by now, but I do think the changes in the offense, changes in his mechanics with three different QB coaches and three different offenses has retarded his development somewhat.

One thing I do know, improving all the other things that need to improve will help the QB, no matter who the QB will be for this team in the future.

[phatboy41]

That was one heck of a post. I agree completely. And, thank you for your insight, it is both intelligent and to the point. Rather than bashing anyone you present a theory that provides reason as to why Zorn and/or Campbell may be regressing or progressing and what it is they need to accomplish to develop some form of stability.

[KokoMike]

Are you saying this because they haven't offered JC a new contract or at least an extension?

Vinny didn't say anything negative in his last press conference about JC. In fact, he talked about seeing progress specifically with protecting the ball and that JC put the team on his shoulders in 4 games last year. Vinny included the Rams and 49'ers games even though we lost those.

Hopefully, Vinny is posturing to get the most value in a trade. Campbell would be a good fit with the Minnesota Vikings. I'm sure Campbell would like to go.