Redskins Final Game Truly A Microcosm of 2008 Season

[bulldog]

The Redskins are an average football team. That's what 15 weeks showed and that's how the team played today. There was some good, some bad and some stretches of just plain mediocre.

Ultimately, the problem areas for the Redskins are clear for all to see from this game. How you fix them personnel wise is the professional challenge facing those at Redskins Park.

To me the Redskins finish at 8-8 is a weak 8-8. And for that reason my thoughts have gravitated more and more for the need for a major rebuild of the roster, not merely another attempt at a 'reload' such as in 2004 and 2006.

The reason I say it is a weak 8-8 is that the record was 'achieved' with the oldest active roster in the NFL.

This Redskins team is not a younger team learning how to win and grow for the future.

In many areas, notably OL, DL, and LB this is a team that has players whose careers have already reached their collective peak and in all likelihood are looking at continued declines in productivity heading into 2009 and beyond.

What I thought might be a 1-2 year transition to contender status has been complicated with the lingering questions regarding the 2008 draft class and the untimely surrender of #2 and #6 picks in the upcoming draft for the soon-to-be 35 year old Jason Taylor.

Only a team really feeling itself to be very close to a championship should contemplate deals of the magnitude the Redskins made for Taylor. That #2 pick on most clubs is a player you project to be a starter in the NFL.

Given the age here, how can this team throw away a potential starter on the OL, DL or at LB for the next 4-6 years?

As with the previous moves for Brandon Lloyd and TJ Duckett, the Redskins have given up the equivalent of a draft class full of picks for 3 players, NONE of whom made a single pro bowl for the Redskins or made significant contributions over the course of a 16 game season.

That said, again, I am back at the point of thinking a rebuild rather than re-tool is ahead of this team. The longer Snyder and Cerrato resist admitting it to themselves the longer you will see the 7-9 to 9-7 rut stay in place.

You look up and down this roster and age-wise it looks a lot like the George Allen Over the Hill Gang clubs from the 1970's, the difference being that this team hasn't consistently put up the 10 win seasons those clubs did.

For those that think we are a player or two away consider the following and point to a contender (Giants, Steelers, Carolina, etc.) that faces the same age/time dilemma in 2009:

QB - Todd Collins - 36

FB - Mike Sellers - 32

WR - Santana Moss - 29

WR - James Thrash - 33

WR - Antwaan Randle El - 30

TE - Todd Yoder - 31

OC - Casey Rabach - 31

OG - Randy Thomas - 32

OG - Pete Kendall - 35

OG - Jason Fabini - 34

OT - Chris Samuels - 31

OT - Jon Jansen - 32

DL - Phillip Daniels - 35

DL - Jason Taylor - 35

DL - Andre Carter - 30

DL - Demetric Evans - 30

DL - Cornelius Griffin - 32

LB - London Fletcher - 33

LB - Marcus Washington - 32

LB - Khary Campbell - 30

CB - Shawn Springs - 33

CB - Fred Smoot - 30

S - Mike Green - 31

While age is not a problem for this team in the specialist positions, I think the 16 games in 2008 shows that the Redskins need to re-think their current personnel at PK, P and PR. Rock Cartwright is the only keeper in this group.

[DaMuller7]

The Redskins are an average football team.

I didn't even read the rest because you just summed it up right there brotha... Just disappointing.

[skinfan2k]

They are also players on our roster that are being paid too much above their ability. I can name a fistful of players we pay more than any other team in the league would. In addition, there are some players on that list that our fans think are good, but in reality they are god awful

[SkinsHokieFan]

Cerrato was talking about 13-15 players changing this offseason

It probably needs to be more like 20+ and everybody over the age of 30 with exception to Samuels, Sellars and Collins

I don't even know where to begin to re-build this thing. But it is badly needed

[Bacon]

Today was not an accurate representation of the season, because the offense didn't play all that poorly, and the defense was garbage...at least to its lofty standards.

[bulldog]

Older players tend to get injured more often and the Redskins lost a LOT of man-games from Springs, Washington, Jansen, Griffin, etc. over the past 2-3 years.

You look at the Giants or Cowboys in the NFC East and they have 23-26 year old players starting as core/key players at a number of critical spots.

Meanwhile, you can count the Laron Landrys and Chris Cooleys on one hand here.

If the 2008 draftees Thomas and Kelly come on and perform well in 2009 and you get a contribution from Chad Rinehart, then perhaps this situation is not as dire as it now appears.

But in the April 2009 draft we are already down #2, #4 and #6 picks.

How are you going to plug holes and replace older veterans with only 3-4 picks?

[RWJ]

The Redskins are an average football team. That's what 15 weeks showed and that's how the team played today. There was some good, some bad and some stretches of just plain mediocre.

Ultimately, the problem areas for the Redskins are clear for all to see from this game. How you fix them personnel wise is the professional challenge facing those at Redskins Park.

To me the Redskins finish at 8-8 is a weak 8-8. And for that reason my thoughts have gravitated more and more for the need for a major rebuild of the roster, not merely another attempt at a 'reload' such as in 2004 and 2006.

The reason I say it is a weak 8-8 is that the record was 'achieved' with the oldest active roster in the NFL.

This Redskins team is not a younger team learning how to win and grow for the future.

In many areas, notably OL, DL, and LB this is a team that has players whose careers have already reached their collective peak and in all likelihood are looking at continued declines in productivity heading into 2009 and beyond.

What I thought might be a 1-2 year transition to contender status has been complicated with the lingering questions regarding the 2008 draft class and the untimely surrender of #2 and #6 picks in the upcoming draft for the soon-to-be 35 year old Jason Taylor.

Only a team really feeling itself to be very close to a championship should contemplate deals of the magnitude the Redskins made for Taylor. That #2 pick on most clubs is a player you project to be a starter in the NFL.

Given the age here, how can this team throw away a potential starter on the OL, DL or at LB for the next 4-6 years?

As with the previous moves for Brandon Lloyd and TJ Duckett, the Redskins have given up the equivalent of a draft class full of picks for 3 players, NONE of whom made a single pro bowl for the Redskins or made significant contributions over the course of a 16 game season.

That said, again, I am back at the point of thinking a rebuild rather than re-tool is ahead of this team. The longer Snyder and Cerrato resist admitting it to themselves the longer you will see the 7-9 to 9-7 rut stay in place.

You look up and down this roster and age-wise it looks a lot like the George Allen Over the Hill Gang clubs from the 1970's, the difference being that this team hasn't consistently put up the 10 win seasons those clubs did.

For those that think we are a player or two away consider the following and point to a contender (Giants, Steelers, Carolina, etc.) that faces the same age/time dilemma in 2009:

QB - Todd Collins - 36

FB - Mike Sellers - 32

WR - Santana Moss - 29

WR - James Thrash - 33

WR - Antwaan Randle El - 30

TE - Todd Yoder - 31

OC - Casey Rabach - 31

OG - Randy Thomas - 32

OG - Pete Kendall - 35

OG - Jason Fabini - 34

OT - Chris Samuels - 31

OT - Jon Jansen - 32

DL - Phillip Daniels - 35

DL - Jason Taylor - 35

DL - Andre Carter - 30

DL - Demetric Evans - 30

DL - Cornelius Griffin - 32

LB - London Fletcher - 33

LB - Marcus Washington - 32

LB - Khary Campbell - 30

CB - Shawn Springs - 33

CB - Fred Smoot - 30

S - Mike Green - 31

While age is not a problem for this team in the specialist positions, I think the 16 games in 2008 shows that the Redskins need to re-think their current personnel at PK, P and PR. Rock Cartwright is the only keeper in this group.

So Bulldog you saying "Blow it up." We are old and not getting any younger that's for sure.

[Baculus]

Yeah - that is a pretty depressing prospect. The main problem is that we really do not have the front office to retool into a younger team. Vinny seems to care little about a rebuilding philosophy, especially at that rate we trade away draft picks. Combine that with our habit of grabbing older free agents, and you have the makings for our middle-of-the-road roster from the last decade or so.

It will be very difficult to every rebuild into a youthful up-and-coming team unless a few things change:

1. We get a different "GM" other then Vinny.

2. A new owner.

3. A coach that has actual control over personnel decisions and believes in an infusion of youth.

Unless one of those factors change, I do not believe we will ever use the draft to retool into a younger, better team.

[elkabong82]

Younger, better players on both OL and DL, and another year in the system and we should be able to do better next season, IMO.

[Baculus]

Older players tend to get injured more often and the Redskins lost a LOT of man-games from Springs, Washington, Jansen, Griffin, etc. over the past 2-3 years.

You look at the Giants or Cowboys in the NFC East and they have 23-26 year old players starting as core/key players at a number of critical spots.

Meanwhile, you can count the Laron Landrys and Chris Cooleys on one hand here.

If the 2008 draftees Thomas and Kelly come on and perform well in 2009 and you get a contribution from Chad Rinehart, then perhaps this situation is not as dire as it now appears.

But in the April 2009 draft we are already down #2, #4 and #6 picks.

How are you going to plug holes and replace older veterans with only 3-4 picks?

My fear is that, again, the team will trade down, and, again, we will not pick a player in the first round. So instead of getting a blue chipper, we draft some 2nd or 3rd rounder that may not see the field all season.

I just feel disgusted knowing that we gave away a second for a defensive end that barely did anything all year. What's worse is that the front office never seems to learn - they just do this year after year.

It is confounding and mind boggling.

[bulldog]

The rebuild will come faster if Heyer, Rinehart on the OL and Thomas/Kelly at WR turn out be significant contributors, no doubt.

At this point I would like to think that Heyer is a good bet to be a contributor. Kelly according to the coaches is a playmaker when healthy.

But you have to look at how raw Thomas looked and how many games Rinehart was made inactive for and question how high of a jump we are going to see in one offseason from them.

[Baculus]

Younger, better players on both OL and DL, and another year in the system and we should be able to do better next season, IMO.

You can't get younger on both sides with missing draft picks. Otherwise, we just end up signing a bunch of mediocre UFAs that cannot make up for a lack of overall talent.

We've been wanting to get younger for years and it just never happens. Under Marty we really had that potential, but we know how that went down....

[skinfan2k]

We can all talk about the draft, but this team is afraid to play rookies and allow rookies to make their mistakes on the field

[Baculus]

They are also players on our roster that are being paid too much above their ability. I can name a fistful of players we pay more than any other team in the league would. In addition, there are some players on that list that our fans think are good, but in reality they are god awful

Yeah, that was my exact thought. We overpay guys that are older and really aren't living up to their salary, so we end up on the cheap in areas where we need more investment.

[bulldog]

if you lack the high picks, you have to do what Bobby Beathard did and strike gold with some undrafted rookie free agents and mid-tier veterans who have more in the tank than their previous clubs anticipated.

unfortunately, this front office has not been known as a successful bargain shopper in the personnel grocery store.

[GSF]

All of the draft picks that we have traded away really came back to haunt us. As the older guys got hurt, there was no young talent to step in and take over.

I do not agree however that the whole team is old. The team is very old on the lines. They need to add several lineman which is going to be tough in 1 offseason.

[Baculus]

if you lack the high picks, you have to do what Bobby Beathard did and strike gold with some undrafted rookie free agents and mid-tier veterans who have more in the tank than their previous clubs anticipated.

unfortunately, this front office has not been known as a successful bargain shopper in the personnel grocery store.

Yeah, I think that goes back to our FO draft issues. We need a new Bobby Beathard, but I unfortunately do not see Vinny being fired nor Snyder handing over complete power to an actual GM.

I wish Snyder would REALLY put the team before everything else, but I am now convinced he may be too much of a control freak to allow that to happen.

[bulldog]

the linebacking corps outside of McIntosh is old.

two of the four top corners are over 30.

Sellers will be 33 by opening day. Moss will be 30. ARE is already 30.

there is more age on this team (and declining productivity) than on the lines alone.

[Baculus]

All of the draft picks that we have traded away really came back to haunt us. As the older guys got hurt, there was no young talent to step in and take over.

I do not agree however that the whole team is old. The team is very old on the lines. They need to add several lineman which is going to be tough in 1 offseason.

All of the team isn't old, but a lot - too many - are older; some of them still perform, but we really had some physical breakdowns. It also doesn't seem to help that our physical trainers are seemingly unable to keep everyone healthy. Or at least to me it seems like we are injured more then most football clubs.

[fosback]

All you have to do is look at Baltimore. Joe Flacco had 5 big plays of 20 yards or more today tol no name receivers, the Redskins come up with excuses about receivers 'learning' the position. Their defense always gets a key turnover or a score - the Redskins on the other hand has the offense giving up a key turnover or score regularly.

The DNA of this team is screwed up somewhere and I for one don't know the answer.

[Baculus]

All you have to do is look at Baltimore. Joe Flacco had 5 big plays of 20 yards or more today tol no name receivers, the Redskins come up with excuses about receivers 'learning' the position. Their defense always gets a key turnover or a score - the Redskins on the other hand has the offense giving up a key turnover or score regularly.

The DNA of this team is screwed up somewhere and I for one don't know the answer.

Sadly enough, the Ravens represent what we should be as a team. They just have a different mentality and make better decisions. I think the big difference is in their front office and how they operate, which is more on par with the mentality of other winning organizations such as the Patriots or the Colts.

It's definitely very disappointing.

[bulldog]

the Ravens are an example of a team that completely rebuilt their offensive line in the past 2-3 years with draft picks and undrafted free agents.

there is no way to compare the Ravens defense to Washington's. Greg Blache doesn't have Terrell Suggs to throw at the quarterback in crunch time.

he also doesn't have Ed Reed intercepting passes and returning them for touchdowns.

[81artmonk]

The Redskins are an average football team. That's what 15 weeks showed and that's how the team played today. There was some good, some bad and some stretches of just plain mediocre.

Ultimately, the problem areas for the Redskins are clear for all to see from this game. How you fix them personnel wise is the professional challenge facing those at Redskins Park.

I whole heartidly argree!!

To me the Redskins finish at 8-8 is a weak 8-8. And for that reason my thoughts have gravitated more and more for the need for a major rebuild of the roster, not merely another attempt at a 'reload' such as in 2004 and 2006.

The reason I say it is a weak 8-8 is that the record was 'achieved' with the oldest active roster in the NFL.

I don't agree, we're 8-8 due to poor play not due to age

This Redskins team is not a younger team learning how to win and grow for the future.

In many areas, notably OL, DL, and LB this is a team that has players whose careers have already reached their collective peak and in all likelihood are looking at continued declines in productivity heading into 2009 and beyond.

What I thought might be a 1-2 year transition to contender status has been complicated with the lingering questions regarding the 2008 draft class and the untimely surrender of #2 and #6 picks in the upcoming draft for the soon-to-be 35 year old Jason Taylor.

I disagree here too, some of our strengths are in our LB core. Fletcher is by far a stud and has made the difference on D this season.

I totally agree that JT is a bust!! I'm not sure why studs from other teams come to the redskins and flop, or players who are flops leave the redskins and flourish on other teams!

Only a team really feeling itself to be very close to a championship should contemplate deals of the magnitude the Redskins made for Taylor. That #2 pick on most clubs is a player you project to be a starter in the NFL.

Given the age here, how can this team throw away a potential starter on the OL, DL or at LB for the next 4-6 years?

Again I agree with regard to JT.

As with the previous moves for Brandon Lloyd and TJ Duckett, the Redskins have given up the equivalent of a draft class full of picks for 3 players, NONE of whom made a single pro bowl for the Redskins or made significant contributions over the course of a 16 game season.

That said, again, I am back at the point of thinking a rebuild rather than re-tool is ahead of this team. The longer Snyder and Cerrato resist admitting it to themselves the longer you will see the 7-9 to 9-7 rut stay in place.

I disagree here. You dump some of the players in positions that are hurting this team and you have something. Ie, DB. Springs is the man, and the best we have at DB however, he is hurt to much to play. In the last 2-3 years he has almost sat out more than he has played.

Some of the O-line needs replacing. The pass protection has been lacking and evident that some if not maybe all need to be rethought or replaced.

Randel El, isn't a starting WR. and unfortunetly the ones we have drafted haven't panned out too well. But realize too, that just like JC they are learning the offense and haven't many opportunities to shine.

You look up and down this roster and age-wise it looks a lot like the George Allen Over the Hill Gang clubs from the 1970's, the difference being that this team hasn't consistently put up the 10 win seasons those clubs did.

For those that think we are a player or two away consider the following and point to a contender (Giants, Steelers, Carolina, etc.) that faces the same age/time dilemma in 2009:

QB - Todd Collins - 36 keep good backup

FB - Mike Sellers - 32 keep, proves his worth every game

WR - Santana Moss - 29 keep, not need to explain his worth

WR - James Thrash - 33 drop, hasn't done anything since he got here

WR - Antwaan Randle El - 30 Keep if he is going to be the 3rd WR

TE - Todd Yoder - 31 Drop, hasn't produced

OC - Casey Rabach - 31 Has done well in stretches. Needs improving

OG - Randy Thomas - 32 ???

OG - Pete Kendall - 35 Drop!!!!!!!

OG - Jason Fabini - 34 DROP!!!!!

OT - Chris Samuels - 31 Pro-bowler who doesn't play consistantly???

OT - Jon Jansen - 32 Hurt too often, I hate but drop him

DL - Phillip Daniels - 35 ??? We need a pass rush

DL - Jason Taylor - 35 Total BUST!!!

DL - Andre Carter - 30 Stud, keep him, he has done well

DL - Demetric Evans - 30 Drop

LB - London Fletcher - 33 Keep, he is another stud on D

LB - Khary Campbell - 30 DROP

CB - Shawn Springs - 33 Best DB we have yet injured too often drop

CB - Fred Smoot - 30 Could be great, but too inconsistant

S - Mike Green - 31 DROP

While age is not a problem for this team in the specialist positions, I think the 16 games in 2008 shows that the Redskins need to re-think their current personnel at PK, P and PR. Rock Cartwright is the only keeper in this group.

Totally agree, we need a truely consisten PK and P!!! They may have single handidly recked some games that we could have won. Seems to be an issue with this team every year. Don't know why.

I think we have a pretty good D. We are 5th in the league. We did a really good job this season outside of a few games where we couldn't stop the run.

It's mainly out O that needs attention. I think with some additions to the line, some WR that can produce and be a threat and some proof that JC can get the job done, we are set to be a playoff team next season.

[bulldog]

what happened to our #5 ranked defense today in the second half against a very mediocre 49ers offense? San Francisco has ONE legitimate NFL skill player on offense in Frank Gore, yet the Redskins defense allowed Shaun Hill and Josh Morgan (a #6 pick in 2008) to work the victory with long balls against the secondary.

the defense also had poor performances against the Rams and Bengals, two teams that were among the worst in the NFL.

heck, Cincinnati was playing without Carson Palmer at quarterback.

and they still made plays.

[pjfootballer]

Last in the NFC East where everyone predicted us.