Vinny Isn't That Bad...

[Chiefinonhaze]

Vinny isn't the only one making decisions, I'm sure Gibbs and now Zorn had a lot to do with these decisions also. He is not the one person making all the shots, because you can add Snyder into the equation as well. He isn't the best, but he isn't the worst. At Least we don't have Matt Millen.

I don't understand why he gets so much hate. Yeah he has made dumb decisions, but he has also made a lot of great ones as well. Our drafts have been good the past few years, and a good amount of our free agents have produced. Off the top of my head some great draft moves in past few years:

Chris Cooley

Sean Taylor

Carlos Rogers/when everyone wanted Mike Williams

Anthony Montgomery/late round steal

Kedric Golston/late round steal

Chris Horton/late round steal

Rocky Mcintosh

Jason Campbell/he may not be payton manning, but he is solid. he doesn't "lose us games"

That is a lot of starters and three top five players at their position.

And we also have a lot of great free agent pickups. Too many to list, but some key ones are: Fletcher, Brunell, Todd Collins, raped the Jets in trade for Moss, Portis trade, Washington had a few good years, Griffin, Carter.

He has made his fair share of mistakes, and definitly should have gotten more lineman, but he has put together a good team(playoffs 2 out of last three years and possibly this year). He may not have felt the need for lineman in the first round because Samuels is a pro-bowler and Jansen and Randy Thomas used to be maulers. I think it will hit him this year that we need lineman hopefully:cheers:

Maybe I don't know what I'm talking about, but can someone please tell my why everyone hates this guy?

[illone]

It's not hate.

Vinny has a horrible track record of building an NFL team like a real NFL gm.

Real GMs build the trenches. Look at Polian, Reese, Pioli/Belichick, Parcells, and any other NFL team that has had any amount of success over the past decade or before, and you will start to see a pattern develop: these guys draft linemen.

Vinny doesn't.

Case closed.

[Chiefinonhaze]

It's not hate.

Vinny has a horrible track record of building an NFL team like a real NFL gm.

Real GMs build the trenches. Look at Polian, Reese, Pioli/Belichick, Parcells, and any other NFL team that has had any amount of success over the past decade or before, and you will start to see a pattern develop: these guys draft linemen.

Vinny doesn't.

Case closed.

Yes he hasn't put emphasis on the trenches, but he is not the only one calling the shots. He may not have felt the need to build the O-line because we had three above average and one of them being a probowler offensive line.

You cannot expect him to use a first rounder on a o-linemen when we had proven veterans.

As far as the D-line, we have good d-lineman for our system. Our system requires guys that can stop the run, and Phillip Daniels was a large part of that. Do you forget Anthony Montgomery and Kedric Golston? Those are two late round steals on the D-line....

Once again, he doesn't make all of the decisions. Hell, he doesn't even have the final decision. He may have a bad track record I don't follow him like that, but I would say he hasn't done bad for us the past 5 years.

[Conn]

Yes he hasn't put emphasis on the trenches, but he is not the only one calling the shots. He may not have felt the need to build the O-line because we had three above average and one of them being a probowler offensive line.

You cannot expect him to use a first rounder on a o-linemen when we had proven veterans.

As far as the D-line, we have good d-lineman for our system. Our system requires guys that can stop the run, and Phillip Daniels was a large part of that. Do you forget Anthony Montgomery and Kedric Golston? Those are two late round steals on the D-line....

Once again, he doesn't make all of the decisions. Hell, he doesn't even have the final decision. He may have a bad track record I don't follow him like that, but I would say he hasn't done bad for us the past 5 years.

But the point is that these proven veterans have been noticeably going downhill for years. Fans, and posters here, were predicting the problems from not drafting lineman up to 4 or 5 years ago...

And while our D-line might be sufficient at stopping the run, I would argue that A) our linebackers, and Fletcher, are actually a huge part of this and mask some of their deficiency here as well and that either way, they get no pass rush up the middle AT ALL, which means that no matter how good our DE's are, or aren't, they are just gonna loop around while the QB steps up in a perfect pocket that out DT can't collapse from the front, and get zero pressure. Which in turn puts more pressure on our secondary, who are LUCKILY superb, and cover up this weakness in alot of ways.

These are the huge problems behind not drafting lineman even periodically over the past decade.

[Chiefinonhaze]

But the point is that these proven veterans have been noticeably going downhill for years. Fans, and posters here, were predicting the problems from not drafting lineman up to 4 or 5 years ago...

And while our D-line might be sufficient at stopping the run, I would argue that A) our linebackers, and Fletcher, are actually a huge part of this and mask some of their deficiency here as well and that either way, they get no pass rush up the middle AT ALL, which means that no matter how good our DE's are, or aren't, they are just gonna loop around while the QB steps up in a perfect pocket that out DT can't collapse from the front, and get zero pressure. Which in turn puts more pressure on our secondary, who are LUCKILY superb, and cover up this weakness in alot of ways.

These are the huge problems behind not drafting lineman even periodically over the past decade.

We have a good defense. THe whole dynamic of the defensive line can change with one player. If we were to get a Haloti type player or Haynseworth, imagine our D-line. Daniels, Carter, Mongomery and Haloti. Who would run on us?

[Conn]

We have a good defense. THe whole dynamic of the defensive line can change with one player. If we were to get a Haloti type player or Haynseworth, imagine our D-line. Daniels, Carter, Mongomery and Haloti. Who would run on us?

I'm not saying we don't have a good defense. I'm debunking your myth that its been excusable for our lines to have been ignored for so long. Our defense is good. Our pass-rush is non-existent, and your "one more player will do it" mentality is why we're always old on the lines, and never win the battles in the trenches. Because then next year comes, and we're one year older, and we need another "quick-fix"....If you want dominant lines, the only way to a consistently winning team, you need your line to play many seasons together, to gel and have success. We need a younger O-line and D-line to grow together. Adding a free agent once in a while might be a stop-gap, but its what has set back this franchise forever....

[Chiefinonhaze]

I'm not saying we don't have a good defense. I'm debunking your myth that its been excusable for our lines to have been ignored for so long. Our defense is good. Our pass-rush is non-existent, and your "one more player will do it" mentality is why we're always old on the lines, and never win the battles in the trenches. Because then next year comes, and we're one year older, and we need another "quick-fix"....If you want dominant lines, the only way to a consistently winning team, you need your line to play many seasons together, to gel and have success. We need a younger O-line and D-line to grow together. Adding a free agent once in a while might be a stop-gap, but its what has set back this franchise forever....

The current group had been together for 3+ years. Carter, Daniels, Golston/Montgomery, Griffin. Carter was "the pass rusher", because he did well last year. We also stop the run pretty good. Ill take shutting down the opponents running game over a great pass rush. A Great pass rush can be neutralized by a great quarterback, or a great O-line. The ability to stop the run can do a lot for a football game.

You can't have everything you want. Could we have done better in building the D-line? Yeah. But we are top 5 in stopping the run, with most of our D-line banged up all year. Imagine if we were top 5 in stopping the run and sacks?? We would then be the greatest defense in the in the league with the secondary we have right now.

Like I said we are one 1st round draft pick from being pretty young on the D-line. Your claim that we are old on the D-line would be false with a great draft pick. Carter is not that old, Golston and Monty are young, and with a 1st round DE we would be pretty young.

[Conn]

The current group had been together for 3+ years. Carter, Daniels, Golston/Montgomery, Griffin. Carter was "the pass rusher", because he did well last year. We also stop the run pretty good. Ill take shutting down the opponents running game over a great pass rush. A Great pass rush can be neutralized by a great quarterback, or a great O-line. The ability to stop the run can do a lot for a football game.

You can't have everything you want. Could we have done better in building the D-line? Yeah. But we are top 5 in stopping the run, with most of our D-line banged up all year. Imagine if we were top 5 in stopping the run and sacks?? We would then be the greatest defense in the in the league with the secondary we have right now.

Like I said we are one 1st round draft pick from being pretty young on the D-line. Your claim that we are old on the D-line would be false with a great draft pick. Carter is not that old, Golston and Monty are young, and with a 1st round DE we would be pretty young.

I think we need a DT worse than a DE but, its debatable.

My comments about no pass-rush were obviousluy towards the D, while most of my age-oriented comments were really towards the O-line, where we have the most trouble. I agree that Monty and Golston make our line younger, but I'd argue that we need a dominant DT capable of collapsing the pocket more than a DE. Otherwise, the DE is useless, because the QB always has somewhere clear to step up into and throw, getting away from the DE who has to run around...

[Chiefinonhaze]

I think we need a DT worse than a DE but, its debatable.

My comments about no pass-rush were obviousluy towards the D, while most of my age-oriented comments were really towards the O-line, where we have the most trouble. I agree that Monty and Golston make our line younger, but I'd argue that we need a dominant DT capable of collapsing the pocket more than a DE. Otherwise, the DE is useless, because the QB always has somewhere clear to step up into and throw, getting away from the DE who has to run around...

Yes the O-line could be better, but you can't expect Vinny to use a 1st rounder on it when we had Samuels, Jansen and Thomas. Those were three solid lineman going into the season, but we all know now that Jansen is done. The O-Line played well at the end of last season, so I see why he didn't address it with a lot of emphasis.

Vinny is just human. He makes mistakes. But he has brought us a lot of good players through the draft. He may have drafted a future HOF Safety in Sean. He isn't the best like I said, but he doesn't deserve the complete hatred some of these guys give him.

[Conn]

Yes the O-line could be better, but you can't expect Vinny to use a 1st rounder on it when we had Samuels, Jansen and Thomas. Those were three solid lineman going into the season, but we all know now that Jansen is done. The O-Line played well at the end of last season, so I see why he didn't address it with a lot of emphasis.

Vinny is just human. He makes mistakes. But he has brought us a lot of good players through the draft. He may have drafted a future HOF Safety in Sean. He isn't the best like I said, but he doesn't deserve the complete hatred some of these guys give him.

I agree he isn't the worst, or the best. I don't hate him. Doesn't mean I can't expect more competence.

But you're argument is still flawed, and its the same argument that has us in the situation we're in now!

YES, I can expect the FO to spend high (1 and 2) draft picks on the oline at least a couple of times over the past DECADE. That is how good teams operate!! When you wait until your starters are all aging and on the downslope at the same time before you bring in and progress young talent, you get the situation we are in now. What don't you understand about the amount of incompetence behind not spending ONE first-day draft pick on either line in a DECADE?? It is how you get the decay and inconsistancy we now have. Were we good enough in the line 3-4 years ago? Yes. Were we a little worse 2 years ago? Yes. Were we even worse last year? Yes. Was it EVER addressed until it will hopefully be this offseason? NO. That is not understandable on any level. I'm not putting it all on Vinny's shoulders, thats not right or possible. I'm saying the FO is general. It is incompetant in every way.

And if you watched the playoff game against Seattle last year, when TC got rocked by SEATTLE's "pass rush", the game that should have been freshest in the FO's mind this offseason, you will know that your statement "The O-Line played well at the end of last season" is bologna.

I'm not ripping you specifically, but this line of thinking, and tolerance of such a huge level of incompetance in regards to the lines, is unnaceptable! I'm not saying there haven't been GOOD decisions, there have. I'm even optimistic about the rookie wr's. I'm saying that just because there have been some good outcomes, does not mean the FO gets a pass for such blatant refusal to support our trenches and build a winning team the CORRECT way.

[corrupt3d]

What'll be interesting is how vinny handles the current situation. We are in the situation we are in, we cannot change it.

But if he drafts a CB in the first round, rather than one of the lines, we'll see truly what he thinks.

Ugh, I guess we'll see.

[LaRonDontLikeUgly]

He's pretty bad.

And if you think that he's not bad because someone else in the organization is swaying his decisions or flat-out making them for him... well, I would say that makes him even WORSE in my eyes.

If anyone (including Snyder himself) had any faith in Vinny, they would leave him alone and let him do his thing. Cerrato is a SUCKER for big name players. Even with the draft, he grabbed guys like "Fred Davis" who he only had met with by phone and probably just heard he was good. "Tryon!" probably would have gone in the 7th if we hadnt grabbed him. Nope,, here's a 4th! Malcolm Kelly... he was great in college, so let's ignore what EVERYONE has said ab his knee injuries. Colt Brennan... Showed up at the combine fat and threw the slowest ball of alll the other QBs.... EVERYONE says his mechanics are horrendous... but let's make a deal! Durant Brooks... ok, I made my point---DO SOME REAL SCOUTING, CERRATO.

Hip, Hip, Horay for Vinny...

I bet Portis thinks he's a genius, too.

[Chiefinonhaze]

I agree he isn't the worst, or the best. I don't hate him. Doesn't mean I can't expect more competence.

But you're argument is still flawed, and its the same argument that has us in the situation we're in now!

YES, I can expect the FO to spend high (1 and 2) draft picks on the oline at least a couple of times over the past DECADE. That is how good teams operate!! When you wait until your starters are all aging and on the downslope at the same time before you bring in and progress young talent, you get the situation we are in now. What don't you understand about the amount of incompetence behind not spending ONE first-day draft pick on either line in a DECADE?? It is how you get the decay and inconsistancy we now have. Were we good enough in the line 3-4 years ago? Yes. Were we a little worse 2 years ago? Yes. Were we even worse last year? Yes. Was it EVER addressed until it will hopefully be this offseason? NO. That is not understandable on any level. I'm not putting it all on Vinny's shoulders, thats not right or possible. I'm saying the FO is general. It is incompetant in every way.

And if you watched the playoff game against Seattle last year, when TC got rocked by SEATTLE's "pass rush", the game that should have been freshest in the FO's mind this offseason, you will know that your statement "The O-Line played well at the end of last season" is bologna.

I'm not ripping you specifically, but this line of thinking, and tolerance of such a huge level of incompetance in regards to the lines, is unnaceptable! I'm not saying there haven't been GOOD decisions, there have. I'm even optimistic about the rookie wr's. I'm saying that just because there have been some good outcomes, does not mean the FO gets a pass for such blatant refusal to support our trenches and build a winning team the CORRECT way.

Your agument is flawed as well. You say we are old. That is a generalization. Skill Players on offense: Campbell 26, Portis 27, Cooley 25, Moss 29, Randel El 28, Thomas and Kelly(rookies), Fred Davis. That is a solid core IMO. If either one of Thomas or Kelly pan out, we are set as far as skill positions go. The area in which we are old is the O-line. We can recontrust that line by next year or in two years. Our Skill players will still be young.

Defensively, we have two solid young corners in Hall and Rogers. Rogers ins a top 5 corner IMO. We have Fletchers replacement in Blades. Two Young safeties in Landry and Horton. Carter, Golston, and Montgomery are young. Mcinstosh is Still young. With a 1st round D-lineman, and maybe another linebacker through draft/FA we are going to be a good Defense again.

Again, you are not looking at the situation clearly. We are old as hell in some positions, but young in most. A few good moves this offseason can make us a playoff team next year, IF Campbell pans out.

[Chiefinonhaze]

He's pretty bad.

And if you think that he's not bad because someone else in the organization is swaying his decisions or flat-out making them for him... well, I would say that makes him even WORSE in my eyes.

If anyone (including Snyder himself) had any faith in Vinny, they would leave him alone and let him do his thing. Cerrato is a SUCKER for big name players. Even with the draft, he grabbed guys like "Fred Davis" who he only had met with by phone and probably just heard he was good. "Tryon!" probably would have gone in the 7th if we hadnt grabbed him. Nope,, here's a 4th! Malcolm Kelly... he was great in college, so let's ignore what EVERYONE has said ab his knee injuries. Colt Brennan... Showed up at the combine fat and threw the slowest ball of alll the other QBs.... EVERYONE says his mechanics are horrendous... but let's make a deal! Durant Brooks... ok, I made my point---DO SOME REAL SCOUTING, CERRATO.

Hip, Hip, Horay for Vinny...

I bet Portis thinks he's a genius, too.

You cite examples of this years rookie class???:doh:

That is a weak argument. You do not give a rookie class less than one season to evaluate. Vinny has found some late round gems the past few years. He simply is NOT THAT BAD. You people make no sense. What exactly do you call incompetent?????

We have made playoffs 2 out of last three years and are in the race once again. The argument that we are not good is stupid. We are a GOOD team. Not great, but GOOD. Vinny has drafted some great players in the past few seasons, if you read the OP. We are a little old on the lines, but nothing a few 1st round picks can't fix.

[Conn]

Your agument is flawed as well. You say we are old. That is a generalization. Skill Players on offense: Campbell 26, Portis 27, Cooley 25, Moss 29, Randel El 28, Thomas and Kelly(rookies), Fred Davis. That is a solid core IMO. If either one of Thomas or Kelly pan out, we are set as far as skill positions go. The area in which we are old is the O-line. We can recontrust that line by next year or in two years. Our Skill players will still be young.

Defensively, we have two solid young corners in Hall and Rogers. Rogers ins a top 5 corner IMO. We have Fletchers replacement in Blades. Two Young safeties in Landry and Horton. Carter, Golston, and Montgomery are young. Mcinstosh is Still young. With a 1st round D-lineman, and maybe another linebacker through draft/FA we are going to be a good Defense again.

Again, you are not looking at the situation clearly. We are old as hell in some positions, but young in most. A few good moves this offseason can make us a playoff team next year, IF Campbell pans out.

I agree about the rest of our team! I'm talking about the line! I never ONCE mentioned any other positions in my entire post, whose logic and football-sense you chose to ignore to support your own point that has nothing to do with why the FO is criticized, the LINES.

We wouldn't have to wait, as you say, one or two years, to RECONSTRUCT a line which, with a competent FO, wouldn't NEED reconstructing. Good teams with smart FO's have young depth ready to go to fill a position, especially such an important position as linemen, because they have not only drafted wisely, but have built their trenches, the foundation of every team, correctly. It doesn't take alot of smarts to know how football works, and with that little bit of thought and some scouting, our lines would never be in a constant state of near-crisis because of age and injury. THAT is my point. You don't understand why Vinny (aka the FO) is so "hated". I'm telling you. And when this thread gets perused later today by the crazies who aren't up at 4 am like us, I can tell you what you'll find: that my argument is the majority, and that NO ONE else thinks its ok or understandable to have neglected our lines for so long.

[Conn]

You cite examples of this years rookie class???:doh:

That is a weak argument. You do not give a rookie class less than one season to evaluate. Vinny has found some late round gems the past few years. He simply is NOT THAT BAD. You people make no sense. What exactly do you call incompetent?????

We have made playoffs 2 out of last three years and are in the race once again. The argument that we are not good is stupid. We are a GOOD team. Not great, but GOOD. Vinny has drafted some great players in the past few seasons, if you read the OP. We are a little old on the lines, but nothing a few 1st round picks can't fix.

You're missing his point. His point, which he happened to use this years draft to back up, is that our FO doesn't use those 1st rounders responsibly, like they should! We trade them or spend them on glamor positions. For the last DECADE. These are the picks that should have been used in the past for lineman, so that this current situation didn't exist at all. Instead we will have to rush the process over the next season or two to scramble and make up for it.

And, there is a reason why we have not made it deep into the playoffs. Without young talented trenches, you don't go anywhere. Its that simple. A good line can make any defense look better than it is, and any Qb, wr, and rb look better than they are, and win championships. A decimated, aging line on both sides puts all the pressure on the skill positions and secondary, which DOESN'T work against better-built teams deeper into the playoffs. I'm a homer and optimist when looking at the present through and through on gameday, and looking ahead to gameday. But it doesn't stop me from seeing reality in the way our FO has blundered through a decades worth of offseasons.

[scruffylookin]

I'll agree that Vinny is not the sole person to blame and perhaps not even the main person.

I hold Gibbs responsible (since he was President) for the sorry state of our lines moreso than Vinny.

Gibbs is the one who bought into winning now and never seemed to have a long term vision. Every move seemed to be about now (exception being Jason Campbell). Remember how he wanted to get the Redskins back on track and to have the entire organization working well. Of course that didn't last long with the whole coaching search fiasco from early this year.

So my finger of condemnation is more pointed at Dan Snyder and Joe Gibbs but having said that, Vinny's resume is pathetic. When he was out of work during the Marty year, not a single team was interested in him. He had to do TV work.

The problem with Vinny is the perception that he's a Snyder crony and that is the only reason why he has the job that he does. Nothing in his history can be cited as a reason why he should be in charge of the personnel department of an NFL team.

Also, it's a mighty low bar if "at least we made the playoffs in 2 of the last 3 (so to be 4) seasons" is somehow now a selling point. I wouldn't crow about that.

Last point, I sure feel really good about the guy in charge of building my football team that the best thing one can say about him is that "he's not that bad" or "he's not the best but he's not the worst either". Inspires confidence doesn't it.:doh:

[illone]

Guys, Vinny Cerrato has a resume, you should look it up sometime.

He is about 50/50 on skill position players, and 0 for 500 on the o/d-line. Guess who the GM was when the Skins drafted Samuels? Yep, NOT VINNY.

It's funny, too, because he worked for the 9ers before he was a Skin, and watched them draft Dana Stublefield, Ted Washington, and Bryant Young.

I guess he wasn't taking notes.

[andyburd]

How good would it have been to have Shawn Merriman?

I like CR and everything, but a game changer like SM would be tremendous

[Dead Money]

Vinnie? Is that you? His draft record sucks and the only reason you think that Golston and Monty were steals is because our line is THAT horrible. If we had any push up the middle the DE's would have a shot.

Dline, linebacker depth or lack thereof, Lloyd, Randle El (for the $$), E. James, J. Taylor, 16 safeties, Oline depth or lack thereof and Fred freaking Davis combined tells the story. And the story is he sucks.

[illone]

Once again, he doesn't make all of the decisions. Hell, he doesn't even have the final decision. He may have a bad track record I don't follow him like that, but I would say he hasn't done bad for us the past 5 years.

He hasn't done bad, so just give him one more shot, is that it?

:doh:

If Vinny isn't making the final decision, then Snyder needs to hire someone who will.

The only way to really judge the guy, without knowing him personally, is to compare him against other GM's in the NFL, and how those guys get it done on paper. Ultimitely, Vinny is a bottom 10 GM in the NFL, slightly above guys like Graves, Savage, and Millen.

If you want to see a really cool GM, do some research on Bill Polian. This guy is a winner. If ever there was a person to overpay and bring here, this would be the guy. You just hand him the keys and watch the wins stack up. He wins wherever he goes, and in most cases it's fairly quickly.

In my mind, there is a reason Marty fired him. Regardless of Charger fan opinion of the guy, he is way more respected in the NFL than say Vinny Cerrato.

[fansince62]

Yes he hasn't put emphasis on the trenches, but he is not the only one calling the shots. He may not have felt the need to build the O-line because we had three above average and one of them being a probowler offensive line.

You cannot expect him to use a first rounder on a o-linemen when we had proven veterans.

As far as the D-line, we have good d-lineman for our system. Our system requires guys that can stop the run, and Phillip Daniels was a large part of that. Do you forget Anthony Montgomery and Kedric Golston? Those are two late round steals on the D-line....

Once again, he doesn't make all of the decisions. Hell, he doesn't even have the final decision. He may have a bad track record I don't follow him like that, but I would say he hasn't done bad for us the past 5 years.

uggg...this conversation has been going on for years. this past draft....we knew we had an injury prone right tckle on the decline, we knew the center was capable but undersized and overmatched against big/quick nose tackles/DTs, we knew the left guard is at the end, we knew the right guard had sustained injuries for severasl seasons, we knew Fabinni is ok but not a long haul back-up, we knew Hyer is a decent back-up but not starting material. in short....we knew we have been having problems keeping the o-line in tact for years. so what do we do? draft one linemen in the higher rorunds who never sees the light of day. and here we are...injury riddled.....with few options and a QB whose back sees the ground more often than a hooker on a busy day.

[Chump Bailey]

Compared to whom - Matt Millen?

We'll see. We have to wait to see what transpires with our rookies. I think he made some mistakes. I think the Virginia Tech OT would have been worthy of a first round selection. So be it...

I still think the vast majority of teams have more capable people with regard to personnel decisions and team building in general.

[remarkable62]

Yes he hasn't put emphasis on the trenches, but he is not the only one calling the shots. He may not have felt the need to build the O-line because we had three above average and one of them being a probowler offensive line.

You cannot expect him to use a first rounder on a o-linemen when we had proven veterans.

As far as the D-line, we have good d-lineman for our system. Our system requires guys that can stop the run, and Phillip Daniels was a large part of that. Do you forget Anthony Montgomery and Kedric Golston? Those are two late round steals on the D-line....

Once again, he doesn't make all of the decisions..

Cant have it both way's vinny er I mean chief. First you try to compliment him on his picks, then on the bad stuff you say he dosent have the final say.

[IbleedBnG83]

I don't think we can judge a draft after just a year. Vinny obviously hit a gem in Chris Horton. Kareem Moore has had nothing but rave reviews from coaches and is doing well in special teams and was a sixth round pick. Tryon, a fourth round pick, still has time to earn his stripes. Brooks didn't work out, but who cares, he was a sixth round pick. Thomas/Kelly/Davis, these are all obviously talented kids. Give them time in the system that the rest of the vets obviously are needing time to adjust to aswell. Everyone seems to be pleased with Rinehart by all reports. Oh yeah, and we've got a nice prospect at QB should the Jason Campbell experiment not work found in the late round. I'm not too down on him from a talent point of view, just didn't think about how old are OL and how much our DL has sucked.