Thoughts Paradigm: Educating America's Youth

[Thinking Skins]

http://thoughtsparadigm.blogspot.com/2008/11/educating-americas-youth.html

As inspired as I am by Obama, I truly feel that most of the work needed in addressing the education systems in America (particularly public school education, but also education in college classes) relies on the shoulders of the teachers and administrators.

I'm a child of hip hop, and I can't say how much hip hop has changed my life. But I'm also a child of things like Microsoft, cable TV, video games and a host of other things that completely changed the way of life in the 1980s and 1990s. But one place that I feel that the way of life hasn't changed is in the classrooms. How is it that we have CNN doing a Star Trek like interview with Will-I-Am, but the education system thinks that the only way to reach students is with 19th century type speeches?

As educators, we are competing with other industries for these child's minds. We are treating education as a system where information is pushed on the backs of the students and then get upset when they can't (or refuse to) carry the load. I feel like the opposite needs to be happening. Just like we can create games like EA Sports's Madden NFL Football to have kids of all ages learning the intricate details of football, we can create (and have created) games to help understand history, mathematics, science and a host of other subjects that are important to the development of these children.

But the job is on us as teachers and educators to stop thinking inside such a closed box of "well, if I learned it this way, so can my students". We need to find more ways of making these things not only 'cool', but beautiful. They are beautiful things - particularly math. But we've got to find ways to reveal their beauty.

Maybe its writing songs to help them memorize rules of math and science. Maybe its creating games to study history. Maybe its teaching them to ask questions that inspire creative thinking, and not criticizing 'wrong' answers. There are endless possiblities that we can take this. But I truly feel that the education system won't change until we as educators understand that the job of educating our youth does not belong to some text book or lab experiment, but to us as educators. And if they are not getting our message, then we need to find a new way to deliver that message.

I'm out.

[81artmonk]

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I truly feel that most of the work needed in addressing the education systems in America (particularly public school education, but also education in college classes) relies on the shoulders of the teachers and administrators.

This is where you are very wrong. My wife is a teacher and I volunteer at her school and as a basketball coach. So I've seen and experienced first hand.

The problem #1 is too much regulation. Ie. too many things expected of teachers which limit class time and how much they can get accomplished. It's liken to govt. too much red tape with little accomplished.

Problem #2, is parents. My wife has kids who do nothing even when pushed and hounded. Parents do nothing and expect the teachers to fill in where they aren't doing thier job.

So the kid doesn't do anything, the parents enforce that behavior and teachers are expected to work against that?? I couldn't read. The schools didn't have enough time to commit to me as a student to help me. So my mom tutored me everyday, until I brought my scores up and ended up reading better than most of my classmates.

How many parents do you think would do that today. From what I've seen and heard, if we are lucky, maybe 10% of parents out of a class of 34 kids will get that kind of help at home. The rest will be left to flounder by the way side.

The sadding truth is in California, the class size is around 35 kids and growing every year. WIth as much testing is needed to be tought to, and the time constraints, teachers just don't have the time or resources to help every kid.

In a way it's kinda like college. You sink or swim without any help.

Parents, (most, not all) see school as a big babysitters. I send my kid there, you teach him and than send him/her home. They don't see the symbiotic relationship between teacher and parent.

Honestly, I don't care how much money you throw at the system, it will never get better until you let teachers teach without so many requirements,and when parents become part of thier childs education.

#3, schools need to get away from the notion that this way is the best way. Democrats have run the system and look where it is. The govt needs to look at things as, anything that might work is fair game.

As it stands now, they are stuck in thier ways and anything outside of what is being done now (and has been for decades) is the ONLY way.

That attitude can only hamper the progress and success of our education system.

[PokerPacker]

step one in fixing education: eliminate the Department of Education.

[SkinsOrlando]

step one in fixing education: eliminate the Department of Education.

And the teachers unions next

[Thinking Skins]

81artmonk, I don't disagree with anything you've said. I just place priorities in a different place. We're working with a broken system that doesn't realize the errors of its own ways, with parents who don't attend PTA meetings, with uninspired students who would rather sit and watch TV.

But I compare it to the NFL. They say that on every play, somebody could be called for holding. Obviously holding isn't called on every play, so that means that the players have to learn to play within a broken system where they're going to be at a disadvantage. I'm not calling for people not to work to change the current system, but we've also got to learn to work with what we have because if we don't, another generation will fall through the cracks while we sit and wait for change.

So I'm saying that the teachers who see that their message isn't reaching their students need to stop saying that "his parents need to make him do his homework" or "she just doesn't listen" or "they won't give me enough money" and actually find more creative ways to do their jobs.

I'm big on games, and I've created several games to help my students learn advanced math classes. I'm also a visual person. So I'll often draw pictures to illustrate many of the word problems that are presented in texts. I even look at what some other people have done. Nas (a rapper) has made three songs about the lives of people he respects (Rakim, Mike Tyson, and Louis Farakahn). While I don't put those three people on the same level, the fact that I heard the song (to a beat) kinda makes me remember certain things about them. I could say the same thing about Will-I-Am and the "Yes We Can" video he did on youtube. Now me, and several of my students can recite that Barack Obama speech because of the creativity of Will-I-Am.

Just like a person who's been laid off has to find a creative way to feed their family on a budgeted income, we as an academic community need to do the same with our students. I just feel like its not enough to say "the system is broken, so I can't do my job". If the system is broken, either we should seek a new job or we should find ways to work within the system while at the same time working to change it.

[Thinking Skins]

What happened to science projects, and history projects? I know we can't do a project on every individual scientific or historic achievement, but just doing a few of these can show them how beautiful these things really are.

What about actually asking the students what they like and are interested in, and building examples around these things to generate interest in not only the material at hand, but showing how it connects to things they like.

[PeterMP]

The problem is actually effeciency. Madden might teach kids the rules of the NFL, but does it do it in an effecient manner?

I doubt it.

In fact, what Madden most likely teaches most effeciently is things directly related to playing the game (e.g. how to use the controller). The samething would happen w/ respect to education games. What people would learn is things related to how to do well in the game not the things the game was trying to teach.

It's no different then the issues w/ standardized tests. Schools that want to do better on standardized tests spend a great deal of time teaching how to take tests rather than the information that will be on the test because it's the easiest/fastest way to improve scores.

Games best teach the mechanisms behind playing the game- not information inherent in the game.

[TheGoodBits]

2 step solution to education:

1. Eliminate NCLB and teaching to the test.

2. Double teachers salaries. More people will want to be teachers, more supply of teachers available to pick from, and only the best teachers will actually be able to find a job. (also included in this is a provision that pays teachers more for working in some of the lowsy schools)

[Thinking Skins]

The problem is actually effeciency. Madden might teach kids the rules of the NFL, but does it do it in an effecient manner?

I doubt it.

In fact, what Madden most likely teaches most effeciently is things directly related to playing the game (e.g. how to use the controller). The samething would happen w/ respect to education games. What people would learn is things related to how to do well in the game not the things the game was trying to teach.

It's no different then the issues w/ standardized tests. Schools that want to do better on standardized tests spend a great deal of time teaching how to take tests rather than the information that will be on the test because it's the easiest/fastest way to improve scores.

Games best teach the mechanisms behind playing the game- not information inherent in the game.

I disagree. While its true that people do learn to cheat games, I would never have learned the entire roster of every NFL team back in the 1999 season had it not been for Madden. Thats all I'm saying. And the more fun the game is, and the more it relates to the different interests of students, the more likely they will pick up a book or be more inclined to like that area after the game is played.

But I'm not saying that games are the only solution. I'm advertising for creativity on all levels. If you know how to write poems, why not try delivering one of your lectures in a poem, or at least give them a handout of the poem? Or you could just ask them to try to find a creative way to teach the same lesson.

The possibilities are endless. We just need to open up the doors and realize that there are possibilities outside of the standard means of teaching.

[Thinking Skins]

2 step solution to education:

1. Eliminate NCLB and teaching to the test.

2. Double teachers salaries. More people will want to be teachers, more supply of teachers available to pick from, and only the best teachers will actually be able to find a job. (also included in this is a provision that pays teachers more for working in some of the lowsy schools)

I don't know enough about NCLB to comment on it. But the thing about doubling teachers salaries is that its a supply and demand thing. Right now, there are a number of people who 'could' teach a class. By that I mean, they have all the qualifications. So as a result they don't get paid too much because the demand outweighs the supply.

But if we wanted to change the requirements of what it takes to be a teacher, then we'd be seeing massive complications from the teachers unions and massive uproar from communities who are upset at us for getting rid of 30 year teachers who don't have certain 'documents' but are good teachers.

Obama and Fenty have both talked about taking on teachers unions so we may see the higher salaries come at an expense.

[gbear]

It's interesting to me as I teach my 3 year old how to count I think about the rest of the education system. So much of it is memorization at this point with little problem solving.

We had a speech therapist over at our house (for my other kid) yesterday who was surprised that I was teaching her by adding things to her hand and asking her how many she had...and asking again when I took one away. I told the therapist that she hears counting every day the same way she hears the alphabet. We sing it as we give time release breathing meds (inhaler for my 2 year old son). Beyond that, I was trying to associate meaning with the words she hears all the time. She said that was good technique and asked what made me do it.

Thiking about that conversation made me think that one of the problems I see when I talk to teenagers is how the class room has become ever more about memorization instead of figuring things out. The meaning behind what is memorized is being clouded. In highschool, we did all kind of physics labs. We memorized the acceleration due to gravity, but we also timed things dropping to see how close we could predict landings. In a lot of ways the memorization is replacing the using. For as long as I can, I'm going to try and make sure my kids have practical uses for what they are learning. Maybe that will take creativity and time on my part, but I'm ok with that. I figure if my kids can think of similar practical experiences maybe they'll be better able to figure out the answer on the standardized tests. I can hope.

[Thinking Skins]

Thiking about that conversation made me think that one of the problems I see when I talk to teenagers is how the class room has become ever more about memorization instead of figuring things out. The meaning behind what is memorized is being clouded. In highschool, we did all kind of physics labs. We memorized the acceleration due to gravity, but we also timed things dropping to see how close we could predict landings. In a lot of ways the memorization is replacing the using. For as long as I can, I'm going to try and make sure my kids have practical uses for what they are learning. Maybe that will take creativity and time on my part, but I'm ok with that. I figure if my kids can think of similar practical experiences maybe they'll be better able to figure out the answer on the standardized tests. I can hope.

See, this is the one thing that I'm trying to bring back to the classrooms - the idea of critical thinking. Not just memorize the facts about the founding of the united states, but to actually question why the articles of confederation failed; not just to memorize the pythagorean theorem, or how to solve a system of equations, but what actually inspired somebody to ask these questions; not just memorizing 20 vocabulary words every week, but actually questioning how these words relate to words they already know.

[gbear]

Thinking Skins,

on the vocab front, while a waiter in a Rib joint we had an exercise we did every night. We had a vocab word and our challenge was to try and work it into a conversation at least one table. We kept score. It lead to some strange looks as customers tried to figure out why we had just said what we said and sometimes wonderment at what we had said, but it was fun. I keep thinking that when my kids start having vocab words I want to play that game with them and try to make them use each of the words in a sentence during the day. Then if they can repeat the context of the sentence back later that day/night, that's a point. I often wonder if that helped the girls GRE scores. Granted sometimes we just did silly words like "broohahha" but other times it was your standard words like "hypothesis." The mixture of silly with more dificult (to get into a conversation as a waiter) made the game. Of course recounting the weird looks with others trying to score points was fun too.

[PeterMP]

I disagree. While its true that people do learn to cheat games, I would never have learned the entire roster of every NFL team back in the 1999 season had it not been for Madden. Thats all I'm saying. And the more fun the game is, and the more it relates to the different interests of students, the more likely they will pick up a book or be more inclined to like that area after the game is played.

But I'm not saying that games are the only solution. I'm advertising for creativity on all levels. If you know how to write poems, why not try delivering one of your lectures in a poem, or at least give them a handout of the poem? Or you could just ask them to try to find a creative way to teach the same lesson.

The possibilities are endless. We just need to open up the doors and realize that there are possibilities outside of the standard means of teaching.

Well, I wouldn't consider it cheating. Knowing how to use the controller to play a game is a part of being good at the game- not cheating, and you've misrepresented my original point. Sure there would be learning, but is it in fact in an effecient manner.

Could you have learned the rosters of all the teams in 1999 more effeciently using means other than Madden? The obvious ansnwer is yes, because you not only learned them, but you learned all sorts of other things unrelated to the rosters, including the optimal way to use the controllers.

In fact, I'll bet learning the rosters was one of the LAST things you did. I'll bet you were well aware of all of the functions on the controller well before you were memorizing rosters.

[Prosperity]

Well, I wouldn't consider it cheating. Knowing how to use the controller to play a game is a part of being good at the game- not cheating, and you've misrepresented my original point. Sure there would be learning, but is it in fact in an efficient manner.

Could you have learned the rosters of all the teams in 1999 more efficiently using means other than Madden? The obvious answer is yes, because you not only learned them, but you learned all sorts of other things unrelated to the rosters, including the optimal way to use the controllers.

In fact, I'll bet learning the rosters was one of the LAST things you did. I'll bet you were well aware of all of the functions on the controller well before you were memorizing rosters.

just because the roster was one of the last things learned DOES NOT mean that there are better ways to learn it. A game like Madden may teach you many things more efficiently than the roster or the rules, but the fact that it is more efficient at other things does not mean that it is not the most efficient at something else.

I'd say some things can't be taught efficiently for the most part... NFL rosters are an example... a list of similar names is not an efficient thing to learn, takes a long time and there is no thinking involved.

Our educational system needs to teach facts, as well as reasoning skills. Some facts will probably be more efficiently taught, in the sense that 1. they don't require too much time 2. they are valuable knowledge 3. the process to that knowledge increases a child's reasoning ability.

so the way to teach efficiently ought to utilize those 3 factors in the best way possible

====

standardized tests like the SOL's in VA suck because they require a lot of time (teaching to the test) and very little reasoning ability, though the facts are fairly important. I say loosen up the regulations, ease off the standardized tests, and let teachers teach. As long as they can write and reason well they will be productive in society. (Either going to a trade school, or college, or directly to the work force)

[PeterMP]

just because the roster was one of the last things learned DOES NOT mean that there are better ways to learn it. A game like Madden may teach you many things more efficiently than the roster or the rules, but the fact that it is more efficient at other things does not mean that it is not the most efficient at something else.

I'd say some things can't be taught efficiently for the most part... NFL rosters are an example... a list of similar names is not an efficient thing to learn, takes a long time and there is no thinking involved.

Our educational system needs to teach facts, as well as reasoning skills. Some facts will probably be more efficiently taught, in the sense that 1. they don't require too much time 2. they are valuable knowledge 3. the process to that knowledge increases a child's reasoning ability.

You really think the most effecient way to learn NFL rosters is via playing Madden?

Anyway at its most basic level, you are wrong. No single process can be optimally effecient at producing different results. Any time devoted to learning anything else is time not spent on the task at hand. Remember, in this case, we aren't talking about a different route to the same end result. Even via Madden, in the end, you have to memorize them.

For different people, there might be different methods that are more effecient. Some people might do best by writing them. Some people might do better with some sort of visual context (e.g. associate the name w/ a face via a picture), but that's never going to include learning information disconnected from the roster.

[Thinking Skins]

You really think the most effecient way to learn NFL rosters is via playing Madden?

Anyway at its most basic level, you are wrong. No single process can be optimally effecient at producing different results. Any time devoted to learning anything else is time not spent on the task at hand. Remember, in this case, we aren't talking about a different route to the same end result. Even via Madden, in the end, you have to memorize them.

For different people, there might be different methods that are more effecient. Some people might do best by writing them. Some people might do better with some sort of visual context (e.g. associate the name w/ a face via a picture), but that's never going to include learning information disconnected from the roster.

I've gotta agree with Liberty on this one. Maybe I'm only speaking for myself, but who wants to sit in front of a sheet of paper memorizing names?

But when I played (as the Norv Turner Redskins) against every other team in the league (and put in substitutes so as to ensure I'd win), the net effect wasn't just me going through every season with an undefeated record, it was also me getting so comfortable with these roster that I could recite them when I was just bored on the train.

And remember, I just used Madden as an example. I'm not saying that games are the only or the ULTIMATE way to teach people - just that we need to open up our creative minds to find ways to connect with people who aren't learning through the normal lecture series.

[PeterMP]

Our educational system needs to teach facts, as well as reasoning skills. Some facts will probably be more efficiently taught, in the sense that 1. they don't require too much time 2. they are valuable knowledge 3. the process to that knowledge increases a child's reasoning ability.

so the way to teach efficiently ought to utilize those 3 factors in the best way possible

I agree, but to assume (or argue) that the most effecient manner includes learning the use of a game controller isn't realistic.

One big problem (which I alluded to before) is what is most effecient for one person won't be for another. How you address that issue isn't clear.

[Prosperity]

You really think the most effecient way to learn NFL rosters is via playing Madden?

it is probably the most efficient way to teach it TSF

Anyway at its most basic level, you are wrong. No single process can be optimally effecient at producing different results. Any time devoted to learning anything else is time not spent on the task at hand. Remember, in this case, we aren't talking about a different route to the same end result. Even via Madden, in the end, you have to memorize them.

hmmmm maybe

For different people, there might be different methods that are more effecient. Some people might do best by writing them. Some people might do better with some sort of visual context (e.g. associate the name w/ a face via a picture), but that's never going to include learning information disconnected from the roster.

First of all, the information is not "disconnected from the roster" the information is integrated with the roster and thus will give the roster information itself much more significance. I remembered the roster on Madden much longer than I remembered state capitals... why was that? Take Laverneus Coles he was more than just Laverneus Coles on the Washington Redskins, he was my best wide out, the nfl leader in receiving, a guy with 90+ speed... etc

[Prosperity]

I agree, but to assume (or argue) that the most effecient manner includes learning the use of a game controller isn't realistic.

well not most efficient, probably not, but according to my experience I have learned more about Ancient civilizations playing Age of Empires than I did in my world history class in High school.

there are probably better ways, but that doesn't mean that it isn't better than the status quo in certain areas for a lot of people.

One big problem (which I alluded to before) is what is most effecient for one person won't be for another. How you address that issue isn't clear.

how any of us address this issue isn't clear... I don't know there are some options

divide the classes based on learning style

find the lowest common denominator and work from there

teach using different styles... and one of them is bound to work.

[SnyderShrugged]

I disagree that "most of the work needed in addressing the education systems in America (particularly public school education, but also education in college classes) relies on the shoulders of the teachers and administrators."

Honestly, I think its parents who hold ownership of their childs education. Education is a whole life experience and the public ed system is woefully inept at the big picture.

[PeterMP]

I've gotta agree with Liberty on this one. Maybe I'm only speaking for myself, but who wants to sit in front of a sheet of paper memorizing names?

But when I played (as the Norv Turner Redskins) against every other team in the league (and put in substitutes so as to ensure I'd win), the net effect wasn't just me going through every season with an undefeated record, it was also me getting so comfortable with these roster that I could recite them when I was just bored on the train.

And remember, I just used Madden as an example. I'm not saying that games are the only or the ULTIMATE way to teach people - just that we need to open up our creative minds to find ways to connect with people who aren't learning through the normal lecture series.

But that's the problem. The most effecient way to learn ISN'T going to be the student's favorite way to learn, but you're lying to yourself if you think students EVER thought school was fun.

I'm 36. I didn't think school was fun. I have siblings ranging from 40 to 30 (all of which have college degrees). None of them thought school was fun. My dad has a college degree. He'll tell you he didn't think school was fun.

It is one of these funny things to me. We are running around looking for a better way to teach (especially science and math) and when you look at the countries that are in front in terms of science and math, there have been very few changes in the way they teach over the last couple of decades.

We've changed the way we teach (going back to the 70's), and we are doing worse. Countries that haven't changed are still doing well (better than us). Instead of going back to what we were doing (and the countries that are now doing better than us now are doing) the solution is yet again reinvent the way we teach.

[Thinking Skins]

But that's the problem. The most effecient way to learn ISN'T going to be the student's favorite way to learn, but you're lying to yourself if you think students EVER thought school was fun.

I'm 36. I didn't think school was fun. I have siblings ranging from 40 to 30 (all of which have college degrees). None of them thought school was fun. My dad has a college degree. He'll tell you he didn't think school was fun.

It is one of these funny things to me. We are running around looking for a better way to teach (especially science and math) and when you look at the countries that are in front in terms of science and math, there have been very few changes in the way they teach over the last couple of decades.

We've changed the way we teach (going back to the 70's), and we are doing worse. Countries that haven't changed are still doing well (better than us). Instead of going back to what we were doing (and the countries that are now doing better than us now are doing) the solution is yet again reinvent the way we teach.

I think we have different definitions of fun. I'm not saying make school into an amusement park. But more than likely one reason that you did well in school is that you found the subjects interesting. And those you weren't interested in, you probably didn't do as well. Even if its not true for you in particular, its true on a more general basis. And one of the major reasons people come to me on a daily basis and say "I HATE MATH" is because they say its just numbers and doesn't relate to anything in the real world.

But when I show them these relationships, particularly when I'm able to connect math to things they're very interested in like music or law or business, then they seem more focused and even come to my office hours and ask more about these relationships.

Again, I'm not trying to make school into one big Madden competition. Its just an example. I'm moreso saying that we need to make them interested in the subjects instead of just telling them "learn it because you need to know it"

[alexey]

Curiosity turns learning into an interesting game. It seems we ought to try and educate in a way that cultivates curiosity.

[PeterMP]

it is probably the most efficient way to teach it TSF

hmmmm maybe

First of all, the information is not "disconnected from the roster" the information is integrated with the roster and thus will give the roster information itself much more significance. I remembered the roster on Madden much longer than I remembered state capitals... why was that? Take Laverneus Coles he was more than just Laverneus Coles on the Washington Redskins, he was my best wide out, the nfl leader in receiving, a guy with 90+ speed... etc

1. The most effecient way to teach TSF is NOT via Madden. Madden is just his perferred way.

2. In the end, you are stuck teaching TSF via a method that is effecient, but not perferred (and therefore that he does not do at well at) or a way that is not effecient, but perferred. In the end, he is still going to behind other kids that will learn well (i.e. willingly) via effecient manners.

3. You remember Madden information due to the frequency with which you did/do access the information. Not due to its direct connection to other information. The ability to recall information is related to the neuronal connections, which is related to the frequency the information is needed. If you did/do try and recall/reenforce the state capitial information with the same frequency, you would know it just as well.