RonJeremy Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 First - Zorn stated that Campbell made a bad throw to Thomas. He put that on Campbell not on Thomas. Second - the 12 men in the huddle was on Portis/Betts from what I read. I understand your point about Thrash. He isn't going to hurt you out there...but is he going to help you out there? Maybe. I have attended all of the home games this season and I tend to watch the whole field during a play. I see Thomas as an elite athlete out there. You can see the power, quickness, size against the corners. I believe he can dominate at some point...but as you know, he is still not 100% on the same page as the rest of the offense. My personal opinion I would like to see him out there getting more rep's so he is a viable option later in the season. The offense is stagant right now, and I don't see Thrash making them a whole lot better. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke1867 Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 The problem is it goes way further than that one dropped pass. He has tons of penalties on his resume and he doesnt play all that much.....Zorn just doesnt trust him....along with our other rookies.....and thats actually something I like in Zorn....but he needs to give them there chances. One name: Greg Jennings. Those things will come as a rookie but it is enough punishment to make him adjust and mature as a receiver. That should not be a reason for which a highly touted receiver should not play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
luke1867 Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 First - Zorn stated that Campbell made a bad throw to Thomas. He put that on Campbell not on Thomas.Second - the 12 men in the huddle was on Portis/Betts from what I read. I understand your point about Thrash. He isn't going to hurt you out there...but is he going to help you out there? Maybe. I have attended all of the home games this season and I tend to watch the whole field during a play. I see Thomas as an elite athlete out there. You can see the power, quickness, size against the corners. I believe he can dominate at some point...but as you know, he is still not 100% on the same page as the rest of the offense. My personal opinion I would like to see him out there getting more rep's so he is a viable option later in the season. The offense is stagant right now, and I don't see Thrash making them a whole lot better. :2cents: My sentiments exactly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morpheusmeyers Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 First - Zorn stated that Campbell made a bad throw to Thomas. He put that on Campbell not on Thomas.Second - the 12 men in the huddle was on Portis/Betts from what I read. I understand your point about Thrash. He isn't going to hurt you out there...but is he going to help you out there? Maybe. I have attended all of the home games this season and I tend to watch the whole field during a play. I see Thomas as an elite athlete out there. You can see the power, quickness, size against the corners. I believe he can dominate at some point...but as you know, he is still not 100% on the same page as the rest of the offense. My personal opinion I would like to see him out there getting more rep's so he is a viable option later in the season. The offense is stagant right now, and I don't see Thrash making them a whole lot better. :2cents: Excellent points, especially the last sentence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kuraitengai Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Thrash has 7 catches for 69 yds. And he's in the game at least 80% of the time. I know, because I keep track of it. Is that enough proof for you??? no, its not. who cares how much of a percentage of time thrash is in? if you have the time to keep track of stuff like that, you should really get out more. and like jino said. how about you give us the number of mistakes thrash has made in the time he has been in versus the number of mistakes thomas has made. and even if thrash has made any, his mistake rate will be much lower than thomas since he has more playing time. just cuz you can keep track of ONE stat doesnt make you an expert in it. try looking at the overall picture. thrash has better hands. yes he is slower and older, but thomas is raw, having only played 1 year at a major football school. conveniently you didnt figure that into your 'statistical analysis'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgundyBlood_85 Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Thomas needs to be b*tchslapped and sat down on the bench for the way he carries himself... i wouldn't mind sticking him on punt returns, something he was good at. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ST is my boy Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Thomas needs to be b*tchslapped and sat down on the bench for the way he carries himself... i wouldn't mind sticking him on punt returns, something he was good at. Nice insightful post there buddy. What do you mean the way he carries himself??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AzSkinsFan63 Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Thrash Should be released and we should pull up someone from the practice squad that can actually get open and we can use.. I'd rather lose with Thomas getting experience than with a 34 year experienced slow receiver Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgundyBlood_85 Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Nice insightful post there buddy. What do you mean the way he carries himself??? do you watch him after plays when he either misses the pass, runs the wrong route or gets called for a penalty? he walks back to the huddle like nothing happened, like he doesn't even have a sense of realizing he needs to get his head in the game. that's the main reason why our special teams coach wants him off special teams, because he's half hearted and doesn't seem to wanna help the team. rumors are that he's a selfish player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rukahs Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Thomas, and Kelly to an extent(although he's been hurt) have been disappointing to this point when you have Desean Jackson(probably the best WR out of the class thusfar) Eddie Royal and Donnie Avery making solid contributions. Frustrating that all the talent they(Thomas/Kelly) have is stagnating on the bench while Thrash gets the reps. Even more frustrating that it's a mental over a physical thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Thomas needs to be b*tchslapped and sat down on the bench for the way he carries himself... i wouldn't mind sticking him on punt returns, something he was good at. Thomas returned kickoffs in College not punts. The way he carries himself:doh: What is that supposed to mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgundyBlood_85 Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Thomas returned kickoffs in College not punts. The way he carries himself:doh: What is that supposed to mean? he also returned punts and for the answer to the other question read above... its in the thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartinC Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 he also returned punts and for the answer to the other question read above... its in the thread I posted before you answered the question - dont agree with your answer but thats fine. Re the ount returning he returned a grand total of 8 punts in College if the stats on ESPN are to be believed with a long of 18 yards. He was however the primary kick returner his last year with 39 returns and a long of 79 yards. Lets not argue semantics but Thomas was not a punt returner in College. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgundyBlood_85 Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 I posted before you answered the question - dont agree with your answer but thats fine.Re the ount returning he returned a grand total of 8 punts in College if the stats on ESPN are to be believed with a long of 18 yards. He was however the primary kick returner his last year with 39 returns and a long of 79 yards. Lets not argue semantics but Thomas was not a punt returner in College. okay Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gibbs Hog Heaven Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Thrash has 7 catches for 69 yds. And he's in the game at least 80% of the time. I know, because I keep track of it. Is that enough proof for you??? Just out of pure curiosity, seeing as you "keep a track" of Thrash's stats, exactly how many times has he actually been thrown to this year? I appreciate the 80% of playing time, as you say. Makes sense, he's the #3 receiver and all, and there's also been the playing time Moss has missed. But how many times have we actually targeted him this year above and beyond the 7 catches he has? I'm guessing not too many, but I'd be real interested to know. (In fact throw in the amount Thomas has been targeted also, and his season stats. It'd be an interesting comparison as to the theme of the thread.). Hail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barzy68 Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 Just out of pure curiosity, seeing as you "keep a track" of Thrash's stats, exactly how many times has he actually been thrown to this year?I appreciate the 80% of playing time, as you say. Makes sense, he's the #3 receiver and all, and there's also been the playing time Moss has missed. But how many times have we actually targeted him this year above and beyond the 7 catches he has? I'm guessing not too many, but I'd be real interested to know. (In fact throw in the amount Thomas has been targeted also, and his season stats. It'd be an interesting comparison as to the theme of the thread.). Hail. You're helping make the point here. The guys been playing a lot, is the supposed "number 3" receiver, and he only has 7 catches! You know why, because he can't get open! That's also why he doesn't have many targets. Just to put this into perspective, Ladell Betts has missed 3 games, doesn't play as often as Thrash, and has 1 more reception than our "number 3" receiver. I'm not saying Thomas is the answer, because I don't think he is. To me, this one falls on the FO for going into the season with 2 rookie WRs, Moss, Randle El, and Thrash, and assuming they were going to get sufficient production out of anyone other than Moss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HBnotBlades Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 I agree that Thrash would be the safer choice, but our offense isn't being held back by one or two penalties per game, it's much deeper than that. I love Thrash, but I don't think having him in the game is going to push us from 10 points to 20 points. It's just more of the status quo. If Thomas starts putting some plays together it could an enormous boost for the offense and I think that's a risk we have to take. He's creating separation, he just needs more time to develop trust with JC and Zorn. Zorn already stated the 12 men penalty wasn't on Thomas and he's had 6 catches in the last two games with a couple big first downs. He looks close to turning the corner, we can't just pull the plug on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LoudMouth12thMan Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 It's obvious that you don't have a clue what you are talking about.. I suggest you skulk back into the shadows and think twice before opening your mouth again making yourself look like a jack ass. I hate to call you out bro' but Thrash is a special teamer and a 5th wideout at best. On any other team, he'd never see the field. He may play for teams like Baltimore, KC, or Chicago but I can't see him seeing the field as a 3rd wideout for teams with a good passing game. Wait, we don't have a good passing game :paranoid: Seriously though, when comparing him to any number of slot guys throughout the league, Thrash is not the prototypical slot guy nor is he a starting X or Z guy either. We have two prototypical slot receivers starting at the X and Z positions and no true Y receiver starting in Nickel situations. We often place El in the slot and line up Thrash at the Z or X position b/c we don't have a true #2 receiver. The fact is, Zorn and co. knew that our wide receiving core post '07 was not balanced with three strong X, Z, and Y guys who were built for each of their positions, respectively. Thus, we drafted Kelly and Thomas. I know from listening to Zorn's pressers that one of two things was going to happen. One was that either Kelly or Thomas would come along at a rapid pace (or at least by now) and start at the X position and allow El to line up in the slot on a consistent basis. Thrash could then be the 4th guy and play Teams. Maybe plan "B" or the second option was to implement a strategy to have Thomas or Kelly start next year since Vinny and Zorn have said that it will be tough for them to grasp the concepts well enough to start year one. Kelly's lack of being able to see the field for whatever reason, and Bubba Gump Thomas not being able to learn where to line up and which route to run has put this passing game behind the eight ball. In Thomas' defense though, he is looking more sharp in his route running each game. That said, he still struggles with where to line up and when to be in and out according to what I'm gathering from Zorn's comments the past few weeks. I hope that next year we will look very different with regard to who is actually lining up at the #2, #3, and #4 spots, assuming Kelly and Thomas can contribute and study properly next year. Thrash being third on the depth chart is just an act of desperation. He's the only receiver that knows the offense outside of Moss and El. Zorn defends Thrash when people have questioned why he's starting for the same reason Gibbs defended Thrash. I'm not going to get into that though. Truth is, he's a body out there and the only thing that he is doing is running crisp routes. That's very important, especially in this offense, but when you don't have the speed and quickness to separate yourself from DBs to get open, you're simply just a body out there. When you're just a "body" and not a threat, DBs need not pay attention to you b/c you're not a focal point or even a complimentary receiver in the offense, so they can start cheating in other zones to help aid in stopping Moss, El, or Cooley. It would be a whole different story if Thrash could help stretch the field, but his presence going out for routes squeezes the zones versus opens them up. I wonder why Zorn has stressed how important it is for Devon to start coming along asap :paranoid: Thomas possesses those skills that stretches the D and forces them to play us honest. Kelly, from hearing what the whispers say coming out of the Park, is more talented than Thomas and he would definitely help to keep defenses honest. If he's healthy now, I expect Kelly to come in and help to open things up for this offense. At least having he and Thomas on the field would keep the defense honest which is something Thrash doesn't do for our offense. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MumboSauce Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 While Thomas isn't ready yet...Thrash is not the answer either...he can't get open, no quicks, no spead, no separation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BurgundyBlood_85 Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 While Thomas isn't ready yet...Thrash is not the answer either...he can't get open, no quicks, no spead, no separation. really? and where do you get your information? are you a team scout or something? im sure Thrash can give us 2 times more effort than Thomas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MumboSauce Posted November 18, 2008 Share Posted November 18, 2008 really? and where do you get your information? are you a team scout or something? im sure Thrash can give us 2 times more effort than Thomas. Well smartass Ray Charles could see he doesn't get open. This doesn't mean I don't like Thrash, good team guy, special teams guy etc. I've seen way too many times where unless you're Tom Brady you aren't fitting a pass in to Thrash because we all know Jason rarely pulls the trigger unless they guy is a mile open. If you read what I said, I don't think Thomas is ready...but also don't think Thrash is the answer either, one is doo doo the other is crap, pick the somewhat less stinky one I suppose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jino Posted November 19, 2008 Author Share Posted November 19, 2008 Great discussion guys. Both sides have very good arguments but I still stand by my original post. It seems that people think Thrash is slow and can't any separation. That's not the reason he isn't being targeted by Campbell. It's because he's never the first or second option on pass plays. Campbell usually targets the X or Y and then to Cooley. Campbell has always overlooked his slot WRs. I've seen numerous occasions where Thrash is open and never gets thrown to. What's more interesting is that Thrash is usually in the slot and is frequently covered by a LB. We have Cooley, Betts and even Sellars lining up at WR post-motion. Saying that Thrash is slower than these guys is ridiculous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MossFan89 Posted November 19, 2008 Share Posted November 19, 2008 What are you smoking??? Thrash is the root cause of our problems!! He's 34 yrs old, and has no speed or moves. He's useless. Exactly. man i don't know what some of you see in trash!! the guy sucks period! Give the young guys the nod. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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