JC needs to be more Favre like!

[DCsportsfan53]

How badly does it suck that after the first week we have to reevaluate how our guys need to play. "If we do this", "If they play like that"....I'm not bashing the thread. I'm hating that what I was thinking was going to be a fun season has quickly spiraled into this....

It hasn't spiraled into anything for me. You had to know all along that 7-9 would be a damn good season given what's taken place. If you're like me, that's ok because it's looks like we're trying to accomplish something long term that will take time. Think of what the rest of the NFCE has going right now, every single one of them took lots of heat and lots of lumps, let them slide off their backs and stuck to their long term plan. The process we're undergoing with Zorn is not preseasons long, it's seasons long, plural. Without the weight of playoff expectations which were never realistic, I'm going to enjoy watching the team grow over the season.

[ouvan59]

It hasn't spiraled into anything for me. You had to know all along that 7-9 would be a damn good season given what's taken place. If you're like me, that's ok because it's looks like we're trying to accomplish something long term that will take time. Think of what the rest of the NFCE has going right now, every single one of them took lots of heat and lots of lumps, let them slide off their backs and stuck to their long term plan. The process we're undergoing with Zorn is not preseasons long, it's seasons long, plural. Without the weight of playoff expectations which were never realistic, I'm going to enjoy watching the team grow over the season.

Amen

[Playsmart30]

if he played like favre people would be calling for his head becasue of the INTS he could throw. Jason Campbell needs to become Jason Campbell and not try and play like anyone else. He just needs to get comfortable playing like he can.

Thank you, I am looking for someone to say something like that. Redskins will never get a tom brady or manning QB because soon he look bad fan calling for his job. Yes JC been with redskins for years but he has not been in one offense system for more than two year. Last Season you see JC take few step forward in AL system but what happen Al got fire and new Offense come in

[SoCalSkins]

He needs to be like Favre and get traded from the team that drafted him.

[Norvitis]

JC needs to be bagging groceries. Oh wait. They don't have baggers at Wal-Mart. The doofus is too bland to be a Wal-Mart greeter. So make him stock shelves on the overnight shift.

[ThomasTomasz]

if he played like favre people would be calling for his head becasue of the INTS he could throw. Jason Campbell needs to become Jason Campbell and not try and play like anyone else. He just needs to get comfortable playing like he can.

Thank you, no one can state it better than that. Campbell and Zorn need to know what works right now, and what they want to work for towards the future, and utilize his strengths NOW to win. That means that we need to have some deep passes, and even if our blocking is struggling, we still need Chris Cooley out there catching passes.

[mi6]

Enough already about JC. He is an inept QB with no "IT" factor. He simply doesn't have the intangibles to be an elite QB.

Enough of all these excuses about learning a new system and all. The offensive schemes these days are not hugely different between teams. A great number of teams are using some modified form of the WCO. When rookies player better than JC ... something is wrong!

[Fight for ole DC]

MNF Pacers vs. Vikings play. Aaron Rodgers makes a nice throw so they show a VERY slow motion replay of him, twice. It's clear that AR looks in five different directions down field before he gets off a completion. He sees the field and knows his options ("Play smart with your eyes.").

JC does not look at the whole field and I don't think he can "feel" the pressure coming when he's in the pocket. His field of vision is limited so he limits his passing options. What boggles me even more is that he does not seem to know that throwing the ball away is an option. It's either a sack, incomplete pass, or short dump off that usually results in minimal yardage gained.

I'm not trying to bash JC (I've been a supporter since he was drafted), I honestly don't think he is the long term answer at QB based on how he has played in his 15 starts, or so. I hope JC proves me wrong, and that would be good because we would be winning games.

[cphil006]

Coming out of college, JC had so much pressure on him. They annointed him the savior of DC. The first QB since Theisman to be our guy.

[cphil006]

He needs to read the defense and play faster.

I should know, I'm an NFL QB... (sarcasm)

[Old Diver]

if he played like favre people would be calling for his head becasue of the INTS he could throw. Jason Campbell needs to become Jason Campbell and not try and play like anyone else. He just needs to get comfortable playing like he can.

Just curious, what is Jason now?

[gunslinger5]

Being like Favre is not something you can choose to be or be taught. You either have it or you don't. The NFL landscape is littered with QB's with all the physical tools to be great but just never got it. And Favre's playaction TD pass to Crotchrocket or whatever his name is was an absolute thing of beauty.

[Rudechain]

Give the guy and the team some time. Rome was not built in a day and a WCO does not gel in one offseason and preseason.

JC has some things to work on like locking onto a single receiver and holding the ball to long, but those things are all correctable.

The point is, there are 11 guys out there doing a job and it takes all 11 doing what they are supposed to do for a play to work as it's supposed to. Thursday night I saw a team that was not comfortable with itself or it's knowledge of the scheme.

However, it's only the first game and there are 15 more to play. This team was not going to the Super Bowl this year and would only compete for a playoff spot if everything fell into place. A little adversity has cropped up and the team has to redouble it's efforts.

These guys are pro atheletes. They get paid to play a game. Give them more than a single game before throwing them to the wolves.

[SoCalSkins]

Just curious, what is Jason now?

A loser.

[darrelgreenie]

....[Farve]He throws unconventional at times, tries to thread the needle, but the one thing you can say is that he allows his receivers to make plays. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

Now if we look at Campbell and what he might do in that situation, I think it would be safe to say that he would take the conservative approach like looking for a dump off or waiting for a receiver to get visibly opened for him to even think about throwing it.

What I'm trying to say, that I'm sure many on here have said, is that Campbell plays not to lose. I would like to see him stop thinking less and start reacting more. The problem is does Campbell have the football i.q. to allow that to happen. The only way to find out is for him to start doing it. He may go out and throw 3-4 picks but he may go out and have some real games where he is throwing for 300 yards and 4 scores. It may not guarantee us a 10 win season this year but it may help us find out if he is the qb to take us there.

Btw...sorry for yet another JC thread but what else are we going to talk about?

I understand that people want to see Campbell perform better. In the first half of the Giants game it appeared to me that Campbell didn't trust his 1st read for whatever reason. IMHO maybe its rust from not doing enough in preseason. In the WCO QBs have to trust that the receivers will get where they're going and make the throw before they get there. The QB has to know/anticipate where the route will finish. Campbell has to trust that the receivers will end up in the right place. And Campbell didn't that until the end of the first half. Maybe it was rust, maybe it was the zone-blitz looks the Giants gave him, maybe Campbell is a slow starter? Who knows? But, in the second half i thought JC was trusting what he saw and getting the ball out on time. I think Campbell is going to be fine. IMO the predictable playcalling didn't help things either.

- I hate when people play the 'what if' game but..if Devin Thomas is running that sideline route and not Thrash its probably a touchdown and people would be talking about JC differently. I expect a much better game from Campbell against the Saints.

Its not about JC taking risks; its about JC trusting the offense. And looking at the Giants game as a whole, i think JC will do just fine this year.

:2cents:

[JetSkins]

I'm not a big fan of Favre but you have to admit he is and always will be a gambler / gunslinger. He throws unconventional at times, tries to thread the needle, but the one thing you can say is that he allows his receivers to make plays. Sometimes it works and sometimes it doesn't.

The 2nd td Favre threw yesterday is a perfect example of Favre. While many would say that the pass was just thrown up for grabs and Favre should have never thrown it. Think about it for a second. It was 4th and 13 (their kicker was hurt) and he was almost sacked twice. Instead of taking a loss with no chance of a 1st down or score, he heaved it up and what do you know a receiver caught it for a score.

Now if we look at Campbell and what he might do in that situation, I think it would be safe to say that he would take the conservative approach like looking for a dump off or waiting for a receiver to get visibly opened for him to even think about throwing it.

What I'm trying to say, that I'm sure many on here have said, is that Campbell plays not to lose. I would like to see him stop thinking less and start reacting more. The problem is does Campbell have the football i.q. to allow that to happen. The only way to find out is for him to start doing it. He may go out and throw 3-4 picks but he may go out and have some real games where he is throwing for 300 yards and 4 scores. It may not guarantee us a 10 win season this year but it may help us find out if he is the qb to take us there.

Btw...sorry for yet another JC thread but what else are we going to talk about?

JC is just way over coached and will never be able to naturally be a gambler like that

[ThomasTomasz]

Enough already about JC. He is an inept QB with no "IT" factor. He simply doesn't have the intangibles to be an elite QB.

Enough of all these excuses about learning a new system and all. The offensive schemes these days are not hugely different between teams. A great number of teams are using some modified form of the WCO. When rookies player better than JC ... something is wrong!

The Coryell offense, run by Gibbs/Saunders and then the West Coast offense could not be more different.

The Coryell offense is based off of power running, and then deep, vertical strikes. The West Coast offense is based off short, timed routes designed to get rid of the ball quickly and have receivers work for the yardage after they catch the ball.

Campbell has great arm strength, and that was why Gibbs drafted him- he fit right into his offense. What Zorn needs to do is play to Campbell's strengths and bring in some plays that run deep patterns, and keep him comfortable out there.

[brianm23]

We don't HAVE to do anything. It hasn't SPIRALED into anything. It was one loss against a very good defensive front. If we play like this for the next three, four weeks then I'll be worried. But seriously guys. We are allowed to lose games.

They lost their two top defensive players on that line. How was it a very good? Beyond Tuck, they should be crap.

[Cooley4President]

They lost their two top defensive players on that line. How was it a very good? Beyond Tuck, they should be crap.

Let's not forget that Kiwanuka was a very highly regarded DE coming out of college, I believe he was the Giants first round pick in '06, but converted to LB because they had Osi and Strahan. He's not your typical backup.

[ThomasTomasz]

Let's not forget that Kiwanuka was a very highly regarded DE coming out of college, I believe he was the Giants first round pick in '06, but converted to LB because they had Osi and Strahan. He's not your typical backup.

Yeah, the Giants moved him to strong-side linebacker because they just had a logjam at the position last year. So, even with Strahan retiring, they were just going to keep Kiwanuka at linebacker, but they still brought in Danny Clark, a linebacker who has starting experience. So, it's not like this team is using a third stringer to replace either position. Their two young DT's are nothing to ignore, either.

[purbeast]

As evidence to JC not taking chances, in his entire career, he has thrown for 250 yards or more in a game twice. That's it. Sure you can point to a Vince Young who doesn't have many passing yards but look at a guy like Cutler who has had bigger games than JC.

Again, the point of the thread is not to bash JC but to make a point of what is needed from him. I hope he can make the transition.

you do realize, his whole career was with Joe Gibbs who was all about running the ball up the middle and playing "not to lose" ... right?

there were 7 games last year where the Skins went into the half with the lead which Campbell led them to, then in the 3rd quarter you saw typical Gibbs play calling of his "play not to lose" mentality, which would be mostly short passes, then run up the gut, then run up the gut, then punt. Then the defense would blow the lead and Campbell would have to do some game winning drive in the last 2 minutes to try and get the lead back. 5 of those 7 games, the skins lost.

so yea, his passing numbers also have a lot to do w/the play calling.

i still remember gibbs at the press conference after the skins smashed the cowboys last year, and one of the first things gibbs said was "i wish we ran the ball more..."

im glad that guy is gone.

[soccerguy315]

JC needs to be more like one of the best QBs ever?

I don't know that many would disagree...

[ThomasTomasz]

you do realize, his whole career was with Joe Gibbs who was all about running the ball up the middle and playing "not to lose" ... right?

there were 7 games last year where the Skins went into the half with the lead which Campbell led them to, then in the 3rd quarter you saw typical Gibbs play calling of his "play not to lose" mentality, which would be mostly short passes, then run up the gut, then run up the gut, then punt. Then the defense would blow the lead and Campbell would have to do some game winning drive in the last 2 minutes to try and get the lead back. 5 of those 7 games, the skins lost.

so yea, his passing numbers also have a lot to do w/the play calling.

i still remember gibbs at the press conference after the skins smashed the cowboys last year, and one of the first things gibbs said was "i wish we ran the ball more..."

im glad that guy is gone.

I agree with your assessment on the playcalling when we were winning. I think most here will agree that Gibbs was playing not to lose, and that affects numbers for any player, especially a quarterback. It seemed like we got into a pattern that was very predictable and easy for opponents to stop- a lot of times it was RRPP- run, run, pass, punt. It wasn't typical Saunders either, because the Chiefs were an offense that scored a bunch and wouldn't let up.

[darrelgreenie]

MNF Pacers vs. Vikings play. Aaron Rodgers makes a nice throw so they show a VERY slow motion replay of him, twice. It's clear that AR looks in five different directions down field before he gets off a completion. He sees the field and knows his options ("Play smart with your eyes.").

JC does not look at the whole field and I don't think he can "feel" the pressure coming when he's in the pocket. His field of vision is limited so he limits his passing options. What boggles me even more is that he does not seem to know that throwing the ball away is an option. It's either a sack, incomplete pass, or short dump off that usually results in minimal yardage gained.

I'm not trying to bash JC (I've been a supporter since he was drafted), I honestly don't think he is the long term answer at QB based on how he has played in his 15 starts, or so. I hope JC proves me wrong, and that would be good because we would be winning games.

On MNF last year Ron Jowarski praised Campbell for using his eyes specifically: look at 1:18

I like the fact that you mention the Packers. I think they are a good example of how the WCO can look. But, Aaron Rodger has been in Mike McCarthy's WCO for 3 years therefore knows the offense he's running better then Campbell does. Mike McCarthy has been running his version of the WCO for 3 years and therefore has a better understanding of playcalling then rookie headcoach Jim Zorn. The differences were evident in the way the Packers started the game vs the way we started the game.

Rodger's first play was a pass to the TE from the shotgun.

IMO That's the kind of play I would have liked to see the Redskins run. A simple pass to the TE -who is our best receiver (IMHO) from a formation the QB likes- shotgun. McCarthy ran plays to build Rodgers confidence in the early stages of the game even though Rodgers has been in the offense for 3 years.

I have faith that:

- our offense has enough weapons

-Campbell's has been an effective starter and effecient passer in NFL and will therefore master the WCO quicker then expected

-The WCO is proven effective in the NFL, Zorn is a proven QB coach given time his playcalling will improve

[BnG4ever326]

JC needs to be bagging groceries. Oh wait. They don't have baggers at Wal-Mart. The doofus is too bland to be a Wal-Mart greeter. So make him stock shelves on the overnight shift.

Why would he want YOUR JOB?