MCCAIN'S TOP ECONOMIC ADVISOR -- "USA A NATION OF WHINERS"

[PleaseBlitz]

Ok, I have my textbook out now.

Page 12: Priciple #8: A country's Standard of Living Depends on Its Ability to Produce goods and services. (notice it doesn't say "consume goods and services.")

Page 132-135: Productivity: Its role and determinants, why Productivity is so important, how productivity is determined

Page 137: The Importance of Saving and Investment

I dont know how you got from what you posted, to

Sure, it's a process called economic growth. Growth comes from savings not spending.

But i hope your test isnt in essay form.

[JohnLockesGhost]

I dont know how you got from what you posted, to

Now I'm just confused.

I'm saying delayed consumption, savings, investment is what leads to greater wealth and prosperity. Wealth doesn't come from consumption. Again prosperity comes from savings not spending. That's exactly what Mankiw said.

What are you even arguing?

[PleaseBlitz]

Now I'm just confused.

I'm saying delayed consumption, savings, investment is what leads to greater wealth and prosperity. Wealth doesn't come from consumption. Again prosperity comes from savings not spending. That's exactly what Mankiw said.

What are you even arguing?

That properity doesnt come from consumption.

[JohnLockesGhost]

That properity doesnt come from consumption.

Well, I'm glad we agree that the worker who is worried about his job and saves his money is actually helping the economy.

[JohnLockesGhost]

You guys will be arguing in circles if you're going to argue savings vs. spending. Obviously we need both, and it's not a matter of one or the other.

Savings is good because it puts money in the hands of banks who can provide more loans, discriminating between good business plans and bad business plans to identify the ones that will be most profitable. But too much money in the hands of banks can be bad, because they will start giving out loans to questionable borrowers, which has just happened in the housing crisis.

Spending is good because it allows consumers to discriminate between good products and bad products, helping the best businesses to survive. But too much spending can be bad because people will buy things they don't really need at prices they shouldn't be paying, which has just happened in the housing crisis with over-inflated home prices.

It's not really an either/or proposition. Good investment is good. Bad investment is bad. Good spending is good. Bad spending is bad. Confidence good. Whining bad. Any questions?

As always, DJ, I appreciate you're peacemaking efforts.

But to my mind, it's really been quite a while since we've really focused on what causes wealth. Instead we've become a nation of consumerism, so much so that we think spending causes our wealth. It's like an alcoholic justifying his drinking by claiming it will let him drink more, but all the while he's slowly killing himself.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

Everyone says its no big deal... except McCain (who sounds pisssssssed, rightfully so):

“I don’t agree with Sen. Gramm,” McCain said at a news conference this afternoon. “I believe that the person here in Michigan who just lost their job, isn’t suffering from a ‘mental recession.’ The mother here who is trying to get enough money to feed her children, isn’t ‘whining.’”

“Phil Gramm doesn’t speak for me, I speak for me. I strongly disagree,” McCain continued, speaking of the man who some speculated could be Treasury Secretary in a McCain administration.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

Everyone says its no big deal... except McCain (who sounds pisssssssed, rightfully so):

“I don’t agree with Sen. Gramm,” McCain said at a news conference this afternoon. “I believe that the person here in Michigan who just lost their job, isn’t suffering from a ‘mental recession.’ The mother here who is trying to get enough money to feed her children, isn’t ‘whining.’”

“Phil Gramm doesn’t speak for me, I speak for me. I strongly disagree,” McCain continued, speaking of the man who some speculated could be Treasury Secretary in a McCain administration.

Doesn't really matter if its true or false.

Its an incredibly stupid thing to say, because people will look at 'mental recession' and hear 'its all in your head'.

[PleaseBlitz]

McCain apologizes too much for stuff he shouldnt apologize for. I know he wants to stay above the fray or whatever, but c'mon. Man up and fling some **** around Johnny.

[Tulane Skins Fan]

McCain apologizes too much for stuff he shouldnt apologize for. I know he wants to stay above the fray or whatever, but c'mon. Man up and fling some **** around Johnny.

I think he's doing damage control, and I think politically he has to throw Gramm under the bus here.

He's going to get SLAMMED for this now, and he's being smart by saying its totally wrong and is inconsistent with his findings.

[Popeman38]

Well, I'm glad we agree that the worker who is worried about his job and saves his money is actually helping the economy.

That would not be Macro, but Micro. In order to save in Macro, the US Govt (and large corps) would have to be saving and investing (not currently happening). The worker needs to be spending his money (while saving a small portion) to keep the economy rolling. If every individual saved all they could, and spent as little as possible, the economy would collapse. This is why the stimulus was a bad idea. What the govt should have done was allocated the same amount of money into infrastructure. There would have been thousands of jobs created and the multiplier effect would have pumped twice as much money into the economy, 50% more than a teax refund does.

[JohnLockesGhost]

That would not be Macro, but Micro. In order to save in Macro, the US Govt (and large corps) would have to be saving and investing (not currently happening). The worker needs to be spending his money (while saving a small portion) to keep the economy rolling. If every individual saved all they could, and spent as little as possible, the economy would collapse. This is why the stimulus was a bad idea. What the govt should have done was allocated the same amount of money into infrastructure. There would have been thousands of jobs created and the multiplier effect would have pumped twice as much money into the economy, 50% more than a teax refund does.

Oh man, don't get me started on another of my pet peeves: that there's this wild disconnect between the micro and the macro. That could probably be a whole 'nother thread.

[Vicious]

Don't be such a whiner, energy and food prices are all in your head.

[DieselPwr44]

How can you invest and spread your money if you don't have any money because of you spent it all on 3 68 inch flat screens?

Or filled up your car.......

[Vicious]

Don't worry, he's only a multi millionaire it's not like he's one of those elitist billionaires. He understands you and your pain.

[The Sisko]

I've been meaning to reply to this for a while but haven't had the opportunity to do so until now. I think this is an interesting study in the ability of those brainwashed by McCain to completely ignore yet another flip flop on his part...but hey, they're only following suit with McCain so perhaps that's to be expected.

I would contend that McCain's view prior to the Phil Graham flap was that the economy could be fixed simply by pretending the problem doesn't exist. As Sarge and Oldskool have said, this isn't some nuclear meltdown but there are a lot of folks out there having a lot of economic difficulty. Even more troubling, this isn't simply another cyclical downturn that will correct itself in a few months. This time, there are some serious structural flaws in our economy that need to be addressed if we're to have long-term prosperity. To not recognize all that along with the implications to McCain of such a comment is quite frankly pretty stupid on Graham's part.

In any event, regarding McCains repudiation of Graham by saying Graham doesn't speak for him, it really holds water because McCain has never asserted that it's all just in our heads.

...or has he?

1. Economic downturn is "psychological."

Having on multiple occasions admitted his limited understanding of the economy, Senator McCain instead turned armchair psychologist to diagnose the U.S economic slowdown. In April, McCain told Fox News' Neil Cavuto that "a lot of our problems today, as you know, are psychological." Apparently, four months of job losses, oil at $120 a barrel, record gas prices at the pump, 47 million uninsured and a devastating home foreclosure crisis are merely a figment of Americans' imaginations.

And, if you haven't heard by now, this wasn't the first time he's

.

http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/001126.htm

...On Tuesday, McCain prescribed his summer gas tax holiday for America's depressed drivers, explaining "In the short term I'd like to give you a little relief for the summer on the gas tax." But back in April, Sigmund McCain told Fox News host Neil Cavuto that his placebo was just what the doctor ordered for Americans' fragile psyches, if not their pocketbooks:

"I'm very concerned about it, Neil. And obviously the way it's been going up is just terrible. But I think psychologically - and a lot of our problems today, as you know, are psychological - the confidence, trust, the uncertainty about our economic future, ability to keep our own home. This might give them a little psychological boost. Let's have some straight talk, it's not a huge amount of money."

But hey, it's not like he's out of touch or anything. I mean, he's not like "Snobama", he's just a regular Joe Six Pack like the rest of us

http://www.perrspectives.com/blog/archives/001126.htm

Of course, John McCain is nothing if not ironic. On more than one occasion, McCain prescribed eBay as the cure for recession and poverty. This latest episode of McCain as economic know-nothing turned armchair psychologist came on literally the same day Karl Rove branded Democrat Barack Obama as the "coolly arrogant", "country club" snob. John and Cindy McCain, after all, are worth an estimated $100 million and own eight homes (though the one with "remote control window coverings" is now up for sale). And, as it turns out, the $373,000 the couple would save annually from John McCain's tax plan would more than offset their $225,000 in credit card debt.

So, which is it John? Is it all just in our heads or is it real? But hey, what else can we expect from him? The poor guy by his own admission

so I guess we can cut him a break.

To be fair, as I said with the Obama comments about clinging to guns and religion, there was a nugget of truth to the sentiment. In Obama's case it was that manufacturing jobs simply aren't coming back to the rust belt and those folks had better get used to it and move on. As for Graham, some of us have grown accustomed to having our cake and eating it too and when we finally have to face the reality that it's not going to be that way all the time....WAAAAAAAAA!!! I was raised by a Black Grandmother who lived through the Jim Crow south, the great depression and WWII. After hearing her stories, those folks bleating about not having the $$$ to buy the latest PS3 game sounds kind of pathetic to me.

Even so, I think it's interesting that ESers are representative of the whining mentality so when you agree with Graham about this, realize you might just be talking about yourself as well.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=250701

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=111665

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=201412

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=199027&page=1&pp=30

and, my personal favorite: http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=235188

[Chief skin]

This is exactly what is wrong with Washington. Our elected officials screw everything up then don't lilke it when WE THE PEOPLE criticize them and HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE.

[ECU-ALUM]

This is exactly what is wrong with Washington. Our elected officials screw everything up then don't lilke it when WE THE PEOPLE criticize them and HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE.

QFT the best thing I have read in this entier thread. :applause:

[The Sisko]

This is exactly what is wrong with Washington. Our elected officials screw everything up then don't lilke it when WE THE PEOPLE criticize them and HOLD THEM ACCOUNTABLE.

Isn't that what we hire them to do though?

[PleaseBlitz]

4 days and nearly 100 posts later and people are still whining about being called whiners. :laugh: