Corcaigh Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 place and time is censorship man...... dont you realize that? if you say you can say what you want when you want as long as it is between 2 am and 4 am at your local mall..... do you think that is still freedom of speech? That's not what is being advocated. WHEN obama becomes president and he does something you dont like and you want to protest ...... would you want to be told when and where you can? no ..... you will prolly want to reach as many people as possible with your message Yes I do expect that people should be entitled to protest, but not in a way that interferes, for example with the inauguration of Obama or McCain. They can protest on the motorcade route or elsewhere but not in a way that disrupts the actual ceremony. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 I'm visiting the Liberty Bell with my young family and you want me to do what exactly?Anyone promoting their agenda uninvited to an audience they intrude on is not going to go away because they are politely asked. "Honey, this is America. Everyone's freedom is treasured here, even people who say things we disagree with." PERFECT teaching tool. If this person was doing the same thing in Arlington National Cemetry at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, is everyone OK with this intrusion? Y'know what? I'd like to know exactly what the guards are permitted to do in that instance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 :doh: here we go again......... Hey. What can I say? Occasionally you're right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SUSkinsFan Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 They can protest on the motorcade route or elsewhere but not in a way that disrupts the actual ceremony.But doesn't protesting along the motorcade route hinder the enjoyment of others? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Burgold Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 I think it all depends how "in their faces" he was. If he was preaching generally I think that should be okay, if he was stepping in front of people, obstructing them and badgering people, then I think it is a different story. I will say this though, when I heard that President Bush was creating "Free Speech Zones" during his speeches and campaign stops I was apalled. I thought it absolutely ridiculous that they would not allow signs or banners or anyone who wasn't an avid Bush supporter within a half-mile of Bush. Yes, the free speech zone was a half mile away and there it was said that people could protest, complain, or say their peace. I think free speech zones are a dangerous idea, because it allows a Marie Antoinette French Aristocrasy. It's not bad for comfort zones to be challenged, it isn't bad to hear things unpleasant on occassion. We don't have to be protected and our leaders certainly should be able to hear from us if we are displeased. So, preach on, preacher man as long as you don't assault me or impede me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 So Corcaigh, let me borrow your logic. I come to this message board to relax, chat with friends, and discuss the issues of the day. I don't come to see someone regularly post what I perceive to be anti-Christian threads. So out of respect for me, and my rights, shouldn't you have to go post elsewhere? You come here to relax? :laugh: How is that working out? Maybe you should start and post in fewer race-related threads if that's the case. Well your perception of anti-Christian is not based in fact as we've been through before. That aside, if I was breaking the rules of the board I will not be allowed to return. The question then is what are appropriate rules. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Well your perception of anti-Christian is not based in fact as we've been through before. That aside, if I was breaking the rules of the board I will not be allowed to return. The question then is what are appropriate rules. Interesting that you bring up perception of people's messages. I think that's actually what you're taking issue with here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeknows Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 I'm visiting the Liberty Bell with my young family and you want me to do what exactly?Anyone promoting their agenda uninvited to an audience they intrude on is not going to go away because they are politely asked. If this person was doing the same thing in Arlington National Cemetry at the Tomb of the Unknown Soldier, is everyone OK with this intrusion? i guess this is the difference between us..... if i had my kids there and was visiting these historic monuments .... i would use the guy as an example to show my kids that back when this country was founded a person couldnt do that before and now because many people died to give us this right..... this guy can stand here and preach..... i would also explain to them that we dont have to agree with them just agree with his right to do so....... it is a fundamental that this country was founded upon...... it would be a real life learning experience for the kids..... not an obstruction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 "Honey, this is America. Everyone's freedom is treasured here, even people who say things we disagree with." Again, it's not what people say, it's where and when they say it. I would like to see some freedom of speech advocates try to disrupt the solemnity of the Tomb of the Unknowns. I believe there is a place and time and some, limited restrictions are appropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 But doesn't protesting along the motorcade route hinder the enjoyment of others? It's a tradeoff. And the free speech zones try to accomplish this. I'm not advocating banning speech or making it only permissible in North Dakota at 3am as your strawman argument tried to imply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 i guess this is the difference between us..... if i had my kids there and was visiting these historic monuments .... i would use the guy as an example to show my kids that back when this country was founded a person couldnt do that before and now because many people died to give us this right..... this guy can stand here and preach..... i would also explain to them that we dont have to agree with them just agree with his right to do so....... it is a fundamental that this country was founded upon......it would be a real life learning experience for the kids..... not an obstruction So are you also against Fred Phelps and his right to protest at soldiers' funerals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 If the guy did not like the law he could have just challenged it in court, but he was not being told what he was allowed to say just where he could not say it, there is nothing that states you have the right to speak where ever, when ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 What if it were that Church that shows up at military funerals to scream about God hating gays?....and just did that at the Liberty Bell because they knew people were touring? I'd like to see from those who are critical of the police in this case explain why Fred Phelps speech is unacceptable, even in silent protest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Teller Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 So are you also against Fred Phelps and his right to protest at soldiers' funerals? What else happens at those funerals? Let's be honest here. Isn't there another form of free speech that's exercised? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeknows Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Hey. What can I say? Occasionally you're right. :rotflmao: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeknows Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 So are you also against Fred Phelps and his right to protest at soldiers' funerals? im not saying that........ he DOES have that right unless it is a private cemetary........ sure he can come and protest at my grandpas funeral...... but im willing to bet his disrespect would mean he wouldnt be leaving quite the way he came...... we dont have to agree with the message and i DO understand your point but im not willing to have another of my inalienable freedoms regulated for the rest of the feel good society........ would it be wrong of me to kick mr phelps ass in the situation described above? yes........... but nobody is perfect...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 there is the answer.............. SUBMIT.i say F that. i dont even like evangelist but i respect their right to freedom of speech. if this guy cant preach the gospel on a public sidewalk then how the hell can any of us "preach" dissent when concerning political matters? this is yet another instance of incrimentalism. first you cant preach here..... then you cant preach there either........... now...... you just cant preach! dammit........ stand up you weak kneed sissies and recognize the erosion of our rights!! when will you make your stand? or will you? we must stop our public servants from telling us what is up and start demanding that they recognize that they, the courts, and the system belongs to us! not them! verbal permit huh? now instead of calling it what it is...... telling us when and where and sometimes even what we can say...... it is called a verbal permit? well, i give this cop and the court a verbal permit to kiss my american ass. this is not representative of the country that i fought 2 wars for!!!!!!!!!! I'm sure the "free speech zones" are in nice little remote corners, where no one will hear what's being said anyway.I agree with joeknows. Bit by bit our freedoms are being whittled away. Woo Hoo!! I'm gonna go yell 'FIRE!!' really loud in a crowded theatre. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DRSmith Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 I'd like to see from those who are critical of the police in this case explain why Fred Phelps speech is unacceptable, even in silent protest. His form of preaching reflects badly on those who do preach the gospel, what he preaches is nothing more than a biased based hate speech,but then again I am not critical of the police in this case Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeknows Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Woo Hoo!! I'm gonna go yell 'FIRE!!' really loud in a crowded theatre. not the same thing........ yelling fire in a crowded theater puts people at risk of bodily harm.......... preaching from a sidewalk does not......... thank you ...... please try again........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rincewind Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 not the same thing........ yelling fire in a crowded theater puts people at risk of bodily harm.......... preaching from a sidewalk does not.........thank you ...... please try again........ Who are you to step on my freedom of speech in yelling 'Fire!!'. Little by little our freedoms are being stripped. I'd love to see the arguments if this guy was yelling anti-American rhetoric or preaching Muslim teachings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 What else happens at those funerals? Let's be honest here. Isn't there another form of free speech that's exercised? I don't get your point. Fred Phelps and his crew under law are not permitted to be within a certain distance of soldier funerals. I think that is absolutely the right approach. In other cases, one group of protestors are allowed to counter protest but not disrupt another gathering. In the case of the Liberty Bell I would have no problem with any portestor, preacher or anyone else to line a walkway as you approach the monument, but once you get close to it the rights of those visitng the monumber should also be respected. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 dammit........ stand up you weak kneed sissies and recognize the erosion of our rights!! when will you make your stand? or will you? :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy :notworthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 im not saying that........ he DOES have that right unless it is a private cemetary........ A number of locations have introduced legislation to make it very clear that he can't. Are you OK with people interfering at the Tomb of the Unknowns too? Not protesting on the pathway as you approach, but "in your face" intrusion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 I agree with free speech zones. Does anyone think it is reasonable that someone enjoying a visit to the Liberty Bell should have to listen to a diatribe from any cause? Do I have any rights to visit a national monument in peace? Why should someone else's rights to speech have to trump my rights? Hardly the same situation. The right to free speech does not equal the right to disrupt or interfere. That is what those verbally promoting any cause in the immediate vicinity of a national monument are doing. They are interfering with the purpose of the visitor. It is not like a street corner where the victim can walk on by. I'm not arguing that you can regulate what they say, just where and when they say it.So you are OK with someone screaming and shouting amything they want all day at the Vietnam Memorial? All I can say is, your bordering on Communism. The next thing you know, we will have people smuggling Bibles into our country so people can worship in secret. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joeknows Posted June 16, 2008 Share Posted June 16, 2008 Who are you to step on my freedom of speech in yelling 'Fire!!'. Little by little our freedoms are being stripped. I'd love to see the arguments if this guy was yelling anti-American rhetoric or preaching Muslim teachings. you are kidding right? please tell me you are smarter than this and this is not your argument if he were preaching muslim teachings........ that MOST DEFINATELY would be a learning experience for the kids. freedom of religion....... another great foundation of this country anti american rhetoric? ....... guess what....... ANOTHER founding principal ...... the right to dissent...... all i have heard from yall so far is freedom of speech exist only if you agree with , when , where , how , and what the person is saying....... how unamerican Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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