which doll is the bad doll?`

[Guest sith lord]

I couldn't listen to the whole thing. I saw about 5 minutes of the panel part.

And I'm sorry, but you can't convince me the deck is stacked anymore.

What is causing the self-image problem? Magazines? OK, great. There's a Jet, but there's no Snow. There's an Ebony but there's no Ivory. OF COURSE black kids are going to see more white people in magazines and on TV. There are more of us in the country. It just makes sense.

I agree. Trust me, I know that blacks can be their own worst enemy. I see it everyday. That being said, the deck is still stacked against blacks, particularly young black men. Still to this day and age, a black kid and a white kid go out and commit the same crime, guess who's probably gonna get counciling and who's gonna do time? And they also talked about money that goes into a surburban school compared to the funding an inner city school would get and you're telling me that the deck isn't stacked?

[Teller]

You are aware that panels were put together in regards to eating disorders. Acting as though this is a problem stemming from one child's issues and a panel was needlessly called is disingenuous in my mind.

Discussing problems that face our society are not getting away from personal responsibility, they are a part of responsibility and accountability.

You asked specifically anout my child having an eating disorder. You made it one child's issue when you asked the question. I answered it as it was posed.

If you would read my post prior to your question, you would see that I've said anything of the sort, as far as this being a one-child issue.

Great. Have a panel. Continue blaming whites for everything that goes wrong. Crucify us. Frankly, I don't care. But at the same time, be telling African-American kids CONSTANTLY how beautiful and strong they are.

Kids WANT to listen to us. Kids WANT to believe us. My God. My five-year old would do anything in the world to 'earn' the affection of her daddy (though of course she doesn't have to.) They're sponges. Their brains are like precious clay. If you mold that clay into a strong, self-confident person, they'll NEVER lose that!!!

[DCsportsfan53]

If my child has an eating disorder, I'm not going to call a panel together to discuss and place blame elsewhere. I'm going to get her to a physician, then probably a psychiatrist, and whatever other specialist is recommended.

Personal accountability.

My children are my life, and MY responsibility. If they fail, it's because I failed. Period.

You're overstating your own influence and dismissing history and the reality of the situation, but I don't expect you to see it.

[33]

You asked specifically anout my child having an eating disorder. You made it one child's issue when you asked the question. I answered it as it was posed.

If you would read my post prior to your question, you would see that I've said anything of the sort, as far as this being a one-child issue.

Great. Have a panel. Continue blaming whites for everything that goes wrong. Crucify us. Frankly, I don't care. But at the same time, be telling African-American kids CONSTANTLY how beautiful and strong they are.

Kids WANT to listen to us. Kids WANT to believe us. My God. My five-year old would do anything in the world to 'earn' the affection of her daddy (though of course she doesn't have to.) They're sponges. Their brains are like precious clay. If you mold that clay into a strong, self-confident person, they'll NEVER lose that!!!

I already read your other post. There isn't anything wrong with it at face value. I think there is a thing or two I don't agree with and I think there are some issues that you don't acknowledge, but that panel could do a much better job of addressing those point than I can do, especially since they did address those points.

The video is worth watching if you want to hear from another view.

[Bang]

As was pointed out on the first page, we see three kids out of 100. We see quick cuts, we see pointing with no question.

We all accept that there is propaganda in America over other major issues, Michael Moore is a propagandist, Fox New is a propaganda machine. I'm skeptical of this film. It's too pieced together. The question could be "which doll has brown skin" and they film the kid point to the black doll, and then dub in a question that says "which doll is ugly".

It's not as if it is beyond the realm of possibility, and considering the rest of the BS that surrounds race relations it wouldn't shock me in the slightest.

If the interviewer was on camera, and I could see him asking the questions, followed by the response without a dramatic camera cutaway, it would go a long way to helping me over the skepticism.

Self image is taught at home. And no one needs to be taught what a decent home-life is like, as was suggested. If you need to be told to provide for your kids, nurture and love them, then you shouldn't be having them in the first place because you're woefully unprepared, and will simply exacerbate the problem.

4 and 5 yr old kids, which they appeared to be, have ONE way of learning they're inferior, and that is through their parents. Don't tell me about all the bad imagery on TV, if you think it's bad for your kid, then you turn the TV off. Besides, in the last 25 to 30 years television, especially children's television have made a very strong concerted effort to be multi-cultural and diverse. Watch Sesame Street one time. Watch a hundred other wholesome children's shows that you'd find on PBS, and the theme of diversity, equality and self image is repeated over and over and over and over.

Kids that age learn most of their behavior from their parents. The stuff about the house slaves and field slaves and the lighter skinned were preferred... OK, I can buy that, but does that explain why to this day in Africa, dark skinned people from the interior continent are enslaved by lighter skinned people from northern Africa? Is THAT racism to be blamed on long-dead American slavery as well?

At what point does personal responsibility to your children enter into the equation?

~Bang

[33]

Self image is taught at home. And no one needs to be taught what a decent home-life is like, as was suggested. If you need to be told to provide for your kids, nurture and love them, then you shouldn't be having them in the first place because you're woefully unprepared, and will simply exacerbate the problem.

~Bang

And what are we as society to do with the children who grow into unprepared, or improperly raised adults?

We as society are stuck with the problems of bad parenting, so wouldn't it make sense to have a vested interest?

Clearly this line of thinking works with any parallel issue, and not just self image, but I would be curious as to your thoughts.

[Teller]

I agree. Trust me, I know that blacks can be their own worst enemy. I see it everyday. That being said, the deck is still stacked against blacks, particularly young black men. Still to this day and age, a black kid and a white kid go out and commit the same crime, guess who's probably gonna get counciling and who's gonna do time? And they also talked about money that goes into a surburban school compared to the funding an inner city school would get and you're telling me that the deck isn't stacked?

This country is not perfect, sith. It never will be. That's not my point.

Look, I understand that at one time in our VERY recent past, historically speaking, there was a consistent, systematic and wide-spread effort to hold African-Americans back. All I'm saying is that that system doesn't exist any more. And thank the Good Lord for it!!!

There are injustices, still. I see affirmative action as something of an injustice. You see inner-city school funding as an injustice. Fair enough. We could debate some of that stuff all day. And we have.

All I'm saying is that children long to absorb the information we provide them. And that information largely determines their opinions of themselves. If we do a good job, they'll be healthy and well adjusted. If we don't, they won't. But regardless, we, as parents, can't blame society for our failure to do our job well.

[twa]

You're overstating your own influence and dismissing history and the reality of the situation, but I don't expect you to see it.

I don't think it is possible to overstate parent's influence in a child's development.

How much does history and reality effect a child of the age tested?

The reality of broken homes (and perhaps adult transference to kids)is the only truly relevant reality in this case.

[BigMike619]

First off, Kevin Powell is just some Real World cast member who was writing for a hip hop magazine. So what makes him an expert on anything? He was screaming racism back on that show and its obvious that he hasnt changed since then.

On to the show itself, that does suck but how is that anyone's fault but the parents? Why didnt we see asian, latin or white kids on there? I bet it would be interesting to see what some OTHER race might have to say as well.

This film was completely biased and racist within itself by ONLY concentrating on one race. If you are going to try and do a scientific test then come from EVERY angle. Not just the black one.

[33]

This film was completely biased and racist within itself by ONLY concentrating on one race. If you are going to try and do a scientific test then come from EVERY angle. Not just the black one.

It was a recreation of a test done decades ago.

[Teller]

I already read your other post. There isn't anything wrong with it at face value. I think there is a thing or two I don't agree with and I think there are some issues that you don't acknowledge, but that panel could do a much better job of addressing those point than I can do, especially since they did address those points.

The video is worth watching if you want to hear from another view.

I'm at work, or I would have watched the whole thing. I'll try to get to it later.

And just for the record, I don't expect you to agree with me on everything. And frankly, the fact that you only disagree with one or two points is pretty refreshing. I think we're discussing this reasonably and openly, and we're both probably learning from it. That's a good thing.

You're overstating your own influence and dismissing history and the reality of the situation, but I don't expect you to see it.

Do you have kids? I'm certainly NOT the authority. But I absolutely can speak from personal experience.

My oldest daughter wants to be a racecar driver and play for the Redskins when she grows up. That gives you an idea of the even inadvertent influence we can have as parents.

Trust me. A child who grows up hearing, everyday, from both parents, how beautiful she is, believes it. And EVERY child should believe that.

[bschurm]

... society can no longer be blamed for failures at home. It's time for personal accountability...

This simple statement sums it all up.

As far as the video, I did not even bother with the panel discussion because it was obvious from the slant of the edited video where this was going.

Look, with the introduction of a vaible Presidential candidate who happens to be black, we are going to be confronted with the issue of race. Is there an even playing field for everyone? NO! But if you can't learn to deal with the hand you are dealt, then life is going to be an uphill struggle all the way regardless of race, sexual identity, gender, age or any other characteristic that could create hardships for you.

[BigMike619]

It was a recreation of a test done decades ago.

Thats the dumbest **** I have ever heard. Why would you do that then? Is that one of those "in case you forgot how you were white people" type of things?

[Guest sith lord]

First off, Kevin Powell is just some Real World cast member who was writing for a hip hop magazine. So what makes him an expert on anything? He was screaming racism back on that show and its obvious that he hasnt changed since then.

On to the show itself, that does suck but how is that anyone's fault but the parents? Why didnt we see asian, latin or white kids on there? I bet it would be interesting to see what some OTHER race might have to say as well.

This film was completely biased and racist within itself by ONLY concentrating on one race. If you are going to try and do a scientific test then come from EVERY angle. Not just the black one.

All I can do is laugh. Again, did you even hear some of the examples the panel gave? Sure, self-esteem begins at home, but to just sit there and say society has no accountability is beyond nieve.

[BigMike619]

All I can do is laugh. Again, did you even hear some of the examples the panel gave? Sure, self-esteem begins at home, but to just sit there and say society has no accountability is beyond nieve.

laugh all you want but I am not nAive. I know that people are lazy and like to use others as reasons for why their lives suck. I somehow doubt that white people are gathering all the little black children together and telling them that "white is right" and "black is ugly". For people to think that for a second or to let the blame of this go beyond your own front doorstep is lame on their part.

I know some UGLY girls who think they are hot because their family told them how pretty they were their entire lives.

[Bang]

And what are we as society to do with the children who grow into unprepared, or improperly raised adults?

We as society are stuck with the problems of bad parenting, so wouldn't it make sense to have a vested interest?

Clearly this line of thinking works with any parallel issue, and not just self image, but I would be curious as to your thoughts.

What do you propose?

Parenting classes? Pre-pregnancy screenings?

How do you make people treat their kids differently? How do you stop unfit parents from having kids by the bushel? How do you do any of this without causing infinitely more problems?

The one woman on the panel.. Chris Rock's wife,, made sure her pre-school age kids knew what slavery was, said she took them to slave houses, let them see it,, I wonder if she then took them to the Holocaust Museum?

She was proud to take those kids to South Africa, (interesting that she seems to only talk about teaching her kids about racism when whites are the perpetrators. She should have taken her kids to Chad where they could see actual working slave ships right in front of them. She could have taken her kids to Mauritania, and they could view the slave auctions firsthand.)

She said she was proud to let them play in a shanty-town. I cant figure that out for the life of me, Why on earth you'd be proud to have your kids play in a filthy ghetto is beyond me.

The simple fact is her connection to 'the continent" is only something she's read in books, same as 95% of other "african americans". Maybe she could have saved some airfare and let her kids play down in Anacostia. I wonder how proud she'd have been of that? She's a Howard educated successful American woman, her connection to black people living in Shanty Towns in South Africa does not exist except in her head.

I'm not saying I have any answers beyond this one. It all begins at HOME. YOU are the single largest influence on your children. It's up to YOU to help them achieve a positive self image.

Personal responsibility. You want a better world for your kids? Then everyone teach your kids better. Teach them to live without hate and they will. Watch kids play together. They don't care who's black or white. They just play and they'll all play together without any encouragement from we adults.

Maybe it is we who should learn from them.

~Bang

[Bang]

It was a recreation of a test done decades ago.

In which we only saw the reactions of 3% of those tested.

Have you ever in your life heard of any experiment in which 3% constituted enough of a majority that it was viewed as the result?

Ever?

I mean besides now.

~Bang

[Teller]

Bang. Wow. :applause:

[Guest sith lord]

laugh all you want but I am not nAive. I know that people are lazy and like to use others as reasons for why their lives suck. I somehow doubt that white people are gathering all the little black children together and telling them that "white is right" and "black is ugly". For people to think that for a second or to let the blame of this go beyond your own front doorstep is lame on their part.

I know some UGLY girls who think they are hot because their family told them how pretty they were their entire lives.

I know a lot of people that are lazy also. But that's not the point. So is it black people fault that they're more likely will see jail time for the same crime that a white person commits, but they're more likely to get probation or counciling or is it just our imaginations that surburbin schools get better funding than inner-city schools?

And you don't think that the deck isn't stacked?

[twa]

All I can do is laugh. Again, did you even hear some of the examples the panel gave? Sure, self-esteem begins at home, but to just sit there and say society has no accountability is beyond nieve.

You seem to dismiss too easily the importance a parent should have in a child's development.

IF we can break the chain with the younger ones,perhaps then society can address better the issues that effect adults.

But how do you compel parents to stay together and actually parent? :whoknows:

from a similar test in England

http://www.voice-online.co.uk/content.php?show=11984

Dr. Robert Beckford, a lecturer in culture at Oxford Brooks University, said: "It shows that as black parents, we need to work in regards to our children's schooling. I don't trust the education our kids get in school. We need to find out on a daily basis what they have been taught and to re-educate if necessary."

"I make sure on a daily basis that I affirm black culture and heritage to my children. Not to make them feel superior, but to make them feel the equal of any child," he added. :applause:

Added

Sith, move to Texas ...we have Robin Hood school financing.(stealing from the rich districts and giving to the poor.)

[33]

In which we only saw the reactions of 3% of those tested.

Have you ever in your life heard of any experiment in which 3% constituted enough of a majority that it was viewed as the result?

Ever?

I mean besides now.

~Bang

You are taking my answer and using it for your own benefit in this case, without knowing my stance whatsoever.

[BigMike619]

I know a lot of people that are lazy also. But that's not the point. So is it black people fault that they're more likely will see jail time for the same crime that a white person commits, but they're more likely to get probation or counciling or is it just our imaginations that surburbin schools get better funding than inner-city schools?

And you don't think that would make someone feel inferior?

Suburban schools.

Dude, you are trying to act like there is some "black" rule and a "white" rule. Your home life is what you make of it. My family didnt teach me that I was any better then you, but that I am not any lower either. I am capable of doing anything that I put my mind towards doing and let NOONE stand in my way.

With that being said, yes it is the fault of the FAMILY if the kid sees jail time. You shouldnt be comparing what white people got to your crime, you should NOT be committing crimes period!! Maybe thats what the problem is. People are so sure that they are going to commit crimes now that they just want equal rights instead of trying to deter from doing anything wrong to begin with.

I am part of a group that tells you that you create your own destiny and path. You cannot make me feel anything, I choose to either allow you to influence me or I choose to shut out what you have to say. You are only as powerful in my life as I let you be.

[Guest sith lord]

You seem to dismiss too easily the importance a parent should have in a child's development.

IF we can break the chain with the younger ones,perhaps then society can address better the issues that effect adults.

But how do you compel parents to stay together and actually parent? :whoknows:

from a similar test in England

http://www.voice-online.co.uk/content.php?show=11984

Dr. Robert Beckford, a lecturer in culture at Oxford Brooks University, said: "It shows that as black parents, we need to work in regards to our children's schooling. I don't trust the education our kids get in school. We need to find out on a daily basis what they have been taught and to re-educate if necessary."

"I make sure on a daily basis that I affirm black culture and heritage to my children. Not to make them feel superior, but to make them feel the equal of any child," he added. :applause:

Believe me, I know the importance a parent have in a child's development. And as for "re-educating." Easier said than done.

[Guest sith lord]

Suburban schools.

Dude, you are trying to act like there is some "black" rule and a "white" rule. Your home life is what you make of it. My family didnt teach me that I was any better then you, but that I am not any lower either. I am capable of doing anything that I put my mind towards doing and let NOONE stand in my way.

With that being said, yes it is the fault of the FAMILY if the kid sees jail time. You shouldnt be comparing what white people got to your crime, you should NOT be committing crimes period!! Maybe thats what the problem is. People are so sure that they are going to commit crimes now that they just want equal rights instead of trying to deter from doing anything wrong to begin with.

I am part of a group that tells you that you create your own destiny and path. You cannot make me feel anything, I choose to either allow you to influence me or I choose to shut out what you have to say. You are only as powerful in my life as I let you be.

In many cases, there does seem to be a set of rules for whites and a set of rules for blacks.

You can sit there all you want and come up with smart asnwers all you want, but people(white and black)are gonna commit crimes. Is it wrong to ask for fair punishment?

[Bang]

You are taking my answer and using it for your own benefit in this case, without knowing my stance whatsoever.

I'm putting forth questions that should be answered. Perhaps by doing so your stance may become more clear.

Like

Why are we even considering this to be valid when all we saw was 3 of 100 kids?

What of the other 97 kids?

~Bang