Player Character

[AAARedskin]

Sorry....I forgot to mention Michael Vick...another FIRST ROUND pick with CHARACTER ISSUES. Sorry guys, but to just throw caution to the wind and not do a back-ground check on possible draft picks is really dumb.

[Byner21]

Confusing post. You seem to defend the mentioned players' character initially, then you go on to say that their character doesn't really matter.

Character is pretty important to me, and I agree that a lot of unfair judgements are made of people based on qualities unrelated to character (rapper, gold teeth).

[coyote4848]

hmmm, quandry, while I certainly want "good character" players as well. You can have both, and sometimes character can lead to more talent and more success.....a great example is the NE Pats.....they didn't have any big names the first couple of times they won the bowl, just solid guys with a lot of character that played as a team. Without character, sometimes the full talent may not be achieved. However, there are certain guys that just play so well that you may have to overlook some of their character flaws....ie: Manley, Marshall, Merriman, TO as examples.

John Wooden said it best as far as character goes.......

"You can make mistakes, but you are not a failure until you blame others for those mistakes. When you blame others, you are trying to excuse yourself. When you make excuses you cannot properly evaluate yourself. Without proper evaluation, failure is inevitable.

[Fieldy]

a great example is the NE Pats.....they didn't have any big names the first couple of times they won the bowl, just solid guys with a lot of character that played as a team.

And lets not forget about the Giants this year...nobody saw them doing anything in the playoffs because they didn't have their "big star" Jeremy Shockey. Shockey broke his leg which kept his attitude off "me first" mentality off the field and Giants won the SB!

Peyton didn't win the SB while he was chasing records...he became a team-focused player.

Cowgirls have all these "great" players - Homo, TO, Witten, et. al...but they STILL CAN'T WIN A PLAYOFF GAME. Egos and "me first" mentalities lead to disruption in the locker room and NO CHAMPIONSHIPS. Football is the ultimate team sport and there is no 'I' in team.

[adamyesme1111]

Sorry dude, this thread isn't about you or your post.

=/

I could only assume, because I was the one who started the thread with him in the locker room. Most people bashed me like if I was saying we shouldn't draft him because he rapped. There was only one person in that whole thread who had a problem with him rapping and I don't remember his name so I could only assume that when you put that in there you were talking about me.

Edit: it wasnt even the OP who said it wasn't about my post :doh: , wow

[Forever21]

Character counts for something in this world. Whether you play football or are an accountant or you work at McDonals, having character is important.

I don't know why people would say Ocho Cinco has bad character...he's simply having fun. I also don't remember being attacking Lloyd's character...Llyod has no drive or desire is his problem.

Rapping does not mean someone has no character, what you rap about does. Kelly can rap instead of speak for all I care as long as he's not rapping about guns and drugs and murder and as long as he produces on the field.

I do believe that talent is more important than character for sure. But it's like 55/45 as far as I'm concerned. I don't want to cheer for guys like Lewis or Tank Johnson. I wouldn't feel good about that, but of course I would if they were in B&G, but I would only praise their football not their life.

Dr. Z's recent article on Warren Sapp kind of makes a point on this. I had no respect for Sapp as a person but if he had been blowing up QB's for for, yeah I'd have cheered.

[skins4me58203]

I don't believe the actual issue among Redskins fans is character. When it comes down to it we all want good people. But what I find when I read threads on this board is we don't want ATTITUDE on this team.

We don't want to sign D. Hall because he's a "me" guy. We don't want 85 because he's selfish. These are not charachter issues in my eyes.

Skin fans need to realize that not every player in the league is a humble guy. But that doesn't mean they can't or shouldn't play for us.

[CG]

In today's game, you have to consider character as a factor. If you don't, you pay Mike Vick for going to prison and Pacman for sitting out. These guys are talented but nobody knows to what extent guys are talented coming out of college. College talent doesn't necessarily equal NFL talent. Character concerns cannot be the sole basis for selecting a guy but it has to be considered. If two players are near equals, then you character has to be the deciding factor.

I sort of agree with you here, but I think guys like Pacman and Vick are anomalies more than the trend. The league is certainly cracking down on character issues, but that policy gives some players with 'questionable' character a smaller bidding price which can create some value for prospective teams. Its part of the risk/reward give and take that you should consider with acquiring new players.

[Cambl2Moss]

Confusing post. You seem to defend the mentioned players' character initially, then you go on to say that their character doesn't really matter.

Character is pretty important to me, and I agree that a lot of unfair judgements are made of people based on qualities unrelated to character (rapper, gold teeth).

Well since you are the only person confused by the thread, I dont know what to tell you

[GIBBS4PREZ]

Cambl2Moss, cut it with the racist crap. Geeze. If people like you would just ignore it than it would go away. But your the type that likes to stir things up, I understand.

As for the people that say talent before character, you have no clue what character is. The patriots that won those three Super Bowls, those teams had character. You can't say they were the most talented team, but they did things the right way. They followed all the rules. Someone said look at Moss now, just the reason why I stopped getting on this message board. Too many low i.q.'s. Moss new he couldn't act that way in New England. He knew he was playing for a new contract and that if he didn't act appropriately his @$$ would be benched. Just consider the fact that the skins have had some of the most "TALENTED" teams the past 8 or so years and what have we done. You guys are the type of fan that make it hard to root for the skins.

[PA Skin Fan]

It depends on what you define as "character".

I think the type of character that matters to a football team is putting the team first, desire to study film/ be the best that you can be, intense competitiveness and will to win, and being coachable.

These qualities I believe are indespensible and if a talented player does not have these qualities, their talent will not be maximized in the long run and many times these are the players that become "BUSTS".

I would prefer to find players that are both TALENTED and have this type of CHARACTER. I don't care if someone has gold teeth, raps, etc, that's their own thing and they can do what they want. But are they going to listen to the coach, play together with the team and not be a team cancer? Are they going to give it all they have every game? That's character to me.

I don't think most Skins fans care if someone's a choirboy - I think that's a misinterpretation of the word character and it's importance in football.

Look at are HOF's in the Gibbs era - Darrell Green, Art Monk, John Riggins, Coach Gibbs. Different personalities, interests, etc, but ALL of them 1) put the team first, 2) put in extra work to be the best they could be, 3) were INTENSELY competitive and had a strong will to win, and 4) Were coachable or teachable.

[GIBBS4PREZ]

And how is it racist. I think you have the racist outlook considering that you mentioned all black players. Hmmm.... Why is that?

[peanut0862]

The op is saying we are racist for not wanting people like Chad because he has gold teeth or Randy because he got in a little trouble. You say we need people like this to win the superbowl but neither of these players have won one. So maybe we are not racist we just want to win it all and these players that you mentioned instead of getting their team there they get in their teams way.

[Gart Monk]

The smarter team usually prevails over the more talented team.

[LoudMouth12thMan]

I'd rather have a Jason Campbell than a Pacman Jones....both black (as if color matters ) It's not racist to point out that someone is an idiot. Character matters man. Sadly b/c the majority of the players in the NFL are African American, its easy for guys like you to call people like me "racist." I call it like I see it no matter what color a person is. I don't like flashy fake "rappers" or athletes, and I don't like "musicians" that gel their hair and have assloads of tattoos and scream into a microphone about how pathetic life is. What's the difference? I have as much disdain for any of those kind of people.

I don't care to associate myself with people like that. I'm I prejudiced? Maybe, but there's a difference between that and racism. Randy Moss, Adam Jones, Tank Johnson, etc are or were talented, but I wouldn't wear their jerseys if you paid me to. My favorite player on our team is ST. He had some issues, but he wasn't arrogant or flashy on or off the field. He took care of business, and trouble followed him instead of him following trouble. There's a difference. Character is huge, and if you risk bringing guys in that can't handle themselves professionally like a Campbell, Randle El, Rogers, Santana (the list goes on), then you're playing with fire from a bad pub' standpoint and a locker room morale standpoint as well.

[illone]

I'd rather have Jason Campbell and Shawn Springs than Michael Vick and Pacman Jones even though Vick and Pacman are clearly superior players.

:2cents:

[Recent Vintage]

thread is too long, and I'll admit I didn't read it

but I feel the same way about Jared Allen's DUI's as I do about anything any black players have done.

Just in case that hadn't been mentioned

Food for thought: If you don't mind Allen's DUI but are miffed by black player's DUI's then you might just be a racist.

[eljeasel]

charecter and talent have got to both be considered in who you want on your team.

There are super talented teams but have so many issues that they fighting an uphill battle before they take the field. Take the Bengals for example, lots of talent of that team (ok, lots is a bit much) but its real hard to win ballgames when your guys are banned from the league, fighting charges, or dont get along well enough to play together.

On the other hand you could have a team full of untalented Joes but they get along great and are always available to play. This team can win too but they will have a hard time doing so cause they just dont have the talent to do so.

So it seems like both have a huge part in the success of your team. You need to have enough talent to get you by (which might be a very high level) and they talent you have needs to be able to play on sundays and play together (because what good is it to have talent on the roster if it isnt playing?).

[adamyesme1111]

And it's not like he was just rapping about anything...he was rapping about his team in celebration...how anyone could compare that to BLoyd trying to rap is beyond me.

Well they are both recievers and they both rap...thats a comparison :doh:

Even though Malcolm Kelley probably isn't a big dip**** like Lloyd it is EASY to make a comparison ?

I don't think anyone realy thinks Malcolm Kelley is LIKE Lloyd but, um you can deffinitely compare them.

[adamyesme1111]

I'd rather have Jason Campbell and Shawn Springs than Michael Vick and Pacman Jones even though Vick and Pacman are clearly superior players.

:2cents:

I agreee

Well I am not so sure about Michael Vick being a better player. He certainly ran all of the falcons offence but I am not sure that the throwing ability Campbell is going to have is less valuable then him just running all the time.

Springs and Pacman are pretty close too, but I guess Pacman makes more big plays

but I get what your saying and I agree

[SittingBull]

I think most of you guys are interpreting the original post incorrectly. He's saying that he's mad that rapping and gold teeth are considered character flaws rather than judging character by their work ethic and unselfishness.

[DarrellsMyHero28]

Yeah I agree with SittingBull but the unfortunate fact is alot of people really do see rapping and gold teeth as a character flag...

[joeknows]

your kidding right? character isnt important? gimme a friggin break. i dont want TO, MOSS, PACMAN or any other degenerate soiling my teams reputation.

if you dont have character and integrity..... then what do you have?

i became a skins fane when i was a kid and loved how our team stuck together and if a fight broke out on the field you had an entire team on you in seconds.

good people create brotherhood! people like TO and MOSS etc destroy the locker room and create division within a team.

think about it..... do you work better with people you trust .... people of high character and integrity..... or do you work better with half assed lazy degenerates that no matter how well they perform..... think that success came only because of them?

i would rather lose with a team that realizes we all failed than have a randy or to, tell a locker room full that it was everyones fault but theirs as to why they lost.

[Fieldy]

Well they are both recievers and they both rap...thats a comparison :doh:

Even though Malcolm Kelley probably isn't a big dip**** like Lloyd it is EASY to make a comparison ?

I don't think anyone realy thinks Malcolm Kelley is LIKE Lloyd but, um you can deffinitely compare them.

I simply meant that you can't really compare their rapping. Admittedly I don't know the full story about BLoyd but I was under the impression he was trying to start a rap career. Someone rapping to get his team pumped up in the locker room is completely different IMO.

[HailfrmDEN]

Alot of the time when people cry racism because they dont wont to deal with the truth. Acting out is a character flaw. If you need attention just to deal with life there is something wrong with your brain. True confidence doesn't look outward it looks inward. I will never know what it is like to be black but when mexicans throw things at me and yell you white piece of crap as they drive by, it will never effect me because i know I am a good person. Being a good person is not easly, there is no benefit in doin what is right, because right doesn't aways mean it is right for you. Sorry for the rant I am having a bad day and this topic just gets me goin.