DjTj Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 This options in this poll are woefully inadequate.Yeah, if these were our options, we'd be pretty much screwed.An immediate withdrawal would be ridiculous. It's not like the Viet Cong are gaining popular support and holding territory, and things just aren't bad enough to immediately withdraw. Our goal, however, should be to withdraw. We need to start withdrawing and turning security over to Iraqis ... if they can't protect their own country, they will never have stability and certainly not democracy. I think the whole timetable/benchmarks/deadlines debate really kind of misses the point. Whatever we do, it has to be gradual, and it has to be focused on getting ourselves out of Iraq. Either staying indefinitely or leaving now shouldn't be our goal, even if those appear to be our only two choices in the upcoming election. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 I guess they are all around screwed then....maybe we should just leave if the "elected" government can't be trusted The Soviets had severly penatrated our goverment (the person in the FBI that was in charge of counter-Soviet operation worked for the Soviets). The Chinese have given illegal campaign contributions to somebody that became President for reasons that are still unknown. Maybe we should just have forfeited our goverment over to the Soviets or currently to the Chinese? Just because a goverment has been infiltrated doesn't mean that it is incapable of operating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 I can't vote in this poll. If the only change in our foreign policy is the withdrawal from Iraq, then we can't simply do that alone. If we are to continue this empire, we might as well get some fruit from our labor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SnyderShrugged Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Curious, How would you guys feel about withdrawl if the Iraqi government came out and said..."Please leave now, thanks for the help but we've got it from here". We pretty much would have to leave on those terms, regardless of your political stripes, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_cavalierman Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Curious, How would you guys feel about withdrawl if the Iraqi government came out and said..."Please leave now, thanks for the help but we've got it from here".We pretty much would have to leave on those terms, regardless of your political stripes, right? If they are truly not a puppet of the US then yes.... If they are an excuse for a new US base then we ignore their "elected" government's request. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twa Posted March 1, 2008 Share Posted March 1, 2008 Curious, How would you guys feel about withdrawl if the Iraqi government came out and said..."Please leave now, thanks for the help but we've got it from here".We pretty much would have to leave on those terms, regardless of your political stripes, right? I eagerly await that date....you do know they have that ability now,but for obvious reasons have not acted on it? Something else that keeps being mentioned Quote DJTJ...(not to single him out) ""Our goal, however, should be to withdraw. We need to start withdrawing and turning security over to Iraqis ... if they can't protect their own country, they will never have stability and certainly not democracy."" There have been amazing strides made in both their capabilities and responsibilities taken over(civilian and military)....there is of course a ways to go,both in logistic support and elsewhere. You simply do not hear it much on the news for some reason. I hear it firsthand from those there,and it is reported to the press. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PeterMP Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Curious, How would you guys feel about withdrawl if the Iraqi government came out and said..."Please leave now, thanks for the help but we've got it from here".We pretty much would have to leave on those terms, regardless of your political stripes, right? Yes, we'd have to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Quote DJTJ...(not to single him out)""Our goal, however, should be to withdraw. We need to start withdrawing and turning security over to Iraqis ... if they can't protect their own country, they will never have stability and certainly not democracy."" There have been amazing strides made in both their capabilities and responsibilities taken over(civilian and military)....there is of course a ways to go,both in logistic support and elsewhere. You simply do not hear it much on the news for some reason. I hear it firsthand from those there,and it is reported to the press. It will be reported when it becomes something tangible. As I said, I think it happens when we start to withdraw. If we can withdraw like a third of our troops, and Iraq doesn't descend into chaos, then the story will be how the Iraqis are able to handle their own security.Results on the ground in Iraq are hard to quantify ... anecdotes are nice, but they don't impact the American people. Bring some troops home, and then people will believe that the Iraqis are making progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_cavalierman Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 If Gas were $1 a gallon then that would be some evidence this occupation has been worth it. But gas is $3 a gallon and people's energy bills have gone up so what exactly is the ROI? Please do not say the Iraq occupation has anything at all to do with our safety. That dawg won't even get off the porch...let alone hunt anymore... Our economy is down for the count so anyone selling a long stay in an election year better be coming up with a ROI that the American people can see/feel/use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koolblue13 Posted March 2, 2008 Author Share Posted March 2, 2008 Yeah, if these were our options, we'd be pretty much screwed.An immediate withdrawal would be ridiculous. It's not like the Viet Cong are gaining popular support and holding territory, and things just aren't bad enough to immediately withdraw. . That was kind of my point Dj. With our potential canidates for POTUS, it seems like they are saying we either withdraw sooner than later or never.I really just wanted to see what people thought. My opinion is we should be doing every and anything we can do to get out, it seems some people want to just plug along and except that we may never leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Helter_Skelter Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Should never have went. It could have been avoided. Whenever we leave, be it a gradual withdraw or we pull the troops all at once, they will focus thier efforts in attempt to overthrow the current regime. Other countries in the region will then become more involed in the power struggle for obvious reasons. If we completly withdraw from the conflict, we lose the economic and military "interests" in which we invaded for. If we stay, we spend ourselves into oblivion and are only putting off the inevitable. Damned either way. We need out, but the consequences of either choice are negative. Unfortunatly, this can happen when an imperialist ideology backfires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnhay Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Stay with conditions....1. Give the Iraqis some serious deadlines/benchmarks to get stuff done but keep it SECRET so that the terrorists do not know. 2. Train, equip and assist Iraqi police volunteers and this time do not give up on the effort. We've tried this twice and failed at the cost of millions of tax payer dollars. Impress upon the Iraqis that they are the only ones that can secure their country. 3. Lock that lazy @ss Iraqi Coalition government in a room with no food and access to bathrooms and make them reach agreements that are best for Iraq. I do not want to abandon Iraq but they are definitely on barrowed time as far as my money and patience are concerned. I agree with you. There should be a timeline, but it shouldn't be announced at some White House press conference. We need the Iraqis to do more to stabilize their own country too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The_cavalierman Posted March 2, 2008 Share Posted March 2, 2008 Ultimately it is the Iraqi people that will determine the success or failure of their country. American troops and American money can only go so far. Until the Shia, Sunni and Khurds put aside those ethnic/religious labels and start thinking and acting like Iraqis they will continue to squabble and Americans will continue to do all the heavy lifting while they act helpless and scream they need us. IMO Iraq is nothing more than a military administered social program. We are building/repairing schools and other infastructure for them, feeding them, providing free healthcare and free security. This would be considered welfare by any standard. I do not want to abandon Iraq but I do not want our troops doing all the heavy lifting while these folks aren't doing anything for themselves. It is time to hold that Iraqi government accountable for serious progress. America should only help those that help themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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