Zguy28 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Why do we need a universal healthcare program? Because many people cannot afford healthcare insurance. Why can't people afford healthcare insurance? Because the cost is high. Why do people need healthcare insurance? Because the cost of healthcare w/o insurance is even higher. Why is the cost of insurance so high? Because healthcare costs are high from the medical practicioner. Why are healthcare costs so high from the medical practicioner? Because of the high cost of malpractice insurance? OR Do doctors get paid too much? Is that even part of the problem? Why is malpractice insurance so costly? Because of frivolous malpractice lawsuits? I could be way off, but isn't the need for universal healthcare ultimately a case of shooting ourselves in the foot as a nation? I'm trying to understand how we got into a state where people (like myself) can't afford to go to the doctor, even with Blue Cross/Blue Shield. Help me understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 You could have also added, who is filing the frivolous law suits? People with nothing to lose that have plenty of time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 here is 659 replies from a week ago. http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238170&highlight=universal+healthcare and see the signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoSkins561 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 here is 659 replies from a week ago.http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238170&highlight=universal+healthcare and see the signature. Canada has always had very high gas prices on top of several other heavily taxed items to help pay for their government programs. Can you imagine the outrage when we are paying $5.00+ for a gallon of gas, on top of increased income and sales taxes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tom [Giants fan] Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 It was costing me $800 per month for just myself and that was over a year ago. It is close to $900 now. Thankfully, I have a job where the health cost is only reasonable but still expensive. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Help me understand. It is not about money. And it makes as much sense as our government feeling the need to be involved in the mail business, or the education business. It is about a philosophy. A philosophy that says the government is the cure for all our ills. Both literally and figuratively. For many people it is comforting to think there will ALWAYS be a mom and dad to take care of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 here is 659 replies from a week ago.http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showthread.php?t=238170&highlight=universal+healthcare and see the signature. Your signature is actually what got me thinking about this. So you are responsible for the thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKurp Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Or, one might want to some personal responsibility for the problem. The bottom line is, insurance is a gambling game. The insurers are betting that they won't have to pay out more than they collect in premiums. The insurees are betting that what they pay in premiums will be less than the cost of their health care. I'm not saying that there aren't some glaring inefficiencies in how today's health care systems are run, but to point the finger solely at the system and not accept personal responsibility for contributing to the high cost of health care is disingenuous. The prevailing attitude in this country is that people seem to feel they have a right to overindulge and lead sedentary lives and then expect doctors to fix the problems that result from that lifestyle. Universal health care would exacerbate that prevailing attitude and give people even less incentive to accept personal responsibility for their health. In the meantime, those people who do choose to eat right and exercise will have to pay far more than their fare share to support universal health care. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zguy28 Posted February 21, 2008 Author Share Posted February 21, 2008 It is not about money. And it makes as much sense as our government feeling the need to be involved in the mail business, or the education business.It is not about service to the people. It is about a philosophy. A philosophy that says the government is the cure for all our ills. Both literally and figuratively. For many people it is comforting to think there will ALWAYS be a mom and dad to take care of you. Biased much? Seriously, it may be about philosophy, but philosophy hasn't caused it to be accepted by a lot more people than in the past. The reason it is becoming a more popular philosophy is because of money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Or, one might want to some personal responsibility for the problem.The bottom line is, insurance is a gambling game. The insurers are betting that they won't have to pay out more than they collect in premiums. The insurees are betting that what they pay in premiums will be less than the cost of their health care. I'm not saying that there aren't some glaring inefficiencies in how today's health care systems are run, but to point the finger solely at the system and not accept personal responsibility for contributing to the high cost of health care is disingenuous. The prevailing attitude in this country is that people seem to feel they have a right to overindulge and lead sedentary lives and then expect doctors to fix the problems that result from that lifestyle. Universal health care would exacerbate that prevailing attitude and give people even less incentive to accept personal responsibility for their health. In the meantime, those people who do choose to eat right and exercise will have to pay far more than their fare share to support universal health care. Many, many insurance carriers got hammered post 9/11. Both in actually payouts involved with 9/11 AND with poor investment strategies that caused major losses. I have heard that the profit margin with insurance companies is not between income and payout. It is how they manage (invest) the money while it is in their hands. We are paying today for some really bad economic times five years ago. And your other points are good ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GibbsFactor Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Why do we need a universal healthcare program?Because many people cannot afford healthcare insurance. Why can't people afford healthcare insurance? Because the cost is high. Why do people need healthcare insurance? Because the cost of healthcare w/o insurance is even higher. Why is the cost of insurance so high? Because healthcare costs are high from the medical practicioner. Why are healthcare costs so high from the medical practicioner? Because of the high cost of malpractice insurance? OR Do doctors get paid too much? Is that even part of the problem? Why is malpractice insurance so costly? Because of frivolous malpractice lawsuits? I could be way off, but isn't the need for universal healthcare ultimately a case of shooting ourselves in the foot as a nation? I'm trying to understand how we got into a state where people (like myself) can't afford to go to the doctor, even with Blue Cross/Blue Shield. Help me understand. American Corporate Capitalism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Biased much? Seriously, it may be about philosophy, but philosophy hasn't caused it to be accepted by a lot more people than in the past. The reason it is becoming a more popular philosophy is because of money. To ME, the health of my family trumps all. How many people cry the blues about healthcare cost yet live with $2,500 per month mortgages and $700 per month car payments....with 56 inch LCD TV's....eating out three days a week and twice a week at McDonalds.....who has leaned how to cook with flour, protein, and staple items instead of buying processed (and much more expensive and unhealthy) convenience items in the grocery? Kurp is on point. Take some personal responsibility. And MAYBE consider healthcost to be equal to the importance of cutting the mortgage payment. For those that truly suffer financial hardship. TAKE CARE OF THEM. But do not mandate converage for all in the process. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonez3 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Why are healthcare costs so high from the medical practicioner? Do doctors get paid too much? . If people think doctor's get paid too much,find me a profession that gets paid as less with the same level of higher education. Thus, a physician in this country has a minimum of 11 years of training and education before they earn their full salary- the median primary care salary of about 150K. (keep in mind this is usually around an 60-80 hour week) Whoppededamndo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 American Corporate Capitalism. I fear for any other option. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thiebear Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Your signature is actually what got me thinking about this. So you are responsible for the thread. If your quoting me, you should just apologize now for being wrong and move on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 If people think doctor's get paid too much,find me a profession that gets paid as less with the same level of higher education.Thus, a physician in this country has a minimum of 11 years of training and education before they earn their full salary- the median primary care salary of about 150K. Whoppededamndo. Find me a doctor for less than that.I will find you a Portisizzle and family that will go out of his way to avoid him/her. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonez3 Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Find me a doctor for less than that.I will find you a Portisizzle and family that will go out of his way to avoid him/her. :2cents: That earns less than that? Median salary for this country's PCP is @~ 150K. Do some PCP's make more? yes. Do some very good PCP's make less? Yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 That earns less than that?Median salary for this country's PCP is @~ 150K. Do some PCP's make more? yes. Do some very good PCP's make less? Yes I am saying I do not want to go to the lowest bidder when it comes to my families health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheKurp Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 If people think doctor's get paid too much,find me a profession that gets paid as less with the same level of higher education.Thus, a physician in this country has a minimum of 11 years of training and education before they earn their full salary- the median primary care salary of about 150K. Whoppededamndo. Fortunately, I have found an excellent doctor who is bucking the traditional way doctors operate today. He decided to break away from group practice because he felt that the overhead costs of running an office forced the doctors to squeeze as many patients in a day as possible. He said on average he was allowed to spend 10 minutes with each patient. Being technically savy, he decided to go into private practice and use his technical skills to eliminate having to rely on others to support his computer system and phone systems. He eliminated the need for medical transcriptionists via the use of a voice recognition software. He has a receptionist but no nurse. From the minute you walk through his door from the lobby he takes your temperature, blood pressure, and weight. I have never spent less than 30 minutes with him for a routine checkup. He asks many questions of me and focuses on preventive care. While he is making more money than he was in group practice, I was shocked to find out that he is barely making more than I am as a software engineer. (Yes, he is that open with me.) He said he would make one recommendation to anyone who is thinking about becoming a doctor; DON'T. And if you still want to, he recommends choosing a field where patients come to you for what they want, and not for what they need. In other words, there is far more money in cosmetic surgery than there is in almost any other field. I thought that was very telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 I am saying I do not want to go to the lowest bidder when it comes to my families health.And that's exactly why the free market system has failed in health care.If people are not comparison shopping, costs will continue to rise. The product-to-customer relationship in health care has no downward pressure on price. When people are sick, they are willing to pay any price to get healthy. Nobody shops around for the cheapest doctor; we try to find the best doctor at any price. If cost doesn't factor into our market decisions, costs will continue to rise. :2cents: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Kurp, In the face of the political climate, I can not think of one good reason why someone would want to be a doctor. Interesting perspective. My doctor is the same. Small unassuming office. Inexpensive flooring. Two administrative assistants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 And that's exactly why the free market system has failed in health care.If people are not comparison shopping, costs will continue to rise. The product-to-customer relationship in health care has no downward pressure on price. When people are sick, they are willing to pay any price to get healthy. Nobody shops around for the cheapest doctor; we try to find the best doctor at any price. If cost doesn't factor into our market decisions, costs will continue to rise. :2cents: Did the lowest bidder get the contract to build the space shuttle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Did the lowest bidder get the contract to build the space shuttle?As far as I know, yes they did. Rockwell builds the orbiter, Lockheed builds the external tank, and Boeing builds the solid rocket boosters ... I assume we got that split due to competitive bidding. :whoknows: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
portisizzle Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 As far as I know, yes they did. Rockwell builds the orbiter, Lockheed builds the external tank, and Boeing builds the solid rocket boosters ... I assume we got that split due to competitive bidding. :whoknows: The project was too big for one contractor. You are missing the point. Do you buy the cheapest TV, car....etc. Is there anything you are willing to pay a premium for? Like a heart surgeon if needed?:whoknows: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hokie4redskins Posted February 21, 2008 Share Posted February 21, 2008 Why do we need another thread on universal healthcare? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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