Since when does trash talker=team cancer???

[Gibbs=TheBestEver]

Part of the Deal with 85 is that the team has dumped on him all year and blamed him for everything that went wrong with the organization. That being said, there are times when CJ grabs attention to the detriment of team chemistry. As ParkCitySkins said, the best approach is to keep a cautious eye on him: consider picking him up for the right price if all of our coaches and team leaders are on board with the decision: we don't want to disrupt the chemistry we have going

[Santana_Fan]

i

I'm so tired of hearing the chad Johnson is a cancer crap! If we don't get him I hope he goes to a team that he can destroy us. Maybe then we will finally learn that we need playmakers not suspect talent!!!

I am too. The word "cancer" IMO on this board, is like a replacement for saying the don't like a specific player. Let's just keep getting good character guys, because around here, it seems like it's "character" that wins games.

[Aireskoi]

Just for DirtySkin21 but using the quote for emphasis.

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/AB/20080131/SPT02/801310333/

Q: Who does have your back?

A: T.J. (Houshmandzadeh) has my back. Carson (Palmer). That's it. That's really it.

That right there is enough. Why call out all of your teammates like that. He doesn't get that it is a team sport.

Why would he have to instruct his teammates on the field to run and get his yellow jacket (HOF) to put on him for his stupid celebration, when they are supposed to be trying to play football. He only cares about himself.

He is under contract, a very nice one, to play for the Bengals. When his HC told him to tone down the celebrations because they are distracting the team, he pouts and cries to the media. Why deal with this?

The question about trash talkers was posed as a age issue, but really it is a maturity question. Some people grow up sooner than others, Chad should have by now. No one is bigger than the game.

The biggest reason I say no to Chad, is because his reason for wanting out is he doesn't like loosing. Well WTF makes him so much better than the other 1,642 active players in the NFL that didn't win the Superbowl. He has become a cancer to the Bengals.

[[[ghost]]]

The answer is "who cares".

The team is junk, it's full of some of the lowest character guys in the league. The coach has zero control over any of it.

Over the course of MANY years the Bengals have proven time and again they have absolutely NO idea how to spot talent, keep talent, work with talent, they are a team that has had exactly ONE winning season in the last 17 years.

If they actually endorsed a player, I'd say he was defective.

~Bang

You're wrong. Its not the criminals and thugs that are the problem with the Bengals, it's Johnson- the lone bright spot in the Franchises' past 17 years.

I am too. The word "cancer" IMO on this board, is like a replacement for saying the don't like a specific player. Let's just keep getting good character guys, because around here, it seems like it's "character" that wins games.

He's only a Cancer because they don't want him here. By definition, he is far from a Cancer.

The word Cancer isn't even being used loosely, its just used conveniently. Its borderline propaganda- if a Player is characterized as a TO type player long enough, people will begin to agree with Anti-85s.

[Bang]

]']You're wrong. Its not the criminals and thugs that are the problem with the Bengals' date=' it's Johnson- the lone bright spot in the Franchises' past 17 years.

[/quote']

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Good one.

To close out my comments on the subject, the Bengals say they aren't trading him, and even if they DO, I really doubt it will be to us.

~Bang

[Santana_Fan]

]']You're wrong. Its not the criminals and thugs that are the problem with the Bengals' date=' it's Johnson- the lone bright spot in the Franchises' past 17 years.

He's only a Cancer because they don't want him here. By definition, he is far from a Cancer.

The word Cancer isn't even being used loosely, its just used conveniently. Its borderline propaganda- if a Player is characterized as a TO type player long enough, people will begin to agree with Anti-85s.[/quote']

T.J. definitely sticks up for Johnson for a reason too. T.J. knows without Johnson on the opposite side of him, his stats wouldn't be what they are. Same for Palmer (if he didn't have Chad). Not taking anything away from Palmer though. Trust, if Chad was a cancer, the main leader of the Offense wouldn't be trying to keep him there. People crack on Chad all the time for his celebrations, although it is a business, it's also entertainment.

[bu7ch]

]']And Im sure you are far more knowledgable on that subject than the rest of us.

That post would be much more informative if it wasnt all a complete lie.

And for the last time' date=' Its a well known fact that both Carson and CJ regularly verbally attack each other. Its convenient that you left out the fact that both have already come up and publicly state that they do it to bring out the best in each other.

You mind providing us proof of him faking an injury, running the wrong route, avoiding a hit on 4th, or sitting and pouting?

if a single Skins reciever did any one of those things, he would have been cut the next day. Your entire post is complete BS.[/quote']

Hilarious...I watch him every week in Cincy and have been to games for the past 20 years. I'd love to provide a video but the NFL doesn't look kindly upon it's own videos on Youtube.

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/thesupposedbuckles/2007/12/02/Pittsburgh_Steelers_Post_Game_Week_13_vs_Cinncinati

Chad Johnson again had little impact against the Steelers, but did have a great whoops moment when he stepped out of bounds on 4th and 17 after only gaining 14 yards. [\quote]

Can't find video of the actual hit in Cleveland but I wouldn't lie about people considering his 'injury' to be questionable as he didn't even appear to be hit (sandwiched between two Browns).

Routes:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/2007-10-18-2798274765_x.htm

Carson Palmer apologizing for uncharacteristic outbursts

I've witnessed, on option routes, Chad run past the safety when it's clear they're in a two deep and the underneath is wiiiiiiiide open. Carson let him have it and apologized because he's just being diplomatic (think Gibbs as a QB, seriously he rarely calls anyone out).

http://blogs.bengalszone.com/

Lewis let “Chad be Chad” to the detriment of his team. It was a decision Lewis hoped would pay off in production and wins but it turned out not to be the case. So for letting Chad tear the team apart at halftime of the Pittsburgh playoff loss, and for having Chad’s back whenever he decided to sit and pout during a fumble, or fume and ***** on the sidelines, Marvin gets the ice pick in the back.

And other witnesses:

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/bengals/2008/01/chad-trade-me-to-dolphins.asp

What else do you want to be wrong on?

Hell, Don't forget his Funny Bone comedy club scandal. Instead of giving away the Lexus as the main prize he gave it to his girlfriend.

[[[ghost]]]

I wonder if bu7ch was talking about this route when he said 85 runs all the wrong routes.

T.J. definitely sticks up for Johnson for a reason too. T.J. knows without Johnson on the opposite side of him, his stats wouldn't be what they are. Same for Palmer (if he didn't have Chad). Not taking anything away from Palmer though. Trust, if Chad was a cancer, the main leader of the Offense wouldn't be trying to keep him there. People crack on Chad all the time for his celebrations, although it is a business, it's also entertainment.

I'd stick up for Johnson too if he taught me how to be a Great reciever, then took all the double teams to free me up.

Hell, if I'm a Rookie QB, I wouldn't mind a WR who could even make Jon Kitna the NFLs Comeback Player of the Year.

[bu7ch]

]']

Hell' date=' if I'm a Rookie QB, I wouldn't mind a WR who could even make Jon Kitna the NFLs Comeback Player of the Year.[/quote']

What is Kitna doing now, what is Chad doing now and what was their record together? Ah...losing. I'm a Skins fan, I want the best. Chad just isn't a good fit.

More Chad antics:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071024/EDIT01/710240314

"When Lewis' failings as a disciplinarian and leader arise, as they have this season, Chad is cited as Exhibit A," Daugherty wrote. "It's hard to preach Team when 10 guys are huddling up and the 11th is over there chatting up the Patriots defense. Or talking to Bill Belichick between plays or jumping into the other team's crowd or indulging in me-only stunts. And the coach does nothing about it."

Oh...and before you debate this, the writer is the author of Chad's book.

Funny Bone lawsuit for giving the lexus to his g/f

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=4a8433cf-13cc-4771-8840-13f9a9b84bac

Oh...where's the lie? You may want to go edit that post of yours as it's completely and factually wrong.

[IrepDC]

This thread wasn't intended to be another Chad Johnson thread but since so many people have brought him up I will speak on him.

Some people on here are saying #85 is a team cancer. Why? Because he wants out of Cincy? CJ has undoubtedly worked as hard as or harder than ANY receiver since he's been in the league. He's not only consistant on the field(top 5 in catches, yards, and TD's over the past 4 years), he's consistant off the field(always in the gym, film room, or practice field). When a man puts THAT much effort into his craft and is surrounded by an organiztion like the Bengals, that does not seem to share his passion for football or winning, why WOULDN'T he want out?! He's been loyal for 7 years, in which they've had ONE winning season. It's not like he wanted out after one bad season. Maybe he is just fed up with the BS. And since the Bengals are not known for their character players outside of Carson and TJ I wouldn't expect many guys to stand up for him.

Remember, this is not a case of a team putting a player on the trade block because he's a cancer, the Bengals WANT #85, this is a case of a player fed up with a poorly run franchise. A player whom has consistantly performed on and off the field to help his team. Because outside of catching balls and working his a** off in the gym, Chad can't do much to help his team win. And Chad has consistantly done the things he has to do to help his team. It's not his fault that all of the men around him, coaches and players, aren't as dedicated.

[[[ghost]]]

Hilarious...I watch him every week in Cincy and have been to games for the past 20 years. I'd love to provide a video but the NFL doesn't look kindly upon it's own videos on Youtube.

http://community.foxsports.com/blogs/thesupposedbuckles/2007/12/02/Pittsburgh_Steelers_Post_Game_Week_13_vs_Cinncinati

Chad Johnson again had little impact against the Steelers, but did have a great whoops moment when he stepped out of bounds on 4th and 17 after only gaining 14 yards. [\quote]

Can't find video of the actual hit in Cleveland but I wouldn't lie about people considering his 'injury' to be questionable as he didn't even appear to be hit (sandwiched between two Browns).

Routes:

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/football/2007-10-18-2798274765_x.htm

I've witnessed, on option routes, Chad run past the safety when it's clear they're in a two deep and the underneath is wiiiiiiiide open. Carson let him have it and apologized because he's just being diplomatic (think Gibbs as a QB, seriously he rarely calls anyone out).

http://blogs.bengalszone.com/

And other witnesses:

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/bengals/2008/01/chad-trade-me-to-dolphins.asp

What else do you want to be wrong on?

You're original comment called CJ out for:

-Running the Wrong Route

-A Fake Injury

-Alligator Arms

-Stepping Out of Bounds

-Sitting and Pouting after a Fumble

You're proof of his "fake injury," was... that it didn't look like the kind of hit you'd get injured from. Thats hardly proof, and even less reputable considering the source.

Anyone who knows anything about Football knows that you can't tell a damn thing about an injury just by analyzing the moment at which the player got injured. If that wasn't true, than explain how McNabb tore his ACL last season, when he looked like he just slipped on the sideline.

You say he ran the wrong route, and cited USA Today. Let's discuss some quotes from that article.

During a 34-13 loss to New England, Johnson ran the wrong route near the goal line late in the first half, when the Bengals had a chance to keep the game close. After Palmer's throw was intercepted because Johnson wasn't where he should have been, the quarterback berated him on the field.

So he ran the wrong route (once) in a blow out game. While one example is hardly enough evidence to say a Reciever is a horrible route runner, it does prove that Carson immediately went after Johnson after the play. I wonder how many anti-85s will deny now that both CJ and Palmer critique each other constantly. Its evident that Palmer *****es on the Sideline at CJ just as much as CJ dishes it back at Palmer.

Furthermore,

"New England - that was on me," Johnson said this week. "It's all on me. You can't blame him. He's the Golden Boy."

I wonder if this is yet another example of CJ being a Cancer.

You're other source was a One sentence blog. Not only does that hardly prove what a terrible person Chad Johnson is, but reading most of the comments will tell the average Fan that anyone from Cincinatti realized that the whole interview was in jest, and that the whole "Call me Parcells," wasn't exactly another example of 85 being a Cancer.

You also said he stepped out of bounds on 4th to avoid a hit.

All you cited was Chad Johnson getting a gain of 14 on 4th and 17. It doesn't say he ran out of bounds, it doesn't say he avoided a hit. Yet another example of people seeing what they want to see.

You also failed to prove that he "sat and pouted," after a fumble. And even if he did, I'd rather him sit and pout then jump up and down enthusiastically, unless you would deem that kind of reaction appropriate.

What is Kitna doing now, what is Chad doing now and what was their record together? Ah...losing. I'm a Skins fan, I want the best. Chad just isn't a good fit.

More Chad antics:

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20071024/EDIT01/710240314

Oh...and before you debate this, the writer is the author of Chad's book.

Funny Bone lawsuit for giving the lexus to his g/f

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=4a8433cf-13cc-4771-8840-13f9a9b84bac

Oh...where's the lie? You may want to go edit that post of yours as it's completely and factually wrong.

So, once again, you're blaming CJ for his defense failing to capitalize on his 10TD, 1100+ yard season? Moss put up similar numbers in '05, and I wonder if you realized that his season coupled with a solid defense led his team to the playoffs. Notice how the one season where his defense was actually good, his team won its division.

Additionally, the author blames CJ for being the reason that Marvin Lewis blows as a HC. I wonder how CJ is the only example of Marvin Lewis being a bad disciplinarian when his entire defense is out getting thrown into jail.

There is nothing different about CJ trash talking to the Pats, when compared to Fred Smoot talking the same trash to every other WR he lines up against. I wonder how much of a cancer Rogers, Washington, and Taylor all were in '06 when the regularly danced in between plays.

You're lies are everywhere. Half of them you fail to even attempt to substantiate. The other half you spin to make it seem as if CJ is this player out to destroy his team, when in reality he's just a talented WR stuck in a ****hole of a Football team.

[wildbill1952]

True, team cancer does not equal trash talking. For that matter neither does the occasional "bad boy" routine. If so, Smoot, who fell into our #2 draft spot and out of the #1 because of some indiscrete and illegal activities prior to his final semester would be considered that cancer. Or perhaps because of the "Love Boat" fiasco. And the "Smoot Smack" is just trash talking masquerading as an art form. Yet Smoot is loved by most Redskin fans and his teammates.

So if it isn't trash talking and it isn't the boorish, stupid behavior, what is "team cancer"?

Cancer is something that destroys. By definition, a "team cancer" is someone who destroys the team, causes harm to the team, or kills a team, teammates, or the team mentality.

How does the "team cancer" do this? Any of several ways work. Putting yourself above the interests of the team is one. "Just give me the darn ball." An assertion that one WR is so much better than all of the other receivers on the team is one indication of a team cancer. He shows disrespect for the other receivers on the team by insinuating that he is the only receiver worthy of getting the ball. Even if he is, talent-wise, leaps and bounds ahead of his teammates in talent, to assert that he is the only one worthy of getting the football thrown to him is an insult to his teammates and typical of the "me first" attitude that is so prevalent in most sports today. Putting that added pressure on the QB and the coaches (a teammate) to get him the ball more causes harm to that teammate and the team.

A more telling example came between T.O. and McNabb. The press loves to put these type of stories in the news. T.O. was always available to the press and loudly proclaiming his side of the story. McNabb kept the rhetoric professional and chose to deal directly with T.O. When teammates have problems, as any two co-workers might, the real rofessional goes one-on-one with the person to work through those differences. The "team cancer" tries to swing the court of public opinion by opening his mouth trying to persuade all of the uninvolved to be on his side.

It's almost like the mob mentality vs. the man mentality. The mob is several people shouting with no dissension allowed attempting to get the crowd to go their way. The man is calm, eliciting discussion and attempting to influence by strength of character, leadership and logic.

So is a trash talker a team cancer? That would not be the criteria by which I judge the accused. I guess a team cancer is like art. With art, I know it when I see it. With a team cancer, I know him when I hear him.

[bu7ch]

You also failed to prove that he "sat and pouted' date='" after a fumble. And even if he did, I'd rather him sit and pout then jump up and down enthusiastically, unless you would deem that kind of reaction appropriate.[/quote']

Except he let the defender return the fumble while sitting there on his butt....

How exactly do you want video evidence of wrong route running/timing if the NFL doesn't allow it's video reproduced (much less specific camera angles)? I watched it, I've seen it; the blogs/witnesses/usatoday provides corroboration.

Of course Chad and Carson yell at each other...it's because one of them is wrong, why else would they be screaming at each other? In the pressers it's always Carson taking the blame. Check out Bengals.com and see how he handles it (like I said he seems like a Gibbs-eque QB). I tried to snip that quote so I'll have to edit this to go back for the rest.

All you cited was Chad Johnson getting a gain of 14 on 4th and 17. It doesn't say he ran out of bounds, it doesn't say he avoided a hit. Yet another example of people seeing what they want to see.

You're right, I thought he was avoiding a hit but I can now picture him backing out of bounds (go look that up if you can find it because I know I'm right) on that 4th down...besides I cited a steelers site! Who else would make that up?

There is nothing different about CJ trash talking to the Pats, when compared to Fred Smoot talking the same trash to every other WR he lines up against. I wonder how much of a cancer Rogers, Washington, and Taylor all were in '06 when the regularly danced in between plays.

I cited that, did you read it? he didn't trash talk...he was just TALKING to the other coach while his teammates were in the huddle! Hell, Belichek was smiling.

You're lies are everywhere. Half of them you fail to even attempt to substantiate. The other half you spin to make it seem as if CJ is this player out to destroy his team, when in reality he's just a talented WR stuck in a ****hole of a Football team.

If my lies are *everywhere* then why are only half of them substantiated?

Yet another witness

. He doesn't block, steps out of bounds when his QB throws a block,and sits on the field after he fumbles,without going after the opposing player.A mimi T.O. perhaps ? They have the same agent !

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/01/30/ocho-cinco-i-never-said-i-wanted-a-trade/

Trust me. Chad is fun to watch, not to have on your team. I think you missed that in my last post. We're all on the same team so I have no idea why you doubt me or the people I cite...unless you're the Shark lol

[[[ghost]]]

Except he let the defender return the fumble while sitting there on his butt....

How exactly do you want video evidence of wrong route running/timing if the NFL doesn't allow it's video reproduced (much less specific camera angles)? I watched it, I've seen it; the blogs/witnesses/usatoday provides corroboration.

Of course Chad and Carson yell at each other...it's because one of them is wrong, why else would they be screaming at each other? In the pressers it's always Carson taking the blame. Check out Bengals.com and see how he handles it (like I said he seems like a Gibbs-eque QB). I tried to snip that quote so I'll have to edit this to go back for the rest.

You're right, I thought he was avoiding a hit but I can now picture him backing out of bounds (go look that up if you can find it because I know I'm right) on that 4th down...besides I cited a steelers site! Who else would make that up?

I cited that, did you read it? he didn't trash talk...he was just TALKING to the other coach while his teammates were in the huddle! Hell, Belichek was smiling.

If my lies are *everywhere* then why are only half of them substantiated?

Yet another witness

http://sports.aol.com/fanhouse/2008/01/30/ocho-cinco-i-never-said-i-wanted-a-trade/

Silly me, I forgot that CJ is always wrong, and thats why they always yell at each other. Its not like they both do it all the damn time because they expect the best out of each other.

I wonder who was yelling at whom when Carson threw his 8 Touchdowns and 1,400 yards to CJ this past season... and the year before that... and the year before that.

If it was from a Steelers website, they would have Glorified their Rival's WR avoiding a hit. I saw no mention of him running out of bounds for no reason. Hell, this board wouldn't let Terry Glenn's alligator arms from '05 go for 2 years, you think that the Steelers wouldn't bring that up in the recap article?

You have to remember, we're using the word "substantiate," for lack of a better term. If there was a term that defined pathetic and failed attempts to prove an incorrect point, then that would be it. You tried to substantiate you're bogus claims with hardly reputable sources. the one time you DID finally prove on of your points, it was hardly enough to prove the point indefinitely.

If you don't believe me with your silly sources, then explain to me why you would use an AOL Blog as a source as to why CJ is the worst receiver ever. Even if it was a respected source, the blogger him/herself does the same thing you did- state huge lies and fail to prove them.

[bu7ch]

]']

If it was from a Steelers website' date=' they would have Glorified their Rival's WR avoiding a hit. I saw no mention of him running out of bounds for no reason. Hell, this board wouldn't let Terry Glenn's alligator arms from '05 go for 2 years, you think that the Steelers wouldn't bring that up in the recap article?[/quote']

I think you missed the quote. It was a whoops moment for Chad...Check it out. They let him have it for that one.

If you don't believe me with your silly sources, then explain to me why you would use an AOL Blog as a source as to why CJ is the worst receiver ever. Even if it was a respected source, the blogger him/herself does the same thing you did- state huge lies and fail to prove them

It's difficult to find beat reporters calling guys out, a random witness found via google helps the ol' credibility to show that I didn't witness something that never happened. Hell, the Bengals came up with the loyalty clause that's now obsolete but they make sure that it's loosely enforced.

Better yet, I hijacked this thing for too long. If you'd like, pm me and we can chat some more. I didn't mean to turn this into a anti chad vs chad battle.

[[[ghost]]]

Trust me. Chad is fun to watch, not to have on your team. I think you missed that in my last post. We're all on the same team so I have no idea why you doubt me or the people I cite...unless you're the Shark lol

I don't doubt your opinion, I just sincerely feel their misguided. I'd be open to admitting I'm wrong, but none of the sources you put up clearly proved that CJ is a bad route runner, or that he gets alligator arms.

[bu7ch]

]']I don't doubt your opinion' date=' I just sincerely feel their misguided. I'd be open to admitting I'm wrong, but none of the sources you put up clearly proved that CJ is a bad route runner, or that he gets alligator arms.[/quote']

Oh...I never meant to say he was a bad route runner, just that he ran the *wrong* routes at times (specifically on option routes).

They aren't misguided. If you watched him week in and week out you'd understand. The sources you want aren't going to show the clips I'm talking about nor post the news stories. If you didn't see it, chances are they won't be posted anywhere. Trust me, I'm not trying to be a dick for no reason.

Believe me, I'd love to show you the clips but I can't find any on youtube. In my previously edited post I'd be happy to keep up the dialogue on pm but I didn't mean to hijack the thread. I just responding over and over till I realized that it got out of hand.

Besides we all want whats best for the Skins anyways. I hope Vinny and Dan put this much effort into decisions.

[Gigantor]

I'm old school and here is my opinion on this subject.

There are two forms of trash talking:

1) On the field trash taking. I have no problem with this and in fact like it as long as it doesn't create penalties. A good example of this is Bryan Mitchell, one of my all time favorite players because he never, ever quit, no matter what the score board said.

2) "On mike" trash talking. This is trash talking off the field, comments made to the media. It only pisses the other team's players off and is counter productive.

I'm all for the #1 kind of trash talking and in fact like it, especially when the player can back it up with deeds on the playing field. I hate the #2 kind of trash talking and think that a player who routinely involves himself in this behavior is indeed a cancer because it's counter productive.

[bu7ch]

I'm old school and here is my opinion on this subject.

There are two forms of trash talking:

1) On the field trash taking. I have no problem with this and in fact like it as long as it doesn't create penalties. A good example of this is Bryan Mitchell, one of my all time favorite players because he never, ever quit, no matter what the score board said.

2) "On mike" trash talking. This is trash talking off the field, comments made to the media. It only pisses the other team's players off and is counter productive.

I'm all for the #1 kind of trash talking and in fact like it, especially when the player can back it up with deeds on the playing field. I hate the #2 kind of trash talking and think that a player who routinely involves himself in this behavior is indeed a cancer because it's counter productive.

I'm sorta old school and I don't mind either as long as it's not the Anthony Smith (or whomever the Steelers Safety was)...still, it's annoying to have to hear that someone is sending Pepto Bismol to the other team's secondary only to see yourself shrink to mortal status.

[Pimpey42000]

I just fail to see how Chad Johnson is causing the rest of his team to not be professional. Someone catch me up, PLEASE!!!!

[bu7ch]

I just fail to see how Chad Johnson is causing the rest of his team to not be professional. Someone catch me up, PLEASE!!!!

Outside of a few players...blame the "GM'' which is the owner, his daughter and his son-in-law. ANd you guys thought Vinny was bad.

It's not that Chad is making his team less professional, it's how he's going about it.

[hiswadeness]

Cj is a good WR. but I wouldn't give up an early round draft pick for any WR on the wrong side of 30.

[turbodiesel#44]

]']Hence' date=' he's a team cancer.

Portis plays the same way. Good stats, interesting celebrations, and extremely competitive.

Around here, a player is a Cancer if you don't support him. Portis is only a cancer to McD5. Johnson is a Cancer because some people feel all we need to do is draft 8 DEs and we'll win the Super Bowl.[/quote']CP doesn't request that other teams give him a call on national TV. CP doesn't cry about the huge contract he signed and try to weasel out. CP has not attempted to cut ties with his team or team mates. Huge difference.

[Pimpey42000]

A team is meant to be professional, right! If a team allows a player to become a cancer than that team is letting itself get hurt, right???? When I say team I mean those players who control the game that is being played on the field. Obviously the coaches are responsible for managing the flow of the game and other off-field priorities...the players should be able to step up since they are pro's and resolve the situation as it is. (but this isn't a perfect world either)

[[[ghost]]]

Oh...I never meant to say he was a bad route runner, just that he ran the *wrong* routes at times (specifically on option routes).

They aren't misguided. If you watched him week in and week out you'd understand. The sources you want aren't going to show the clips I'm talking about nor post the news stories. If you didn't see it, chances are they won't be posted anywhere. Trust me, I'm not trying to be a dick for no reason.

Believe me, I'd love to show you the clips but I can't find any on youtube. In my previously edited post I'd be happy to keep up the dialogue on pm but I didn't mean to hijack the thread. I just responding over and over till I realized that it got out of hand.

Besides we all want whats best for the Skins anyways. I hope Vinny and Dan put this much effort into decisions.

Ah well, it would be kind of hard to defend your posts if getting the evidence is impossible to come by. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

CP doesn't request that other teams give him a call on national TV. CP doesn't cry about the huge contract he signed and try to weasel out. CP has not attempted to cut ties with his team or team mates. Huge difference.

CJ joked about like 4 teams over the past few weeks. All of them were in jest. Its just the media eating it up. Johnson hasn't cried about a contract, so I don't understand where you could have gotten that bit of info. And Johnson never cut ties with his team mates, most of them never had the ties to begin with. Blame that either on the Bengals for drafting such low character guys, or blame it on the thugs themselves, but it goes both ways. He seemed to have an excellent relationship with Palmer and Houshmanzadeh, you know, those guys he paved the Pro Bowl path for.