I am NASCAR retarded...Help me out!

[Skins247]

you think Gordon is the best there is or ever was or ever will be?

man you HAVE to be kidding me!! He is a great driver, but Smoke is a better driver then Gordon is.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Edit: I can't say he will be the best ever, no. I don't think anyone can say that. But best, now? Certainly!

[Skins247]

OK. here we go: deep breath in...deep breath out.

He has half as many wins as Martin in 1/3 the career. He is more well known the Martin will EVER be and NOT just cuz of his dad. His dad didnt get him the Budweiser sponsor, his dad didnt win him the Busch championship. His dad got his foot in the door and he has a GREAT last name, but so does Walter Payton and Michael Jordan's sons and they havent ever done **** with it. JR has carried his own weight in the sport on and off the track since he got in a car. JR has had problems with DEI and the engines that they kept building that blew up like firecrackers last year. NOBODY can win with 12 DNFs. And as far as Mark having a great or exceptional career, thats YOUR opinion. Mine is that he is a pretty good driver that never had what it took to get to the next level and win one.

Dude, again, learn to read what is written. I already said that comparing the two drivers is not really a good comparison. They are from two different eras. One is nearing the end of their career. The other trying to find his place. But if you actually think JR lives up to all the hpye then you're nuts. You would think the most popular driver in the sport would be the best, or one of the best drivers out there. Hell, he's not even close. He would be hard-pressed to crack the top ten, as far as best drivers out there. He's definitely not top 5. So that's why I consider him to be overrated. And I don't think you can even argue it, based on what I just mentioned.

As far as DEI and his problems. Well, he hasn't won in, what, 62 races? It isn't just last year where he's had his problems, man. Its been well over a year since he's been in victory lane, bro. And I won't argue he hasn't had as good of equipment as some others. That's why I said now he doesn't have any more excuses. If he doesn't go to victory lane now, regularly, then its on him. And he's echoed these same sentiments in the media. Both when he was hired on at Hendrick, and as recently as a few days ago.

And, dude. Seriously, you're WAY out to lunch about Mark Martin. There are few, if any, experts on the sport out there that would agree with you that Martin hasn't had a great career. And the fact that he hasn't won a title further proves just how difficult it is to win a title with the great drivers out there. Think about it, man. He was competing against the Gordons, Earnhardt, Petty, Waltrip, Wallace, Jarrett of old. As well as Gordon, Stewart, Kenseth etc of today. And, if memory serves me right, he lost the title one year by just a few points. He's been right there several times, only to come up short. Therefore, I wouldn't say he "didn't have what it took" to win one. That's crazy. And, again. LOTS of great players in many different sports never won a title either. Your career isn't totally defined by how many titles you win, dude. Get off that.

[Skins247]

Dude, again, learn to read what is written. I already said that comparing the two drivers is not really a good comparison. They are from two different eras. One is nearing the end of their career. The other trying to find his place. But if you actually think JR lives up to all the hpye then you're nuts. You would think the most popular driver in the sport would be the best, or one of the best drivers out there. Hell, he's not even close. He would be hard-pressed to crack the top ten, as far as best drivers out there. He's definitely not top 5. So that's why I consider him to be overrated. And I don't think you can even argue it, based on what I just mentioned.

As far as DEI and his problems. Well, he hasn't won in, what, 62 races? It isn't just last year where he's had his problems, man. Its been well over a year since he's been in victory lane, bro. And I won't argue he hasn't had as good of equipment as some others. That's why I said now he doesn't have any more excuses. If he doesn't go to victory lane now, regularly, then its on him. And he's echoed these same sentiments in the media. Both when he was hired on at Hendrick, and as recently as a few days ago.

And, dude. Seriously, you're WAY out to lunch about Mark Martin. There are few, if any, experts on the sport out there that would agree with you that Martin hasn't had a great career. And the fact that he hasn't won a title further proves just how difficult it is to win a title with the great drivers out there. Think about it, man. He was competing against the Gordons, Earnhardt, Petty, Waltrip, Wallace, Jarrett of old. As well as Gordon, Stewart, Kenseth etc of today. And, if memory serves me right, he lost the title one year by just a few points. He's been right there several times, only to come up short. Therefore, I wouldn't say he "didn't have what it took" to win one. That's crazy. And, again. LOTS of great players in many different sports never won a title either. Your career isn't totally defined by how many titles you win, dude. Get off that.

:laugh: Glaring omission. He's also competing today with some guy named Jimmie Johnson. Can't believe I left out the guy that has won back-to-back titles.:doh:

[BigMike619]

Dude, again, learn to read what is written. I already said that comparing the two drivers is not really a good comparison. They are from two different eras. One is nearing the end of their career. The other trying to find his place. But if you actually think JR lives up to all the hpye then you're nuts. You would think the most popular driver in the sport would be the best, or one of the best drivers out there. Hell, he's not even close. He would be hard-pressed to crack the top ten, as far as best drivers out there. He's definitely not top 5. So that's why I consider him to be overrated. And I don't think you can even argue it, based on what I just mentioned.

As far as DEI and his problems. Well, he hasn't won in, what, 62 races? It isn't just last year where he's had his problems, man. Its been well over a year since he's been in victory lane, bro. And I won't argue he hasn't had as good of equipment as some others. That's why I said now he doesn't have any more excuses. If he doesn't go to victory lane now, regularly, then its on him. And he's echoed these same sentiments in the media. Both when he was hired on at Hendrick, and as recently as a few days ago.

And, dude. Seriously, you're WAY out to lunch about Mark Martin. There are few, if any, experts on the sport out there that would agree with you that Martin hasn't had a great career. And the fact that he hasn't won a title further proves just how difficult it is to win a title with the great drivers out there. Think about it, man. He was competing against the Gordons, Earnhardt, Petty, Waltrip, Wallace, Jarrett of old. As well as Gordon, Stewart, Kenseth etc of today. And, if memory serves me right, he lost the title one year by just a few points. He's been right there several times, only to come up short. Therefore, I wouldn't say he "didn't have what it took" to win one. That's crazy. And, again. LOTS of great players in many different sports never won a title either. Your career isn't totally defined by how many titles you win, dude. Get off that.

man youre trying your hardest to force your OPINION on to me and get me to agree with you just because you say some "experts" say so and you think so too. Good for you bro, but Im not going to just go along with this because of some dude who writes 4 overly written paragraphs. I think it is funny that you say that championships dont make the driver who he is yet when you talk about Gordon being the best you mention how soon he got 5 championships. And then you mention how CLOSE martin has come several times. And whenever you hear Petty and Sr they say 7 time champion. Yet thats not a big deal right? You need to get off that BS then because you are looking foolish by playing both sides of that coin.

I agree with the pressure being on him now. But so far so good.

PS. I love how you get into calling me nuts and saying I dont know what Im talking about just because you dont agree. Shows that you have great debating skills when you resort to that.

And Mark was a OK driver back in the days when he was young too. He has 35 wins in 27 years and thats a stellar career?

[BigMike619]

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Edit: I can't say he will be the best ever, no. I don't think anyone can say that. But best, now? Certainly!

sure he is the best now...right behind Mark Martin right?

[JimmyConway]

Pick up the latest Sports Illustrated. It has a good NASCAR preview.

[Skins247]

man youre trying your hardest to force your OPINION on to me and get me to agree with you just because you say some "experts" say so and you think so too. Good for you bro, but Im not going to just go along with this because of some dude who writes 4 overly written paragraphs. I think it is funny that you say that championships dont make the driver who he is yet when you talk about Gordon being the best you mention how soon he got 5 championships. And then you mention how CLOSE martin has come several times. And whenever you hear Petty and Sr they say 7 time champion. Yet thats not a big deal right? You need to get off that BS then because you are looking foolish by playing both sides of that coin.

I agree with the pressure being on him now. But so far so good.

PS. I love how you get into calling me nuts and saying I dont know what Im talking about just because you dont agree. Shows that you have great debating skills when you resort to that.

And Mark was a OK driver back in the days when he was young too. He has 35 wins in 27 years and thats a stellar career?

I'm not trying to force anything on you, man. I just find some of your opinions ridiculous, that's all. And if you don't agree Martin has had a great career, then that's on you. You're certainly in the minority, there. And I didn't say championships weren't important. Learn how to read. I said they aren't EVERYTHING. Especially when you've came as close to winning several titles, as Martin has. AGAIN, LOTS of great athletes in EVERY sport, even HALL OF FAMERS like Marino, have failed to win a title. And that doesn't take anything away from what they accomplished in their careers. And I never said Gordon has 5 titles, dude. He has 4. I said, had it not been for the current points system, he would have a few more. Btw, dude. I love how you act like 35 wins is nothing. Do you realize that Terry Labonte has won two titles, and in one of those years he won ONE race! Further, Kenseth only won two races the year he won his only title. Are those two drivers scrubs, too?:laugh: And im not calling you nuts for disagreeing with me on all this. But I just find it comical how little credit you give Mark Martin. Totally ridiculous.

[Skins247]

sure he is the best now...right behind Mark Martin right?

[RememberOsaka]

Ok. I am not sure if I am still NASCAR retarded but definitely a little behind the class if you will.

1. Can they come up with a better name than "pole sitter" ??? That sounds really ghey.

2. When they go to commercial the action doesn't stop. And they go to commercial A LOT. Like that **** would work in football.

3. Tony Stewart has more Chins than a Chinese phonebook.

4. If I could replace the last 4 hours of my life with Racheal Ray reruns...I gladly would.

[Skins247]

Ok. I am not sure if I am still NASCAR retarded but definitely a little behind the class if you will.

1. Can they come up with a better name than "pole sitter" ??? That sounds really ghey.

2. When they go to commercial the action doesn't stop. And they go to commercial A LOT. Like that **** would work in football.

3. Tony Stewart has more Chins than a Chinese phonebook.

4. If I could replace the last 4 hours of my life with Racheal Ray reruns...I gladly would.

They have to have alot of commericials. They are a big reason for the success of Nascar. They have to pay their bills like any other business. And in football they have many stoppages in play. (timeouts, injuries) Obviously you can't stop a race for every commerical. It will never go away. So I suggest you will just need to learn to live with it.

[RememberOsaka]

So I suggest you will just need to learn to live with it.

Sorry but I won't be "living with it" ....

I'd rather watch my DVR'd copy of the Westminster Kennel Club dog show for 24 hours straight than watch another NASCAR race.

[Skins247]

Sorry but I won't be "living with it" ....

I'd rather watch my DVR'd copy of the Westminster Kennel Club dog show for 24 hours straight than watch another NASCAR race.

That's on you, man. No one is making you watch it. But why go to the trouble of making posts in a "Nascar" message if you hate it so much?

[RememberOsaka]

That's on you, man. No one is making you watch it. But why go to the trouble of making posts in a "Nascar" message if you hate it so much?

Because I started the thread in hopes of understanding it...I guess that I'm just not smart enough to get it and enjoy it

:doh:

[Skins247]

Because I started the thread in hopes of understanding it...I guess that I'm just not smart enough to get it and enjoy it

:doh:

So, you start a thread with hopes of learning more about it and possibly trying to get into it, yet you bash it by saying you'd rather watch a dog show? Gotcha!

[BigMike619]

man Skins247 you sure have made alot of friends here with your high and mighty attitude. way to go buddy..

your constant "dude" and your knowitall attitude didnt seem to get you anywhere now did it? unless you consider that 2 people now think you are being arrogant when its not even needed as an accomplishment. You wanna sit here and bash people like me who dont agree with you and then try to belittle us into believing what you do by using condescending words and sounding like you are high and mighty. my suggetion to you is to just let it go and stop trying to act like you are the be all/end all of NASCAR.

[WARLORD1863]

Because I started the thread in hopes of understanding it...I guess that I'm just not smart enough to get it and enjoy it

:doh:

It does seem like you have a habit of putting down the sport in some of your posts, like the comment about gladly replacing the 4 hours of watching nascar with rachel ray... or watching the taped dog show. When you started this thread you attracted big nascar fans, guys who follow nascar like they follow the redskins. I'm just saying it's difficult not to feel irked by these comments when you are speaking directly to big fans of the sport of nascar.

My advice to you, if you really want to make an attempt to become a fan, is to pick a driver or a team of drivers (like Joe Gibbs Racing, Hendrick Racing, DEI, etc.) and take it slowly. Follow their progress from week to week, where they finished and how many cup points they recieved for their finish in each race. Watch highlights or maybe a little bit of the race itself. Watching an entire race starting out will probably just confuse and bewilder you, and perhaps bore you to death if you don't know what to watch for.

I'm a big Joe Gibbs Racing fan, and became one because of the simple connection with Gibbs and the Redskins. That's all it took for me to pick a team. When I started out I took it slowly, just to get the jist of what was going on and why. After a couple of weeks I watched my first race but found myself flipping channels until the last 30 laps. Over time I became comfortable watching an entire race.

What you should also realize is that it's okay not to watch an entire race. It's not football where your eyes can't leave the screen for a second while they're doing a play. The race is constant. If you are bored, pay attention to it in the background while doing something else. Have a beer, talk to some buddies, fix the sink, whatever. But when you commit yourself to a racing team or driver, watching them perform can be incredibly exhilirating. The lead changes, going three-wide (sometimes four) on the track where the cars are mere inches away from contact with each other at 185 mph, battles for better positions along every turn, pit strategies that could win or lose races, and more.

Joe Gibbs Racing is very exciting to watch, especially during this past Daytona. You aren't going to find more aggressive drivers than Kyle Busch, Denny Hamlin, and Tony Stewart. I was at the edge of my seat with Kyle Busch barrelling through traffic in the last few laps.

Alright time to wrap up. In summary, if you're serious about making an attempt at the sport you must first commit to a driver or a racing team. It's not fun to watch any sport without choosing a team/player/driver. Then just take it slowly.

[Skins247]

man Skins247 you sure have made alot of friends here with your high and mighty attitude. way to go buddy..

your constant "dude" and your knowitall attitude didnt seem to get you anywhere now did it? unless you consider that 2 people now think you are being arrogant when its not even needed as an accomplishment. You wanna sit here and bash people like me who dont agree with you and then try to belittle us into believing what you do by using condescending words and sounding like you are high and mighty. my suggetion to you is to just let it go and stop trying to act like you are the be all/end all of NASCAR.

High and mighty attitude? I'm not sure where you get that, but whatever. I just found some of your comments ridiculous. I mean, here you are dissing one of the best ambassadors the sport of Nascar has ever had in Mark Martin. Your views of Martin are so off, man, its not even funny. How you get he is/was just an average driver is beyond me. Frankly, I don't know why I even wasted so much of my time arguing with you. You don't even know how to debate. You nitpick simple names like "dude" as if that is even relevant to anything. Anyway, when you feel like debating Nascar, "intelligently", let me know.

[Teller]

I don't think I've opened one thread tonight that has descended into BS and hostility. Are we really no better than this?

[Skins247]

It does seem like you have a habit of putting down the sport in some of your posts, like the comment about gladly replacing the 4 hours of watching nascar with rachel ray... or watching the taped dog show. When you started this thread you attracted big nascar fans, guys who follow nascar like they follow the redskins. I'm just saying it's difficult not to feel irked by these comments when you are speaking directly to big fans of the sport of nascar.

My advice to you, if you really want to make an attempt to become a fan, is to pick a driver or a team of drivers (like Joe Gibbs Racing, Hendrick Racing, DEI, etc.) and take it slowly. Follow their progress from week to week, where they finished and how many cup points they recieved for their finish in each race. Watch highlights or maybe a little bit of the race itself. Watching an entire race starting out will probably just confuse and bewilder you, and perhaps bore you to death if you don't know what to watch for.

I'm a big Joe Gibbs Racing fan, and became one because of the simple connection with Gibbs and the Redskins. That's all it took for me to pick a team. When I started out I took it slowly, just to get the jist of what was going on and why. After a couple of weeks I watched my first race but found myself flipping channels until the last 30 laps. Over time I became comfortable watching an entire race.

What you should also realize is that it's okay not to watch an entire race. It's not football where your eyes can't leave the screen for a second while they're doing a play. The race is constant. If you are bored, pay attention to it in the background while doing something else. Have a beer, talk to some buddies, fix the sink, whatever. But when you commit yourself to a racing team or driver, watching them perform can be incredibly exhilirating. The lead changes, going three-wide (sometimes four) on the track where the cars are mere inches away from contact with each other at 185 mph, battles for better positions along every turn, pit strategies that could win or lose races, and more.

Joe Gibbs Racing is very exciting to watch, especially during this past Daytona. You aren't going to find more aggressive drivers than Kyle Busch, Denny Hamlin, and Tony Stewart. I was at the edge of my seat with Kyle Busch barrelling through traffic in the last few laps.

Alright time to wrap up. In summary, if you're serious about making an attempt at the sport you must first commit to a driver or a racing team. It's not fun to watch any sport without choosing a team/player/driver. Then just take it slowly.

Great post, man. And you made some really nice points. As big a fan of I currently am of Nascar, I haven't always been. You're right, it takes time. It can be confusing when you're first getting into it. One thing that used to confuse me alot is when they would make pit stops. I never could quite understand how all that worked at first. Of how they pit stops "cycled" around and whatnot. And there were other confusing things. That's just one that I quite didn't understand at first.

And the one thing I hate the most about non-Nascar fans is the ones that go, "all they do is drive around in circles all day". That couldn't be further from the truth. There is so much strategy that goes on its unreal. And so much technology it takes to get the car in the right setup, etc. But I understand its a sport that not everyone is gonna like. I'm the same with hockey. Alot of people try telling me how great it is. But nothng they say will ever change my opinion of it.

[WARLORD1863]

And the one thing I hate the most about non-Nascar fans is the ones that go, "all they do is drive around in circles all day". That couldn't be further from the truth. There is so much strategy that goes on its unreal. And so much technology it takes to get the car in the right setup, etc.

I get that a lot from my friends who are fans of other forms of racing, like formula 1 and moto racing, as well as from non-racing fans. But those people simply don't understand nascar. I've heard a friend of mine undermind baseball by calling it "a game where one guy throws a ball and the other guy tries to hit it with a stick". The oversimplification shows ignorance.

Truth be told, I once said that nascar was nothing but driving in circles for 4 hours. That was before I committed to understanding the sport, and certainly have changed my view.

[stoshuaj]

ok, my 2 random nascar questions:

1. why do they have a "manufacturer's championship" (or cup, whatever) but if a manufacturer actually builds a better race car, they change the rules to keep them so that manufacturer won't be able to utilize it's advantage?

2. Has any sports governing body, or league, ever felt the "need" to openly promote one "player" over another as much as nascar does with Earnhardt? From what little I heard over the wknd, it would seems as though, if Junior doesn't do well, then nascar is afraid that they won't do well. Is that nec. a good thing for your league?

[riggins44]

ok, my 2 random nascar questions:

1. why do they have a "manufacturer's championship" (or cup, whatever) but if a manufacturer actually builds a better race car, they change the rules to keep them so that manufacturer won't be able to utilize it's advantage?

2. Has any sports governing body, or league, ever felt the "need" to openly promote one "player" over another as much as nascar does with Earnhardt? From what little I heard over the wknd, it would seems as though, if Junior doesn't do well, then nascar is afraid that they won't do well. Is that nec. a good thing for your league?

The Manufacturer's Championship is all about marketing. It's an advertising tool for Detroit. One thing you need to realize is that NASCAR fans are the most loyal of all sports.

Madison Ave. realized this few years ago and started that is when the big money started. To a true NASCAR fan, they won't drive a Chevy if their

driver is a Ford man or vice versa. There is a company that monitors how

much each car and it's sponsors are shown and mentioned during a race. They then convert this to dollars per showing. Potential and current sponsors can then see what they're getting.

Most sponsors see winning a race as added bonus. If car is up front and constantly being shown, they're receiving value by number of people that

see and hear their name.

It's hard to compare NASCAR to other major sports. The driver is the main

focal point. Automotive brand and team (i.e., JGR, Roush, or Hendricks) is

secondary. Golf is much like racing. Richard Petty and Arnold Palmer are

very similar, in that they had the charisma that gave their sport national

attention.

I'd would say that Dale Earnhardt is a lot like Jack Nicklaus. Both very popular

and dominant in respective sport. Difference is Earnhardt died before career

was over. Earnhardt still has a very loyal following. NASCAR has capitalized

on this.

I understand the questions about NASCAR from those that aren't fans. It's

like myself and ice hockey. I never watched a hockey game until '80 Olympics and only reason then was to see if USA could beat Russia. To this

day I don't understand or enjoy the sport. There are those that do and that's fine. Sure if took the time to learn about hockey that I may become a fan. I prefer to follow football and racing.

[GibbsFactor]

It does seem like you have a habit of putting down the sport in some of your posts, like the comment about gladly replacing the 4 hours of watching nascar with rachel ray... or watching the taped dog show. When you started this thread you attracted big nascar fans, guys who follow nascar like they follow the redskins. I'm just saying it's difficult not to feel irked by these comments when you are speaking directly to big fans of the sport of nascar.

My advice to you, if you really want to make an attempt to become a fan, is to pick a driver or a team of drivers (like Joe Gibbs Racing, Hendrick Racing, DEI, etc.) and take it slowly. Follow their progress from week to week, where they finished and how many cup points they recieved for their finish in each race. Watch highlights or maybe a little bit of the race itself. Watching an entire race starting out will probably just confuse and bewilder you, and perhaps bore you to death if you don't know what to watch for.

I'm a big Joe Gibbs Racing fan, and became one because of the simple connection with Gibbs and the Redskins. That's all it took for me to pick a team. When I started out I took it slowly, just to get the jist of what was going on and why. After a couple of weeks I watched my first race but found myself flipping channels until the last 30 laps. Over time I became comfortable watching an entire race.

What you should also realize is that it's okay not to watch an entire race. It's not football where your eyes can't leave the screen for a second while they're doing a play. The race is constant. If you are bored, pay attention to it in the background while doing something else. Have a beer, talk to some buddies, fix the sink, whatever. But when you commit yourself to a racing team or driver, watching them perform can be incredibly exhilirating. The lead changes, going three-wide (sometimes four) on the track where the cars are mere inches away from contact with each other at 185 mph, battles for better positions along every turn, pit strategies that could win or lose races, and more.

Joe Gibbs Racing is very exciting to watch, especially during this past Daytona. You aren't going to find more aggressive drivers than Kyle Busch, Denny Hamlin, and Tony Stewart. I was at the edge of my seat with Kyle Busch barrelling through traffic in the last few laps.

Alright time to wrap up. In summary, if you're serious about making an attempt at the sport you must first commit to a driver or a racing team. It's not fun to watch any sport without choosing a team/player/driver. Then just take it slowly.

Great advice!

The Daytona bored me a lot Sunday, and I am a huge fan. I tend to be a one driver fan, which sucks because when he's out of it, I lose interest quickly. I've started to accept success from other drivers which keeps me in it.

For a beginner, I'd recommend exactly what Warlord said. Pick a driver, doesn't matter how or why and just check up on him from week to week. Check the starting line up, the happy hour speeds and the results at the end. Watch the beginning 20 laps and the last 20 laps, don't try to sit through the whole thing at first. The middle of the race is all about strategy and setting up the car. It can get tedious, especially now with the COT. There's no "big excitement" as in wrecks and mishaps. Cars are very evenly matched so the setups the drivers make tend to be all the more important. It's a drivers sport more so then any other series.

[BigMike619]

High and mighty attitude? I'm not sure where you get that, but whatever. I just found some of your comments ridiculous. I mean, here you are dissing one of the best ambassadors the sport of Nascar has ever had in Mark Martin. Your views of Martin are so off, man, its not even funny. How you get he is/was just an average driver is beyond me. Frankly, I don't know why I even wasted so much of my time arguing with you. You don't even know how to debate. You nitpick simple names like "dude" as if that is even relevant to anything. Anyway, when you feel like debating Nascar, "intelligently", let me know.

I have been debating intelligently the whole time. You just dont like my opinion on it. He isnt that great of an ambassador to me as far as anything. Thats my opinion and I dont really need to see things your way. Ive been watching Mark Martin since his rookie season and I dont care for the man as a driver. Am I dissing him as a human being? No, but at the same time I am not trying to boost him up to something I dont feel he is. Maybe he is like Kyle Petty and will be best remembered for his time in the booth..

[Guest ComebackKing]

I love NASCAR but the first 150 laps or so were extremely boring. The end made up for it though, it usually does! About 40 laps to go when everyone shows what they really have is definitely the best part of any race.