Mike and Mike: 2 Teams with Great O-Line Play!

[wildbill1952]

Great thread. Several questions asked: my take below.

Q: Should we concentrate on O-Line at the expense of other needs in the draft?

A: Yes. You cannot win ganes if a. you don't score points b. if the defense is worn out by the 4th quarter in +3 or -3 point contest. c. if you become one-dimensional (as in we can't run). d. the defense is on the field the whole game because of 3-and-outs

e. if the red zone offense is restricted to passing only because the O-line can't get a one or two yard "push" (which is why we couldn't score within the 5 on first-and-goal)

Q: Do we get rid of Jansen and replace him with Heyer?

A: Heyer was a good acquisition by a team that had few options to replace their starting right tackle. But, as the Seattle game showed us, against top-notch competition, Heyer came up short. Jansen's high cost means he must go unless he restructures. Because he was injured last year, that makes his relative worth on the open market smaller. Therefore, the Skins should be able to restructure with less competition. However, because of his age, Jansen is unlikely to go through the season uninjured (same goes for Thomas). Heyer can function as a backup but as a first-string right tackle, he did not play all that well, forcing the skins to keep their #1 receiver and a back in to help block. That in turn, reduces the effectivemes of the offense and increases the number of defensive players available for blitzes and coverage. You need a right tackle that can stand on his own. Heyer is not that player. Jansen will not be that player all season. The only fix is to find top-notch talent through the draft or FA. The draft is cheaper.

Q: What about Thomas?

A: I love Thomas. But I loved my Uncle Bill , too, and as you get older, you slow down, you're more prone to imjury and he's as big as he's ever going to get. To quote someone: "You can't teach youth, speed, or size." Yes, we keep him, but we need a first or second rounder in the wings. When that one is ready or when Thomas gets injured again, then youth has to start.

Q: Why not a DE or a CB or a 6'3" WR?

A: Because the phrase "Quality Oline are available in later rounds" is not accurate based on history of Redskin drafts. In the past 10 years, any O-linemen we drafted past the third round has never played a down for the Redskins after the season started. Those that we draft in the first 3 rounds are still playing football. (Dockery, Samuels, Jansen).

Based on the performance of the Defense vs the Offense during the past 3 years, our greatest need is the offense. So we draft to help the Offense. We don't need TE, we don't need RB, we don't need QB. A 6'3" possession receiver is great on a wish list, but is a useless addition if the QB doesn't have time to throw the ball. (Replay the Seattle game and see the wide-open Santana when Collins was getting creamed.) As far as offense is concerned, get the O-line fixed first. They take about half a season to develop and contribute for 7 or 8 years. Avoid the big splash with a WR. Without protection for the QB, or a possibility of a run game, he's useless.

Q: What makes you think drafting quality O-line is better than drafting anywhere else first?

A: See the 1981 draft that was made prior to the two greatest offensive Redskins teams of history, the 1982 and 1983 Redskins. We didn't have a pick in the second round that year, but we drafted Mark May (OT) and Russ Grimm (G) as our first and second picks.

Hands down, our D has been world class above our offense for the entire Gibbs/GW era. I would love to draft 32 first round picks and get 32 all-Proo FA's. But we can't. Our D has shown they can stand up to the competition. Our O can't. So picking anything but offense now is a mistake.

The history of Redskin draft picks of the past show that 1st round WR picks are extrememly expensive and almost always a bust. We haven't had anything but busts since Art Monk in 1980 (of WR's drafted with our first pick). All of the linemen we draft in the first 3 rounds make the team and contribute. Those "quality offensive linemen drafted in the later rounds" have not made a SKins team in over 10 years. (Going back in history, we do have other quality linemen, like Bostic and Jacoby, but they weren't drafted.)

[The_cavalierman]

I guess easier said then done. What is the average draft position for a guard, right or left? I'm not sure if we should draft one any higher then the 3rd round. Just a guess.

It really depends upon the talent level and potential of the player.

Their were some excellent guards in last years draft. Not sure about this year.

[SkinsMaster88]

Our line was dominant in 2006 before injuries devastated them in 2007. Now, it's definitely true that now it's aging quite a bit with every player above or around 30 years old. The key thing is having young depth like Heyer rather than older backups like Fabini and Wade. It's definitely a position to add depth to as we move on, but I feel that they can still be good for a couple more years, barring injury (and injury-wise you can say that about almost any team in the NFL).

[mcarey032]

No offense to Fabini, he played pretty well for us, but he is no way shape or form the answer going forward. Yes he played well, but he got beat a lot as well. I liked the way Heyer stepped up for us. I think that if we can get a good guard, then we can solidify the line play. I know that Randy has been the beast for us and Kendall too, but we do need to have some depth as it clearly hurt our running and passin game in the playoffs. Kendall and Thomas are awesome, but they are getting some wear on them as well and we really need to think about getting depth so that we don't have the problems that we had this season.

[Veretax]

In regard to Heyer's performance, wasn't this largely due to the fact that we had to double team with Fabini and leave our back/TE/FB out on the right to block?

I agree with most everything WildBill said except for WR, its not that first round WRs are such a bust, its that our team SUCKS at picking quality first round WRs, This goes back at least as far as Desmond Howard. I'd rather get someone in the 2nd or third, someone who is hungry and will work hard. SOmeone like say Marcus Monk, Or Adarius Bowman, that is IF we are drafting O-Line.

[Coach Janky Spanky]

Wade and Jansen would be decent backups to Samuels and Heyer. But who knows how well Jansen will reciver and if Wade can stay healthy either.

Jansen should start over Heyer. Before he was injured, Jansen has been solid for us. Heyer stepped in well, but he often had help blocking on his side. We can't forget that Heyer is an undrafted free agent, while Jansen is a proven veteran. We do need to add young players to the O-line, but we have to start our best players.

[Veretax]

Which is what I've been saying, give Heyer the chance to beat out jansen, If he doesn't then the best man starts. If he does, same deal

[Awesome]

Trade down, trade down, trade down. You draft oline in the middle rounds. Someone's always looking to move into the late first round, like us, two years ago, and offer up a good mid-round pick or two. For this team, the best player available tactic doesn't work. We need to target groomable depth at LT and G, but also could use a DE and CB. I say trade down and take a DE in the early 2nd round, then go Oline and WR in the mid to late rounds.

[Ty Garcia]

If Jansen and Kendall were upgraded, the team would be better off for sure. Heyer could beat out Jansen this summer, or Jansen could be released with such a big contract. I just think we can win with our existing line when healthy, and should focus on getting the D line playing at a higher level.

I would love a high motor LE who has to be double teamed every play and still finds the ball.

I agree with this statemant but we need this a defensive tackle that requires double teaming and clogging those holes up that with the blitzes we do will work!!!

[RFK Lives]

Offensive Line is probably the one place you can always draft and not get criticized. Even if you have a good starting line, they will analyze it as depth and mentoring.

I feel like the Patriots' O-Line has been unsung and I put most of the credit on them for the undefeated season. Once the Redskins reshuffled line started to gel at the end of the season, you saw the results on the field and the scoreboard. Watching the replay of SB XXII today just watching the Hogs wear down the Broncos was awesome.

I think the Giants did a little bit of that last night, wearing down the Packer D.

[QBSkin]

I agree defensive line that just takes over the game! Thats where we need some help.

[deejaydana]

Just look at all our Super Bowl teams. What common element did they have on offense? That's right, a dominating line. The game is won or lost in the trenches...and it always will be. If we don't draft on both O & D lines (significantly) in the draft this year I'm going to lose my mind. All four teams this past weekend had good to great O-line and D-lines. The game of football is not that complicated really.