Refreshing not to have QB turnovers!

[goldenster95]

Does the original poster do anything on this board but libel Jason Campbell and/or propagandize Todd Collins?

After Collins has a pretty shaky night where he completes a third of his throws, the poster comes here to start a thread reaching for some praise of Collins and, in turn, bashing Campbell. Yes, Collins was a part of why we won and it was certainly nice that there were no turnovers.

It's odd, though, when the poster chirps nary a peep on at least one throw where there wasn't a pick because the Giants' DB couldn't catch. And not once does he take issue with Collins' shortcomings that absolutely wrecked our offense in the early part of the game, that being his Danny Weurrfel-like arm that didn't allow him enough zip that Campbell certainly would have had. That gangly arm led us to eight straight incompletions, a dubious season high among QBs this year. We could go on about this arm issue. If he had a decent arm, he would've hit Moss for six on the throw where Moss was wide open. This line of reasoning could continue, but I'm sure you get the picture.

In short, the OP should home in on this newsflash: Todd Collins isn't the big story this week.

His adulation of Collins and concommitant crusade against Campbell is baffling. Suffice it to say that most of what he says is nonsense and that he can offer no one respectable that agrees with what he says. Indeed, when you get people like Peter King saying things like Campbell is rounding into one of the top 10 to 12 QBs in the league, you begin to understand how off base this dude is.

This guy reminds me of the old salty sailors swilling spirits in Cape Cod bars, who'd give each of their drinks names. I bet you Sonny is a big fan of Tom Collins, who he can't distinguish now from Todd Collins. Or he's Mrs. Todd Collins herself.

I don't know which is the case.

But this has gotten comical now.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

Apparently he's ignoring his own inconsistencies, which is a shame. I'd like to hear him attempt to reconcile them like his "RB TURNOVERS ARE NOT AS BAD AS QB TURNOVERS" argument he advocated earlier in the thread.

I love it how you fellas grasp at legs to stand on to defend JC. "Well Portis has fumbled", "well Gibbs sucks", "well the team let JC down", yada, yada, yada.

Not "advocating" anything Einstein. Has Portis blown games with bonehead interceptions at critical points of the game? If you want to start a thread about Portis and your belief he fumbles too much, have at it. This thread is simply celebrating the fact that we've had no QB interceptions for the past 2 weeks which is something we have not enjoyed this season when your hero has been under center. Oh, but wait, we can't blame JC for anything as it's never his fault. Right? :laugh: You guys are a hoot and clueless.

[SonnyJ]

No wonder why this organization is a joke for the past 15 yrs. No Qb development what so ever. Trent Green, Rich Gannon, pat Ramsey

This has unquestionably been the biggest impediment to organizational success since Gibbs I and, IMO, the biggest testament to the greatness of Gibbs in his first go-around. The fact that he was able to compile the record he did, despite the lack of a franchise QB, suggests perhaps the greatest coaching run ever.

I don't think it's fair to call them a joke because of it, though. The team's hands were tied in dealing with Green. You can blame JKC for that one. Gannon floundered around the league for numerous years before finally hitting his stride. He was more of a runner than a QB when he was with the team. Ramsey just couldn't learn to get rid of the ball. Maybe he would have been better served by holding the clipboard longer, but most guys just never quite develop that knack.

Finding a long-term franchise QB is the Holy Grail of NFL talent evaluators. It just doesn't happen that easily. It takes being really awful or just being plain lucky, or both. Colts getting Manning with the first pick in the draft. Patriots picking up Brady with their SECOND 6th round pick. Cowboys getting Romo sits to pee as an UDFA. I think Manning and Brady would have been elite no matter where they went, but Parcells did a sterling job developing Romo sits to pee, who probably would have failed miserably had he of been forced into playing early on in his career. But getting four seasons of development really prepared him well - by the time he stepped onto the field, he was raring to go. To me, that's the model for developing a QB, but it's really hard to hold a roster spot for someone who shouldn't see the field for multiple seasons.

[bobzmuda]

Yet another stupid, baseless attack by a JC lover. Grasping at straws to discredit anything negative said about their hero. :laugh:

Get back to us when you can actually see the forest through all those trees.

What are you talking about? I misread your argument and changed my post to state so. I have no problems admitting when I'm wrong. You, on the other hand, seem to have a problem with anything other than trolling.

If you're truly interested in doing something other than riling up the fanbase, you should post your full analysis of Campbell - not just the negatives. That might help assuage some of the natives.

[ttr77]

but it's really hard to hold a roster spot for someone who shouldn't see the field for multiple seasons.

Great post.

This is ESPECIALLY hard to do with a first round pick, with so much invested in him. I mean, how many years does JC have left on his rookie contract, 2 years? He needs to start showing exactly what he's capable of so this team knows what to do when that time comes.

[bobzmuda]

I love it how you fellas grasp at legs to stand on to defend JC. "Well Portis has fumbled", "well Gibbs sucks", "well the team let JC down", yada, yada, yada.

Not "advocating" anything Einstein. Has Portis blown games with bonehead interceptions at critical points of the game?

Okay, now so turnovers are only important at critical points of the game? I thought turnovers, whenever they occur, are brutal. Or do they only REALLY matter if they're at critical points of the game? You should really take one position, state it clearly, and stick with it. Your moving target arguments do not contribute to the discussion - they only cause things to go round and round.

If you want to start a thread about Portis and your belief he fumbles too much, have at it. This thread is simply celebrating the fact that we've had no QB interceptions for the past 2 weeks which is something we have not enjoyed this season when your hero has been under center. Oh, but wait, we can't blame JC for anything as it's never his fault. Right? :laugh: You guys are a hoot and clueless.

You still haven't reconciled your earlier position that Gibbs is to blame for the second half collapses and your current position that Campbell is to blame for the same. If you want to be taken as a serious contributor, please reconcile them, otherwise your posts seem to be nothing more than trollish in their attempt to paint Campbell as solely as a negative with no redeeming qualities and changing your arguments just to get a rise out of folks.

[skinfan2k]

Great post.

This is ESPECIALLY hard to do with a first round pick, with so much invested in him. I mean, how many years does JC have left on his rookie contract, 2 years? He needs to start showing exactly what he's capable of so this team knows what to do when that time comes.

and thats why next year is the decided factor for his stay or not

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

Does the original poster do anything on this board but libel Jason Campbell and/or propagandize Todd Collins?

After Collins has a pretty shaky night where he completes a third of his throws, the poster comes here to start a thread reaching for some praise of Collins and, in turn, bashing Campbell. Yes, Collins was a part of why we won and it was certainly nice that there were no turnovers.

It's odd, though, when the poster chirps nary a peep on at least one throw where there wasn't a pick because the Giants' DB couldn't catch. And not once does he take issue with Collins' shortcomings that absolutely wrecked our offense in the early part of the game, that being his Danny Weurrfel-like arm that didn't allow him enough zip that Campbell certainly would have had. That gangly arm led us to eight straight incompletions, a dubious season high among QBs this year. We could go on about this arm issue. If he had a decent arm, he would've hit Moss for six on the throw where Moss was wide open. This line of reasoning could continue, but I'm sure you get the picture.

In short, the OP should home in on this newsflash: Todd Collins isn't the big story this week.

His adulation of Collins and concommitant crusade against Campbell is baffling. Suffice it to say that most of what he says is nonsense and that he can offer no one respectable that agrees with what he says. Indeed, when you get people like Peter King saying things like Campbell is rounding into one of the top 10 to 12 QBs in the league, you begin to understand how off base this dude is.

This guy reminds me of the old salty sailors swilling spirits in Cape Cod bars, who'd give each of their drinks names. I bet you Sonny is a big fan of Tom Collins, who he can't distinguish now from Todd Collins. Or he's Mrs. Todd Collins herself.

I don't know which is the case.

But this has gotten comical now.

Does the author of the above thread have a clue of what QB play is? Does the author of above thread even watching the games? It is odd that he is so blindly loyal to JC that he is not witnessing what has happened on the field this season. Sure we've had our setbacks and struggles, but countless times his hero JC has been in a position to make a big play at an important point of the game, yet he has been unable to do so. Examples everywhere. Yet still the author of the above is ready to excuse him for any turnover and missed opportunity.

The guy reminds of the guy who will argue for hours upon hours why something that walks like a duck, swim likes a duck and quacks like a duck is really not a duck but a beautiful swan. :laugh:

The author of the above babbles on how anyone who has doubts about JC must be wearing the dunce cap.

As for me, I'm merely celebrating no costly interceptions out of our QB for the past 2 weeks and 2 straight wins, something the author above seems to take real issue with. Go figure. This really is comical.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

Okay, now so turnovers are only important at critical points of the game? I thought turnovers, whenever they occur, are brutal. Or do they only REALLY matter if they're at critical points of the game? You should really take one position, state it clearly, and stick with it. Your moving target arguments do not contribute to the discussion - they only cause things to go round and round.

You still haven't reconciled your earlier position that Gibbs is to blame for the second half collapses and your current position that Campbell is to blame for the same. If you want to be taken as a serious contributor, please reconcile them, otherwise your posts seem to be nothing more than trollish in their attempt to paint Campbell as solely as a negative with no redeeming qualities and changing your arguments just to get a rise out of folks.

Think what you will, you seem to want to disect my every position and shoot holes in them one by one.

I think even the most naive of football followers understand the impact of turnovers. I have been critical of Gibbs when warranted as well as JC when warranted. I have also given plenty of praise when warranted. I have been consistant all along the way. Sorry you find that "trollish" and I find such a view insulting.

[IrepDC]

When are people going to get over JC's mistakes this year??? I wonder if these people are still getting on Portis, and Moss, and Cooley, and Springs, and Gibbs, because all of them have made just as many game costly mistakes as Campbell. We all still believe Portis is a solid RB and Springs is a solid CB, so why am I supposed to believe Campbell is a bumb? In football EVERYONE makes mistakes, ESPECIALLY young QB's. I have been very critical of Campbell's ability to finish games thus far but some of you are taking it a little too far.

Campbell >>> Collins

[bobzmuda]

Think what you will, you seem to want to disect my every position and shoot holes in them one by one.

I think even the most naive of football followers understand the impact of turnovers.

Right. But you place greater emphasis on turnovers by the QB rather than turnovers by the RB, when, even the most naive of football followers know that all turnovers, regardless of by whom, are a very bad thing. If you are so incensed by total turnovers this year you should be just as adamant about starting another RB, as Portis has been very poor overall this year with fumbling.

All this ignores the most obvious point that if turnovers are such anathema to you, a consistent position would be for you to be more concerned with calling for Portis to be seated, than praising Todd Collins, since Portis is still in a position to hurt the team with his turnovers. But instead, you seem to be dogpiling on the QB that is out of the game whose turnovers can no longer hurt the team. I realize you're excited with Todd Collins and what his heady play and so am I. But I recognize his limitations, and his fortunate bounces so far (the near pick-6 against the Giants for example). That is not to take anything away his great game againt the Bears, and his few effective throws against the Giants, but your posts seem mean-spirited in nature, and actually more inciteful than insightful.

There is a way to make your point without resorting to the kind of posting that you have seems to intentionally inflame many of the members here.

[ttr77]

.

Campbell >>> Collins

Personally I don't care who is a better QB. But since everyone seems to be blaming the rest of the team and the coaches for the failures under JC, then apparently TC is able to bring out the best in those around him - right now.

For this reason, perhaps he should be starting until JC figures out how to do so.

[skinfan2k]

Personally I don't care who is a better QB. But since everyone seems to be blaming the rest of the team and the coaches for the failures under JC, then apparently TC is able to bring out the best in those around him - right now.

For this reason, perhaps he should be starting until JC figures out how to do so.

they beat the bears who lost 2 games in which they got 4 turnovers each. They stopped our running game and Minnys

[goldenster95]

Does the author of the above thread have a clue of what QB play is? Does the author of above thread even watching the games? It is odd that he is so blindly loyal to JC that he is not witnessing what has happened on the field this season. Sure we've had our setbacks and struggles, but countless times his hero JC has been in a position to make a big play at an important point of the game, yet he has been unable to do so. Examples everywhere. Yet still the author of the above is ready to excuse him for any turnover and missed opportunity.

The guy reminds of the guy who will argue for hours upon hours why something that walks like a duck, swim likes a duck and quacks like a duck is really not a duck but a beautiful swan. :laugh:

The author of the above babbles on how anyone who has doubts about JC must be wearing the dunce cap.

As for me, I'm merely celebrating no costly interceptions out of our QB for the past 2 weeks and 2 straight wins, something the author above seems to take real issue with. Go figure. This really is comical.

Yeah, I do watch the games, do you? And if you do, you hardly understand football.

As for your duck example, it's more like you look at something that quacks like a duck, walks like a duck, and call it a dog. Apart from the horrendous mischaractezation you attribute to the webbed footed animal you think walks on four feet, you do this when everyone else around you calls it a duck, and then express astoundment when they all concude it's a duck.

Jeez, skippy, that tell you anything?

Like I said, try citing to me anyone respectable that agrees with you. Also like I said, when people like Peter King say things like Campbell is rounding into one of the top 10 to 12 QBs in the league, that kind of seals the deal.

[skinfan2k]

Like I said, try citing to me anyone respectable that agrees with you. Also like I said, when people like Peter King say things like Campbell is rounding into one of the top 10 to 12 QBs in the league, that kind of seals the deal.

When guys like King, Parcells and Tom Jackson who hate the skins, reveal their opinions and like JC what can i say

[goldenster95]

Right. But you place greater emphasis on turnovers by the QB rather than turnovers by the RB, when, even the most naive of football followers know that all turnovers, regardless of by whom, are a very bad thing. If you are so incensed by total turnovers this year you should be just as adamant about starting another RB, as Portis has been very poor overall this year with fumbling.

All this ignores the most obvious point that if turnovers are such anathema to you, a consistent position would be for you to be more concerned with calling for Portis to be seated, than praising Todd Collins, since Portis is still in a position to hurt the team with his turnovers. But instead, you seem to be dogpiling on the QB that is out of the game whose turnovers can no longer hurt the team. I realize you're excited with Todd Collins and what his heady play and so am I. But I recognize his limitations, and his fortunate bounces so far (the near pick-6 against the Giants for example). That is not to take anything away his great game againt the Bears, and his few effective throws against the Giants, but your posts seem mean-spirited in nature, and actually more inciteful than insightful.

There is a way to make your point without resorting to the kind of posting that you have seems to intentionally inflame many of the members here.

Did he really draw a distinction between RB turnovers and QB turnovers? WOW!

Hey, about Earnest Byner coughing the ball up in that playoff game against Denver? I'm sure that would be "less" costly than if the QB then (who I believe was Bernie Kosar) threw a pick.

Incredible.

[Bigmuss1]

Why is there all of these arguments on the board??? TC is doing exactly what he is paid to do.....Be a quality backup and win some games!!

What does this have to do with JC...He is hurt, we go to our reliable back up and win..You guys are all turning into Iggle fans with all of this qb controversy...Feeley plays well once and call for Mcnabbs head...

We are not like that here, we understand that a back up comes in and done his job, once our Starter is healthy he is back. Period end of story@!!!!

[ttr77]

Why is there all of these arguments on the board??? TC is doing exactly what he is paid to do.....Be a quality backup and win some games!!

What does this have to do with JC...He is hurt, we go to our reliable back up and win..You guys are all turning into Iggle fans with all of this qb controversy...Feeley plays well once and call for Mcnabbs head...

We are not like that here, we understand that a back up comes in and done his job, once our Starter is healthy he is back. Period end of story@!!!!

Hey now, there is no more popular man in DC than the #2 QB for the Redskins. This goes back to the early 70s.

[kingfish50]

Collins manages the game a lot better than JC but that's what you expect from a 10 year veteran and turnovers are part of maturing into a veteran QB.

JC will be back as our starter next season and hopefully he'll cut down on the stupid turnovers/mistakes. He's got a rifle of an arm, he just needs to work on his accuracy.

Our future is with JC,so enjoy the Collins bandwagon while you can because no matter what, it will be short lived.

[skinfan2k]

Ivan Carter who covered KC when collins was there that Collins is the man for a 3-4 game stretch way back in august and it will likely be true. But he is not a real solution for a entire season

[ttr77]

Our future is with JC,so enjoy the Collins bandwagon while you can because no matter what, it will be short lived.

I think most people agree that JC is the future.

Just how bright that future will be is what is in question.

[kingfish50]

I think most people agree that JC is the future.

Just how bright that future will be is what is in question.

I hear ya! I'm hoping for the best from him next year. Right now, he reminds me to much of McNabb. He looks great through out the game until crunch time, when every thing's on the line and he throws the dumbest pass/passes for interceptions.

I can remember Terry Bradshaw being booed at Pittsburgh in his first year of play and look what he ended up accomplishing? I hope we can all look back one day and say the same thing about JC's accomplishments.

[dexter's manley]

Look, Campbell played nicely in brief spurts this season, but his horrible decisions and passes at the end of games were the main reasons behind our 4 game losing streak that nearly dashed our playoff hopes. He has shown capability to be an NFL QB, but hasn't demonstrated that he is a top tier starter - and certainly hasn't proven himself to be a franchise QB in the making.

Collins is demonstrating that all it takes to adequately run this offense is a decent, smart quarterback. No one thinks TC is a world beater or that he should be the long term answer for us (given his age, he can't be). But the team's success since he took over should make all of us question whether Campbell is the right person here. I hope, at the very least, the coaching staff brings in some young competition for him, because from what we saw this season, there's no reason to just hand Campbell the keys to the team. He hasn't earned that.

[taylorcoreskin]

After watching Minnesota last night, I came to a single yet undeniable conclusion:

Tarvaris Jackson plays JUST like Jason Campbell. Both are awful and need replacement as well.

Meaning, defenses try to play them the same way. Stack the box, stop the run, force the quarterback to beat you. When we've had JC in the game and defenses have played us this way, we've won 7 games out of 19 games, or 37%. It seems as if teams have been playing Collins this way as well, but he's won 2 out 2, about to make it 4 out 4.

I said that Campbell going down against Chicago was a blessing the moment it happened. Beating a 9-5 team covincingly without Jason holding us back reinforces my assertion. If we can now beat an 8-6 team wihout Campbell, making it two wins in a row against winning teams, you will all know that our record could have been a lot better without Jason costing us games. We could have competed for the division without Jason Campbell's horrible turnovers and awful yardage per pass play.

Imagine if we go 4-0 with Collins but still miss the playoffs because Campbell got us into too big a hole for Collins to dig us out of.

Again, J. Campbell = Tarvaris Jackson.

[voicekiller]

Chalk up another Todd Collins is better than Campbell thread. Nevermind his 32% completion percentage.

All these TC bandwagon threads are just sad...I wonder how many will cry when Jason is the starting QB next season