SearchHorizon Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 I would agree with the title of this thread. But make no mistake, there's no QB controversy. JC is the QB#1 of this team. BUT, until Collins loses he needs to be under center. JC needs to get 100% healthy because it's his athleticism that makes up for his inexperience. A gimpy JC or a healthy TC: I take the healthy one. Last night the lack of turnovers was HUGE for us. Especially in those conditions. I have little doubt that JC will be the QB of the future for Washington Redskins, but if we go deep into the playoffs this year, TC will be #1 next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan4ever Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 JC will be put on IR soon. It would be stupid to risk his carrer when TC is playing well right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 JC will be put on IR soon. It would be stupid to risk his carrer when TC is playing well right now. Yahoo reports thath he's looking at returning for the Dallas game: http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7201/news Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Yahoo reports thath he's looking at returning for the Dallas game:http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/players/7201/news If the Skins win next week, they'd be crazy to pull Collins for a non-100% healthy QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanSinceSonnyJ Posted December 17, 2007 Author Share Posted December 17, 2007 Like I said, Campbell has a turnover problem. Not sure I denied that.Campbell almost has equal stats... in one season... than Collins has in a career. Collins has started 18 games... In his career. 13 years. He's averaging 1.4 touchdowns... PER SEASON. In his one starting season with the Bills (14 games, 13 starts) these were his stats: 215/391 55% 2367 yards 6.1 yards per completion 12 TD 13 INT 39 sacks 69.5 rating 10 fumbles (He was throwing to Andre Reed, Eric Moulds, and Quinn Early) Campbell for this year: 250/417 60% 2700 yards 6.5 per completion 12 TD 11 INT 21 sacks 77.6 rating 13 fumbles EVERY stat, besides TDs (tied) and fumbles is in Campbell's favor. Collins is clearly better than Campbell, though Nevermind the fact that Campbell has a much better arm than Todd. Collins benefits from knowing Al Saunders offense. And I'm glad we have him. He's NOT better than Campbell. 2-0 with Collins - 0 interceptions, 0 fumbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanSinceSonnyJ Posted December 17, 2007 Author Share Posted December 17, 2007 The Turtle is DEFINITELY better than Campbell, as of now.I like Campbell, and I think he will be the future of Washington Redskins. But for Tood to play in that wind, and throwing as well as he did shows superb composure and understanding of defenses that JC has yet to show. Todd well timed run plays as well -- Campbell would not have been able to sell those run plays. To have time in the pocket, the QB has to know when the defense has a good chance of getting penetration into the pocket (by reading the defense). Last week and this week, Collins again demonstrated he knew WHEN to take his time. It is not coincidence that his line SEEMS to be performing better than when JC is there. JC is would have thrown 3 picks. Exactly. Well stated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzmuda Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 2-0 with Collins - 0 interceptions, 0 fumbles. Looking just at the interceptions stat doesn't tell the whole story. Just because the Giants dropped a couple of easy picks last night doesn't mean you should credit Todd Collins with making smart decisions and good throws. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StillUnknown Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Looking just at the interceptions stat doesn't tell the whole story. Just because the Giants dropped a couple of easy picks last night doesn't mean you should credit Todd Collins with making smart decisions and good throws. exactly, he threw a ball that would've been six the other way if the giants players holds on to the ball when it hit him directly in the chest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SearchHorizon Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 exactly, he threw a ball that would've been six the other way if the giants players holds on to the ball when it hit him directly in the chest. But of course, if it wasn't so damn windy, the ball would have been there. The logic works "both" ways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 2-0 with Collins - 0 interceptions, 1 fumble, 1 fumble lost. Fixed that for you. You obviously don't watch the games. He fumbled against the bears and it was recovered by the Bears. Your just being silly now.:doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#98QBKiller Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Fixed that for you. You obviously don't watch the games. He fumbled against the bears and it was recovered by the Bears. Your just being silly now.:doh: He's basically just being a troll at this point, the best thing we can do is just ignore him and all of the dumb comments about Campbell/Collins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 He's basically just being a troll at this point, the best thing we can do is just ignore him and all of the dumb comments about Campbell/Collins. I know I know. Its so hard you know. These are the types of threads that I get suspended over on here. I wanna throw my computer out my window sometimes. :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redsknz4life Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 So did those INTs in TB lose the game for us or did the Moss/Portis fumbles? We wouldn't have been back in that game without Campbell and you want to blame him for losing that game.What about the Dallas game? Did his INT lose the game or did those 4 huge TD passes to Owens lose the game? We wouldn't even have been in that game without him either. Collins would not have kept us in either of those games to begin with. Face it, your buddy Todd is a career backup and Jason will start as soon as he's healthy if we're still in the race. Last night's game ball goes to Portis, Betts and the defense, they won that game. Thanks.... People don't realize that if we are down by double digit....you can't expect TC to bring us back. JC will get us back in the game with a chance to win! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redsknz4life Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 I dont think Todd id better than JC, its just amazing when you dont turn the ball over...good things happen. That's a good post....but the running game was very efficient and the O-line also did a heck of a job blocking! It seems as if JC has to run for his life when he's under center....lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzmuda Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 But of course, if it wasn't so damn windy, the ball would have been there. The logic works "both" ways. That's ridiculous. The ball actually hit the Giants' player in the hands. That indicates that the pass was very poorly thrown or the decision was terrible. You're talking about some hypothetical situation where the conditions could have been different and possibly affected the throw (maybe) or the decision (very doubtful). Give credit where it's due, but not where it isn't. Collins played well enough to win by hitting a few big throws and being fortunate his mistakes didn't make it to the stat sheet. I like Todd and think he can win for us, but I want to see how he plays in Minnesota before I reach any kind of conclusion on him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
morpheusmeyers Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Instead of debating who is the better quarterback and tossing out arbitrary stats like yards, completion %, etc. to state a case, the real debate should be which QB is better suited to win games for us now. Despite his age, weak arm, and lack of mobility, TC gives this team a better chance to win games NOW. Sure, Campbell has a bright future. He has a strong arm and scrambling ability. He's shown some playmaking ability this year, and he will no doubt be our quarterback for years to come. But his turnovers have cost us wins this season. As other posters have stated we're not good enough of a team to be able to consistently turn the ball over and win games. Upside. Campbell > Collins Physical tools. Campbell > Collins Ability to win now. Collins > Campbell Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mania Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Brunell didnt turn the ball over a lot.I cant wait to have JC back there. The nice thing about Todd is that no one has any video tape on him. The limit of scouting on him would be something like this: Viking Coordinator - So lets see what he does 99% of the time. Viking Head of Scouting -- Well he uses a Staples brand clipboard. He likes to take notes in BLUE INK. I love it. what a team win. proud to be a redskins fan today. Lets not forget that 99% of the time he is smelling something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SearchHorizon Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 That's ridiculous. The ball actually hit the Giants' player in the hands. That indicates that the pass was very poorly thrown or the decision was terrible. You're talking about some hypothetical situation where the conditions could have been different and possibly affected the throw (maybe) or the decision (very doubtful). You are the one putting up a hypothetical "we are lucky Giants didn't catch those." I can play that game as just you can. "Giants were lucky that the ball got there because of the wind." Give credit where it's due, but not where it isn't. Collins played well enough to win by hitting a few big throws and being fortunate his mistakes didn't make it to the stat sheet. B.S. To think that those throws would have been easy picks is incorrect. In timing offenses, it is important that balls are precisely thrown -- the fact that wind interfered with trajectory of passes is not indicative of TC's ability to read defenses; I have no idea how you can blame TC for that. Secondly, QBs take chancess when they throw in windy conditions, because they know balls are not stable under windy conditions and are more difficutl to intercept. In windy conditions, balls move in weird ways -- If you have played baseball, you'd understand what knuckleball does. When wind is 25-30 mph, the spin the qb's put on the passes doesn't help that much. I like Todd and think he can win for us, but I want to see how he plays in Minnesota before I reach any kind of conclusion on him. You can tell far more about a person's ability when that person is facing adversity. Todd completing those crucial passes in that windy Giants game is a FAR better indicator of his QB ability than what he will show in Minny, in a nice protected dome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 TC pulled out a win under very very difficult conditions. I swear this is ridiculous. CP, the O-Line, the Defense, and Suisham pulled the win out. EDIT*- And now you edit out that part. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I swear some people on here. Sometimes I don't think its even worth being a member. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RedskinInExile Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 JC will be put on IR soon. It would be stupid to risk his carrer when TC is playing well right now. What game were you all watching? Collins was underthrowing recievers like crazy out there. Even the short passes were off the mark. Also, did you guys notice that he NEVER checked down? He was locked onto one receiver from the time the ball was snapped til he threw it-- regardless of whether the WR was open at the time. You can't blame that one on the wind, and it's frightening to see a veteran like him make such mistakes. We can't count on the Vike's DBs to be as forgiving as the Giants'. I'll give you this though; if Collins picks it up the next two games and we make the playoffs, it would be awfully hard to bench him in favor of Campbell. Not that I don't have faith in Campbell, but, as the Huard/Green thing in KC taught us last year, you dance with the one that brung ya. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SearchHorizon Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 I swear this is ridiculous. CP, the O-Line, the Defense, and Suisham pulled the win out. The fact that the rest of the team played well doesn't take anything away from TC. Also, you must understand, good QBs make others look better. TC knew how to read defenses, so he knew when to hold the ball for longer and when he had to get rid of it fast. In doing that, he made his O-Line look good. He made CP look good, because he stuck with run plays at the right time and executed his run palys beautifully. Just go back and see how TC sold that draw play to Betts for the first touchdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCitySkins Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 I'm just curious why other team members who fumble get a free pass. All I ever see are threads about Jason's fumbles. Moss and Portis both lost fumbles in the first Giants game. Betts lost a fumble in the first Eagles game. Portis lost 2 and Moss lost 1 in the Tampa game yet someone posted yesterday that the Tampa loss was on Jason. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chow184 Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 Great win last night! While the weather certainly effected the passing game, wasn't it refreshing to have QB play that did not involve the untimely interception? We've endured much to much of that this season under the "forever green" Jason Campbell. While Collins is not a strong arm guy, he looks composed in the pocket and is making good decisions. Next up, the Vikes and then the Cowboys. It's going to take a monumental effort to win out, but I'm liking our chances much better under Collins. yeah and the giants dropped 2 sure interceptions that him them in the chest and got their hands on many other passes. matter of fact one of santanas passes went right through the hands of a giants player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SearchHorizon Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 EDIT*- And now you edit out that part. :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I swear some people on here. Sometimes I don't think its even worth being a member. I edited my post before I looked at your post. I always edit my post for accuracy. I stand by what I said. See my reply to your post, above Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CRobi21 Posted December 17, 2007 Share Posted December 17, 2007 I edited my post before I looked at your post. I always edit my post for accuracy.I stand by what I said. See my reply to your post, above Its not even worth it anymore. I quit. Im gonna go see whats going on with the Clinton vs. Ladell threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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