skinsince72 Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 No.If Collins does exceptional next week, good for him! I hope he does well. If he doesn't, he doesn't. He's our backup quarterback. Most if not all of us should be cheering for him regardless of how we feel about him being a starter on this team. He's a Redskin. Anyone that accepts that "agreement" is a whack fan. No need to get all philosophical. My post was in jest. It was aimed at the 2 extreme opinions so prevalent on ES. We now have JC homers pointing out all the mistakes TC made.(stairing down receivers and throwing in good coverage). It seems a large portion of the fanbase will complain no matter who does well. If we had lost last night, the threads would have been much more brutal. I never meant for people to actually agree to my suggestion. Only wanted to point out that negative threads about players come and go depending on if we win or loss. Too many keystrokes over nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GamaGoliath Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Is there some sort of ES record for the most repetative topic? :sucks: It's funny how some of you so called football fans watch games as if they take place in a vacuum. If you don't think that the play of the o-line has anything to do with the play of Campbell, then you pretty much have no credibility. It's also funny how some of you like to look at Collins like he's the answer to our QB problem. Never mind this guy has had like a decade of experience in this system. Of course he's going to know it better than Campbell. Some of the simple things I've seen here makes me want to leave this site. I used to think that the Skins had some of the more knowledgable fans in the league....After some of the nonsense that I've seen here, we can't make that claim... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SearchHorizon Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Only wanted to point out that negative threads about players come and go depending on if we win or loss. Too many keystrokes over nothing. You realize, by that rationale, posting in ES is complete waste of time, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzmuda Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 So long as he keeps winning and not turning the ball over, keep him as the starter. JC has gotten plenty of reps this season and should now be shelved until next season. Collins, to date, shows much better judgment than JC. Again, we are not a good enough team to overcome 2 turnovers a game by our starting QB. Our losses this season prove just that. Take away JC's turnovers we may very well be 9-5 versus 7-7. Your comment about Sonny is just plain stupid. Not sure what point you're trying to make there other than to prove there. Once Collins or JG actually get into the HOF, I'll be happy to even bother responding. :laugh: By your same logic I assume you're also in favor of starting Betts over Portis since Portis is tied for 3rd among RBs for fumbles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck812 Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Sadly, JC does not discriminate between games when he turns the ball over. He's turned the ball over during games the running game has been working and in games it has not been working. Well he did turn it over once when CP rushed for 100 yards or more but he also had 4 TD passes I think. The last several games he played in our running game was nonexistent. Regardless of whos played QB though we have won when we threw less than 30 times and lossed when we threw it more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyndorf25 Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 No.If Collins does exceptional next week, good for him! I hope he does well. If he doesn't, he doesn't. He's our backup quarterback. Most if not all of us should be cheering for him regardless of how we feel about him being a starter on this team. He's a Redskin. Anyone that accepts that "agreement" is a whack fan. :applause: Well said, brother. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyndorf25 Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Bottom line is it appears that some around here are Jason Campbell fans first, Redskin fans second. Wins don't seem to matter so long as their hero is out on the field throwing for around 300 yds, along with a couple of interceptions and fumbles that cost us the game. I agree that if TC is the hot hand and the team is winning behind his play then ride him out. However them moment this BACKUP falters, JC deserves his job back due to the fact that he is the QB better suited to lead this team into the future. All any fan should want right now are WINS...regardless of how they come about. The argument arises when the question becomes "how doe we best position the Redskins to get wins?" Some think JC's youth, physical ability, and strong arm are what is best for the team...others think TC's experience, leadership qualities and veteran savvy are what matters most right now. Personally, I would side with JC IF HE WERE HEALTHY. I would ride TC until he make a couple of mistakes then I would bring out the hook. IMO, JC gives this team the best chance to win while operating the offense overall--I think that is why he was the opening-day starter. He can streatch the field, escape the rush and keep plays alive in a way that no other QB on this roster can. Unfortunately, he can also make a bad throw or decision to throw but those are learning experiences that JC must go through and given time will be able to make those plays that wind up winning ball games more often than not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanSinceSonnyJ Posted December 18, 2007 Author Share Posted December 18, 2007 By your same logic I assume you're also in favor of starting Betts over Portis since Portis is tied for 3rd among RBs for fumbles. Yet another dumb analogy. You JC fans are relentless in defending your hero. :laugh: Portis has earned his keep through tough running. Besides comparing turnovers of a RB versus a QB is comparing apples and organges. It is indisputable that JC's turnovers have cost us dearly this season. You JC lovers blame his play on everything but JC himself. So long as Collins does not turn the ball over, keep him in there and let JC ride the pine. We need wins, not endless excuses on why JC can't seem to get it done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goldenster95 Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 I don't know if it's been said, but Collins threw a couple of passes right to Giants' players last night. If the G-men hadn't had one of the worst performances in recent NFL history in terms of dropped passes (on both sides of the ball), the Collins Bandwagon would be singing a different tune today. Exactly. This guy's a moron. Or maybe it should be this gal, who's probably Mrs. Collins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SKINS FAN #56 Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Chalk up another Todd Collins is better than Campbell thread. Nevermind his 32% completion percentage. Wow, give him some props atleast. I don't think Campbell would've done any better as a young QB in that weather. Even though Collins didn't put up too many numbers, he didn't do anything that hurt the team either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanSinceSonnyJ Posted December 18, 2007 Author Share Posted December 18, 2007 I agree that if TC is the hot hand and the team is winning behind his play then ride him out. However them moment this BACKUP falters, JC deserves his job back due to the fact that he is the QB better suited to lead this team into the future. All any fan should want right now are WINS...regardless of how they come about. The argument arises when the question becomes "how doe we best position the Redskins to get wins?" Some think JC's youth, physical ability, and strong arm are what is best for the team...others think TC's experience, leadership qualities and veteran savvy are what matters most right now. Personally, I would side with JC IF HE WERE HEALTHY. I would ride TC until he make a couple of mistakes then I would bring out the hook. IMO, JC gives this team the best chance to win while operating the offense overall--I think that is why he was the opening-day starter. He can streatch the field, escape the rush and keep plays alive in a way that no other QB on this roster can. Unfortunately, he can also make a bad throw or decision to throw but those are learning experiences that JC must go through and given time will be able to make those plays that wind up winning ball games more often than not. Sound logic. The part of your above thread which I have underlined is what many of us our concerned about. JC has shown no improvement in the turnover department, despite all the time he has been given to date. He best fix this issue quick. To date JC looks to be playing at a level just above Tavaris Jackson - great raw talent, mixed with a tendency to make poor decisions on a regular basis. It doesn't matter that he throws for 300 yds if he just turns the ball over at critical junctures of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wyndorf25 Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Sound logic. The part of your above thread which I have underlined is what many of us our concerned about. JC has shown no improvement in the turnover department, despite all the time he has been given to date. He best fix this issue quick. To date JC looks to be playing at a level just above Tavaris Jackson - great raw talent, mixed with a tendency to make poor decisions on a regular basis. It doesn't matter that he throws for 300 yds if he just turns the ball over at critical junctures of the game. Fair enough. But the only way to find out if JC can eliminate those mistakes is trial by fire. He cant truly learn to eliminate a bad discision while sitting on the bench not making the desicion. Im not ready to give up on this young man. Hes just too gifted and I think this team needs to have the faith to weather his learning curve in order to reap the benefits that will come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanSinceSonnyJ Posted December 18, 2007 Author Share Posted December 18, 2007 Is there some sort of ES record for the most repetative topic? :sucks: It's funny how some of you so called football fans watch games as if they take place in a vacuum. If you don't think that the play of the o-line has anything to do with the play of Campbell, then you pretty much have no credibility. It's also funny how some of you like to look at Collins like he's the answer to our QB problem. Never mind this guy has had like a decade of experience in this system. Of course he's going to know it better than Campbell.Some of the simple things I've seen here makes me want to leave this site. I used to think that the Skins had some of the more knowledgable fans in the league....After some of the nonsense that I've seen here, we can't make that claim... Yet another fan making excuses for JC. Unbelievable how any criticism of JC is met with mean spiritied attacks and endless excuses by his loyal faithful who obviously believe starting their guy is more important than winning games. For the record, I've been a fan for over 40 years now, longer than you've been amongst us. Campbell is a great raw talent who has not demonstrated that he can play on a consistant level when it comes to making bad decsions and turning the ball over. Blame the OL, blame the coaches, blame the fans - but gosh forbid some of you actually lay the blame on Campbell. If he's sacked he needs to learn to hold on to the ball. He needs to read the field quicker. He needs to develope a quicker release. Can he be great? Sure, but he better start making noticable strides quickly by ceasing the turnovers. Even Gibbs is not going to give this guy endless years to cure his turnover woes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 For the record, I've been a fan for over 40 years now, longer than you've been amongst us. Campbell is a great raw talent who has not demonstrated that he can play on a consistant level when it comes to making bad decsions and turning the ball over. Blame the OL, blame the coaches, blame the fans - but gosh forbid some of you actually lay the blame on Campbell. If he's sacked he needs to learn to hold on to the ball. He needs to read the field quicker. He needs to develope a quicker release. Can he be great? Sure, but he better start making noticable strides quickly by ceasing the turnovers. Even Gibbs is not going to give this guy endless years to cure his turnover woes. Pulling out the fan card that i have been watching more than you. Who the **** cares dawg? Campbell gave away game but he made some spectular plays throughout the season. He made tremendous progress this year. last year thrown to the wolves on a team that had no playoff aspiriations and playing for nothing was really hard. He wasn't the sole reason for the 5-7 start. I love how we all blame him for the dallas and tampa games. If it weren't for him, we dont be in the position to win both those games. Gibbs has made plenty of mistakes this year. Record # of losses after halftime lead.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanSinceSonnyJ Posted December 18, 2007 Author Share Posted December 18, 2007 Fair enough. But the only way to find out if JC can eliminate those mistakes is trial by fire. He cant truly learn to eliminate a bad discision while sitting on the bench not making the desicion. Im not ready to give up on this young man. Hes just too gifted and I think this team needs to have the faith to weather his learning curve in order to reap the benefits that will come. I agree to a degree. So long as Collins is successful, he should start as if we actually make it to the playoffs it will be a result of how he plays. If he gets us into the playoffs, he should also start in the playoffs. As for next season, I have no problem with JC being the starter, but I don't believe Gibbs or whoever the coach is will be so patient with him as they have this season. In Gibbs' system, a QB does not have to play sensational, he just needs to manage the game well and not turn the ball over. JC has struggled in this department, while TC has not thus far. Again, we are not so great of a team that we can overcome turnovers. Sadly, JC has proven this to be the case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanSinceSonnyJ Posted December 18, 2007 Author Share Posted December 18, 2007 Pulling out the fan card that i have been watching more than you. Who the **** cares dawg?Campbell gave away game but he made some spectular plays throughout the season. He made tremendous progress this year. last year thrown to the wolves on a team that had no playoff aspiriations and playing for nothing was really hard. He wasn't the sole reason for the 5-7 start. I love how we all blame him for the dallas and tampa games. If it weren't for him, we dont be in the position to win both those games. Gibbs has made plenty of mistakes this year. Record # of losses after halftime lead.. Excuse me guy? I was merely responding to some guy questioning my "fanhood". :laugh: You Campbell lovers are sure touchy. Sheesh. Lighten up ace. Oh, and yes JC's two costly interceptions against the Bucs cost as that game and yes his costly interception against Dallas cost as that one as well. He drives the ball all the way down into the red zone in these games only to make bonehead interceptions. Sorry he gets no pass for just keeping us in the game, he had a chance to win them for us and couldn't deliver, just as it has been all season long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyber Pimp Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Excuse me guy? I was merely responding to some guy questioning my "fanhood". :laugh: You Campbell lovers are sure touchy. Sheesh. Lighten up ace. Oh, and yes JC's two costly interceptions against the Bucs cost as that game and yes his costly interception against Dallas cost as that one as well. He drives the ball all the way down into the red zone in these games only to make bonehead interceptions. Sorry he gets no pass for just keeping us in the game, he had a chance to win them for us and couldn't deliver, just as it has been all season long. Its nice to see someone that feels the same as I do. These JC lovers blame any and everybody for his mediocore play. They need to face reality and realize that he's not that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FanSinceSonnyJ Posted December 18, 2007 Author Share Posted December 18, 2007 Its nice to see someone that feels the same as I do. These JC lovers blame any and everybody for his mediocore play. They need to face reality and realize that he's not that good. Unbelievable, is it not? These so-called fans are more interested in their hero taking the field, then the are in winning ball games. Why? You tell me... He may end up being great, but wishing and hoping has gotten it done thus far and just may never will. Some folks just can't stomach the cold, hard facts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzmuda Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 To date JC looks to be playing at a level just above Tavaris Jackson - great raw talent, mixed with a tendency to make poor decisions on a regular basis. It doesn't matter that he throws for 300 yds if he just turns the ball over at critical junctures of the game. Wow. You must either think really highly of TJax or really poorly of Campbell. Jackson is in way over his head. His only good games have come when his team has had the lead because of that dominant running game and the other teams have sold out against the run leaving wide open passing lanes. I will say that if you say JC and TJax are playing at roughly equivalent levels, you either haven't watched enough JC, haven't watched enough TJax, haven't watched enough of both, or are advancing some agenda, as that statement is bordering on hyperbole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobzmuda Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Again, we are not so great of a team that we can overcome turnovers. Portis is 3rd among RBs for fumbles. So, again, are you advocating benching Portis? In favor of Betts or Cartwright perhaps? If you are consistent in your approach, you will say "Yes, bench Portis, his turnovers can't be overcome." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDawg Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Unbelievable, is it not? These so-called fans are more interested in their hero taking the field, then the are in winning ball games. Why? You tell me...He may end up being great, but wishing and hoping has gotten it done thus far and just may never will. Some folks just can't stomach the cold, hard facts. What facts? The ones you're cherry picking? You're killing me. Oh, and who says it's just Campbell lovers saying anything here? Maybe it's just people who think Campbell is a better quarterback than Collins... It couldn't be that Todd actually HAS had better protection, could it? Of course not. That would prevent you from cherry picking stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyber Pimp Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Unbelievable, is it not? These so-called fans are more interested in their hero taking the field, then the are in winning ball games. Why? You tell me...He may end up being great, but wishing and hoping has gotten it done thus far and just may never will. Some folks just can't stomach the cold, hard facts. Its all about popularity with them. I want the best man for the job on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RocketCitySkins Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 Excuse me guy? I was merely responding to some guy questioning my "fanhood". :laugh: You Campbell lovers are sure touchy. Sheesh. Lighten up ace. Oh, and yes JC's two costly interceptions against the Bucs cost as that game and yes his costly interception against Dallas cost as that one as well. He drives the ball all the way down into the red zone in these games only to make bonehead interceptions. Sorry he gets no pass for just keeping us in the game, he had a chance to win them for us and couldn't deliver, just as it has been all season long. Campbell's supporters are only touchy to the point that we don't want him saddled with all the blame. Yes, he has make mistakes. But in the Dallas game the defense gave up 4 long touchdowns to the same receiver, 28 points. And in the Tampa Bay game Portis fumbled twice and Moss fumbled once. 7 of Tampa Bay's points came after the Moss fumble and 6 points, two field goals came after the Portis fumbles. But to some people their mistakes and bad play had nothing to do with us losing those games. The outcome of a football game is not determined by only the final drive. The way some people want to blame only Jason, just make me :tantrum::cuss: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
G1 Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 There's no controversy here. Campbell is the starter as soon as he's fully fit. Collins has done a sterling job these last two games and Campbell can learn a lot from him as he clearly need to address the turnover issues he has but, he's still relatively young. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ttr77 Posted December 18, 2007 Share Posted December 18, 2007 man i wish some of you guys were the coach of the colts during mannings first years. you would have benched him and then maybe the redskins would have picked him up as a free agent. If Campbell had a rookie season like Manning, where everyone in the entire football world knew he would be a superstar, I'd be a true believer. Rookie records * Most passes attempted in a season: 575 * Most passes completed in a season: 326 * Most yards gained in a season: 3,739 * Most Touchdown Passes in a season: 26 * Most Consecutive games with a Touchdown: 13 Campbell was not even close. So, as of now, I am not a true believer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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