Refreshing not to have QB turnovers!

[ttr77]

If it weren't for him, we dont be in the position to win both those games. Gibbs has made plenty of mistakes this year. Record # of losses after halftime lead..

So...you are giving Campbell credit for keeping the team in a position to win games, but blaming Gibbs for losing them after halftime? That doesn't make much sense.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

Campbell's supporters are only touchy to the point that we don't want him saddled with all the blame. Yes, he has make mistakes. But in the Dallas game the defense gave up 4 long touchdowns to the same receiver, 28 points. And in the Tampa Bay game Portis fumbled twice and Moss fumbled once. 7 of Tampa Bay's points came after the Moss fumble and 6 points, two field goals came after the Portis fumbles. But to some people their mistakes and bad play had nothing to do with us losing those games. The outcome of a football game is not determined by only the final drive. The way some people want to blame only Jason, just make me :tantrum::cuss:

These thoughts coming from a guy who posts a highlight clip of Landry drawing a 15 yd unsportsmanlike conduct penalty to keep the Giants in the game.

Absolutely absurd that anyone would give JC a pass for throwing 2 interceptions to the Bucs late in the game when we were in position to win the game. Absolutely absurd that anyone would give JC a free pass for throwing the late 4th qtr interception against the Cowboys when we are in position to win.

Comparing fumbles of a RB versus bonehead decision interceptions fo a QB is like comparing apples and organges. Heck JC has yet to prove he can hold onto the ball when sacked.

Look, I hope the best for the guy as he has great raw talent. But unlike you JC lovers, I'm done giving him a free pass week end and week out. At this juncture, the best thing that could have happened to us is for Collins to come off the bench and put up a couple of W's. Somehow, I can not visulize JC winning the Bears game or the Giants game. One or two turnovers out of him would have killed us.

The way some of you folks excuse JC's mediocre play, just makes me want to puke.

[skinfan2k]

So...you are giving Campbell credit for keeping the team in a position to win games, but blaming Gibbs for losing them after halftime? That doesn't make much sense.

sorry gibbs has lost the most leads in the past 4 years regardless who is qb? I forget that Brunell went thru a 2-6 spell like Campbell but he didn't get blamed.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

So...you are giving Campbell credit for keeping the team in a position to win games, but blaming Gibbs for losing them after halftime? That doesn't make much sense.

:laugh: Great point. These guys will blame any and all, except for the JC himself. Unbelievable, but funny in a sad way.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

sorry gibbs has lost the most leads in the past 4 years regardless who is qb? I forget that Brunell went thru a 2-6 spell like Campbell but he didn't get blamed.

So it's all Gibbs' fault now. :laugh:

Brunell certainly did get blamed and booed loudly. Where the heck were you? As a matter of fact, Brunell was benched for poor play. Shouldn't the same standard hold true for your hero JC?

Truly amazing. You guys would be okay with a 2-14 record so long as JC was the starter. Sad.

[skinfan2k]

No wonder why this organization is a joke for the past 15 yrs. No Qb development what so ever. Trent Green, Rich Gannon, pat Ramsey

[SonnyJ]

Oh and please explain to me what's the difference between "Way too long, and too long".

I think I explained it in my post - he holds it a beat or two longer than he should. That's the best I can explain it. And I'm not saying he does it on every play, but often enough for it to be a problem. It's the difference between a positive play and a negative play. QBs who get the ball out on time don't encounter these issues. Nor do they get injured. You think it's just blind fortune that Manning and Brady never get injuries? It's not random - they get the ball out of their hands before the rush gets to them, thus largely avoiding the types of hits that dislocated Campbell's kneecap. If Campbell gets rid of that ball earlier, the injury doesn't happen. Sometimes the best play is just throwing the ball away and going to the next play.

It's not nit-picking. It's a fundamental necessity for superior QB play. The QB has to strike when the window is open - often that means throwing it before it is actually open. The QB has to anticipate it happening. Campbell does not do that on a consistent basis. Thus, he is inconsistent - he'll look great for a stretch and then elicit groans. It's part of the process. I'm hopeful that he develops this skill fully, because he has a lot of promise.

[skinfan2k]

So it's all Gibbs' fault now. :laugh:

Brunell certainly did get blamed and booed loudly. Where the heck were you? As a matter of fact, Brunell was benched for poor play. Shouldn't the same standard hold true for your hero JC?

Different between vt and youngster. Brunell benched last year not the year before. It was the defense and the running game that took us to the playoof like this year if we do

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

Wow. You must either think really highly of TJax or really poorly of Campbell. Jackson is in way over his head. His only good games have come when his team has had the lead because of that dominant running game and the other teams have sold out against the run leaving wide open passing lanes.

I will say that if you say JC and TJax are playing at roughly equivalent levels, you either haven't watched enough JC, haven't watched enough TJax, haven't watched enough of both, or are advancing some agenda, as that statement is bordering on hyperbole.

Actually, TJax led the Vikes from a 13-6 half time deficit just last night. He's shown flashes, just like JC and he's shown a tendency to turn the ball over, just like JC. TJax is more mobile than JC. Thus, overall JC is slightly better at this juncture.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

I think I explained it in my post - he holds it a beat or two longer than he should. That's the best I can explain it. And I'm not saying he does it on every play, but often enough for it to be a problem. It's the difference between a positive play and a negative play. QBs who get the ball out on time don't encounter these issues. Nor do they get injured. You think it's just blind fortune that Manning and Brady never get injuries? It's not random - they get the ball out of their hands before the rush gets to them, thus largely avoiding the types of hits that dislocated Campbell's kneecap. If Campbell gets rid of that ball earlier, the injury doesn't happen. Sometimes the best play is just throwing the ball away and going to the next play.

It's not nit-picking. It's a fundamental necessity for superior QB play. The QB has to strike when the window is open - often that means throwing it before it is actually open. The QB has to anticipate it happening. Campbell does not do that on a consistent basis. Thus, he is inconsistent - he'll look great for a stretch and then elicit groans. It's part of the process. I'm hopeful that he develops this skill fully, because he has a lot of promise.

Exactly. Great explanation.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

Different between vt and youngster. Brunell benched last year not the year before. It was the defense and the running game that took us to the playoof like this year if we do

Now your backpedaling and splitting hairs. :laugh:

Whatever guy. Brunell was benched for mediocre play. Thus far JC has not been, but a compelling case could have been made to do so. Admittably it would be tough to do seeing that so much was invested into the guy. But unless he starts improving in noticeable strides, my guess is a change will be made. When and if JC actually starts contributing in making plays at crunch time and not turning the ball over regularly...with the end result being wins, I will become his biggest fan. Until then, disussions regarding his value to date will remain valid.

[RocketCitySkins]

I only put the Landry hit as my sig because someone asked for it and the board wouldn't show the link. Too much bandwidth I guess. Oh, well.

I think you're missing my point. I didn't say that Jason didn't contribute to those losses. But this isn't tennis we're playing here. Every football player will tell you that you win as a team effort and you lose as a team effort.

These thoughts coming from a guy who posts a highlight clip of Landry drawing a 15 yd unsportsmanlike conduct penalty to keep the Giants in the game.

Absolutely absurd that anyone would give JC a pass for throwing 2 interceptions to the Bucs late in the game when we were in position to win the game. Absolutely absurd that anyone would give JC a free pass for throwing the late 4th qtr interception against the Cowboys when we are in position to win.

Comparing fumbles of a RB versus bonehead decision interceptions fo a QB is like comparing apples and organges. Heck JC has yet to prove he can hold onto the ball when sacked.

Look, I hope the best for the guy as he has great raw talent. But unlike you JC lovers, I'm done giving him a free pass week end and week out. At this juncture, the best thing that could have happened to us is for Collins to come off the bench and put up a couple of W's. Somehow, I can not visulize JC winning the Bears game or the Giants game. One or two turnovers out of him would have killed us.

The way some of you folks excuse JC's mediocre play, just makes me want to puke.

[bobzmuda]

So it's all Gibbs' fault now. :laugh:

You seem to think so.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4347136&postcount=6

I agree. We're playing the 2nd half of games "not to lose" versus playing to win. 2 running plays up the gut for 3 yards, and an incomplete 3rd and long pass. Too predictable. Our run blocking has to improve big time if we want to grind it out in on the ground.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4347152&postcount=8

If the team is getting complacent in the 2nd half, that is also a coaching issue. You'll find no bigger Gibbs fan than myself, but we have definite issues...still...on the offensive side of the boy. It's long overdue to get this offense to start producing if we want any shot of actually getting to the playoffs.

http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4348241&postcount=20

Study all the film you want guy, the fact remains our O is not getting it done. It goes deeper than just clamoring that the players aren't getting it done. No doubt there are too many mistakes and much of the blame can go to the players. However, ultimately the coach is responsible for how well the team is prepared each week.

Our offense has been inept since 2005. We are predictable and go ultra conservative anytime we have a lead and then hang on while our opponents claw themselves back into the game.

My point is it is time to take the gloves off and play to win as opposed to playing not to lose.

[skinfan2k]

Now your backpedaling and splitting hairs. :laugh:

Whatever guy. Brunell was benched for mediocre play. Thus far JC has not been, but a compelling case could have been made to do so. Admittably it would be tough to do seeing that so much was invested into the guy. But unless he starts improving in noticeable strides, my guess is a change will be made. When and if JC actually starts contributing in making plays at crunch time and not turning the ball over regularly...with the end result being wins, I will become his biggest fan. Until then, disussions regarding his value to date will remain valid.

Wrong. The protection schemes were changed and the philosophy. Alexander and Yoder much more involved the past 2 weeks. No Pucillo. We ran playaction out of obvious run formations. It helps to have sellers too back from injury. You weren't complaining last year when he only had 1 fumble thru 7 games and only 6INts

[SonnyJ]

Campbell's mechanics are A LOT better than Jackson's. I hadn't seen Jackson until last night, but his mechanics are sorely lacking. I'm not saying Campbell's are Brady-esque, but they are light years better than Jackson's.

Mechanics aren't the end-all and be-all (as Favre and Romo sits to pee would attest to), but you have to get them somewhat right. On some of his throws last night, Jackson's feet were brutally out of synch. The type of stuff that you would cringe at watching a 10-year-old throw.

Campbell is considerably ahead of Jackson in his development. Jackson still looks like somewhat of a project - he's got talent and a strong arm, but lacks any sort of polish. If I were a Vikings fan, he would scare the bejeebers out of me if the team needed him to win a game. Luckily, they can rely on other facets while he develops and gains experience.

[skinfan2k]

I love it when people change their stance from thread to thread

[bobzmuda]

Nevermind. I misread.

[ttr77]

No wonder why this organization is a joke for the past 15 yrs. No Qb development what so ever. Trent Green, Rich Gannon, pat Ramsey

This organization is a joke because they keep losing, yet the only plan they seem to have to improve is to outspend everyone else. And all the fans predict a string of Super Bowl victories starting the following season and blast anyone in the media that dares to state differently.

QB development is nice, on a young, up-and-coming team with no better options. But when your backup comes in with a better understanding of the offense and starts to win, you ride that train until it is derailed.

Perhaps it is just too much to admit...that the Career Backup is having more success than the Golden Child.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

I only put the Landry hit as my sig because someone asked for it and the board wouldn't show the link. Too much bandwidth I guess. Oh, well.

I think you're missing my point. I didn't say that Jason didn't contribute to those losses. But this isn't tennis we're playing here. Every football player will tell you that you win as a team effort and you lose as a team effort.

Having actually played the game, I fully understand football is a team sport. What is your point? It does not matter that JC helped get us into position of winning against the Bucs and Cowboys, he's paid millions to do just that. It does matter that he blew it both times and has blown these opportunities all year long whether it be a 3rd down pass needed, a go ahead TD pass, etc. Sure it's not all on him, but he certainly has earned having much of the blame laid at his feet. His turnovers have killed us down the stretch. You can't turn the ball over regularly and be successful. Period.

BTW, Landry made a helluva play on that clip you have, too bad he blew it with his taunting antics.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

This organization is a joke because they keep losing, yet the only plan they seem to have to improve is to outspend everyone else. And all the fans predict a string of Super Bowl victories starting the following season and blast anyone in the media that dares to state differently.

QB development is nice, on a young, up-and-coming team with no better options. But when your backup comes in with a better understanding of the offense and starts to win, you ride that train until it is derailed.

Perhaps it is just too much to admit...that the Career Backup is having more success than the Golden Child.

Outstand sentiments. My thoughts exactly.

[skinfan2k]

T

QB development is nice, on a young, up-and-coming team with no better options. But when your backup comes in with a better understanding of the offense and starts to win, you ride that train until it is derailed.

Perhaps it is just too much to admit...that the Career Backup is having more success than the Golden Child.

Oh right 2-0 against da bears and the giants. It was all CP, defense and the special teams pinning the giants back repeatedly.

QB solves everything. QB hides alot of your problems

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

You must be a big fan of Jake Plummer and Eli Manning. Both generally had dug their teams into early leads only to "rally" their teams from behind (even though it was mostly of their own doing).

Yet another stupid, baseless attack by a JC lover. Grasping at straws to discredit anything negative said about their hero. :laugh:

Get back to us when you can actually see the forest through all those trees.

[FanSinceSonnyJ]

Oh right 2-0 against da bears and the giants. It was all CP, defense and the special teams pinning the giants back repeatedly.

QB solves everything. QB hides alot of your problems

Well, seeing that you guys gush and go out of your way to give JC credit for any win and none of the blame for any loss, it would seem as you have a double standard.

Not surprising.

[bobzmuda]

I love it when people change their stance from thread to thread

Apparently he's ignoring his own inconsistencies, which is a shame. I'd like to hear him attempt to reconcile them like his "RB TURNOVERS ARE NOT AS BAD AS QB TURNOVERS" argument he advocated earlier in the thread.

[ttr77]

Oh right 2-0 against da bears and the giants. It was all CP, defense and the special teams pinning the giants back repeatedly.

QB solves everything. QB hides alot of your problems

Oh yeah, I forgot...CP, the defense, the special teams, the coaches playcalling, the offensive line's blocking, and the WR dropping passes were all part of some vast conspiracy designed to keep JC down. Now, they have the true QB they want in there so they will start doing their jobs.

Well, if every single player and coach hates JC this much that they don't want to perform their jobs for him, then perhaps we are better off with Collins. At least they play for him.