Larry Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Along with it, a world currency would be within the chip You mean, my driver's license will print money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I'll ask you the same question: Name a legitimate reason why the government is mandating identification that can be read remotely. Me, I can only think of one: So that a citizen's ID can be read without the citizen's knowledge or consent. Do we actually know that the plan is to have long range RFID?When I hear RFID, I don't really think of a homing device... I think of the SmartTrip card I use to ride the Metro, which only works at a distance of about a half-inch. To be detectable at a longer distance, the RFID tag would need to carry its own power source and be at least the size of an EZ-Pass like they have for the Dulles Toll Road ... not really something passport-sized. What are we really talking about when we say RFID? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Williams Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 You mean, my driver's license will print money? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I'll ask you the same question: Name a legitimate reason why the government is mandating identification that can be read remotely. Me, I can only think of one: So that a citizen's ID can be read without the citizen's knowledge or consent. What does "read remotely" mean to you? It means a magnetic card (like my ID for my building) that you can put up against an electronic scanner (like the scanner in my building), so that the card can be read. This is as opposed to a card that you "swipe" through the middle of the reader, like a credit card. They are two ways of accomplishing the same limited task, and neither of them is particularly sinister. The former is more efficient. "According to the filing, the passport needs to be within inches of the reader in order to work." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Williams Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 What are we really talking about when we say RFID? IBM's PATENT http://www.spychips.com/documents/ATT00075.pdf ^^^^ Read all about it <---keep in mind, they are doing it for the "retail" aspect Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I'll ask you the same question: Name a legitimate reason why the government is mandating identification that can be read remotely. Me, I can only think of one: So that a citizen's ID can be read without the citizen's knowledge or consent. Larry, In response to such concerns, the DHS changed their position to request barcode machine readable, not remote or RFID. But this only happened nine months ago, so I understand if the conspiracy theorists haven't updated their websites yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Read all about it <---keep in mind, they are doing it for the "retail" aspect[/size][/color] I understand what the technology is. I have a Metro SmartTrip card in my wallet right now that I have used innumerable times. I also have slightly less advanced RF technology in the key fobs I use to get into my condo building and to get into my building at work where if I come in after hours and put it up to the reader, my face will pop up on a computer screen ... At my last building, I had a card I would use to get in and out of the parking garage that wouldn't let me allow two cars in at once - a very simple RFID application. I guess I'm not sure what "remotely" means in terms of passport RFID's. Were they proposing a few inches or a few feet or a few yards? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Predicto Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I guess I'm not sure what "remotely" means in terms of passport RFID's. Were they proposing a few inches or a few feet or a few yards? Inches, accorting to the WP article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I guess I'm not sure what "remotely" means in terms of passport RFID's. Were they proposing a few inches or a few feet or a few yards? The intent of technology was for it to be a readable from a few inches, but privacy advocates (including the ACLU) raised the issues of people being 'surveyed' without their consent. And in response the DHS are requesting use of 2D Barcode spec known as PDF417. This is already used in 45+ states on ID documentation. So the great worldwide government plot to monitor citizens without their consent has apparently been defeated by those pesky interferin' kids at the ACLU. Or maybe there wasn't an evil government plot to begin with? Sorry KB. Another of your delusions is busted. :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Williams Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Larry,In response to such concerns, the DHS changed their position to request barcode machine readable, not remote or RFID. But this only happened nine months ago, so I understand if the conspiracy theorists haven't updated their websites yet. You can read about that here: http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/privacy/privacy_advcom_rpt_rfid_draft.pdf Read the disclaimer at the bottom though.....:laugh: "This report has not been considered or approved by the Full Data Privacy and Integrity Advisory Committee and has not yet been provided to the Secretary or the Chief Privacy Officer of the Department of Homeland Security as a formal recommendation." Keep in mind, this is what Corcaigh wants us to think..... I'll believe that this is their full intentions when I see it......this is just a ploy to get our guard down.......and Corcaigh fell for it..... looks like those DHS people haven't submitted their recommendations and updated their website yet :laugh: Another bogus link by everyone's favorite poster Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Do we actually know that the plan is to have long range RFID?When I hear RFID, I don't really think of a homing device... I think of the SmartTrip card I use to ride the Metro, which only works at a distance of about a half-inch. To be detectable at a longer distance, the RFID tag would need to carry its own power source and be at least the size of an EZ-Pass like they have for the Dulles Toll Road ... not really something passport-sized. What are we really talking about when we say RFID? And bluetooth doesn't need security, because it only works within a few feet. Unless someone has some super high tech spy gear. Like a Pringle's can. Then it can be read from over a block away. Do you really want to assume that something that works today won't be vastly improved, 10 years from now? And I'll still point out: If it can only be read from a quarter of an inch away, then why mandate it? The smart chips you see on credit cards have the same capabilities, and are just as secure, and don't need wireless communications to work. They are read by contact. So why mandate wireless? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I'm talking about your claim that my driver's license will contain world currency. You know, the sentence I quoted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Williams Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Do you really want to assume that something that works today won't be vastly improved, 10 years from now? The longest I know of ( regarding RFID is 500 meters ) I know this is a bit short of their satellite goal however in a decade, who knows Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 You can read about that here:http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/privacy/privacy_advcom_rpt_rfid_draft.pdf Read the disclaimer at the bottom though.....:laugh: Keep in mind, this is what Corcaigh wants us to think..... The url you provided is to a general draft doc about use of RFID technologies, not REAL ID. It is not related to the current position on REAL ID. Seriously KB, you are wasting everyone's time here. Actual useful information is at: http://www.dhs.gov/xlibrary/assets/nprm_realid.pdf and http://www.dhs.gov/xprevprot/laws/gc_1172767635686.shtm I met with Darrell Williams to talk about the status of their latest backtrack on requirements only a couple of weeks ago. He would be very surprised to hear your accusation that I'm his stooge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Williams Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 I'm talking about your claim that my driver's license will contain world currency. You know, the sentence I quoted. oh no, I was referring to when it becomes an "in hand " thing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 So why mandate wireless? They are not. Does that help? :doh::laugh: 2D barcode is what they are requesting, and even taht is subject to states playing along. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 oh no, I was referring to when it becomes an "in hand " thing So, you mean my hand will contain currency? (I like this plan more, now.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Williams Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 His last post Dude?....I think we are talking about 2 different things? :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: I'm talking about tracking people with the rfid chip in their hand.....you seem to be posting about the REAL ID act still I don't think ANYONE will be tracked off the privative technology inside the national id card. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec138 Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 The longest I know of ( regarding RFID is 500 meters ) I know this is a bit short of their satellite goal however in a decade, who knows Satellite goal? Please explain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Williams Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Satellite goal? Please explain. Quite simply, if the best technology we have currently is a 500 meter range max. So if the technology had a longer range the govt could use cell phone towers and satellites to track the movement of citizens with the RFID chip in their hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DjTj Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 And bluetooth doesn't need security, because it only works within a few feet. Unless someone has some super high tech spy gear. Like a Pringle's can. Then it can be read from over a block away. Bluetooth is powered, and the definition of "works" is a little more restrictive because the device needs a constant connection rather than a one-time read.Do you really want to assume that something that works today won't be vastly improved, 10 years from now? And I'll still point out: If it can only be read from a quarter of an inch away, then why mandate it? The smart chips you see on credit cards have the same capabilities, and are just as secure, and don't need wireless communications to work. They are read by contact. So why mandate wireless? A lot of credit cards are going to RFID:http://corporate.visa.com/md/fs/consumer/contactless.jsp?topic=tech IMO, I think wireless is a huge leap in convenience ... the smart cards where you need a point of contact are only marginally better than magnetic stripes. The government certainly could have mandated smart chips or bar codes instead (which seems to be what they're doing), but they just need to mandate one consistent system for passports. RFID was the most advanced technology, but they can certainly go cheaper if that's what they want to do. I guess my real point is about the technology itself ... as long as all you're carrying around is an antenna, RFID will never have a range further than a foot or so You only need to start worrying if batteries start to get really small and we can all carry around powered antennas. Then, like bluetooth devices, you'll be detectable from a block away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Dude?....I think we are talking about 2 different things? I'm talking about tracking people with the rfid chip in their hand.....you seem to be posting about the REAL ID act still I don't think ANYONE will be tracked off the privative technology inside the national id card. You were the one who used the phrase "RFID/global ID card system". http://www.extremeskins.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4573318&postcount=26 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corcaigh Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Quite simply, if the best technology we have currently is a 500 meter range max. Are you suggesting active RFID chips would be implanted, along with a power supply? Or are you claiming passive RFID tags have a range of 500m? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spec138 Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Quite simply, if the best technology we have currently is a 500 meter range max. So if the technology had a longer range the govt could use cell phone towers and satellites to track the movement of citizens with the RFID chip in their hands. Oic. Well the technology will have to jump leaps and bounds, as GPS satellites orbit around 20,000,000 meters above the surface off earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coach Williams Posted December 10, 2007 Share Posted December 10, 2007 Oic. Well the technology will have to jump leaps and bounds, as GPS satellites orbit around 20,000,000 meters above the surface off earth. With 1 bizillion cell phone towers helping it isn't necessary to shoot IMO more than 1 mile tops..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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