This is Why I Can't "Let Go" of Joe Gibbs...I Just Can't

[kleese]

First.....recognizing that he can no longer coach is not "turning your back on him."

When your 80 year old grandfater tries to drive a car, and you and your parents think better of it and take away the keys....you aren't "turning your back on your grandfather." Instead, you are protecting him.

If you love Joe Gibbs....you want him to go now. Before he does anymore harm to his prior reputation.

Do you really want to see another double timeout called? How about another season of our 2 minute offense? Is that really what you want?

Of course it isn't. And neither does anybody else.

At what point do you cut the man love.....and see reality? 1 more season? 5 more seasons? Should we extend his contract, so he can tell our players "we aren't good enough to blow anyone out."

Do you really want that crap from your head coach?

I give him one more year-- not based on Gibbs I, but based on this year and based on the fact that all we talked about before Gibbs arrived, we "seeing something through" for once.

Gibbs signed a 5 year deal. This is year 4. We've had one true "rebuilding" year (2004), one terrific year (2005), one truly lousy year (2006) and now 2007.

And I have a hard time defining 2007 at this point. First of all, 1/4 of the season still needs to be played. Secondly, the injuries and now tragedy we suffered this year go a bit beyond "normal" NFL standards for which all teams should be prepared.

I just want to see it through-- for Joe Gibbs, I am willing to do that.

[spagolli94]

Joe doesn't throw interceptions in the final minutes in the red zone. Joe doesn't fumble the ball a bazillion times in the first half. Joe didn't break Sean Taylor's knee, letting TO run wild in the secondary. Without injuries and the stupid mistakes made by the PLAYERS, our record could be very different this season.

[kleese]

Do you honestly think these next 4 games will be a drastic change from his sizeable body of Gibbs-II work?

No, but I also had tickets to the St. Louis game in 2005. I was within 10 seconds of selling those tickets and not going on my trip because I had 100% given up on the season. I went, we won and then won the next 4.

I see no evidence that we can do that again this year, but I'm willing to give them a shot.

[Neophyte]

Do you honestly think these next 4 games will be a drastic change from his sizeable body of Gibbs-II work?

Actually, I think the last 4 games have been a change from the rest of Gibbs-II. We are literally 4 bad plays, 2 on offense and 2 on defense, from having won the last 4 games.

[JWB]

Joe doesn't throw interceptions in the final minutes in the red zone. Joe doesn't fumble the ball a bazillion times in the first half. Joe didn't break Sean Taylor's knee, letting TO run wild in the secondary. Without injuries and the stupid mistakes made by the PLAYERS, our record could be very different this season.

Unfortunately, I agree. Either the receivers drop the 3rd down pass, the running backs or JC fumbles the ball or JC misses the open receivers. Against Buffalo, Moss and Cooley had their defenders beat on consecutive plays in the 4th quarter only to have JC throw the ball away (please tell me he was throwing the ball away). Even though I do not believe in the type of game plan Joe is using this time around, the team is in every game. Unfortunately, we are coming out on the wrong end of the score. I don't see this ending any differently as long as Joe is in charge. I also don't see Snyder ending Joe's contract prematurely. So we really have no choice but to be on the ship. After going to Sunday's game, there are 90,000 plus on the ship now!

[CGSKINS]

I will always love Joe Gibbs, but I want him to go now, mostly because I don't want to see his stellar record tarnished any longer. The sooner he goes the faster we can get back to remembering and honoring the real Joe Gibbs, not the old and senile Joe Gibbs.

Thats the same way I feel.

[McD5]

Joe doesn't throw interceptions in the final minutes in the red zone. Joe doesn't fumble the ball a bazillion times in the first half. Joe didn't break Sean Taylor's knee, letting TO run wild in the secondary. Without injuries and the stupid mistakes made by the PLAYERS, our record could be very different this season.

Joe apparently doesn't even read the nfl rulebook to learn the most basic of rules. Simple, football foundations.

Joe also apparently doesn't even consult with our head defensive coach prior to the game. Joe said he "had no idea" that we were going to start only ten men Sunday as a tribute to ST. He wanted to talk to Gregg after the game to find out "exactly what was going on."

Joe also hasn't learned the 2 minute offense.....and he doesn't know that teams punt, and not kickoff after safeties.

To the points you mentioned--Joe supposedly is the head coach of those players that are making mistakes. It is his job to coach them up, to make them accountable, and to INSPIRE them.

"We aren't good enough to blow anybody out," and calling a double timeout isn't exactly INSPIRATIONAL.

Enough is Enough already. Do you want a football coach or not?

[redskins0756]

Yeah you have false hope bud sorry.

Gibbs is done, I love the guy he is a class act and no one can take that away but he just doesn't have the swagger he used to have. The NFL has changed and the Joe Gibbs type coach is not in the NFL anymore. That is run the ball 40 times a game and let your D stop them while playing conservative. You really have to go almost 60-40 pass in the NFL nowadays because the LB's and S's are so fast that the speed the possess to get on the ball is completely different than that of 20 years ago. Guys like Roy Williams or Sean Taylor were unheard of. A hybrid LB/S was not really used back then as it is now.

In addition QB's HAVE to be mobile. Kerry Collins will never last in the league again because he has absolutely no mobility. I'm not saying Michael Vick speed and run for a 60 yard TD, but I'm saying having quick feet where you can avoid a defender and move out of the pocket throwing on the run. The NFL is not a 5 step drop and throw it league anymore. Players are faster, defenses are more complicated, so this forces the QB to make quicker decisions and create more plays.

My point is that Gibbs clearly has not grasped the speed of today's game and certainly is not the same coach he was, mostly due to age and being away from the game so long. I think we need to follow suit with other teams and hire a canidate that is relatively young (but not Lane Kiffin young) and very smart. IE Jason Garrett would be an excellent choice. Ron Rivera certainly isn't a bad choice either.

But the bottom line is the Redskins are rebuilding and we need to change the identity of this team. And trust me Moss and Portis are NOT in that identity. Neither is Daniels, Griffin, or anyof the other injury prone aging players.

[bobzmuda]

No, but I also had tickets to the St. Louis game in 2005. I was within 10 seconds of selling those tickets and not going on my trip because I had 100% given up on the season. I went, we won and then won the next 4.

I see no evidence that we can do that again this year, but I'm willing to give them a shot.

Obviously, most of us are going to wait out these 4 games.

And Snyder's not going to fire him, much less in mid-season with games left to play.

But the clock is nearing midnight.

[kleigh629]

This team needs new, young, invigorating blood on the sidelines.

We've had new blood on the sidelines for several years after Gibbs retired and before he returned. That so-called new blood did no better than Gibbs has done since his return.

The problem is not always the coaching, a lot of it lies with the players themselves. Even Gibbs can only unite a team into a team so much. If there is no unity on the team, they aren't going to win, it's that simple.

Let's face it, this is a different NFL than when Gibbs coached before. It's every man for himself, who can get the biggest contract deals, the most money, etc. There is NO loyalty in this NFL anymore. No one gives a D* about the game, it's all about #1. Free agency, all these absurd rules the NFL keeps adding year after year, players change teams like most people change their socks! This is pathetic football at it's best, if it weren't for the Redskins and Gibbs, I would have quit watching long ago.

I'm not necessarily saying Gibbs needs to retire, these guys need to get their heads out of their *****e$ and start playing the game like they are paid to play it.

As much as I hate Dallas, I have to give them credit, they work as a team very well, as does New England (another hated team for me). Probably one of the reasons they have the best records in the NFL. Take lessons folks. Gibbs is only part of the team, everyone else needs to take their share of the blame, too.

[hail2skins]

Kleese, after the Tampa game, sitting at 5-6, I was thinking that if Gibbs could somehow go 4-1 in the last 5 games, I'd be willing to give him a fifth year unconditionally. If not, I thought that either Gibbs should either a) step down after the season or publicly admit that he needed more time to accomplish what he needed and sign a 1-2 year extension, if only for symbolic purposes. I thought the debate would be largely swept under the rug due to the Taylor tragedy. However, Joe's colossal blunder at the end of the game on Sunday really brought it back into focus.

Do you still think Joe should be given his 5th year unconditionally, and if so, why? Legacy preservation is not a good answer.

[planter]

Basically agree.

The %$#@!& health situation has REALLY sucked.......

Now the Skins need to fill a major hole in the Defense.

This is not Joe's fault.

Jason is still a rookie.

At LEAST one more year.

[worstSeat]

Joe Gibbs is an outstanding human being with a great heart.

You might be able to cut that a little shorter. I was starting to get suspicious just how good a guy he was, then came the double time outs at the end of the game. Seriously, what kind of sportsmanship was that?

Then this from the Washingtonian -- from 1987. http://www.washingtonian.com/articles/people/5845.html -- at the bottom

August 1987

His playing career over, Theismann talked about his first date with TV star Cathy Lee Crosby, his fractious relationship with coach Joe Gibbs, and the injury that ended his career.

“When I asked Joe Gibbs later why he never came by [the hospital after the broken leg], he said he had been busy that week getting ready for the next game.

“I said, ‘Okay, but what about the night it happened.’

“He said, ‘I was tired.’ Yeah. Right. I was a little tired myself that night.

“ ‘You could have stopped by sometime,’ I said. ‘You talk about how much I meant to this football team and you give me all your bull**** about caring about people, but when it comes down to brass tacks, you don’t even stop by.’

Joe said, ‘I’m really sorry. . . .’

Yeah. There's a stand up guy.

[Skins81a]

The thread starter makes no sense and has no logic. I loved Riggo and Monk, like I am sure you do....do you want them back also even though they couldnt perform. Do you people want to win. Gibbs has been horrible since his return, stop giving him a pass. Now all together Thursday, "Joe must go....Joe must go"

[kleese]

Do you still think Joe should be given his 5th year unconditionally, and if so, why? Legacy preservation is not a good answer.

Perhaps if we absolutely crumble over these next 4 games and show ZERO ability to bounce back, then I will jump on board with the "no 5th year crowd." I won't say unconditionally.

But if we show a little life, then I will lean towards wanting him back.

Why?

1. I like the moves he's made as a psuedo-GM. A few I wish we could have back, but overall, I've like his drafts and his FA signings. We've also really improved in the area of finding talent "off the street."

2. Team has character, plays hard, and always seems motivated. In that regard, I still think Joe has leadership skills.

3. Gameplans are pretty solid. We rarely seem surprised or caught off guard. X's and O's wise I don't really have a problem.

The biggest weakness for Joe right now, and it is a GIANT weakness is his in-game decision-making. It's just simply awful, and it is contributing to losses-- no doubt.

I believe that it is possible he can still correct that weakness.

Furthermore, given the injuries and losing Sean, I just wouldn't feel comfortable letting him go out on this note. Yes, based on who he is and what he means to the Redskins, I'd give him that 5th year.

[redskins55]

I believe in Joe.. Redskins fans want a championship club instantly, but they dont realize it just doesn't happen like that in the NFL. Gibbs has built the Redskins into a contender. Considering our first year starter at QB, and ALL the inuries and tragedies this year, its still alot better than the direction we were heading before he came back. There was a reason he signed a 5 year contract, and when he came back I knew it would take about that length of time to make us a regular contender. We had no patience with Turner as he was fired when we still were in playoff contention, No patience when Marty went 8-8 his first season, and now no patience even when Gibbs took us to the playoffs in 05'.

[skinfan31]

The thread starter makes no sense and has no logic. I loved Riggo and Monk, like I am sure you do....do you want them back also even though they couldnt perform. Do you people want to win. Gibbs has been horrible since his return, stop giving him a pass. Now all together Thursday, "Joe must go....Joe must go"

kidding or not. he deserves more respect than that. I agree he has to go. but he shouldn't be treated like that.

[AllenBroadway]

We were very close to being 10-1 this year. If not for a lot of mistakes, not all of which can be blamed on Gibbs than we would be. So he must be doing some things right. He asked for 5 years. People on here were calling for his damn head after 2.5 years.

He deserves more respect than that. Let him finish out his contract and then we talk about replacing him if we need to.

This season is not over. We can still make the playoffs and if this season has showed us anything it is that we can hang with any team in the NFC.

Sometimes I wonder about our so called fans. We are still in a playoff hunt and all people want to talk about is firing our Hall of Fame coach and how this season is over.

We are just a few team adjustments away from being 10-1. Dont forget that.

Lets see what happens next year. I think Gibbs has us headed in the right direction. We are not there yet, but we are very close.

Starting all over again next year is a guaranteed way to suck. No thanks. I say give Gibbs at least one more year.

[Skins81a]

I believe in Joe.. Redskins fans want a championship club instantly, but they dont realize it just doesn't happen like that in the NFL. Gibbs has built the Redskins into a contender. Considering our first year starter at QB, and ALL the inuries and tragedies this year, its still alot better than the direction we were heading before he came back. There was a reason he signed a 5 year contract, and when he came back I knew it would take about that length of time to make us a regular contender. We had no patience with Turner as he was fired when we still were in playoff contention, No patience when Marty went 8-8 his first season, and now no patience even when Gibbs took us to the playoffs in 05'.

Instantly....please. Norv had 7 years, Gibbs has had 4 years. Both times we are no where near contender status. Really what are you talking about? You have a point on Marty.

[McD5]

We were very close to being 10-1 this year.

:laugh: :doh:

[Skins81a]

kidding or not. he deserves more respect than that. I agree he has to go. but he shouldn't be treated like that.

First the respect he has been shown is the fact that fans didnt give up on him after last year and the hanging on to Mark B deal as long as he did. I want him gone, I want to win, I want him to hear it so he leaves after this year! If he comes back it is a selfish move that doesnt have anything to do with the players or fans or Redskins but rather himself!

[thehogs]

When we brought Joe back I thought it was the wrong thing to do at the time. Not for anything against Joe but I felt the team was desperately trying to use memories of the good old days to spark a turn around when we should have been looking to the future on and off the field and taking some brave decisions. Nothing has made me change my mind on that.

Its not easy because of Joes history but no single person can be bigger than the 'Washington Redskins' organisation It can be damaging to the club and the decisions it has to make when that happens and I think its happening with Joe, sadly.

[skinfan31]

First the respect he has been shown is the fact that fans didnt give up on him after last year and the hanging on to Mark B deal as long as he did. I want him gone, I want to win, I want him to hear it so he leaves after this year! If he comes back it is a selfish move that doesnt have anything to do with the players or fans or Redskins but rather himself!

you just don't get it. go cheer for philly if you want to stoop to that level.

I gave up on him as a coach after the debacle last year. We had some momentum after making the 05 playoffs and that was quickly ruined in 06. But

I won't give up on him as a man. He is one of the classy guys you will ever see.

Again, he deserves better than that. You won't hear me joining in on your chant.

[JLU44]

Kleese, don't let emotion get in the way of reality. We all love Joe, but evertime I see a thread like this, it reminds me how some of us like to bury our heads in the sand. Joe Gibbs is an outstanding human being with a great heart. He is not, however, an effective football coach anymore. If that timeout fiasco on Sunday didn't prove it, I don't know what will.

He's way too conservative, and he doesn't show enough faith in his players. He coaches like he always expects the other shoe to drop, and consequently, it does. This team is STILL its own worst enemy, and that smacks of ineffective coaching.

So, I'd rather not go down with the ship. I'd rather see Gibbs win his final game, retire gracefully, and go off into the sunset. This team needs new, young, invigorating blood on the sidelines.

I'm one of those fans that believes In Joe Gibbs, but I have to say this......

You're making a damn good argument for letting him go!

The only problem I have, is that you need to state who you're replacing him with, and it better be somebody competent otherwise your argument will lose its credibility!

[hail2skins]

We are just a few team adjustments away from being 10-1. Dont forget that.

Lets see what happens next year. I think Gibbs has us headed in the right direction. We are not there yet, but we are very close.

Starting all over again next year is a guaranteed way to suck. No thanks. I say give Gibbs at least one more year.

But you can also say we could be 3-9 as well. While its true we played GB and Dallas tough, WE got taken to OT by bottom feeders Miami and NYJ. And don't even talk about what the Pats did to us.

The problem with the phrase "starting over again is a guaranteed way to suck.": we might have to do it at the end of '08 anyway. That's why Gibbs should either step aside now, or recommit to this club for a 1-2 year extension.