At what Point is the UN dead?

[@DCGoldPants]

I mean I understand when you have a loved on on Life Support....you don't want to pull the plug.

But this situation is just not one who's been easy to like the past few decades.

What will it take for the Nation's who are backing the U.S. to realize that the UN has become the grounds for dragging feet, empty threats and double talk?

[Kilmer17]

It is dead.

If we need an international forum, let's start from scratch and not let it be run by Africa/Middle East.

The UN is nothing but a US hating anti-semitic whorehouse. I say revoke their diplomatic status and send them all on the first plane to the Hague.

[@DCGoldPants]

I agree. I hate how just random countries end up as the chair of area's that they violate all the time.

[Sarge]

The UN will be dead in about two weeks, when the new moon starts and it is completely dark at night in Iraq

[Darth Tater]

What nationality is Blix?

The reason I'm asking is that if I was the guy selected to fill his role (and I'm a US citizen), if I came back with a report that basically called Bush and Powell liars, would I be a traitor?

So if Blix is a citizen of Belgium or Germany (or some country taking a similar position), if he told the truth, could they then say he was a traitor?

That's always been the problem with the UN premise anyway.

[Jagsbch]

The UN is dead to a country who refuses world consensus. So the UN doesn't agree with us so they are dead? If we don't like the law do we just take it into our own hands. Do we go and Kill OJ?

Personally I like the diversity of opinions the UN possess. You have to remember Iraq is a un issue, not a US issue. My daughter asked me last night what have Iraq done to us? I said Nothing. What could I say... So we are going in to attack Iraq, not as the UN, not as Nato but as one sovereign country attacking another with a bunch of rival gangs watching it's back... What Kind of crap is that. We can't take a UN resolution and use it as an advantage to attack I raq when the UN say's no.

We have to remember Iraq though a threat has done nothing to us to justify an attack.

It's not that Iraq has us paused as a world, from attacking Iraq in order to disarm it, it's the repercussions from this attack that has the world looking for other avenues of making progress with the dictator. Repercussions that it seems only the world and a few Americans can see as causing more damage than good especially when so little progress is being made with the inspections. But a little progress here and a little there Is a hell of a lot better than the destructive progress the direction our presidents diplomacy has taken us in regards to our relationship with North Korea, The Un, and Nato. He is on the verge of destroying over a half a centuries worth of diplomacy with Nato and the UN, and a decades worth with Korea regarding nuclear proliferation. All I ask is for some diplomacy and tact, Bush is flexing way too much. Flex is good but Bush, has in the last few months taken our popularity with the world, and virtually flushed it down the toilet with his flexing technique, and to that I say what the what the what.

[redman]

Blix is Swedish.

The U.N. is not dead or even dying because of the Iraqi crisis. However, the limitations in its role as an enforcer of international law and even of its own resolutions are being exposed for all to see. It can't even prevent itself from becoming the pawn to the interests and ulterior motives of the major countries on the Security Council.

The UN, even in light of the current Iraqi struggle, still serves as a capable humanitarian organization, and can be quite useful in nation-building. I'm less concerned with us acting unilaterally (which of course is not actually happening) in conquering Iraq than I am in holding and rebuilding Iraq. We need something that at least looks like an international body to rebuild that country the right way, and that's where the UN comes in.

[Tarhog]

Jag,

You are talking out of both sides of your mouth man. What got us involved in Iraq in the first place was their brutal unprovoked invasion of their neighbor. Guess what? We led a multinational force to save an Arab country. WE are not the problem. BUSH is not the problem. AMERICA is not the problem. I honestly don't have a problem with intelligent opposition to conflict. It should be used with reservation and only when its the best solution. You can argue that its not the best solution. But please stop with the moral equivalency, because thats what you and some others here are offering. Bush is not Hussein. The UN is not Congress (they don't get to determine US policy. Period).

As far as answering your daughter's question, how about 'This man has tortured and murdered his own people, tried to kill one of our President's, invaded his peaceful neighbor, and has lots of weapons he would love to use on Americans. And he's penpals with those wonderful people that killed 3,000 of our loved ones'.

The UN is a total crock and anyone who can't see that has a serious break with reality.

[redman]

Jags-

Did your daughter ask what the Taliban did to us? How about Hitler's Germany prior to 1942?

Also, did you daughter ask what we did to al Qaeda in response to 9/11?

These are horrendously simplistic analyses into problems, and intentionally so because they're aimed at getting to one and only one answer- that War in Iraq is wrong.

War is a horrible thing, but I'll be damned if I'm going to wait around in this brave new world for a tyrant to decide he has enough WMD stockpiles to strike us, or to have someone else strike us for him! As long as you have to fight, do it at the time of your choosing and do it in the place of your choosing. Don't let the other guy take the initiative.

[fansince62]

Jag.....just out of curiousity...that nuclear plant the Israeli's destroyed years ago in Iraq....why does a country sitting on a bounty of oil need a nuclear plant?

you don't know that they haven't done anything......

if P implies Q, not-Q does not imply not-P.........it's a tiresome point to make, but our friends in white seem to miss this point....

very blistering speech on C-SPAN thursday by Sen McCain drawing out the case against containment. he also noted some facts I hadn't known before about the french: they have sold nuclear plant materials in the past to Iraq, they signed huge oil for food agreements with the Iraqis in the last 10 years, they have violated several UN resolutions themselves irt Iraq....

my suggestion is that you teach your child logic first...then get on to the polemics

[Riggo-toni]

When was it ever alive? Seriously, other than when Daddy Bush used it to help him win a war vote in Congress, when has the UN's opinion ever meant squat beyond just intellectual debate. In the Korean War, maybe. Did it stop the USSR invasion of Afghanistan with its condemnation?

[Jagsbch]

I am not talking out of both sides of my mouth. Sadumb *** is not a terrorist. He is not a Muslim. He is an atheist for Christs sake.

P...Q... Please.

"The only thing we have to fear is fear itself" the saying could never be more true. This fear of Sadaumbass is more leathal to this nation, than Sadumbass.

Bush came in to my town yesterday, and said that the terrorist brought the war to us and we are taking it back to them.

And ya wonder why people are calling our good ole boy from Texas a racist... Sheesh! Who the hell are Them?

Sadumbass I repeat is not a terrorist, he might be an arab, he may have attacked a country to try and take it over, he might have broken UN resolutions but can we consider the dictator a terrorist? Lets get real here. All this paranoia being provoked by Bush over flexing Stinks to high heaven.

Red

He's had those stock pile's for how long now, BTW He's only used them when attacked, we gave them to him for goodness sake. We basically gave him permission to use them when we gave him the weapons in the first place.

Tarhog,

Any invasion is Brutal ask the Indians...

Now that I have your attention let's not call the kettle black. all this self righteous BS is for the birds. My neighbor is pissed at me and he has a gun that he would love to use on me. So I better kill him first? Do you all realize how stupid you sound...

We dropped the friggin Atomic BOMB on a bunch of civilians for goodness sake, who the hell are we to be all selfrighteous. Sorry I am not Buying the propaganda. I know to many vet's

Logic?

Answer the Questions

1. What Has Iraq done to US?

2. Is sadumbass a terrorist?

3. Is he even a Muslim for crying out loud?

Just because the guy's an arab it doesn't make him a terrorist.

He attacked a country he wanted to possess. Who hasn't, how the hell do you think we got where we are. At best the guy was looking up to us... he dresses in suits instead of the silly ***robes you see other Arabs leaders wear. We have a war on hunger, drug's, terrorism... Our conflict with Iraq is a far cry from a war on terrorism. You all are completely brainwashed if you believe otherwise wake up and smell the oil, I mean the coffee.:thumbsup:

Here is the terrorist sollution we need to stop spending billions destroying and use it to build. In afganistan we used them to help defeat the russians. We trained them supplied them and then when the war was over we hung them out to dry. Not that that justifies anything. But we need to get in there if we are going to spend this money to fight terrorism and use it to build and not destroy. We can go in there and make these bandits appear to be bandits right now they are robbin hoods to their people. then we can take the patriot missles out of our state capitol and soldiers out of our terminals. This is not a polliticle issue it is a himanitarian issue. resources are running dry all over the world and for them to see us living high on the hog and then going after other countries, presumably for oil makes us look like the Hated. Afgan attacked and we fought back the world is fine with that but this is getting to far out of hand. We took Koreas cry for help and slapped them in the face calling their primitive tactics a bribe. the capitol of Korea can't even afford to turn their lights on. They are desperate. The whole friggin world is deperate while we like a bunch of cowboys are out their shooting our guns oblivious to the real issues. Resources are running dry We need to make war for other nations dignity. They hate us because they lack it, more than anything else. These are desperate times, We don't need paranoia to blind us from the real issues.

Ya a few drinks sorry.

[Ignatius J.]

fansince,

as a mathemetician, I must disagree with you....

If P implies Q, then not-Q implies not P

I don't know what it has to do with your discussion, but the above is absolutley unrefutabely true.

-DB

[Craven Moorehead]

I'm pretty new, but I have a question.

Reading some of the responses, it seems like most of you who are in favor of action in Iraq believe that Saddam and Bin Laden are Allies.

Why do you believe that?

The taped message from Bin Laden was more of a plea for help or a Muslim rally cry. If there was already a connection, why would Bin Laden broadcast a message like this. I'm obviously not the only one that has picked up on this, Republican's have also noted it as well.

If you take away the link with Terrorism, you know from Saddam's past, it's extremely doubtful that he would launch a WMD attack on other countries, because he knows that it will be over for him at that point. Saddam seems like the kind of person to me that is content for the most part picking on his own people or those that are not a threat.

You have to admit, if he used WMD at all, he would have no chance of living.

[@DCGoldPants]

I don't know about Saddam and Bin Laden being directly connected. I think they share some goals and also have major differences.

However, when I say the UN is dead. I mean, we see countries ignore the mandates or whatever they pass that says "You have to disarm" or "You cannot treat your people like that". But we have to wait for another one of these to attack?

Ever see the movie PCU? Now is not the time to be walking on egg shells. Instead of saying that there is a lot of Anthrax that can't be accounted for in Iraq. How about we just ask the Iraqi representative to the UN "Hey, where is your boss' Anthrax? You have 24 hours to tell us and produce every gram."

late

[panel]

At what point was the UN NOT dead?

[Sarge]

JAgs,

What color is the sky in your world?

he might have broken UN resolutions but can we consider the dictator a terrorist?

Dictator = Terrorist. Terrorist = dictator when you act like saddam and run a country. And I think the people of Iraq would vote yes on this. If this country were facing attack, and the military moved equipment into your back yard, right next to your house to preserve it, knowing that the enemy is loathe to inflict civilian casualties, what would you call that? Think those folks are terrorised?

Bush came in to my town yesterday, and said that the terrorist brought the war to us and we are taking it back to them. And ya wonder why people are calling our good ole boy from Texas a racist... Sheesh! Who the hell are Them?

Sticks and stones from people who can't handle the course of action that needs to be taken. They have no logical response, so they call names. I wouldn't care if the raghead terrorist were Chinese, Japanese, Columbian or Martain, Bush is right, they brought it here, now it's time to reap what you sow.

Any invasion is Brutal ask the Indians...

Don't you mean ask the original indigineous Indians that were annilhilated by the indians that migrated from Asia. Suprised you used the word "Indians", not PC you know. Are you some kind of insensitive racist or something?

Sadumbass I repeat is not a terrorist, he might be an arab, he may have attacked a country to try and take it over, he might have broken UN resolutions but can we consider the dictator a terrorist?

Are you listening to yourself here?

We dropped the friggin Atomic BOMB on a bunch of civilians for goodness sake, who the hell are we to be all selfrighteous. Sorry I am not Buying the propaganda. I know to many vet's

You obviously don't know the right vets. See if you can find someone who has actually been shot at. Specifically, why don't you find a vet from WWII that was in the Pacific, if you can find one. First, say "Thank you. Thank you for keeping me free enough to express my ignorant opinions" Then ask if he would have rather dropped the A bombs and ended the war quickly, or gone on to invade Japan. You realize our war planners were estimating that we were going to lose upwards of 1 MILLION men in that invasion, don't you? Probably not, but now you know. One of those men could have been one of your ansectors, in which case you wouldn't be here. Your argument shows your ingorance of history.

At best the guy was looking up to us... he dresses in suits instead of the silly ***robes you see other Arabs leaders wear.

And this has anything to do with this debate how? And by the way, if you watch the news or bother to stay informed, he wears robes as well as his military uniform.

Here is the terrorist sollution we need to stop spending billions destroying and use it to build. In afganistan we used them to help defeat the russians. We trained them supplied them and then when the war was over we hung them out to dry. Not that that justifies anything. But we need to get in there if we are going to spend this money to fight terrorism and use it to build and not destroy.

Again, a statment replete with ignorance. We are doing exactly what you advocate. Bush knows we can't just leave them on their own again or they will revert back to the way they were. It is not an overnight process. If you know a quicker way to do this, please let the President know so that my friends that are there now rebuilding their infastructure can come home. Of course, if we stay there too long, lefties like you will just say we are staying there to build an oil pipeline or something equally ignorant.

resources are running dry all over the world and for them to see us living high on the hog and then going after other countries, presumably for oil makes us look like the Hated.

Please explain how resources are "running dry". If we had wanted oil, we would have just parked ourselves in Iraq and Kuwait after Desert Storm. Did we do that? No. That argument does not hold water.

then we can take the patriot missles out of our state capitol and soldiers out of our terminals.

Great idea! Then you and the Tom Dascles of the world can scream at Bush when something happens. It'll probably go something like this (use schrill girlie voice) WE DIDN"T YOU DO MORE? WHY WASN"T THE MILITARY GUARDING THE AIRPORT? WHY WHY WHY?

We took Koreas cry for help and slapped them in the face calling their primitive tactics a bribe

Was that "cry for help" the admisssion by korea that they had restarted their nuke program, despite their signing an agreement with bubba not to do that? The agreement they broke almost from the get go by continuing their nuke program all the while getting food and fuel from us. What a awesome agreement that was. Really made the world a better place.

the capitol of Korea can't even afford to turn their lights on. They are desperate.

I suppose that's our friggin fault as well?

They hate us because they lack it, more than anything else.

No, they hate us becasue they don't have anything better to do. That is one of the major problems with the region. Of course, if their a$$hole dictator rulers would spend their oil billions on domestic programs and job creation, instead of spending it on themselves flying to Switzerland on the weekends in their Lear jets and drinking and getting blow jobs from blonde Swiss chicks and being good little muslims that they are, we probably would have a little happier crowd of potential terrorist.

My neighbor is pissed at me and he has a gun that he would love to use on me.

He wouldn't happen to be a vet tired of listening to you silly views of the world, would he?

Dude, I've said it before, and I'll say it again. There are people here from all kinds of sectors that are in the know about this crap. It's been laid out here so even JackC, our resident lefty, can understand it. The only way to break it down any further would be to use crayon and REALLY BIG LETTERS. But after all of that, you are of course entitled to your opinion. I just find that it is uninformed and not based in logic and frankly, I'm tired of arguing with people that are not logical and refuse to become informed. So, because your posts are so utterly meaningless, you get the honor of being the only person on this board to join my "ignore user" list. Please never run for President. In fact, don't run for any political office. Just keep your head buried in the sand and we'll take care of your daughters future without you ever having to lift a finger.

[Tarhog]

Jags, all that self-loathing is gonna burn you up man. How can you sleep at night knowing you're a member of a morally defunct country? Many of the folks you are presently arguing with have risked their lives in combat. Does that mean our opinions inherently carry more value and validity than yours? No, absolutely not. But I can gaurantee you that those of us who have been on the ground in wartime have given these issues a great deal more considered thought than your shallow arguments reveal. If you want to argue there are better ways to address the Iraq problem, great. But arguing that Hussein is no threat at all, in the face of all logic, and on top of that, implying that the US is 'just as bad' just doesn't cut it. I'll say it again m-o-r-a-l e-q-u-i-v-a-l-e-n-c-y. Its a fool's paradise.

[EagleSteve]

Originally posted by Bandit

How about we just ask the Iraqi representative to the UN "Hey, where is your boss' Anthrax? You have 24 hours to tell us and produce every gram."

And then, if they produce a few ounces, the French would say that they are cooperating and the inspectors just need more time.

It is time for an ultimatum, though I don't think we really need to issue one. Bush simply needs to say, after launching the attack, that he is protecting the lives of Americans. That is his responsibility and he will not allow the UN to have any say it that responsibility. New York and Washington were attacked, not Paris, Berlin or even London. That makes it a US security issue. The fact the Saddam supports Palestinian terrorism and that Bin Laden has some of the same goals as Iraq is more than enough of a connection with terrorism.

I do not want our country's security undermined by the blatant self-interest of other countries of the world. It's time for us to act in our own self-interest. The removal of Hussein will not end international terrorism, but it will lessen the threat somewhat.

The UN is relevant to us so that Democrats can insist that Republican presidents "consult the world" before taking any action. Democrats know full well that Republicans will not make the same demands of a Democratic president. This can easily be seen in Bush 41, Clinton, Bush 43. Did Clinton ever consult the UN before his escapades? No. Did Bush I and II? Yes, because the Democrats demanded it. Did the Republicans ever demand a UN OK for Haiti? 1998 Iraq? Kosovo? Not that I can recall. Nor did the Democrats call on Clinton to obtain UN "permission." Playing shameless politics with the lives of the military and the security of the US.

[Jagsbch]

Air Sarge, thanks for taking the time and giving somewhat of a rebuttal, I mean I think that’s what it’s all about to share and here counter points regarding our views that we may in the process get just a little bit closer to seeing what is actually happening...

“Sticks and stones from people who can't handle the course of action that needs to be taken. They have no logical response, so they call names. I wouldn't care if the raghead terrorist were Chinese, Japanese, Columbian or Martain, Bush is right, they brought it here, now it's time to reap what you sow.”

Sarge, who are they? Is Iraq They? What have they brought to us?

------------------

“Suprised you used the word "Indians", not PC you know. Are you some kind of insensitive racist or something?”

I didn’t realize how touchy that issue was in this forum, thanks for bringing me up to speed.

---------------

"You obviously don't know the right vets. See if you can find someone who has actually been shot at... Then ask if he would have rather dropped the A bombs and ended the war quickly, or gone on to invade Japan. You realize our war planners were estimating that we were going to lose upwards of 1 MILLION men in that invasion, don't you...”

I know plenty of vets who have been shot at, I have a great deal of respect for them, enough to not want to see future vets from having to go through what they have, especially after a Biological warfare. You know if we attack Iraq Sadumbass will more than likely use chemical weapons on our boys and girls. Sarge just curious do you think that we could have been a little more creative in making Japan aware of our intent to use this WMD on their civilians if they did not surrender? The only reason I bring this issue up is to show the parallel between our two nations regarding the use of these weapons. I mean “let him without sin cast the first stone“. Sure the guy is ruthless to his people but frankly he hasn’t done a damn thing to this country, to warrant an attack by us.

-------------

Dictator =terrorist?

Then I guess Arab = terrorist to you as well, oop’s I mean raghead sorry.

---------------

“Again, a statment replete with ignorance. We are doing exactly what you advocate. Bush knows we can't just leave them on their own again or they will revert back to the way they were. It is not an overnight process. If you know a quicker way to do this, please let the President know so that my friends that are there now rebuilding their infastructure can come home.”

Know, I don’t, but since we did go in there and help with their infrastructure our popularity rose in the Arab world, compared to where it is now of course. There are plenty of things we can do around these third world nations that will help dissolve the hatred they have for us, if we want to fight this war in a fashion that will prove to be more productive than destructive. Bush’s tactics has this country paranoid to the gill. Why can’t you see that our eye for an eye approach was successful on the actual culprits of 911, but if we take this tactical approach and apply it to countries such as Iraq who have not attacked us, why would you assume that the world would be in favor of it. Especially the Arab countries who know Sadumbass is not a terrorist or even a Muslim for that matter.

The World know's that we have been hurt, but we have to be a little bit more mature regarding how we unleash our anger. The world is watching this temper tantrum, and if we think we can go in to Iraq and unleash it on sadumbass, with out the repercussions of the world as well as the Arab nation coming down on us we have another thing coming. No wonder we are so friggin paranoid. Our administration needs to take a valium. We have an anger management problem. Our anger towards terrorism is standing in the way of our ability to be diplomatically rational with critical issues around the world such as Iraq and Korea,.

From my take regarding Korea they have no choice without any help from this administration, but to use Nuclear power plants to supply their people with power. The capitol city is barely lit at night, there is hardly any food on the market shelves for the people these are desperate times for north Korea, times that require a great deal of diplomacy by our Gov. We have had great success trying to keep the Nuclear domino effect from occurring in the Korean peninsula this past decade through diplomacy, as it stands all those efforts where destroyed by this administration inability to keep a diplomatic dialogue flowing with out the use of dead ended ultimatums.

Bush's diplomacy skills was an issues that kept me on the fence until the moment I voted regarding the right candidate for presidency, considering that I live in Florida I feel my vote was as responsible for this mess as anything. And because I voted I have a right to speak out. You can ignore me all you like Sarge but closing yourself in to your views alone is a perfect example of were we stand today as a Nation.

They way I see it Our anger towards 911 is putting us in a position in the world where we have our own guns pointed directly at us. It is only since our anger towards 911 was channeled toward Iraq that we have found ourselves in this ductape and plastic patriot missles in the capitol and .... I can go on and on and on. But Bottom Line we are channeling our anger irrationally, and when we want to seperate ourselves from the rest of the world to wage our anger towards Iraq who has not attacked us then I say we have to take a good look at the man in the Mirror. Make that change...

Ecclesiastes

"Wisdom is better than weapons of war"

[fansince62]

Jag....just stay out of the way......glad you know some vets....how nice for you.....

[Jagsbch]

"The removal of Hussein will not end international terrorism, but it will lessen the threat somewhat."

Blazers21, I totally agree, but getting rid of Saddumbass is not the issue here, it's our approach to getting him out that is. If we wage our war on terror on a Country that has not attacked us, it will do more damage than good regarding our war on terror in the eye's of the rest of the world... Why is it that some of you guys are just not getting it. We can't go in their as a bunch of mad men waging our anger from 911 on him because he is a threat. Just step back and look at the big picture and our place in it. We are using his threat to us as a vehicle to attack? Say what? We can't use the Un resolutions he violated to attack if we are going in outside of UN authority, So his threat is the only vehicle we can use to attack.

This tactic is not going over to well with the rest of the world hence our paranoia. I believe Bush's approach has done more to raise the threat of terror level here of late than than anything else. If we go in without the UN authority I feel that all hell will break loose. It doesn't take a brain surgean to figure that out, as a matter of fact Millions of people who feel the same way are out all over the world protesting the way this war against Iraq is being waged. It's not the means,but the ends to the means that is a huge issue for the world.

Jags, all that self-loathing is gonna burn you up man. How can you sleep at night knowing you're a member of a morally defunct country?... If you want to argue there are better ways to address the Iraq problem, great. But arguing that Hussein is no threat at all, in the face of all logic, and on top of that, implying that the US is 'just as bad' just doesn't cut it.

Never will I or have I ever argue that the US is as Bad as Iraq, Or that Sadumbass is not a threat, you have got to be Kidding. Dude, You have no Idea how far I go to express my Liberties with my lifestyle. I am free as a Bird, with the American dream in my backpocket. I am watching my liberties being washed down the drain with all of this paranoia brought on by our lack of tact and diplomacy regarding our position with most of the world's approach to Saddumbass. Wagging our war on terror towards him for having invaded kuwait, and broke just about every resolution of the UN not the US Just isn't cutting it with the rest of the world, let alone the Arabs who think they are next. This is making for a chain reaction event from Hell,

Can we attack people because they are a threat, it just justifies others to attack us thinking we are a future threat to them. Where is the since in it?

China is a threat, Korea is a threat, Russia is a threat, There are many countries that pose threats to us attacking a country who we can beat because they are a threat makes us look like Bullies. We can't use UN resolutions as an excuse to attack either, when the UN is overwelmingly against an attack. The resolutions are a UN issue not an American Issue. We are the United States of America Not of the world. Give me a surfboard, some reggae, and a cold drink so I can enjoy what little bit of liberty I have left before we Blow it all to smitherines. Whats the friggin Hurry? Paronoia...

All we have to fear is fear itself.

[BG]

Uhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

Jagsbch---First of all, What country are you from? Not a racist question and please don't misconstrue what I ask or say. If you are from the US, please tell me what city and state.

My grandfather fought in the Korean war so I could live free as well. He also fought in WWII. He led a platoon in a kind of famous invasion over there somwhere in France. This invasion freed a country from some dictator who, because he was a dictator and killed millions of people in ways that would frighten even the devil, cannot be associated with terrorism. For some reasonm. Hmmmm. I dunno why.:doh:

Now on a smaller scale, we have a dictator who's associations and reputation speak volumes on his intentions for the future. The same goes for Korea, who has been compliant with truces and resolutions until last year. They held up their end of the bargain and so will we. To bring Korea into this issue on such a broad level is unfair. Know the facts about why we inacted a truce with Kim Il Sung and what we have done to secure peace between our country and NK. There is too much to make an equation to Iraq. Your boys in France are the ones to blame for that f*ck up.

I personally do not want to see any more of my fellow Americans die innocently, nor do I want to see anyone die at all. The fact that George W., who I blasted time and time again before 9/11 and addmittedly have a bit of a soft spot for now, stated days after 9/11 and reiterated in the State of the Union address that the war on terrorism will be long and hard fought. Lives will be lost so that democratic and "free" countries can achieve their goals and protect their citizens.

Your right to be hesitant and to question the reasoning behind any attack. I won't take that away from you . Just do your homework before you go to bed.

[Jagsbch]

Navy brat

Born in Eugene, Oregon. I Live in Jacksonville. My Dad fought in Vietnam. I am a carpenter.

Should we go in as the UN or US?

This makes all the difference in the world.

Right Now the only case to attack Iraq outside of Un and Nato authority is argued by their threat to us. If we are to go in there without UN authority that will be the only legitemate reason we have to go in. Is that enough of a reason to go in and attack Iraq outside of UN and Nato Authority? What Kind of message do we send to the rest of the world by this action. Just because someone is a threat is it ok to attack them. We are the United States of America not the United states of the world.

We are angry about what happened to us 911 but to wage this anger on a country that has not attacked us, is placing the terror threat level to a dangerous point. To say that to wait for Iraq to attack before we attack is ludicrouse, means we should rethink every principle that we hold dear to our hearts.

Iraq's leader though a dictator, is neither a terrorist nor a Muslim for that matter. Being a threat does not warrant or constitute an attack by the US. Russia, China, N. Korea, and countless other countries are threats. Being a threat does not justify one country to attack another. Their alleged support for terrorism is miniscule compared to other countries support, the guy is not even a muslim. The world is opposed to our campaign, and so am I outside of UN and Nato Authority.

The bottom line their threat to us does not justify an attack, and is the only case we can legitamtely make outside of the UN and NATO to attack Iraq.

The UN is the ultimate authority regarding the violation of resolutions. We can't take Worlds authority in our own hands without having to be paranoid at the consequenses of terror we will be facing.

How can we deny the terror threat we escalate when we take international laws in our own hands and attack a nation who has not attacked us? This fuels terrorism more than it does anything else.

I believe to go in there without the UN and NATO AUTHORITY, this war with Iraq could create a chain reaction of events that could very well indeed bring the end of the world to a climax.

A threat does Not Validates a soveriegn countries attack on anothers if it did, Japan attacks N. Korea because they are a threat, India Pakistan, Isreal Palestine,China US, Arab countries Us,...

[BG]

hmmmmmmm.........

For me personally, 9/11 almost destroyed my spirit. I still have an inkling of humanity left in me. Theat inkling still agrees with the sentiment that Americans should do EVERYTHING possible to ensure that such an attack never happens again. Diplomacy and changes in foreign policy will assure nothing. The fact is that everyone has their own problems. We are a sucessful country that makes miney and therefore our problems are thrusted into the spotlight. The countries that oppose us have been somewhat involved in our war on terrorism but are simply afraid of the outcome and that we wil reign as some sort of imperial empire. This is the way that things happen in Star Wars..........come on......................