WP: Not another Katrina

[DjTj]

I said earlier that it's unfair to compare NO to SD in terms of the response from Govts. Two completely different situations.

However, the actions of the people affected, can and should be compared.

But what would that prove? That people from Southern California are much better behaved in a crisis than people from the Gulf Coast?

I think there is plenty of evidence to the contrary:

I think that the people of San Diego were much better managed by the government and have been under the direction of authorities throughout this crisis. The people of New Orleans were abandoned by the authorities and thus acted outside the law. People are people. The situation dicates their behavior.

[Predicto]

I think you're making a grand assumption that A- all of the people affected in NO were poor, and B- all of the people in SD are returning to multimillion dollar homes.

And you are making the assumption, I guess, that all of the people in NO were looters, and so forth. I was pointing out significant differences in the two situations that I beleive to be valid.

And even if that was true, are you saying that the economic disparity is the reason one set of people committed crimes and the other did not? That's an honest question. I tend to believe it works the other way around. Those with a predisposition to act lawlessly (my word) are more likely to end up poor. And those committed to obeying laws and living within the accepted social norms are more likely to succeed.

I tend to believe that when law and order go out of the window, the most likely person to break into a WalMart and steal a VCR is the person who doesn't have three VCRs already. That's all.

[Predicto]

I think you're making a grand assumption that A- all of the people affected in NO were poor, and B- all of the people in SD are returning to multimillion dollar homes.

And you are making the assumption, I guess, that all of the people in NO were looters, and so forth. I was pointing out significant differences in the two situations that I beleive to be valid.

And even if that was true, are you saying that the economic disparity is the reason one set of people committed crimes and the other did not? That's an honest question. I tend to believe it works the other way around. Those with a predisposition to act lawlessly (my word) are more likely to end up poor. And those committed to obeying laws and living within the accepted social norms are more likely to succeed.

I tend to believe that when law and order go out of the window, the most likely person to break into a WalMart and steal a VCR is the person who doesn't have three VCRs already. That's all.

[Predicto]

I said earlier that it's unfair to compare NO to SD in terms of the response from Govts. Two completely different situations.

However, the actions of the people affected, can and should be compared.

Perhaps, but the comparison is difficult because the situations are so different. A simplistic comparison does little good.

Indeed, I would suggest that a simplistic "'nuff said" comparison says at least as much, if not more, about the preconceptions of the poster than about the merits of the situation.

[Predicto]

I said earlier that it's unfair to compare NO to SD in terms of the response from Govts. Two completely different situations.

However, the actions of the people affected, can and should be compared.

Perhaps, but the comparison is difficult because the situations are so different. A simplistic comparison does little good.

Indeed, I would suggest that a simplistic "'nuff said" comparison says at least as much, if not more, about the preconceptions of the poster than about the merits of the situation.

[jbooma]

I think you're making a grand assumption that A- all of the people affected in NO were poor, and B- all of the people in SD are returning to multimillion dollar homes.

And even if that was true, are you saying that the economic disparity is the reason one set of people committed crimes and the other did not? That's an honest question. I tend to believe it works the other way around. Those with a predisposition to act lawlessly (my word) are more likely to end up poor. And those committed to obeying laws and living within the accepted social norms are more likely to succeed.

The ones who had the ability to get out of NO did and the ones who did not coudn't. The poor population was the one that was impacted the worst. People who had the means were able to get to safety.

When a local government starts building a disaster recovery plan they are supposed to TARGET the ones who do not have the means, basicaly the poor. The reason this failed was that is exactly what they did not do.

They waited to long to them out of the area, when the had the means to get the majority out.

Katrina was so bad because thousands of people SHOULD not have even been there because their local government forgot about them.

The federal response was slow but the local and state government have to have a better plan for the poor, and they did not.

Everyone I have talked to that are in the process of redesigning these plans are all using Katrina as examples of what not to do.

[jbooma]

I think you're making a grand assumption that A- all of the people affected in NO were poor, and B- all of the people in SD are returning to multimillion dollar homes.

And even if that was true, are you saying that the economic disparity is the reason one set of people committed crimes and the other did not? That's an honest question. I tend to believe it works the other way around. Those with a predisposition to act lawlessly (my word) are more likely to end up poor. And those committed to obeying laws and living within the accepted social norms are more likely to succeed.

The ones who had the ability to get out of NO did and the ones who did not coudn't. The poor population was the one that was impacted the worst. People who had the means were able to get to safety.

When a local government starts building a disaster recovery plan they are supposed to TARGET the ones who do not have the means, basicaly the poor. The reason this failed was that is exactly what they did not do.

They waited to long to them out of the area, when the had the means to get the majority out.

Katrina was so bad because thousands of people SHOULD not have even been there because their local government forgot about them.

The federal response was slow but the local and state government have to have a better plan for the poor, and they did not.

Everyone I have talked to that are in the process of redesigning these plans are all using Katrina as examples of what not to do.

[Larry]

We all saw the video of electronic stores being completely cleaned out. Big Box stores with security guards helping themselves along side the looters. People pushing big screen tvs through the streets. Cops grabbing stolen goods out of looters hands.

It happened. Denying it is asinine.

There was a total breakdown of civility and law.

Instead of working together to make the best of a terrible situation (see San Diego) a portion of the populace of NO took advantage and used the disaster as a reason to break the law.

Why? What was the difference?

Perhaps part of the difference is that in SD, the 90% of the population who do respect the law aren't in Las Vegas?

There are just a few differences between evacuating a few percent of the people in a town, and evacuating a state.

[Larry]

We all saw the video of electronic stores being completely cleaned out. Big Box stores with security guards helping themselves along side the looters. People pushing big screen tvs through the streets. Cops grabbing stolen goods out of looters hands.

It happened. Denying it is asinine.

There was a total breakdown of civility and law.

Instead of working together to make the best of a terrible situation (see San Diego) a portion of the populace of NO took advantage and used the disaster as a reason to break the law.

Why? What was the difference?

Perhaps part of the difference is that in SD, the 90% of the population who do respect the law aren't in Las Vegas?

There are just a few differences between evacuating a few percent of the people in a town, and evacuating a state.

[TrumanB]

There are just a few differences between evacuating a few percent of the people in a town, and evacuating a state.

A few percent? The last count I heard was that there were over 1 million folks evacuated from San Diego.

[TrumanB]

There are just a few differences between evacuating a few percent of the people in a town, and evacuating a state.

A few percent? The last count I heard was that there were over 1 million folks evacuated from San Diego.

[Head]

Hmm. Let's see. The Superdome was severely damaged by Katrina, while Qualcom has not been touched. This is just a stupid comparison.

Right away, let's make it about race :doh:

Exactly what I was thinking.

When you know something that could kill you is coming, and you know you need to leave, why stick around? I never understood the logic in that.

[Head]

Hmm. Let's see. The Superdome was severely damaged by Katrina, while Qualcom has not been touched. This is just a stupid comparison.

Right away, let's make it about race :doh:

Exactly what I was thinking.

When you know something that could kill you is coming, and you know you need to leave, why stick around? I never understood the logic in that.

[Predicto]

A few percent? The last count I heard was that there were over 1 million folks evacuated from San Diego.

Nah. There are only 1.2 or 1.3 million people in all of San Diego. You must be thinking of the entire SoCal region, which is huge.

Besides, most of them only went a few miles, and went back home within a day or two. The people in New Orleans had a very different situation. They were displaced for weeks, months, going into years. The homes are gone.

It's just different.

[Predicto]

A few percent? The last count I heard was that there were over 1 million folks evacuated from San Diego.

Nah. There are only 1.2 or 1.3 million people in all of San Diego. You must be thinking of the entire SoCal region, which is huge.

Besides, most of them only went a few miles, and went back home within a day or two. The people in New Orleans had a very different situation. They were displaced for weeks, months, going into years. The homes are gone.

It's just different.

[Predicto]

Exactly what I was thinking.

When you know something that could kill you is coming, and you know you need to leave, why stick around? I never understood the logic in that.

Where are you going to go, when you are a down and outer? Up to a third of pre-Katrina New Orleans residents didn't own a car. And how are you going to pay for your trip? What about the rest of your family, your job? It's really not that simple for alot of people, especially when they are not sure that the disaster is actually going to come to pass.

[Predicto]

Exactly what I was thinking.

When you know something that could kill you is coming, and you know you need to leave, why stick around? I never understood the logic in that.

Where are you going to go, when you are a down and outer? Up to a third of pre-Katrina New Orleans residents didn't own a car. And how are you going to pay for your trip? What about the rest of your family, your job? It's really not that simple for alot of people, especially when they are not sure that the disaster is actually going to come to pass.

[jbooma]

The homes are gone.

It's just different.

The homes are also gone in some places in Cali as well, so there are some similarities there.

[jbooma]

The homes are gone.

It's just different.

The homes are also gone in some places in Cali as well, so there are some similarities there.

[TrumanB]

Nah. There are only 1.2 or 1.3 million people in all of San Diego. You must be thinking of the entire SoCal region, which is huge.

Yep, that's what I meant. Still, the point remains the same. There was a huge amount of people evacuated, not just a "few percent". You're correct on your other point too - there are vast differences between this natural disaster and what happend in New Orleans.

[TrumanB]

Nah. There are only 1.2 or 1.3 million people in all of San Diego. You must be thinking of the entire SoCal region, which is huge.

Yep, that's what I meant. Still, the point remains the same. There was a huge amount of people evacuated, not just a "few percent". You're correct on your other point too - there are vast differences between this natural disaster and what happend in New Orleans.

[Predicto]

The homes are also gone in some places in Cali as well, so there are some similarities there.

Yes, there are some 1200 homes gone. That's a lot, but generally they are insured and will be rebuilt. Meanwhile, the insurance company will put you up somewhere else until it happens, just like they did in the Oakland fires fifteen years ago. 99 percent of the people are going home now or are back home already.

Three quarters of the entire city of New Orleans was underwater.

[Predicto]

The homes are also gone in some places in Cali as well, so there are some similarities there.

Yes, there are some 1200 homes gone. That's a lot, but generally they are insured and will be rebuilt. Meanwhile, the insurance company will put you up somewhere else until it happens, just like they did in the Oakland fires fifteen years ago. 99 percent of the people are going home now or are back home already.

Three quarters of the entire city of New Orleans was underwater.

[TrumanB]

Where are you going to go, when you are a down and outer? Up to a third of pre-Katrina New Orleans residents didn't own a car. And how are you going to pay for your trip? What about the rest of your family, your job? It's really not that simple for alot of people, especially when they are not sure that the disaster is actually going to come to pass.

That's why the mayor and governor are to blame for not taking the necessary steps in evacuating those folks. The federal government deserves a lot of the blame for the "post" disaster mess, but it's on Nagin and Blanco for failing to prepare "pre" disaster.

[TrumanB]

Where are you going to go, when you are a down and outer? Up to a third of pre-Katrina New Orleans residents didn't own a car. And how are you going to pay for your trip? What about the rest of your family, your job? It's really not that simple for alot of people, especially when they are not sure that the disaster is actually going to come to pass.

That's why the mayor and governor are to blame for not taking the necessary steps in evacuating those folks. The federal government deserves a lot of the blame for the "post" disaster mess, but it's on Nagin and Blanco for failing to prepare "pre" disaster.