WP: Not another Katrina

[rdsknbill]

:munchout:

This ought to be good.

[Zuck]

San Diego is rich. New Orleans is poor and needed federal help. No matter how organized you are if you don't have the money there's only so much you can do.

They needed help from Bush and he declined.

[Zuck]

San Diego is rich. New Orleans is poor and needed federal help. No matter how organized you are if you don't have the money there's only so much you can do.

They needed help from Bush and he declined.

[hokie4redskins]

I thought you were only going to post once.

I think you missed my point. Look, I'm sorry you had to go through that terrible experience. I was simply saying that claiming righteousness because you were "there" is absurd.

There certainly was a disconnect in collaboration between the Federal and local governments. But to point blame solely at the Feds is unacceptable.

State and local leaders effed up, BADLY, and the Bushies took the political hit. This is as clear as day. If you refuse to see it, I can't help you.

The Department of Homeland Security offers federal grants to cities every year to help prepare for disasters, whether via terrorist attack or natural disaster. Whether through the Urban Area Security Initiative (UASI) or money granted for critical infrastructure protection, the Feds were GIVING this money away.

This was the application before Katrina:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/odp/docs/fy05hsgp.pdf

Louisiana received $42.6 million from the Feds in FY 2005. This was THREE TIMES MORE than the Nation's CAPITAL received.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/odp/docs/fy05hsgp.pdf

New Orleans alone got $9.3 million.

Now, if this wasn't enough, I implore you to find a link where Nagin and Blanco marched up to Capitol Hill BEFORE Katrina demanding more money from the Federal government to help rebuild and fortify the crumbling levees. If you find that link and another one proving the Feds rebuffed their request, I'll respect your wishes and STFU about it.

The problem is, Nagin and Blanco didn't demand SQUAT until AFTER Katrina. Like I said, hindsight is 20/20, but this doesn't change the fact that state and local leadership in Louisiana FAILED the people who put them in office.

[hokie4redskins]

I thought you were only going to post once.

I think you missed my point. Look, I'm sorry you had to go through that terrible experience. I was simply saying that claiming righteousness because you were "there" is absurd.

There certainly was a disconnect in collaboration between the Federal and local governments. But to point blame solely at the Feds is unacceptable.

State and local leaders effed up, BADLY, and the Bushies took the political hit. This is as clear as day. If you refuse to see it, I can't help you.

The Department of Homeland Security offers federal grants to cities every year to help prepare for disasters, whether via terrorist attack or natural disaster. Whether through the Urban Area Security Initiative (UASI) or money granted for critical infrastructure protection, the Feds were GIVING this money away.

This was the application before Katrina:

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/odp/docs/fy05hsgp.pdf

Louisiana received $42.6 million from the Feds in FY 2005. This was THREE TIMES MORE than the Nation's CAPITAL received.

http://www.ojp.usdoj.gov/odp/docs/fy05hsgp.pdf

New Orleans alone got $9.3 million.

Now, if this wasn't enough, I implore you to find a link where Nagin and Blanco marched up to Capitol Hill BEFORE Katrina demanding more money from the Federal government to help rebuild and fortify the crumbling levees. If you find that link and another one proving the Feds rebuffed their request, I'll respect your wishes and STFU about it.

The problem is, Nagin and Blanco didn't demand SQUAT until AFTER Katrina. Like I said, hindsight is 20/20, but this doesn't change the fact that state and local leadership in Louisiana FAILED the people who put them in office.

[daviddsims]

Well I think alot of it has to do with the population of the city. New Orleans is poor and has mostly crime and thugs. They destroyed the superdome and also in North Louisiana everywhere they went were tales of destruction and crime. At one of our local buildings that was used as an evacuation shelter the almost ruined the building in less than a month. They urinated on the walls and actually had feces in the corners. Now the bathrooms worked just fine but instead they would rather destroy something and ask for more help. Sorry just stating the facts, I know I dealt with alot of shelters after they left. I am sick of people being politically correct and calling people racist for stating facts.

[daviddsims]

Well I think alot of it has to do with the population of the city. New Orleans is poor and has mostly crime and thugs. They destroyed the superdome and also in North Louisiana everywhere they went were tales of destruction and crime. At one of our local buildings that was used as an evacuation shelter the almost ruined the building in less than a month. They urinated on the walls and actually had feces in the corners. Now the bathrooms worked just fine but instead they would rather destroy something and ask for more help. Sorry just stating the facts, I know I dealt with alot of shelters after they left. I am sick of people being politically correct and calling people racist for stating facts.

[hokie4redskins]

Well I think alot of it has to do with the population of the city. New Orleans is poor and has mostly crime and thugs. They destroyed the superdome and also in North Louisiana everywhere they went were tales of destruction and crime. At one of our local buildings that was used as an evacuation shelter the almost ruined the building in less than a month. They urinated on the walls and actually had feces in the corners. Now the bathrooms worked just fine but instead they would rather destroy something and ask for more help. Sorry just stating the facts, I know I dealt with alot of shelters after they left. I am sick of people being politically correct and calling people racist for stating facts.

Good post. Just curious, do you feel Blanco and Nagin did all they could to prepare the city pre-Katrina?

[hokie4redskins]

Well I think alot of it has to do with the population of the city. New Orleans is poor and has mostly crime and thugs. They destroyed the superdome and also in North Louisiana everywhere they went were tales of destruction and crime. At one of our local buildings that was used as an evacuation shelter the almost ruined the building in less than a month. They urinated on the walls and actually had feces in the corners. Now the bathrooms worked just fine but instead they would rather destroy something and ask for more help. Sorry just stating the facts, I know I dealt with alot of shelters after they left. I am sick of people being politically correct and calling people racist for stating facts.

Good post. Just curious, do you feel Blanco and Nagin did all they could to prepare the city pre-Katrina?

[Spaceman Spiff]

Been wondering when someone would drag race into this.

Good post though by stwasm, spot on, too.

[Spaceman Spiff]

Been wondering when someone would drag race into this.

Good post though by stwasm, spot on, too.

[Predicto]

There are huge differences. The biggest being that the roads into San Diego are still open, whereas the roads into New Orleans were cut off. Leadership and preparation also matters, as does relative wealth. But the circumstances were totally different.

And Hokie4redskins, don't even try to pretend that you are not trying to deflect blame from the Republicans in Washington to the local Democrats in Louisiana in your posts. That has been the main Rush-Hannity talking point since about 48 hours after Katrina hit. They ran through a ton of stories before they nailed down the current version. They even tried to claim that the Feds lacked any legal authority to go to Louisiana until the state governor formally requested help (and he inexplicably never did). That story died because it was legally and factually false.

Fact is, the Feds were totally incompetent in their response to Katrina. No one was fully prepared, but the disaster was far beyond what a small poor state (and city) could handle. YOU are the one who wants to make sure that the poop only sticks to Nagin and Blanco. Even Trent Lott knows that this argument is total nonsense.

[Predicto]

There are huge differences. The biggest being that the roads into San Diego are still open, whereas the roads into New Orleans were cut off. Leadership and preparation also matters, as does relative wealth. But the circumstances were totally different.

And Hokie4redskins, don't even try to pretend that you are not trying to deflect blame from the Republicans in Washington to the local Democrats in Louisiana in your posts. That has been the main Rush-Hannity talking point since about 48 hours after Katrina hit. They ran through a ton of stories before they nailed down the current version. They even tried to claim that the Feds lacked any legal authority to go to Louisiana until the state governor formally requested help (and he inexplicably never did). That story died because it was legally and factually false.

Fact is, the Feds were totally incompetent in their response to Katrina. No one was fully prepared, but the disaster was far beyond what a small poor state (and city) could handle. YOU are the one who wants to make sure that the poop only sticks to Nagin and Blanco. Even Trent Lott knows that this argument is total nonsense.

[redwoody86]

I must admit that, while race did enter my mind at first, because California has had disasters in the past, it had contigency plans already in place for such an event. Despite the warnings, New Orleans just wasn't prepared for the catastrophe that struck it.

Good post though by stwasm, spot on, too.

I believe the race argument comes into play in relation to Federal help. FEMA seems quick and able to help the SD area people but was not for the NO people.

To me, its easy to see that argument on both sides. Its hard to deny the face that they are more quickly and ably helping the predominately white area than they did with the predominately black area. But, its really hard to say that they did this because of race.

[redwoody86]

I must admit that, while race did enter my mind at first, because California has had disasters in the past, it had contigency plans already in place for such an event. Despite the warnings, New Orleans just wasn't prepared for the catastrophe that struck it.

Good post though by stwasm, spot on, too.

I believe the race argument comes into play in relation to Federal help. FEMA seems quick and able to help the SD area people but was not for the NO people.

To me, its easy to see that argument on both sides. Its hard to deny the face that they are more quickly and ably helping the predominately white area than they did with the predominately black area. But, its really hard to say that they did this because of race.

[TrumanB]

If you weren't there you need to stop making asinine comments like this... all of you

Oh really. So, are we not to make comments about the war in Iraq if we haven't been there?

Nice of you to serve as the message board police. I'll leave you with this:

:stfu: :jerk: :blahblah:

[TrumanB]

If you weren't there you need to stop making asinine comments like this... all of you

Oh really. So, are we not to make comments about the war in Iraq if we haven't been there?

Nice of you to serve as the message board police. I'll leave you with this:

:stfu: :jerk: :blahblah:

[megared]

Federal funding for flood control was decreased by almost 50% after 9/11, leading up to the disaster. It went from $69 mil to $36.5 mil.

Lake Pontchartrain funding (where it flooded) was reduced by about 2/3s, from $14.5 mil to $5.7 mil.

The Army Corps asked for $27 mil in '05 & only got $5.7 mil.

The President cut funding for drainage & other preventative measures from $78 million to $36 mil.

A longterm project to restore the marshes at $14 bil, was only given $570 mil.

Overall funding for flood prevention was cut by 80 percent.

In 2001, FEMA released a publication detailing the three most likely distasters to threaten the US:

"The New Orleans hurricane scenario may be the deadliest of all. In the face of an approaching storm, scientists say, the city's less-than-adequate evacuation routes would strand 250,000 people or more, and probably kill one of 10 left behind as the city drowned under 20 feet (6m) of water. Thousands of refugees could land in Houston. Economically, the toll would be shattering ... If an Allison-type storm were to strike New Orleans, or a category three storm or greater with at least 111mp/h (178km/h) winds, the results would be cataclysmic, New Orleans planners said."

[megared]

Federal funding for flood control was decreased by almost 50% after 9/11, leading up to the disaster. It went from $69 mil to $36.5 mil.

Lake Pontchartrain funding (where it flooded) was reduced by about 2/3s, from $14.5 mil to $5.7 mil.

The Army Corps asked for $27 mil in '05 & only got $5.7 mil.

The President cut funding for drainage & other preventative measures from $78 million to $36 mil.

A longterm project to restore the marshes at $14 bil, was only given $570 mil.

Overall funding for flood prevention was cut by 80 percent.

In 2001, FEMA released a publication detailing the three most likely distasters to threaten the US:

"The New Orleans hurricane scenario may be the deadliest of all. In the face of an approaching storm, scientists say, the city's less-than-adequate evacuation routes would strand 250,000 people or more, and probably kill one of 10 left behind as the city drowned under 20 feet (6m) of water. Thousands of refugees could land in Houston. Economically, the toll would be shattering ... If an Allison-type storm were to strike New Orleans, or a category three storm or greater with at least 111mp/h (178km/h) winds, the results would be cataclysmic, New Orleans planners said."

[twa]

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

A good question would be why?? They(new orleans) knew the chances, they knew it would happen at some point, why were they not prepared??

They assumed it would not happen?(wrongly of course)

There are idiots here as well that ignore the reality of a major storm and it will be ugly if it comes about.

My question is why isn't more done to prevent fires spreading in Cali?

It's not rocket science no more than understanding storm surges/wind damage.

[twa]

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

A good question would be why?? They(new orleans) knew the chances, they knew it would happen at some point, why were they not prepared??

They assumed it would not happen?(wrongly of course)

There are idiots here as well that ignore the reality of a major storm and it will be ugly if it comes about.

My question is why isn't more done to prevent fires spreading in Cali?

It's not rocket science no more than understanding storm surges/wind damage.

[Thanos]

Well I think alot of it has to do with the population of the city. New Orleans is poor and has mostly crime and thugs. They destroyed the superdome and also in North Louisiana everywhere they went were tales of destruction and crime. At one of our local buildings that was used as an evacuation shelter the almost ruined the building in less than a month. They urinated on the walls and actually had feces in the corners. Now the bathrooms worked just fine but instead they would rather destroy something and ask for more help. Sorry just stating the facts, I know I dealt with alot of shelters after they left. I am sick of people being politically correct and calling people racist for stating facts.

You don't have a clue do you?

"They" urinated on the walls."They" destroyed the Superdome.:doh:

[Thanos]

Well I think alot of it has to do with the population of the city. New Orleans is poor and has mostly crime and thugs. They destroyed the superdome and also in North Louisiana everywhere they went were tales of destruction and crime. At one of our local buildings that was used as an evacuation shelter the almost ruined the building in less than a month. They urinated on the walls and actually had feces in the corners. Now the bathrooms worked just fine but instead they would rather destroy something and ask for more help. Sorry just stating the facts, I know I dealt with alot of shelters after they left. I am sick of people being politically correct and calling people racist for stating facts.

You don't have a clue do you?

"They" urinated on the walls."They" destroyed the Superdome.:doh:

[hokie4redskins]

There are huge differences. The biggest being that the roads into San Diego are still open, whereas the roads into New Orleans were cut off. Leadership and preparation also matters, as does relative wealth. But the circumstances were totally different.

And Hokie4redskins, don't even try to pretend that you are not trying to deflect blame from the Republicans in Washington to the local Democrats in Louisiana in your posts. That has been the main Rush-Hannity talking point since about 48 hours after Katrina hit. They ran through a ton of stories before they nailed down the current version. They even tried to claim that the Feds lacked any legal authority to go to Louisiana until the state governor formally requested help (and he inexplicably never did). That story died because it was legally and factually false.

Fact is, the Feds were totally incompetent in their response to Katrina. No one was fully prepared, but the disaster was far beyond what a small poor state (and city) could handle. YOU are the one who wants to make sure that the poop only sticks to Nagin and Blanco. Even Trent Lott knows that this argument is total nonsense.

Predicto, don't even try to pretend that you are not trying to deflect blame from the Democrats in Louisiana to the Federal Republicans in your posts. That has been the main Barbara Streissand talking point since about 48 hours after Katrina hit. Babs ran through a ton of stories before she and NanFran nailed down the current version. She even tried to claim that the state and local officials lacked any competent authority to protect Louisiana and that it was fully the responsibility of George W. Bush. That story died because pinkos from San Francisco tend to be imbeciles.

Fact is, the Nagin and Blanco were totally incompetent in their response to Katrina. No one was fully prepared, but the disaster was Louisiana's jurisdiction given the FEDERALIST state in which we live. YOU are the one who wants to make sure that the poop only sticks to Bush and Co. Even Nagin knows he dropped the ball and that this argument is total nonsense.

I can play this game too. Seriously dude, stop responding to my posts. You don't read them, and I seriously doubt you have the ability to comprehend them. All you do is flame. Did you bother to read the links I provided? I doubt it.

:ciao:

[hokie4redskins]

There are huge differences. The biggest being that the roads into San Diego are still open, whereas the roads into New Orleans were cut off. Leadership and preparation also matters, as does relative wealth. But the circumstances were totally different.

And Hokie4redskins, don't even try to pretend that you are not trying to deflect blame from the Republicans in Washington to the local Democrats in Louisiana in your posts. That has been the main Rush-Hannity talking point since about 48 hours after Katrina hit. They ran through a ton of stories before they nailed down the current version. They even tried to claim that the Feds lacked any legal authority to go to Louisiana until the state governor formally requested help (and he inexplicably never did). That story died because it was legally and factually false.

Fact is, the Feds were totally incompetent in their response to Katrina. No one was fully prepared, but the disaster was far beyond what a small poor state (and city) could handle. YOU are the one who wants to make sure that the poop only sticks to Nagin and Blanco. Even Trent Lott knows that this argument is total nonsense.

Predicto, don't even try to pretend that you are not trying to deflect blame from the Democrats in Louisiana to the Federal Republicans in your posts. That has been the main Barbara Streissand talking point since about 48 hours after Katrina hit. Babs ran through a ton of stories before she and NanFran nailed down the current version. She even tried to claim that the state and local officials lacked any competent authority to protect Louisiana and that it was fully the responsibility of George W. Bush. That story died because pinkos from San Francisco tend to be imbeciles.

Fact is, the Nagin and Blanco were totally incompetent in their response to Katrina. No one was fully prepared, but the disaster was Louisiana's jurisdiction given the FEDERALIST state in which we live. YOU are the one who wants to make sure that the poop only sticks to Bush and Co. Even Nagin knows he dropped the ball and that this argument is total nonsense.

I can play this game too. Seriously dude, stop responding to my posts. You don't read them, and I seriously doubt you have the ability to comprehend them. All you do is flame. Did you bother to read the links I provided? I doubt it.

:ciao: