Gibbs Denies Trade of Brunell (Chan 9 is retracting report)

[mcarey032]

It does sound a little like the Doug Williams trade. By the way I was listening to ESPN news and Parcells and Keyshawn were totally dogging us. I know that they were Cowboys employees, but the Cowboys are not that good! Have they even watched one preseason game that we played this year. They were dogging the O, I can see the criticism somewhat, but the were totally dogging the D and giving us absolutely no respect. What kind of crazy garbage is that? I guess the Cowboys can do no wrong and the Redskins are always terrible! What a croc!

[mi6]

Let's keep it simple guys & gals.

We don't need 2 veteran backups. The questions is simple ... do we keep Mark or Todd. As far as I am concerned, Todd is a better fit.

If we get something for Mark - then all this stupid veteran loyalty b/s needs to be done with... just trade the guy, and get someone useful in retun.

Palmer is a work in progress. He has an arm, and good size. For crying out loud he is a rookie playing with 3rd stringers in a pre-season game what do you expect?

Did Mark "Boonell" walk on water in Thursday's game against the Jags? Don't think so!

[BleedBNG]

Brunell may not have heard of anything yet, but he's kicking back and thinking "So far, everythings cool except for one... staying here as 3rd string."

If so, I think he'll retire instead. I just don't think he'll want to stay here anymore knowing he had a chance to be a backup... trade or no trade.

[SKINS FAN #56]

How bout we just wait and see...

[Recent Vintage]

I'm tired of this crap. Gibbs thinks Brunell is Elway when everyone else knows he's nothing more than a Ty Detmer.

Ty Detmer was in how many probowls?

Detmer won how many playoff games?

Brunell get ridiculous disrespect around here, he's not the second coming of Unitas, and never was, but he's had a good career, and though underperformed for us overall, he still was our QB in '05, the only season worthy of mention so far IN THIS ENTIRE FREAKING CENTURY.

[zCommander]

You don't play a guy that you're gonna trade in a preseason game. It's like driving a car in the snow that you have sold.

Hmmm...not true. Show the other teams look MB still got some play left in him. If you don't show off then other won't know if he can still play good. MB getting that touchdown made him even look better on the trading block.

[zCommander]

ESPN: The Jaguars are also trying to acquire a veteran quarterback to serve as a backup and may turn to former Jacksonville QB Mark Brunell.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/trainingcamp07/news/story?id=2999662

So there might be hope for all the MB haters.

[1Skinsnut]

If Seattle really did call and offer a draft pick and JG backs out of this, I'll be furious.

Again, if those circumstances are true, he's being given a rare opportunity to correct the worst decision he's made in his career. That decision being the one to trade for Mark Brunell in the first place. If he fails again, I'll be more than disappointed.

Nope. The worst decision Gibbs ever made was trading two No. 1 picks to move up in the 1992 draft and grab Desmond Howard. Giving up what we did for Brunell was bad, but the Howard move was brutal.

All that said, Gibbs' great decisions FAR outweigh the bad ones.

[Bang]

I'd like to know who else we could have gotten in 2004 to serve as a veteran stand in while we drafted and groomed his replacement.

Was there some super kick ass free agent QB I'm forgetting?

Gibbs came here to the mess Spurrier left him. (and the cap mess Danny presented him) Anyone who thought he could turn it into a winner overnight is a dreamer's dreamer. It takes time to clear the trash and build. Especially after we'd had 3 coaches in 4 years. (with 3 different philosophies, and thus three different player types to try to mesh together.)

let me refresh your memory at just the QB position.,.. Patrick Ramsey. (Yeah yeah yeah,, seen him play lately? Looks familar doesn't it. Patrick running himself into trouble, Patrick's happy happy feet jittering all around the pocket til it's Patrick taking sacks, Patrick throwing passes into the wrong reads.... Denver's been on NFLN about 14 times this preseason. If you missed his amazing performances, trust me, you've seen it all before.)

Danny Wuerffel

Rob Johnson

In the face of that, even rag arm Brunell looks like a peach.

Nevermind his leadership, which is why Gibbs brought him in here. Nevermind the positive effect he's had on Campbell, which is another reason Gibbs brought him in here, because Brunell is professional and classy enough to know when to give way and when to teach his successor.

(For a counter example, look at how Brett Favre has treated Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay. And look at the former first round pick's progress. He's been in the league as long as Campbell, drafted exactly one pick ahead of JC.

Compare it to Campbell's progress. Now tell me that a veteran that will take a rookie under his wing isn't important. Green Bay is currently ****ed at the most important position on the field. If Favre had treated Rodgers with anything other than disdain, his looming retirement would not be so hard. But next year when he's gone, what will they do? Nevermind his crap attitude cost the team a first round pick wasted on the now busted Rodgers... what will they do?

They've been rebuilding receivers, rebuilding defense, and re-tooling backs, and they're going to hand it all over to ... uh,, who? It is not just a waste of Rodgers,, it's a waste of all those other guys who must now hope GB can pull in a quality free agent QB, or wait until they groom another one. Careers are short. Guys won't hang around for all that. Do you see how that is the polar opposite of what Gibbs has tried to do here?)

Compare us to the Browns. Romeo Crennel is in much the same boat,, he took over a team that had been run totally into the ground. It's going to take some time before he can get enough quality talent in there to try to turn it around. It requires patience and understanding that when you take over a team that has had so much turnover, you've got a bona-fide mess to clean up first before you can build.

So tell me.

Given our very messy, very mismatched team and the climate in 2004, what would you have done differently?

(To those who will yell we should have started Ramsey, you can't possibly believe he would have made us any better. But if you did, then what? You still need two more QBs on the squad... should we have just forged ahead with those bum Gatorskins? Where would that leave us now?)

Some of you guys seem to think that if you shake the tree hard enough, John Elway is going to fall out. And others believe that if you keep putting a bum behind center, he's going to stop being a bum. Well, said bum is on his third team in three years, and in danger of being cut again. If Ramsey is unemployed by 4 today, it won't shock me any.

Think about it. What would you have done differently?

~Bang

[Recent Vintage]

I'd like to know who else we could have gotten in 2004 to serve as a veteran stand in while we drafted and groomed his replacement.

Was there some super kick ass free agent QB I'm forgetting?

Gibbs came here to the mess Spurrier left him. (and the cap mess Danny presented him) Anyone who thought he could turn it into a winner overnight is a dreamer's dreamer. It takes time to clear the trash and build. Especially after we'd had 3 coaches in 4 years. (with 3 different philosophies, and thus three different player types to try to mesh together.)

let me refresh your memory at just the QB position.,.. Patrick Ramsey. (Yeah yeah yeah,, seen him play lately? Looks familar doesn't it. Patrick running himself into trouble, Patrick's happy happy feet jittering all around the pocket til it's Patrick taking sacks, Patrick throwing passes into the wrong reads.... Denver's been on NFLN about 14 times this preseason. If you missed his amazing performances, trust me, you've seen it all before.)

Danny Wuerffel

Rob Johnson

In the face of that, even rag arm Brunell looks like a peach.

Nevermind his leadership, which is why Gibbs brought him in here. Nevermind the positive effect he's had on Campbell, which is another reason Gibbs brought him in here, because Brunell is professional and classy enough to know when to give way and when to teach his successor.

(For a counter example, look at how Brett Favre has treated Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay. And look at the former first round pick's progress. He's been in the league as long as Campbell, drafted exactly one pick ahead of JC.

Compare it to Campbell's progress. Now tell me that a veteran that will take a rookie under his wing isn't important. Green Bay is currently ****ed at the most important position on the field. If Favre had treated Rodgers with anything other than disdain, his looming retirement would not be so hard. But next year when he's gone, what will they do? Nevermind his crap attitude cost the team a first round pick wasted on the now busted Rodgers... what will they do?

They've been rebuilding receivers, rebuilding defense, and re-tooling backs, and they're going to hand it all over to ... uh,, who? It is not just a waste of Rodgers,, it's a waste of all those other guys who must now hope GB can pull in a quality free agent QB, or wait until they groom another one. Careers are short. Guys won't hang around for all that. Do you see how that is the polar opposite of what Gibbs has tried to do here?)

Compare us to the Browns. Romeo Crennel is in much the same boat,, he took over a team that had been run totally into the ground. It's going to take some time before he can get enough quality talent in there to try to turn it around. It requires patience and understanding that when you take over a team that has had so much turnover, you've got a bona-fide mess to clean up first before you can build.

So tell me.

Given our very messy, very mismatched team and the climate in 2004, what would you have done differently?

(To those who will yell we should have started Ramsey, you can't possibly believe he would have made us any better. But if you did, then what? You still need two more QBs on the squad... should we have just forged ahead with those bum Gatorskins? Where would that leave us now?)

Some of you guys seem to think that if you shake the tree hard enough, John Elway is going to fall out. And others believe that if you keep putting a bum behind center, he's going to stop being a bum. Well, said bum is on his third team in three years, and in danger of being cut again. If Ramsey is unemployed by 4 today, it won't shock me any.

Think about it. What would you have done differently?

~Bang

EXACTLY

Thank god someone said that, because I don't have my thoughts nearly that together.

I agree with you 100% sir.

[Buck812]

I hope he stays in Washington too.

How about goes to Washington?

The state that is!

[Buck812]

I'd like to know who else we could have gotten in 2004 to serve as a veteran stand in while we drafted and groomed his replacement.

Was there some super kick ass free agent QB I'm forgetting?

Gibbs came here to the mess Spurrier left him. (and the cap mess Danny presented him) Anyone who thought he could turn it into a winner overnight is a dreamer's dreamer. It takes time to clear the trash and build. Especially after we'd had 3 coaches in 4 years. (with 3 different philosophies, and thus three different player types to try to mesh together.)

let me refresh your memory at just the QB position.,.. Patrick Ramsey. (Yeah yeah yeah,, seen him play lately? Looks familar doesn't it. Patrick running himself into trouble, Patrick's happy happy feet jittering all around the pocket til it's Patrick taking sacks, Patrick throwing passes into the wrong reads.... Denver's been on NFLN about 14 times this preseason. If you missed his amazing performances, trust me, you've seen it all before.)

Danny Wuerffel

Rob Johnson

In the face of that, even rag arm Brunell looks like a peach.

Nevermind his leadership, which is why Gibbs brought him in here. Nevermind the positive effect he's had on Campbell, which is another reason Gibbs brought him in here, because Brunell is professional and classy enough to know when to give way and when to teach his successor.

(For a counter example, look at how Brett Favre has treated Aaron Rodgers in Green Bay. And look at the former first round pick's progress. He's been in the league as long as Campbell, drafted exactly one pick ahead of JC.

Compare it to Campbell's progress. Now tell me that a veteran that will take a rookie under his wing isn't important. Green Bay is currently ****ed at the most important position on the field. If Favre had treated Rodgers with anything other than disdain, his looming retirement would not be so hard. But next year when he's gone, what will they do? Nevermind his crap attitude cost the team a first round pick wasted on the now busted Rodgers... what will they do?

They've been rebuilding receivers, rebuilding defense, and re-tooling backs, and they're going to hand it all over to ... uh,, who? It is not just a waste of Rodgers,, it's a waste of all those other guys who must now hope GB can pull in a quality free agent QB, or wait until they groom another one. Careers are short. Guys won't hang around for all that. Do you see how that is the polar opposite of what Gibbs has tried to do here?)

Compare us to the Browns. Romeo Crennel is in much the same boat,, he took over a team that had been run totally into the ground. It's going to take some time before he can get enough quality talent in there to try to turn it around. It requires patience and understanding that when you take over a team that has had so much turnover, you've got a bona-fide mess to clean up first before you can build.

So tell me.

Given our very messy, very mismatched team and the climate in 2004, what would you have done differently?

(To those who will yell we should have started Ramsey, you can't possibly believe he would have made us any better. But if you did, then what? You still need two more QBs on the squad... should we have just forged ahead with those bum Gatorskins? Where would that leave us now?)

Some of you guys seem to think that if you shake the tree hard enough, John Elway is going to fall out. And others believe that if you keep putting a bum behind center, he's going to stop being a bum. Well, said bum is on his third team in three years, and in danger of being cut again. If Ramsey is unemployed by 4 today, it won't shock me any.

Think about it. What would you have done differently?

~Bang

I cant even remember who was available but hell would have frozen over, pigs would have flown and that little boy would have walked on the moon (again) before Brunnell should have ever worn a burgandy and gold uniform!

[Geoff_K]

It may sound nice to have a player that is good in the locker room, however it sounds nicer (to me) to have a player that can play WELL on the roster. Make him a coach so he isnt taking up a roster spot. ;-)

[Ernie5]

I don't see why they'd trade him for anything less than a 4th. His arm looks good and who's there behind Collins? Palmer's obviously not ready.

[chipwhich]

I'd like to know who else we could have gotten in 2004 to serve as a veteran stand in while we drafted and groomed his replacement.

Was there some super kick ass free agent QB I'm forgetting?

Think about it. What would you have done differently?

~Bang

I always love this excuse.

It's not that Gibbs had anything better per se. What would I have done differently?

First I might have stood pat with Ramsey just to see what he had. Gibbs didn't wait to see what he had in Ramsey, Betts, etc. He just started throwing away picks. Not that Ramsey would have worked, but imagine the QB crop in Gibbs year 2. Wow, what we could have picked up instead of Mark.

Brunell wasn't some super kick ass free agent QB, heck he wasn't even a free agent. But somehow we got Brunell. Our front office could have gotten other QB's just like they got Brunell.

So you can defend the decision, or like Brunell, but don't make the excuse "well what were our other options". Brunell wasn't an option then either, Gibbs made it an option.

[Bang]

I always love this excuse.

It's not that Gibbs had anything better per se. What would I have done differently?

First I might have stood pat with Ramsey just to see what he had.

You've seen what he had. You saw it here, you saw it in NY, and if you've been watching, you saw it in Denver. Same refrain.

i see your one who believes that giving a bum nicer clothes makes him less of a bum.

3 teams in 3 years tells me 3 coaches see things in him you don't.

Gibbs didn't wait to see what he had in Ramsey, Betts, etc. He just started throwing away picks. Not that Ramsey would have worked, but imagine the QB crop in Gibbs year 2. Wow, what we could have picked up instead of Mark Brunell wasn't some super kick ass free agent QB, heck he wasn't even a free agent. But somehow we got Brunell. Our front office could have gotten other QB's just like they got Brunell.

Name names.

Who is this mystery QB we could have gotten?

You can't just say "we could have" without saying who.

I could have won the lotto last night,,, if i had picked the right numbers. I was that close.

As far as Ramsey goes, all this assumes that after watching hours and hours and hours of film, and an entire offseason with Ramsey, that somehow hall of fame head coach Joe Gibbs is too stupid to see the talent Ramsey had, but obviously you saw. Maybe if i knew your credentials like I know Gibbs I'd give that more merit. But when a guy lives at the park like Gibbs does and pays attention to this SO much that he's the only guy in history to win multiple Super Bowls with multiple starting QBs (not some backup like Hostetler was for nY).. well, I think I would trust his decision when it came to Ramsey.

He saw what Ramsey had. And so did Eric Mangini, and now so has Mike Shanahan. As I said, if Ramsey is cut today, you going to be all shocked? I won't, because I've been watching. He's a bum.

So you can defend the decision, or like Brunell, but don't make the excuse "well what were our other options". Brunell wasn't an option then either, Gibbs made it an option.

It isn't an excuse.

it's a question.

You didn't answer it except to say we should have stuck with Ramsey.

But you ignore the other two QBs we had, and the fact that none of that group would be capable of

A/ winning

B/ teaching anyone anything about winning.

So I'm to assume if we had stuck with Ramsey, you believe we'd be better off today as a result. Somehow his happy feet would clear up. Somehow he''d stop throwing INTs and forcing passes into places he shouldn't, Somehow he was going to gain pocket awareness.

But he still hasn't. He still forces passes. He still plays QB like a hamster in a wheel. Feet hopping, frantically trying to figure out where to throw the ball, making stupid mental mistakes over and over again.

You have the luxury of hindsight here. If you can't see that Ramsey doesn't have it now 3 yrs and 3 teams later, what is it you see in him that makes you more correct than 3 coaches, 1 already in the hall of fame, and another one on his way? (Granted Shanahan hasn't cut him yet,, but I don't see why he should keep him. He's looked terrible.) Between these 3 coaches there are 7 Super Bowl rings. What are they missing when it comes to Ramsey?

What we would have been is in the same boat when Gibbs brought in Brunell, except with a year wasted. We'd draft Campbell again in this scenario, and he'd learn absolutely nothing from Ramsey. Or we wouldn't draft Campbell, we'd keep giving Ramsey chances other coaches won't give him either.

Either way, come 2007, now, we'd be behind the 8 ball instead of unveiling our new, poised and looking-ready-to-go starting QB.

I'm not making excuses for Brunell. But again, we have the luxury of hindsight. What were the better options?

~Bang

[BlackMagic21]

well thats dissapointing

[BlackMagic21]

You've seen what he had. You saw it here, you saw it in NY, and if you've been watching, you saw it in Denver. Same refrain.

i see your one who believes that giving a bum nicer clothes makes him less of a bum.

3 teams in 3 years tells me 3 coaches see things in him you don't.

Name names.

Who is this mystery QB we could have gotten?

You can't just say "we could have" without saying who.

I could have won the lotto last night,,, if i had picked the right numbers. I was that close.

As far as Ramsey goes, all this assumes that after watching hours and hours and hours of film, and an entire offseason with Ramsey, that somehow hall of fame head coach Joe Gibbs is too stupid to see the talent Ramsey had, but obviously you saw. Maybe if i knew your credentials like I know Gibbs I'd give that more merit. But when a guy lives at the park like Gibbs does and pays attention to this SO much that he's the only guy in history to win multiple Super Bowls with multiple starting QBs (not some backup like Hostetler was for nY).. well, I think I would trust his decision when it came to Ramsey.

He saw what Ramsey had. And so did Eric Mangini, and now so has Mike Shanahan. As I said, if Ramsey is cut today, you going to be all shocked? I won't, because I've been watching. He's a bum.

It isn't an excuse.

it's a question.

You didn't answer it except to say we should have stuck with Ramsey.

But you ignore the other two QBs we had, and the fact that none of that group would be capable of

A/ winning

B/ teaching anyone anything about winning.

So I'm to assume if we had stuck with Ramsey, you believe we'd be better off today as a result. Somehow his happy feet would clear up. Somehow he''d stop throwing INTs and forcing passes into places he shouldn't, Somehow he was going to gain pocket awareness.

But he still hasn't. He still forces passes. He still plays QB like a hamster in a wheel. Feet hopping, frantically trying to figure out where to throw the ball, making stupid mental mistakes over and over again.

You have the luxury of hindsight here. If you can't see that Ramsey doesn't have it now 3 yrs and 3 teams later, what is it you see in him that makes you more correct than 3 coaches, 1 already in the hall of fame, and another one on his way?(Granted Shanahan hasn't cut him yet,, but I don't see why he should keep him. He's looked terrible.) Between these coaches there's 7 Super Bowl rings. What are they missing when it comes to Ramsey?

What we would have been is in the same boat when Gibbs brought in Brunell, except with a year wasted. We'd draft Campbell again in this scenario, and he'd learn absolutely nothing from Ramsey. Or we wouldn't draft Campbell, we'd keep giving Ramsey chances other coaches won't give him either.

Either way, come 2007, now, we'd be behind the 8 ball instead of unveiling our new, poised and looking-ready-to-go starting QB.

~Bang

Bang your amazing maybe someday I will have as detailed posts as that lol WOW :laugh:

[chipwhich]

You've seen what he had. You saw it here, you saw it in NY, and if you've been watching, you saw it in Denver. Same refrain.

~Bang

WOW, you totally missed the point of my post.

The point was not Ramsey, as I am not a Ramsey fan.

You made some claim that nobody was available...and where would we get two quarterbacks.....WELL, Brunell wasn't available either!!!!! We traded for him!!! My point is the tired excuse that Brunell was our only option. He wasn't our only option...he wasn't an option at all....without a trade.

Had we WAITED and just let Ramsey play, we surely could have picked up Brunell for FREE.

I will have to go back and research who was available in free agency and who we might have been able to trade for the year we got Brunell, and the year following.

[BuryYourDuke]

Geez, I don't think Brunell should be our starter, I think he's a good guy to have as the back up...however, I sure as hell can't wait for him to be gone just so you retards will shut the **** up about him...

[Bang]

WOW, you totally missed the point of my post.

The point was not Ramsey, as I am not a Ramsey fan.

You made some claim that nobody was available...and where would we get two quarterbacks.....WELL, Brunell wasn't available either!!!!! We traded for him!!! My point is the tired excuse that Brunell was our only option. He wasn't our only option...he wasn't an option at all....without a trade.

Had we WAITED and just let Ramsey play, we surely could have picked up Brunell for FREE.

I will have to go back and research who was available in free agency and who we might have been able to trade for the year we got Brunell, and the year following.

Ok, I missed your point, sorry.

Brunell was going to be moved, whether traded or released. In fact, Dallas had shown strong interest in acquiring him. (When we took him they were stuck with Vinny... I'd say that was good enough reason right there )

Personally, I'm not much of a fan of trading away a 3rd for him ,but overall in the grand plan, I have a hard time faulting them. Brunell may not have been the best player, but his locker room presence and veteran experience has proven valuable to Campbell.

Brunell was just a stop gap, as would anyone else have been. In that regard, i think character was way up high on their list of priorities because they knew he's going to teach whoever they drafted.

as weird as it may sound, I think those intangibles, his maturity, his leadership, his calm demeanor meant more to them than his actual playing ability.. since he'd be a lame duck the second he got here expected to groom his successor.

~Bang

[chesapeakehog]

For the second time Coach said MB is not going anywhere and is going to be on the roster.

[Bang]

For the second time Coach said MB is not going anywhere and is going to be on the roster.

Yeah, but you can't really trust what a coach says to the media.

They say anything to try to get any edge.

I doubt he's going to be released or traded too, but not just cause Joe said so.

~Bang

[chesapeakehog]

After seeing Palmer play I would not trade him either. I don't think MB has much left but I would rather have him than Palmer right now.

[2006Skins]

After seeing Palmer play I would not trade him either. I don't think MB has much left but I would rather have him than Palmer right now.

Come on, he would be our 3rd qb! If our season gets to our 3rd quarterback it doesn't matter if Palmer or Brunell is in there our season is done.

I say trade him if you can in hopes of a draft pick!