Dance04 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Dance Lol so I take away half of Brunell's completions and then you also take away more would you like me to go through footage and find you 12 passes he threw pass 20 yards are you that stupid you don't realize he did complete passes for 20 yards and that not every single pass was a dump off. you sir as the stupid one, lets take a look at what we both said. Dance first said " that stat of brunell haveing 24 passing plays of 20+ yards is skewed. At least half of those came in the final 2 minutes of games we had already lost, when the other teams D were playing prevent" no mention of JC at all. i was just saying his stats were skewed bmahoney said " Alright dance then cut if in half, and take away Campbell's pass to cooley in carolina. They now both have 12 and Brunell has 2 more games, really not that drastic of a difference what so ever. " attacking me for no reason then dance said " ok so we are going to take away all plays where the reciever runs for YAC? ok, take away brunells two td passes in the jax game. brunell how has 10, with 2 more games played. or that dump of pass for 74 yard to portis in the texans game. Brunell now had 9. mahoney, just stop now. This is not my opinion, im just throwing YOUR "facts" back in your face." and then you come up with this bogus response that is quoted. good, articulate and informative posts there bud Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funguy1286 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Lloyd since I am not comparing the two back alone, rather the whole run offense here are numbers for this argument:With Portis as starter: 30.4 rushing attempts per game With Betts as starter: 31.2 rushing attempts per game -Will all you please just give credit to our incredible 2nd string RB, he's sick. Damn...got him there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funguy1286 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 all i know iswhen portis started, we didnt pound the rock. portis didnt put up big numbers because he wasnt given the chance. portis was injured from day one, and still managed to score 7 touchdowns. betts scored 4 and fumbled 6 times in 100+ more attempts. the playcalling changed when portis went out, as evidenced by betts blatant pounding of the rock. portis in his last interview was personally complaining that they werent pounding the ball like they were in 05, so its obvious there was a change. when joe gibbs "took back" the team, all we did was power rush. portis never played with campbell either who could stretch the field. mark brunell threw 76% of his passes 10 yards or shorter, so teams could stack the box to take away the pass AND the run. campbell had a much better command of the middle of the field, remember mark was scared of the cover 2, and they stayed up all night trying to solve its crazy ways :doh: betts is a backup. he is probably the best backup in the league, him or turner, who posted similar impressive numbers spelling LT. its awesome that weve got him. but he is not a starter. portis is our starter and a better running back. man training camp can start soon enough. somebody should start a countdown. What percentage did Campbell throw the ball 10 yards or shorter? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideshow24 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 As all of you know, at the end of last season our running game took a big leap forward when back up running back Ladell Betts came in for an injured Portis. Betts success has led to many but not all of us wondering who we believe should be the starting RB for the redskins next year. I'm getting off topic, this is not another Betts v Portis thread and I hope it remains that way. Rather I want to discuss why it is so many of you feel that Betts doesn't. H I think you answered your own question. Its Gibbs game plan and not your boy Betts. Oh, and to answer the question, our running game merely picked up where it left off in 2005 when Portis set the Redskins single season rushing record (with Brunell at QB, by the way). We went back to the Gibbs "smash mouth" game plan and cut out some of that "cutsie" Al Saunders stuff. Gibbs and Bugel both said last year that they changed styles to a more run-oriented style with Betts and JC in the game.Hail, H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMahoney Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 What Facts that I offered did you throw back in my face dance? You really are laughable and talk about articulate, I can hardly read your posts. Secondly since you clearly don't understand what is going on here, Brunell had 22 completions 20+ yards while Campbell had 12. You off the bat take away half of Brunell's throws because hey we were down in the games and the team was just letting us beat them with the pass. However you believe this never was the case for Campbell, so being the nice guy I am I cut Brunell's numbers in half with no proof what soever, I then took away just 1 of Jason Campbell's completions for 20+, you then started taking away more of Brunell's completions because you claim the receiver did it all which could be very true, but it's quite evident you judge these two QB's on a completely different scale and that you just have no idea what you are talking about. If you really think Campbell stretches the field so much, you should look at the article in this thread about how Campbell will CONTINUE to see eight man fronts until he can show that he can throw the deep ball in one on one. Dance I can't believe anyone on this board even still takes you seriously, first I see you comparing LT and Portis about the pre-season debate and now this... watch a game, read an article, and maybe do a little research before posting away. And when quoting me please don't take out bits and pieces and then claim I do not articulate myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMahoney Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 Lol sideshow, did you just quote me when I was quoting someone and say it was me for any reason? And still this doesn't have to do with play calling, it has to do with whether the O-Line really got that much better at the end of the season or the remained the same. Edit ** Notice no Hail, H at the bottom of any of my posts** Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideshow24 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Lol sideshow, did you just quote me when I was quoting someone and say it was me for any reason? Damn, you caught that did you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMahoney Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 Haha yea I did Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideshow24 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 you did post and agree with the quote right? not trying to cheapshot you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMahoney Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 Yea absolutely, I understand the offensive gameplan changed but did the O-Line improve? I also was using the article more to show that Campbell has been seeing 8 man fronts, to show all of those who feel Campbell is this crazy deep threat, that NFL teams are yet to respect his deep ball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideshow24 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 The line played better, but did they improve? That's tricky. Did they get more talented, No. Were they more effective? Yes. They got to play the kind of football they were built and coached up for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 f you really think Campbell stretches the field so much, you should look at the article in this thread about how Campbell will CONTINUE to see eight man fronts until he can show that he can throw the deep ball in one on one. Dance I can't believe anyone on this board even still takes you seriously, first I see you comparing LT and Portis about the pre-season debate and now this... watch a game, read an article, and maybe do a little research before posting away. And when quoting me please don't take out bits and pieces and then claim I do not articulate myself. All that research and you don't bring up that Brunell was playing hurt for the third straight season?What games were you watching? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideshow24 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 I think Betts actually did improve though. Nothing like running first team in real games . I'm glad they had the foresight to get him signed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJWatson3 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Campbell, no doubt. Can't wait to see him start at least 16 this season! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HitStickTaylor21 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 The acquisition of Randy Thomas. He fits perfectly with the system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMahoney Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 Well Mooka if you read a few posts in this thread you would realize it isn't a Campbell v Brunell thread. As far as what games I was watching it was the Redskins games what else? I think your trying to make a point to refute mine but you didn't make it clear rather then come into a thread and cause commotion why don't you just respond to the OP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatSkins27 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 I am sorry but you just cannot credit a rookie QB to a successful run game. Yes obviously teams were slightly more worried about the deep ball but not much. Campbell had 13 completions for 20+ Brunell had 24 completions of 20+. Anyone else have proof of the O-Line in specific, playing at a higher level at the end of the season. not true vionce young was half of tenn running game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 The honest answer is that no one knows until this season plays out. That is the bottom line.If Portis gets in and rushes as big as Betts did last season....then you can credit the offensive line, Campbell....the play calling...whatever else you may think. Everyone except Portis himself. There's a shocker. Some things to consider: The offensive line apparently didn't open holes big enough for TJ Duckett to get through. Campbell didn't scare defenses enough for TJ Duckett to run wildly. The run oriented shift didn't allow TJ Duckett to break 100 yards a game. And no, TJ Duckett doesn't suck. My memory may be fuzzy but I don't recall Duckett getting any real opportunities so it's hard to say exactly what he would have done. I don't think he would have been Portis or Betts-like but that doesn't mean he would have been running 20 times for 50 yards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirk Diggler Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 As all of you know, at the end of last season our running game took a big leap forward when back up running back Ladell Betts came in for an injured Portis. Betts success has led to many but not all of us wondering who we believe should be the starting RB for the redskins next year. I'm getting off topic, this is not another Betts v Portis thread and I hope it remains that way. Rather I want to discuss why it is so many of you feel that Betts doesn't deserve the credit for his outstanding performance last year. I don't remember who said it and was unable to find the article I'm not sure if any of you have a link, but don't you guys remember how highly our offensive line spoke of Betts, about how he was willing to get down and dirty to pick up the yards (kind of appeared as a knock at Portis.) The line and Betts seemed to gel extremely well last season, but I feel this is due to Ladell Betts being a solid RB who never had his opportunity. This gelling a believe has caused many skins fans to believe that anyone could have run through the holes that were open for Betts. However as I occasionally watch the NFL replay and the few games I watch taped from last year (yea I really am that anxious), I notice that these "holes" were no bigger for Betts than any other descent squad in the NFL. What I saw was a back with great vision who could shake a few hits but doesn't have breakaway speed. So I challenge those of you who believe our O-Line deserves all the credit, to offer proof to back up your opinion. Please and I stress PLEASE do not turn this into another Betts V Portis thread, there are far too many. I think there were a number of contributing factors: 1) Level of competition (Minny, Dallas twice, at NYG, JAX are tough spots) 2) Portis's health or lack thereof 3) Campbell's ability to stretch the field even if he wasn't necessarily better at completing passes than MB Had Portis been healthy and played 15 or 16 games, I think he would have threatened his club record year of 2005. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Just because I say an injured Portis was only getting 1 to 2 yards gains does not mean I am down on him, because he has consistently been a 1 to 3 yard back and then every 10th run he breaks one and it is these touchdowns that win us games. I was simply trying to make a comparison of the first and 2nd half of the season it is my fault I should have done first 8 games against last 8 games or something along those lines. Perception is not always reality. Here is a breakdown, game-by-game of the number of carries for both and the number of times they were held to 2 yards or less. Minnesota Betts 8 carries, 4 of those for 2 or fewer yards Portis 10 carries, 4 of those for 2 or fewer yards Houston Betts 16 carries, 3 of those for 2 or fewer yards Portis 16 carries, 5 of those for 2 or fewer yards, although 1 of those was a 1 YD TD.* Jacksonville Betts 11 carries, 5 of those for 2 or fewer yards Portis 27 carries, 12 of those for 2 or fewer yards, although 1 of those was a 1 YD TD.* New York Giants Betts 1 carry, 1 carry of 2 or fewer yards Portis 19 carries, 6 of those for 2 or fewer yards Tennessee Betts 2 carries, 2 of those for 2 or fewer yards Portis 14 carries, 6 of those for 2 or fewer yards Indianapolis Betts 10 carries, 5 of those for 2 or fewer yards Portis 12 carries, 9 of those for 2 or fewer yards Dallas Betts 3 carries, 2 of those for 2 or fewer yards Portis 23 carries, 10 of those for 2 or fewer yards Philadelphia Betts 20 carries, 7 of those for 2 or fewer yards Portis 6 carries, 3 of those for 2 or fewer yards Total Betts 71 carries, 29 of those for 2 or fewer yards (41%) Portis 125 carries, 53 of those for 2 or fewer yards (42%) *Didn't include the 1 yard TD runs in my calculations for obvious reasons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mooka Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Well Mooka if you read a few posts in this thread you would realize it isn't a Campbell v Brunell thread. Well BMahoney, if you read my post of one sentence, you would realize I never said anything of the sort. I think your trying to make a point to refute mine but you didn't make it clear rather then come into a thread and cause commotion why don't you just respond to the OP. Cause commotion? You were insulting someone else claiming they should go watch some games or do some research.My subtle, little point was that if you've done so much research and watched so much film, then you apparently missed that Mark was playing with a gimped shoulder all season, obviously effecting his ability to throw the ball consistently downfield. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMahoney Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 You are looking at Betts numbers when he is not a starter and unable to get into a rhythm. Edit: directed towards Ouvan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMahoney Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 Mooka, I understand Brunell was hurt we all do that doesn't require research. Your point has nothing to do with the topic, you really just brought that one out of left field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 You are looking at Betts numbers when he is not a starter and unable to get into a rhythm.Edit: directed towards Ouvan. I'm looking at the only games where Portis and Betts played against the same defenses and with the same offensive players which is the only real way to do it. You can't compare Portis vs Betts in the games that Portis didn't play in. And for what it's worth Portis didn't exactly get to get into too much of a rhythm last season with his shoulder problems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 What percentage did Campbell throw the ball 10 yards or shorter? ill do the numbers tomorrow, i cant remember if i did them already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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