BMahoney Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 Also here is a piece of information everyone should read before they post. With Betts as starter offense averaged 141.6 rushing ypg With Clinton as starter offense averaged 132.3 rushing ypg -Notice how the amount of rushing yards we got per game hardly changed throughout the season. Still wondering who deserves the credit? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMahoney Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 So your proving my point sideshow, that the line remained consistent all season. Betts was just Na na NASTY Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachingWinsChampionships Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 So your proving my point sideshow, that the line remained consistent all season. Betts was just Na na NASTY Was that your point? I thought: this is not another Betts v Portis thread and I hope it remains that way. Please and I stress PLEASE do not turn this into another Betts V Portis thread, there are far too many. :mad: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMahoney Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 Ummm... I hope that was a joke championships. -THE LINE REMAINED CONSISTENT ALL SEASON -Betts is a good rb and deserves more credit then I feel he has receiver.... nothing to do with Portis, but thanks for your profound insight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 I hate to compare the two and only do so because it pertains to the line, but why is it that all of a sudden the 9th game of the season the O-Line does their assignment correctly, how come Portis was getting caught in the back field and making runs for 1-2 yards majority of the time throughout the first 9 games. look how many times portis rushed in the first 9 games min - 10 rushes dal - out (betts - 11 rushes 40 yards) hou - 16 rushes jax - 27 rushes nyg - 19 rushes ten - 14 rushes ind - 12 rushes dal - 23 rushes phi - 6 rushes (injured) they only had him rush for over 20 TWICE. when betts got in there, all gibbs did was run. after the tampa game where they just let jason bomb the ball all over the place, betts just ran wild. 24, 28, 33, 22, 29, 20. those were his 6 big games. you can blatantly see the playcalling was different at the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CoachingWinsChampionships Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Ummm... I hope that was a joke championships.-THE LINE REMAINED CONSISTENT ALL SEASON -Betts is a good rb and deserves more credit then I feel he has receiver.... nothing to do with Portis, but thanks for your profound insight. I notice that you haven't responded to my other post where I actually discussed the topic. And please don't try and say this is anything other than a Betts v. Portis thread. It may not openly question who the starter should be but it certainly compares their performance last season and adds in the factor of the line play. The line definitely improved later in the season and if you don't recognize that then you don't know jack about football or your straight up blind. Sorry pal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMahoney Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 So what your saying is you have no proof Championshps, and so you know this has absolutely nothing to do with Portis. It has to do with the fact that over and over again in this board Betts does not receive enough credit for what he did, on no other team in the NFL do you hear about a back stepping up and performing at such a high level, and the teams own fans giving the credit to the O-Line. Until you offer proof of the O-Line changing, you cannot talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funguy1286 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 So what your saying is you have no proof Championshps, and so you know this has absolutely nothing to do with Portis. It has to do with the fact that over and over again in this board Betts does not receive enough credit for what he did, on no other team in the NFL do you hear about a back stepping up and performing at such a high level, and the teams own fans giving the credit to the O-Line. Until you offer proof of the O-Line changing, you cannot talk. I agree, Betts deserves much of the credit, the man was a BEAST! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMahoney Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 Lloyd since I am not comparing the two back alone, rather the whole run offense here are numbers for this argument: With Portis as starter: 30.4 rushing attempts per game With Betts as starter: 31.2 rushing attempts per game -Will all you please just give credit to our incredible 2nd string RB, he's sick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CM916 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 The downfield threat that Campbell brought back into the game was certainly a big part but I think there was more to it. The running in the last six games was vintage Gibbs and for that I credit both Gibbs and Bugel along with the O-line. You can also add Betts' ability to run through tackles that I noticed five years ago. You won't see him break a big run very often but he gets enough to keep things moving. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMahoney Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 Dance Lol so I take away half of Brunell's completions and then you also take away more would you like me to go through footage and find you 12 passes he threw pass 20 yards are you that stupid you don't realize he did complete passes for 20 yards and that not every single pass was a dump off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMahoney Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 CM916 I have noticed a pretty much identical observation of Betts as you, he is incredible in between tackles but he just doesn't have the speed to break away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Lloyd since I am not comparing the two back alone, rather the whole run offense here are numbers for this argument:With Portis as starter: 30.4 rushing attempts per game With Betts as starter: 31.2 rushing attempts per game -Will all you please just give credit to our incredible 2nd string RB, he's sick. all i know is when portis started, we didnt pound the rock. portis didnt put up big numbers because he wasnt given the chance. portis was injured from day one, and still managed to score 7 touchdowns. betts scored 4 and fumbled 6 times in 100+ more attempts. the playcalling changed when portis went out, as evidenced by betts blatant pounding of the rock. portis in his last interview was personally complaining that they werent pounding the ball like they were in 05, so its obvious there was a change. when joe gibbs "took back" the team, all we did was power rush. portis never played with campbell either who could stretch the field. mark brunell threw 76% of his passes 10 yards or shorter, so teams could stack the box to take away the pass AND the run. campbell had a much better command of the middle of the field, remember mark was scared of the cover 2, and they stayed up all night trying to solve its crazy ways :doh: betts is a backup. he is probably the best backup in the league, him or turner, who posted similar impressive numbers spelling LT. its awesome that weve got him. but he is not a starter. portis is our starter and a better running back. man training camp can start soon enough. somebody should start a countdown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMahoney Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 It really can't start soon enough, Lloyd we gotta take a turn with this debate because of fear that it will change into one I have already debated a billion times. If you have anymore info to offer why Betts doesn't deserve credit please let me know. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ouvan59 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 I hate to compare the two and only do so because it pertains to the line, but why is it that all of a sudden the 9th game of the season the O-Line does their assignment correctly, how come Portis was getting caught in the back field and making runs for 1-2 yards majority of the time throughout the first 9 games. Well, why did Portis have a higher yards per carry than Betts in 6 of the 8 games that both played in? Betts got the advantage of having a big 2nd half against the Texans after Portis was rested otherwise he has a 3.67 ypc in the first 9 games. I get really tired of people trying to put one or the other back down. We are blessed with two very good backs. IMO it was the offense getting familiar with the new blocking schemes and the offense in general. Assuming Wade can be even an average fillin for Dockery I would expect us to pick up where we left off and both Portis and Betts to have big years. And for those of you downplaying Jason Campbell's affect on this I think you are mistaken. The biggest factor was that the blitz and crowding the line wasn't nearly as effective against Campbell. He showed a good ability to get away from the rush and rarely chucked the ball out of bounds at the first sign of pressure like Brunell. As he gets more and more comfortable back there he has the presence, plus the big body and quick feet, to really make teams pay if they don't get to him on the blitz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
desioreo87 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 all i know iswhen portis started, we didnt pound the rock. portis didnt put up big numbers because he wasnt given the chance. portis was injured from day one, and still managed to score 7 touchdowns. betts scored 4 and fumbled 6 times in 100+ more attempts. the playcalling changed when portis went out, as evidenced by betts blatant pounding of the rock. portis in his last interview was personally complaining that they werent pounding the ball like they were in 05, so its obvious there was a change. when joe gibbs "took back" the team, all we did was power rush. portis never played with campbell either who could stretch the field. mark brunell threw 76% of his passes 10 yards or shorter, so teams could stack the box to take away the pass AND the run. campbell had a much better command of the middle of the field, remember mark was scared of the cover 2, and they stayed up all night trying to solve its crazy ways :doh: betts is a backup. he is probably the best backup in the league, him or turner, who posted similar impressive numbers spelling LT. its awesome that weve got him. but he is not a starter. portis is our starter and a better running back. man training camp can start soon enough. somebody should start a countdown. This is 100% correct. The playcalling was different, the players were different, and the mentality of the team was different. Portis did not benefit from teh refined game plan. If portis is in there during those games we go 5-2 instead of 2-5. If nothing else, portis finds the endzone and betts doesn't, portis holds onto the ball and betts doesn't. Portis has the vision whereas betts picks the first hole he sees and explodes as fast as possible to get as many yards as he can, which works well but he can't hit homeruns cause he doesn't see the field well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMahoney Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 Play calling was only different in the sense we stopped handing the ball off to our wideouts, but please no more mentions of Portis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMahoney Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 And Ouvan where did I put Portis down, I am a strong advocate of bot back and always have been. Just because I say an injured Portis was only getting 1 to 2 yards gains does not mean I am down on him, because he has consistently been a 1 to 3 yard back and then every 10th run he breaks one and it is these touchdowns that win us games. I was simply trying to make a comparison of the first and 2nd half of the season it is my fault I should have done first 8 games against last 8 games or something along those lines. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andy hudson Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 the offence picked up it's game when JC took over, the line worked harder to create gaps for Betts, with JC the deep threat was there so space was created cause of his mobility to make more runs. Betts had a great season and did great job for us, and with Portis im sure our running game will improve this year, a good runnin game will open up the passin game and hopefully more wins this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMahoney Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 Here is something you all should read if you didn't originally posted by Hailskinz Bubba posted this article (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...nfc.east/2.html) a couple weeks ago. Sure, I know some of you will say SI doesn't know anything, but I guarentee you they know more than you. Clipped from the article (emphasis added): "Working with a strong running game, Campbell showed strengths as a play-action passer. With Ladell Betts and a healthy Clinton Portis in the backfield, the Redskins will continue to see eight-man fronts and Campbell has to make them pay for playing single coverage outside. He has spent the offseason preparing to face these looks and will get more game reps during the preseason. If he can pick up where he left off last season, the Redskins offense could produce surprising results." You see, JC had the OPPOSITE effect than what you guys who claim JC is the reason our running game succeeded last year. Teams actually filled the box with JC and we still ran well! I know some of you will think this is bad news, but it's really good news! Finally, if you have the NFL Network and watch the Redskins vs. Giants game a couple weeks ago, you saw exactly that. The Giants played JC with at least 8 men in the box, sometimes they snuck a ninth up there. Fact of the matter is, teams played the RUN when JC was in the game. Don't believe it, watch the games! Oh, and to answer the question, our running game merely picked up where it left off in 2005 when Portis set the Redskins single season rushing record (with Brunell at QB, by the way). We went back to the Gibbs "smash mouth" game plan and cut out some of that "cutsie" Al Saunders stuff. Gibbs and Bugel both said last year that they changed styles to a more run-oriented style with Betts and JC in the game. Hail, H Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMahoney Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 Notice Campbell will CONTINUE to see 8 man fronts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JC girl Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Multiple reasons: Joe going back to the running game more with Campbell in O-line getting in a groove with more emphasis on running Campbell being more of a deep threat Betts is a great 10 yard runner but has trouble breaking away, but great short runs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMahoney Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 JC girl read two posts above Campbell has been seeing 8 man fronts people are not respecting the deep ball yet, this is between O-Line and Ladell. We all know that the offensive mind set shifted last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brandon Lloyd Christmas Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Play calling was only different in the sense we stopped handing the ball off to our wideouts, but please no more mentions of Portis. *wakes up in a coldsweat* "whats wrong baby??" "i had another nightmare" "oh im sorry sweetie.............it wasnt the one where santana runs another reverse was it?" "............................yes." "ill call the doctor first thing" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMahoney Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 Lol and another ARE run for ....... -3 yards. CP sellers and ARE Full house in the backfield..... and another -2 yards. -I think Saunders may have gotten a little to tricky for his own good this past season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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