BMahoney Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 As all of you know, at the end of last season our running game took a big leap forward when back up running back Ladell Betts came in for an injured Portis. Betts success has led to many but not all of us wondering who we believe should be the starting RB for the redskins next year. I'm getting off topic, this is not another Betts v Portis thread and I hope it remains that way. Rather I want to discuss why it is so many of you feel that Betts doesn't deserve the credit for his outstanding performance last year. I don't remember who said it and was unable to find the article I'm not sure if any of you have a link, but don't you guys remember how highly our offensive line spoke of Betts, about how he was willing to get down and dirty to pick up the yards (kind of appeared as a knock at Portis.) The line and Betts seemed to gel extremely well last season, but I feel this is due to Ladell Betts being a solid RB who never had his opportunity. This gelling a believe has caused many skins fans to believe that anyone could have run through the holes that were open for Betts. However as I occasionally watch the NFL replay and the few games I watch taped from last year (yea I really am that anxious), I notice that these "holes" were no bigger for Betts than any other descent squad in the NFL. What I saw was a back with great vision who could shake a few hits but doesn't have breakaway speed. So I challenge those of you who believe our O-Line deserves all the credit, to offer proof to back up your opinion. Please and I stress PLEASE do not turn this into another Betts V Portis thread, there are far too many. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 2 words Jason Campbell. his ability to open up the passing game and take chances down the field and use the entire field Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funguy1286 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 2 words Jason Campbell. his ability to open up the passing game and take chances down the field and use the entire field worst reasoning ever Yeah, a qb who had never played before with a 75 rating and just over a 50% completion percentage struck so much fear into opposing defenses that they backed everyone off the line and let Betts run wild. Get real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMahoney Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 I am sorry but you just cannot credit a rookie QB to a successful run game. Yes obviously teams were slightly more worried about the deep ball but not much. Campbell had 13 completions for 20+ Brunell had 24 completions of 20+. Anyone else have proof of the O-Line in specific, playing at a higher level at the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 worst reasoning everYeah, a qb who had never played before with a 75 rating and just over a 50% completion percentage struck so much fear into opposing defenses that they backed everyone off the line and let Betts run wild. Get real. Brunell was so ineffective that he used only 1 side of the football field and didn't throw the ball more than 10 yards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 I am sorry but you just cannot credit a rookie QB to a successful run game. Yes obviously teams were slightly more worried about the deep ball but not much. Campbell had 13 completions for 20+ Brunell had 24 completions of 20+. Anyone else have proof of the O-Line in specific, playing at a higher level at the end of the season. how many were actually for more than 20 yards and not 20+ with yac Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fifty Gut Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 I credit Joe Gibbs for taking back his offense and showing Saunders how we run the ball Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riggo-toni Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 One thing about Dockery - he always seemed to start the season slow and pick up steam around mid-season. Randy Thomas is probably the best pulling guard in the NFL, which makes him perfect for Gibbs/Buges schemes...ironic since we brought him in to handle SOS's pass happy offense. Having Campbell helped slightly, if only because there was actually a slightly credible deep ball threat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funguy1286 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 how many were actually for more than 20 yards and not 20+ with yac How many deep balls did campbell actually throw? I don't remember many at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cycopath Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 worst reasoning everYeah, a qb who had never played before with a 75 rating and just over a 50% completion percentage struck so much fear into opposing defenses that they backed everyone off the line and let Betts run wild. Get real. actually its a legit reason. i am not saying its the only reason, but it sure as hell helps. with brunell back there, the D had very little worries of getting beat deep. more in the box, stop the run. with campbell at QB, he had the option of going deep and did so. whether is a success or not doesnt matter, the threat is still there. forces the D to back up a bit. add that to the large holes created by the O-Line, and you get a good run game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 How many deep balls did campbell actually throw? I don't remember many at all. moss deep td in NO llyod deep shot in Tampa yoder in tampa cooley tampa moss against atl randel el against eagles just to name a few Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emor09 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Jason Campbell DID help the running game. You can pull stats that Brunell had more 20+ yard completions, but dont lie to yourself, Campbell, even as a rookie, was a much bigger threat to throw deep. Another reason was the playcalling. Once we got back to Redskins football, we werent wondering if Betts would get over 100, it was can Betts can 140? 150? 160? It seemed like Gibbs had more input in the playcalling down the stretch, and we got back to the running game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sideshow24 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 What I saw was a back with great vision who could shake a few hits but doesn't have breakaway speed. I agree with your assessment of Betts, but vision does very little for a back if his line isn't making holes for him to see. Maybe you give too little credit to the line? I think its a number of things: A talented back with something to prove finally getting his chance, getting back to Gibbs style football which the linemen love, and the offensive line getting into a good rhythm. Defenses worrying about Campbell's deep ball played a part too. Personally, I'm thrilled that we have both Betts and Portis on our team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emor09 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 moss deep td in NOllyod deep shot in Tampa yoder in tampa cooley tampa moss against atl randel el against eagles just to name a few Cooley vs Carolina Randle El vs Giants Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Yeah, a qb who had never played before with a 75 rating and just over a 50% completion percentage struck right, there is a qb named vince young with a worser rating and barely 50% completion rate, but travis henry still was running wild. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coldpacker Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 worst reasoning everYeah, a qb who had never played before with a 75 rating and just over a 50% completion percentage struck so much fear into opposing defenses that they backed everyone off the line and let Betts run wild. Get real. tho he was never a TRUE threat? i don't beleive this reasoning is too far off. Being it wasn't portis... but betts might get defenses to soften up a bit but JC showed he can extend the range of the field. I'd also say Al saunders run blocking schemes were the catalyst of the running system and the good vision from betts let us ride on a high horse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
funguy1286 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 right, there is a qb named vince young with a worser rating and barely 50% completion rate, but travis henry still was running wild. Vince Young also was able to back defenses off with his feet. He is a threat to take off for a big gain on every sing pass play. While Campbell has some mobility he is on a different plant then Young in regards to running with the football. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinfan2k Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Vince Young also was able to back defenses off with his feet. He is a threat to take off for a big gain on every sing pass play. While Campbell has some mobility he is on a different plant then Young in regards to running with the football. your point.. he didn't exactly strike fear with his arm but his legs, defenses weren't backing off.. thanks for refuting this fact!!! you still have no answer for the orginial OP question:laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnhay Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 I'd completely disagree with you if you think the offensive line and I guess Joe Bugel don't deserve a lot of the credit. I also will give credit Betts and Al Saunders for realizing Betts' strength as a straight, run-through-the-hole-before-there-is-a-hole type running style. Clinton Portis seems to me like he's more of a runningback who will find the hole first, and then decide what the best course of action is, while Betts isn't that patient and will burst through anything he can find and is less likely to go against the playcall. I think Saunders will adjust to that when Clinton comes back, and we'll have a more successful 'back. Anyone agree with me, or am I just way off? BTW, the TS mentions Betts having great vision which he may have, but I think Portis wins hands down in that category. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMahoney Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 Skinsafn2k dont compare Young and Campbell they are very different backs and Henry was only middle of the pack he had about 60 more yards then Betts on the season. And Staylor of Brunell isn't getting credit for his 20+ passes that were created by the receiver then JC doesn't deserve much credit for Cooley v Carolina. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMahoney Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 My personal opinion is that Gibbs went back to Gibbs style football, but even if this is so Betts was still the man running with the ball in his hand. I think Betts has been very underrated and our O-Line received too much credit for our improved run game, again I still challenge any of you to show me proof of our O-Line playing drastically better for Betts at the end of the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emor09 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 Skinsafn2k dont compare Young and Campbell they are very different backs and Henry was only middle of the pack he had about 60 more yards then Betts on the season. And Staylor of Brunell isn't getting credit for his 20+ passes that were created by the receiver then JC doesn't deserve much credit for Cooley v Carolina. He hit Cooley 15-20 yards, so even if Cooley didnt break 3 tackles, it still would have been a 25 yard gain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnhay Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 moss deep td in NOllyod deep shot in Tampa yoder in tampa cooley tampa moss against atl randel el against eagles just to name a few I don't think you can really say Campbell's passing ability lead to Betts having such a great half of the season. Yes, it may have opened it up a bit from the start of the season, but the deep threat didn't account for that many yards (running I mean. don't start pulling out long passing stats ) I think the passing game went from terrible to mediocre, but the running game went from mediocre to amazing. Those gaps are a little uneven for me to give Campbell more than just a little credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BMahoney Posted July 16, 2007 Author Share Posted July 16, 2007 He hit him for 12 yards about actually, and there was a defender right behind him who messed up the tackle. The fact that the play went for a TD or over 20 was because of Chris Cooley. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
emor09 Posted July 16, 2007 Share Posted July 16, 2007 He hit him for 12 yards about actually, and there was a defender right behind him who messed up the tackle. The fact that the play went for a TD or over 20 was because of Chris Cooley. LOL, i think a 12 year old coulda taken it over 20 yards....Cooley took it from like 25 yards to 66 yards...from 12-25 was just wide open running Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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