Credit who for our Improved running Game

[Genghis Khan]

Joe Bugel he does a really good with our o-lineman and I hope he stays with for a long time.

[Koolblue13]

I think it was more of an aditude change. We were a defeted team last year. We came out of the gate and started to struggle. There was lockerroom problems and everything just seemed to be spirling away from us. Then we sort of woke up. I assume Gibbs toke the team by the reigns. The line got it's toughness back and starting JC, was the turning point. It seemed to me atleast, as soon as we admitted the year was over , guys stopped dwelling on what could be wrong and just started playing. It's like with Carter, he was told, just go get um' and he did. No more guessing and just started playing. I think that was the difference and the aditude we will carry into next year.

[BMahoney]

Koolblue I really hope so, and Taylor I think you have forgotten what happened on the play get a youtube refresher. Cooley caught a pass that was at most 15 yards, when he caught the ball there was a defender directly behind him who should have been able to wrap him up but of course Cooley shrugged it off as the defender dove for him. You are just wrong here there is visual evidence to go against you.

[Underwater Ally]

worst reasoning ever

Yeah, a qb who had never played before with a 75 rating and just over a 50% completion percentage struck so much fear into opposing defenses that they backed everyone off the line and let Betts run wild. Get real.

Brunell was spent and every defensive coordinator in the league knew it. The passing game was much more balanced with Campbell and the difference in arm strenght was obvious to anyone watching. No one was scared by Campbell's reputation. There wasn't anything terribly scary about Campbell's abilities last year. The difference (and it is significant) is that he was an average quarterback with a strong arm. Defenses had to play us like they did any other team when Campbell was in. They couldn't take advantage of Brunell's obvious weaknesses.

See, this isn't a Portis vs. Betts thread. Its a Brunell vs. Campbell thread

[Underwater Ally]

My personal opinion is that Gibbs went back to Gibbs style football, but even if this is so Betts was still the man running with the ball in his hand. I think Betts has been very underrated and our O-Line received too much credit for our improved run game, again I still challenge any of you to show me proof of our O-Line playing drastically better for Betts at the end of the season.

The success was due to several factors. Betts is a good back, Campbell's arm strength and mobility forced defenses to play honest rather than pick on Brunell's well known tendencies, and the offensive line really came together and clicked as the season wore on.

As for Betts, I don't think he was ever underrated. Every coach we had spoke very highly of him. He was just injured a lot his first few seasons and didn't get sustained chances to play consistently because of that.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

number of things

playcalling - no more of the gimp offense we ran in the first half

oline - their blocking improved greatly

teams we played - we bulldozed over some of the most garbage run defenses

quarterback - having a QB who didnt throw 76% of his passes 10 yards or less might have had something to do with opening up the running game.

[Siven]

I am pretty sure Al Saunders has never called plays, but a head coach uses his playbook. I know it was that way in St Louis. It is obvious, that the oline was beginning to fully understand a zone blocking scheme, ala Denver, where anyone can run for big yards, and as a result, Betts ran for big yards.

[BMahoney]

Lloyd do you have any clips or any proof of the o Lines drastic improvement same goes for you Siven.

[Dance04]

that stat of brunell haveing 24 passing plays of 20+ yards is skewed. At least half of those came in the final 2 minutes of games we had already lost, when the other teams D were playing prevent

[BMahoney]

Alright dance then cut if in half, and take away Campbell's pass to cooley in carolina. They now both have 12 and Brunell has 2 more games, really not that drastic of a difference what so ever.

[Lombardi's_kid_brother]

The credit clearly goes to the line even though our line really really annoys me. I will explain:

We've done this every year of the Jansen/Samuels Era. The offensive line plays like crap for a period of games until the coaches tailor a game-plan around their demands. Once that happens, they become a dominant unit. Still, the suspicion I have is that the effort is not there until they running a Neanderthal, smash-mouth type of offense. And as the record showed last year, that alone does not actually win games.

[McD5]

The honest answer is that no one knows until this season plays out. That is the bottom line.

If Portis gets in and rushes as big as Betts did last season....then you can credit the offensive line, Campbell....the play calling...whatever else you may think.

If Portis gets in and underperforms, then obviously much more of the credit needs to be given to Betts.

Some things to consider: The offensive line apparently didn't open holes big enough for TJ Duckett to get through.

Campbell didn't scare defenses enough for TJ Duckett to run wildly.

The run oriented shift didn't allow TJ Duckett to break 100 yards a game.

And no, TJ Duckett doesn't suck.

So until Portis proves otherwise this season....the benefit of the doubt has to be given to Betts just kicking butt, and taking names.

For some reason, it always seems to shock fans that the second string guy just might actually be better than the starter.

And in some cases....Kurt Warner, Brett Favre, Ben Wallace...much, much better.

[BMahoney]

Does anyone have proof of the O-Line because I have watched footage and they don't appear to be blocking any better or opening holes a bus could fit through.

[McD5]

Does anyone have proof of the O-Line because I have watched footage and they don't appear to be blocking any better or opening holes a bus could fit through.

No...that argument is totally bogus.

[CoachingWinsChampionships]

AThis gelling a believe has caused many skins fans to believe that anyone could have run through the holes that were open for Betts. However as I occasionally watch the NFL replay and the few games I watch taped from last year (yea I really am that anxious), I notice that these "holes" were no bigger for Betts than any other descent squad in the NFL. What I saw was a back with great vision who could shake a few hits but doesn't have breakaway speed. So I challenge those of you who believe our O-Line deserves all the credit, to offer proof to back up your opinion.

If you've watched the games over again I don't understand how you can possibly not understand how incredible our o-line was playing and also how consistent they were in making their blocks and getting up to the linebackers. Obviously there were a ton of huge gaping holes opened up later in the season which are extremely impressive to look at but all you really need for a successful running play is to have your blockers hit all, or if your lucky you can get by with nearly all, of their blocks. They're not really expecting to open up massive holes on every play but if they can just hit their assignments and get a lineman or two or a fullback to the next level to create a small lane then they've done their job and the running back can get at least about 4 -5 yards before anyone really has a legitimate chance to tackle him. The big holes come when the linemen drive back the defenders by pumping their legs and using correct hand placement to drive them such that their own back is to the hole, but all you really need is for them to get to their man and get a slight push and not get pushed back into the hole or drive their defender in to the hole. When its the backside linebackers pursuing the play, a safety coming down, or someone else finally getting off a block you are guaranteed to have a successful play.

This is what was happening quite often later in the season. Ladell took advantage of the holes and did a better than OK job of shedding tackles but he was oftentimes getting one on one matchups with safeties or weakside linebackers and getting brought down or held up until help arrived, he just wasn't embarassing defenders the way CP can and he also didn't have the speed to break the play to the sideline after he hit the second level and turn the corner on DB's and thus he was hitting a ceiling of about 12-15 yards on almost all of those carries. Ladell worked his butt off and he did have a very nice burst coming through the holes and did OK in the second level but he just doesn't have the natural talent and speed that CP does to get more of those big plays and avoid defenders in the open field after the line did a great job and sprung him loose into the second level of the defense.

[CoachingWinsChampionships]

I am pretty sure Al Saunders has never called plays, but a head coach uses his playbook. I know it was that way in St Louis. It is obvious, that the oline was beginning to fully understand a zone blocking scheme, ala Denver, where anyone can run for big yards, and as a result, Betts ran for big yards.

Ummm. Al Saunders called plays in KC and choreographed some of the best offenses in the league and he called the plays all last year for us.

[Dance04]

Alright dance then cut if in half, and take away Campbell's pass to cooley in carolina. They now both have 12 and Brunell has 2 more games, really not that drastic of a difference what so ever.

ok so we are going to take away all plays where the reciever runs for YAC? ok, take away brunells two td passes in the jax game. brunell how has 10, with 2 more games played. or that dump of pass for 74 yard to portis in the texans game. Brunell now had 9. mahoney, just stop now.

This is not my opinion, im just throwing YOUR "facts" back in your face.

[909997]

playing crappy run defenses

[Dance04]

Does anyone have proof of the O-Line because I have watched footage and they don't appear to be blocking any better or opening holes a bus could fit through.

look at all the rankings been posted on this site. If i recall, doesnt one have us at 7 and the other at 4? i could be wrong tho. Seems the writers saw we had a damn good offensive line

[HailSkinz1]

worst reasoning ever

Yeah, a qb who had never played before with a 75 rating and just over a 50% completion percentage struck so much fear into opposing defenses that they backed everyone off the line and let Betts run wild. Get real.

Thank you funguy! I've been trying to explain this concept to people all offseason. It's ridiculous.

I've given those who have stated this before several reasons why this is just wrong, so let me give you someone else's perspective.

Bubba posted this article (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/20...nfc.east/2.html) a couple weeks ago. Sure, I know some of you will say SI doesn't know anything, but I guarentee you they know more than you.

Clipped from the article (emphasis added):

"Working with a strong running game, Campbell showed strengths as a play-action passer. With Ladell Betts and a healthy Clinton Portis in the backfield, the Redskins will continue to see eight-man fronts and Campbell has to make them pay for playing single coverage outside. He has spent the offseason preparing to face these looks and will get more game reps during the preseason. If he can pick up where he left off last season, the Redskins offense could produce surprising results."

You see, JC had the OPPOSITE effect than what you guys who claim JC is the reason our running game succeeded last year. Teams actually filled the box with JC and we still ran well! I know some of you will think this is bad news, but it's really good news!

Finally, if you have the NFL Network and watch the Redskins vs. Giants game a couple weeks ago, you saw exactly that. The Giants played JC with at least 8 men in the box, sometimes they snuck a ninth up there.

Fact of the matter is, teams played the RUN when JC was in the game. Don't believe it, watch the games!

Oh, and to answer the question, our running game merely picked up where it left off in 2005 when Portis set the Redskins single season rushing record (with Brunell at QB, by the way). We went back to the Gibbs "smash mouth" game plan and cut out some of that "cutsie" Al Saunders stuff. Gibbs and Bugel both said last year that they changed styles to a more run-oriented style with Betts and JC in the game.

Hail,

H

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Lloyd do you have any clips or any proof of the o Lines drastic improvement same goes for you Siven.

there is no way to prove that other than to sit down and watch every game again. id gladly do it if somebody got me copies of the games on dvd/tape. im just going on what i remember during the games and i remember our oline blowing people off the line around the falcons/2nd eagles game unlike id seen them doing it earlier on in the season. maybe we started playing garbage run Ds, maybe they got way better, maybe betts is walter payton (haha), it could have been a lot of things.

the reason i credit our oline is because were all aware that betts isnt very good. hes been behind this line for 5 years now? 3 under gibbs, if he had been that good we'd have seen him do something like this by now.

[CoachingWinsChampionships]

Does anyone have proof of the O-Line because I have watched footage and they don't appear to be blocking any better or opening holes a bus could fit through.

The only proof you can find is by watching the tape and understanding what you're watching. Only people that truly know football and study it and coach it are really going to understand what each players assignment was on each play based upon the front and the slants are really going to know whether each player successfully did what they were supposed to but we can look it at from a more laymans perspective if you know the basic goals of each type of playcall and see if overall the unit was successful in getting to and making their blocks and if the running back did what he was supposed to do and then made a play on his own when he met the first man that was unnaccounted for by the blocking schemes.

[BMahoney]

I hate to compare the two and only do so because it pertains to the line, but why is it that all of a sudden the 9th game of the season the O-Line does their assignment correctly, how come Portis was getting caught in the back field and making runs for 1-2 yards majority of the time throughout the first 9 games.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Some things to consider: The offensive line apparently didn't open holes big enough for TJ Duckett to get through.

Campbell didn't scare defenses enough for TJ Duckett to run wildly.

The run oriented shift didn't allow TJ Duckett to break 100 yards a game.

And no, TJ Duckett doesn't suck.

dude, stop with the TJ duckett stuff. the guy is a goalline back, he weighs like 260 pounds, theres no way hes running wildly EVER. betts is MUCH more athletic than duckett, not to mention 40 pounds lighter. ducketts rushed for 100 yards ONCE in his career and it was 100 yards and never more. hes hit 3 digits once. so please, stop with the duckett stuff.

[sideshow24]

I hate to compare the two and only do so because it pertains to the line, but why is it that all of a sudden the 9th game of the season the O-Line does their assignment correctly, how come Portis was getting caught in the back field and making runs for 1-2 yards majority of the time throughout the first 9 games.

Difference between a healthy back and an injured one maybe?