Walking Deadman Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Who failed repeatedly until he got a good RB to help out. True, no way he would have won w/o Davis. But I thought I'd answer paloosa's question anyway Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Birdlives Im getting the feeling already from these 25 votes that you might losing in this poll. So in your mature fashion as always Birdlives = Owned... lol what are you a flippin gamer. It's 30 votes now and it's tied...I guess you ran out of alternate accounts to vote under. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bedlamVR Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 Birdlives once again you leave out their rushing numbers since they both do scramble.83 for 552 and 7 tds 24 for 107 and 0 tds Vince however did play alot more games Tom Brady obviously scrambles too as he has more attempts but by your comparioson he sucks as a QB compared to young 49 for 102 and 0 TD Bret Farve was a noted scrambler 23 for 29 and 1TD Payton Manning 23 for 36 and 4TDs (quite impressive really - but not in youngs class) Drew Brees 42 for 32 and 0 TDs But wait LT passes the ball with the chargers so shouldnt he be in the discussion (damn it i cannot find the stats) but he ran for 1815 yards and 28TDs. The point is I have seen your threads before and you only like to seem to stir the pot and kind of get abusive when everyone doesn't agree with you . Young makes worse decisions is less accurate tends to throw more interceptions and fumbles alot (11 lossing 4) Campbell 1 fumble 0 lost . The only aspect of the game Young excels at, at the moment is hoofing it when things break down . To me a great QB is someone who marshells thier team to victory, a leader who the players can have confidence that they act in the benifit of the team . Young is another in the long line of rushing QBs who are exciting and offer something different but they come accross as glory hounds and they hurt the team as much as they help . (Vick,Stewart,Cunningham). That said I think both Young and Campbell have a long way to go and it way to early to guess who would turn out best . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePreciating Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 I voted Vince because of his accomplishments in college. Neither QB has shown enough in the NFL to really answer this question. JC threw fewer picks but he also had a couple years on the old bench. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptr77 Posted June 18, 2007 Share Posted June 18, 2007 By QB rating looks like Campbell wins, didn't realize that Young threw so many INTs last year. Most fans don't realize it. Vince young's great string of "great" play also coincided with travis henry destroying teams. Vince is basically Vick 2 right now imo. He had the worst comp % of starters i believe, and that is with a 60+ comp % against the giants. He can make plays though, and just like vick, QB rating and stats can't show that effect, i just feel he is vastly overrated by almost every analyst and every fan. He is not a top ten QB and he is not a pocket passer at all right now. Both can improve, but right now I would say Vince has the edge, Campbell has more potential as a pocket passer and at reading Ds in my opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cnhnyy Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 There is no contest. VY by a mile. If you put the vote on any other team's forum, 99% people will choose VY. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfos81 Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Since we are talking Stats between the two then take a look at their stats in College and it will also reflect the same thing. That Jason Campbell had a better passer rating and completion rating than Young. Take a look at the links below and see for yourself.Vince Young http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=135107. Jason Campbell http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/player/profile?playerId=103392. So IMO I would take Jason Campbell over Vince Young because even though Vince has better mobility and is a threat to run Jason Campbell makes better decisions in the passing game. Name a QB, other than Steve Young, that was a threat to run, that won a Super Bowl? Randall Cunnningham, Fran Tarkenton and Michael Vick are perfect examples of QB's that were double threats that never have won a Super Bowl up to now. Donovan McNabb is another QB that has that threat and he, Steve Young and Fran Takenton are the only ones that have played in a Super Bowl, with Young the only one to win it. So everyone can say that they would rather have Vince because of his running ability but history shows that has not translated into a Super Bowl win. JC's chances of being a successful Qb seem better imho. I'll take JC he has that good pocket awarness that all GREAT qbs have and he's always looking down the field while moving around the pocket, unlike V.Y. I could see V.Y. making the highlights more often but I could see J.C. winning the superbowl 1st, so I gotta go w/ the better QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfos81 Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 There is no contest. VY by a mile.If you put the vote on any other team's forum, 99% people will choose VY. I don't know about that, did you see the vote for the best team in the NFC and the NFC EAST on Espn? :laugh: Seems like the Redskins got fans all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdlives Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Birdlives Im getting the feeling already from these 25 votes that you might losing in this poll. So in your mature fashion as always Birdlives = Owned... lol what are you a flippin gamer. You can always dream can't you. Reality check, I've said it before in this forum and many times. Guys with so few starts can't be evaluated. It's why I wont judge Romo sits to pee, or Campbell, or Young as of yet. As a matter of fact I haven't even voted in this poll. I don't know who is the better QB because none of them have played enough to evaluate them. If you can find a quote where I said one was better than the other, go ahead and put it up. All I did was get after you for judging either one of them. When you said Young was better based on stats I called you on it. When you said the stats don't matter, it's that fact that he has such a great record, I called you on it. Then you wanted a sig bet on the first four games of the year. Then a full year was okay, but only on total yards and rushing yards had to count. As for maturity, I'm not the one cussing at people and calling them ignorant. I'm not the one who can't admit when he's wrong. I'm not the one who berates people when they dont agree with him. Real mature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdlives Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 There is no contest. VY by a mile.If you put the vote on any other team's forum, 99% people will choose VY. Sure, if you believe the hype. Neither has played enough to truly evaluate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHEREAFTER Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Campbell by a longshot:Young: 53.64 QB rating Campbell: 76.49 QB rating And mind you...this is with Campbell playing with the "worst wrs in the league" according to the thread starter. Yeah...Campbell by a longshot. Well, well well....... what do we have here. That pesky QB rating has reared it's ugly head and THIS time skins fans are using it to distinguish the better QB. :laugh: I'll wait for someone to dig up common opponents in December. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dfos81 Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 V.Y.= better athlete, below average Qb rating J.C.= better Qb rating w/ above average athletiscm Its still too early to tell, kinda like comparing Romo sits to pee to J.C., we really won't know for sure until both have at least started a full season for their respective teams. I'll take J.C. b/c he seems to have really good Qb skills and also b/c he plays starting Qb for my Favorite team. :koolaid: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdlives Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Well, well well....... what do we have here. That pesky QB rating has reared it's ugly head and THIS time skins fans are using it to distinguish the better QB. :laugh: I'll wait for someone to dig up common opponents in December. Taking things out of context is so much fun!:doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdlives Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Your version: Well, well well....... what do we have here. That pesky QB rating has reared it's ugly head and THIS time skins fans are using it to distinguish the better QB. Young: 53.64 QB rating Campbell: 76.49 QB rating And mind you...this is with Campbell playing with the "worst wrs in the league" according to the thread starter. I'll wait for someone to dig up common opponents in December. The actual post: Campbell by a longshot:In their first seven games: Young: 80/173 46% completion rating 841 yards Campbell: 110/207 53.1% 1,297 yards Young: 120 ypg 4.86 ypa Campbell: 185 ypg 6.27 ypa Young: 5 TDs 7 INTs Campbell: 10 TDs 6 INTs Young: 2.89 TD% 4.04 INT% Campbell: 4.83 TD% 2.89 INT% Young: 53.64 QB rating Campbell: 76.49 QB rating And mind you...this is with Campbell playing with the "worst wrs in the league" according to the thread starter. Yeah...Campbell by a longshot. Uh huh, you really got him THA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THEHEREAFTER Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Your version:The actual post: Uh huh, you really got him THA. OmG... you're dense. You didn't get it. The fact that completion percentage and QB rating were featured pieces of his argument was all I needed. I didn't expect you to recognize the hypocrisy. If you did, we wouldn't spend hours arguing on this board. You'll never understand any point I raise because in your eyes, you know it all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdlives Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 OmG... you're dense. You didn't get it. The fact that completion percentage and QB rating were featured pieces of his argument was all I needed. I didn't expect you to recognize the hypocrisy. If you did, we wouldn't spend hours arguing on this board. You'll never understand any point I raise because in your eyes, you know it all. More like, in my eyes you don't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Birdlives Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 OmG... you're dense. You didn't get it. The fact that completion percentage and QB rating were featured pieces of his argument was all I needed. I didn't expect you to recognize the hypocrisy. If you did, we wouldn't spend hours arguing on this board. You'll never understand any point I raise because in your eyes, you know it all. You might want to go back and read the entire thread in the stadium where this came from. Then go back and read this thread in it's entirety after reading that stadium thread. Then you might get what I and Califan007 are and were saying and why it's funny you harped on that one point. Quite frankly it's hilarious that you think you even have a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phatSkins27 Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Their stats from last year, so everyone is aware.Young 184 for 357 51.5% 2,199yds 12tds 13ints 66.7 rating in 15 games Campbell 110 for 207 53.1% 1,297yds 10tds 6ints 76.5 rating in 7 games but Romo sits to pee a 95 rating!!! couldnt resist Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Well, well well....... what do we have here. That pesky QB rating has reared it's ugly head and THIS time skins fans are using it to distinguish the better QB. :laugh: I'll wait for someone to dig up common opponents in December. Did you NOT see the multitude of OTHER stats I used to pick Campbell over Young?...Strange how they didn't show up in your quote of my post. Not to mention that nowhere in my post did I say anything even remotely close to "Campbell has an overall rating of 76!!" to detract from any criticism being leveled at Campbell. That is a Cowboy fan's supposed "trump card" to deflect from the areas of concern...not mine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 OmG... you're dense. You didn't get it. The fact that completion percentage and QB rating were featured pieces of his argument was all I needed. I didn't expect you to recognize the hypocrisy. If you did, we wouldn't spend hours arguing on this board. You'll never understand any point I raise because in your eyes, you know it all. Omg..are YOU dense... The "Romo sits to pee 95 rating :excited: " is used to ridicule the idea that a QB rating TRUMPS EVERYTHING ELSE! Now...try hard and show me where in my post I said Campbell's QB rating trumped everything else as to why I consider him better than Young. Seriously, go do it. We'll all wait while you attempt to show my hypocrisy. And while you're at it, do a search and find ANY post of mine in which I said QB ratings are useless and should not be used when judging a QB's performance. Again, I'm being drop-dead ****ing serious, go find it. Again, we'll wait. And if you can't find any of these things, may I suggest you go to www.dictionary.com... "Hypocrisy" is under "H". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 Quite frankly it's hilarious that you think you even have a point. Besides the one on his head, he doesn't...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmchairRedskin Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 To me it's a case of intangibles vs tangibles. Young is a guy who may not ever put up great stats, but he finds ways to win. He's a born leader and a guy who you can never completely game plan for because he's so unorthodox in his play. You may think you have him wrapped up for a sack when he flips the ball to a guy and that guy takes off for 6. Or you think you got him cornered in for a sack and he leaps over your tackle attempt and picks up a first down with minutes to spare. The dude just has moxie knows how to get things done. I reckon at some point there will be enough film game on him that he has to settle down some to be more effective. He won't be able to run around the field making something out of nothing forever. JC has the tangibles you look for. Especially pocket presence. He's pretty special in that regard. He can feel the rush, he's not too quick to abandon a play (Brunell, I'm looking at you) and he's not easily rattled. Plus he can stiff arm LB's pretty good. I also like the fact that he's made good decisions with the ball and is driven to improve himself as evidenced by all the work he's been putting in. Right now it's too early to tell but I think both guys could have special careers. Both have a lot of potential. For our offense, I think you need the guy with the tangibles. You need somebody that can carry out Saunders' scheme. Not sure Young is your guy in that regard. He's too much of a wildcard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeHateMe Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 The results of this poll are laughable, but we are on ES.com. I'd expect it to be more in favor of Campbell actually. What gives? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Califan007 The Constipated Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 The results of this poll are laughable, but we are on ES.com. True...Campbell should be much farther ahead. I'd expect it to be more in favor of Campbell actually.What gives? The uneducated fans of rival teams that frequent this site are allowed to vote, so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIDETHEWALRUS Posted June 19, 2007 Share Posted June 19, 2007 From a guy who saw a lot of Young at UT, there are a few things that will make or break his career. First he is a pocket QB who uses his legs. Not vice versa like Michael Vick. His legs do however allow him to escape the pocket when pressure is on and make phenomenal plays. His accuracy needs quite a bit of work. In college he had a tendency to be off target. It just happened that the talent he was playing with was always better than the talent he played against (except that Rose Bowl domination). His INT #s are likely to remain high. Also in college he played almost exclusively from the shotgun. He doesn't have heaps of experience from under center and that may hinder his development (especially regarding his ability to read the defense). Young should turn out to be a fantastic NFL QB (when he was drafted I was not so sure because of the aforementioned flaws). The way he played last year shows scoring lower on the Wonderlick than one of Vick's pit-bulls shows that you do not neccesirilly have to have brains to man the QB. JC has all the same tools as Young, a little slower, but seems smarter. Should be interesting to see who turns out better. I would give JC the nod however just because he has a better supporting cast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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