Global warming on Neptune

[Duncan]

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/1998/triton.html

"At least since 1989, Triton has been undergoing a period of global warming. Percentage-wise, it's a very large increase," said Elliot, professor of Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences and director of the Wallace Astrophysical Observatory. The 5 percent increase on the absolute temperature scale from about minus-392 degrees Fahrenheit to about minus-389 degrees Fahrenheit would be like the Earth experiencing a jump of about 22 degrees Fahrenheit.

First we hear Mars is warming and now Neptune. How much evidence does one need to realize the sun plays a much larger role in “global warming” then soccer moms driving SUVs?

[Renegade7]

That doesn't mean that we should ignore the fact that soccer moms driving SUVs isn't helping the situation. Let's not get it twisted. Even though this proves that we aren't the only planet getting warmer, the burning of fossil fuels is rising the CO2 levels in the atmosphere, hence the planet is getting warmer.

[Teller]

What goes up, must come down. *cue cowbell*

Spin the data, to make it go round.

Talkin 'bout your troubles it's a cryin' sin.

Prove it's the sun that does this, what will the lib'rals do then?

Clorofloros and SUVs

Don't have the impact, the sun does you see.

Ninety-six million miles away,

Good luck, Mr. Liberal fixin' the sun today!

Would you mind a directing sign,

Bringing you back to re-a-li-ty?

Would you mind a reflecting sign?

Just let it shine, within your mind,

And show you...the science...that is REEEEEEEEALLLLL!

:laugh:

[Johnny Punani]

The last time I checked Triton was not Neptune.

[Duncan]

The last time I checked Triton was not Neptune.

My bad, it was a moon orbiting Neptune.

[Sarge]

Those thoughtless Tritonian soccer Mom ****es, driving all over the moon in their SUV's:rolleyes:

[Johnny Punani]

The graph you posted does show a correlation between solar output and triton's warming. However, triton is so far away from the Sun there has to be some other things happening. Possibly from Neptune itself.

[Stophovr6]

How much more evidence do we need to downplay the raping of our planet?

[Predicto]

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/1998/triton.html

"At least since 1989, Triton has been undergoing a period of global warming. Percentage-wise, it's a very large increase," said Elliot, professor of Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences and director of the Wallace Astrophysical Observatory. The 5 percent increase on the absolute temperature scale from about minus-392 degrees Fahrenheit to about minus-389 degrees Fahrenheit would be like the Earth experiencing a jump of about 22 degrees Fahrenheit.

First we hear Mars is warming and now Neptune. How much evidence does one need to realize the sun plays a much larger role in “global warming” then soccer moms driving SUVs?

How many times does this nonsense have to be debunked on one message board? It has been explained before in great detail several times.

Mars and Neptune are like the Moon. THEY DO NOT HAVE ATMOSPHERES.

Consequentially, the only changes they EVER GET in their surface temparatures are directly due to marginal changes in the energy received from the sun.

That effect is minimal on Earth, BECAUSE WE HAVE A BIG THICK ATMOSPHERE. It is our atmosphere that controls 99 percent of our temperature here.

Sheesh.

[Johnny Punani]

How many times does this nonsense have to be debunked on one message board? It has been explained before in great detail several times.

Mars and Neptune are like the Moon. THEY DO NOT HAVE ATMOSPHERES.

Consequentially, the only changes they EVER GET in their surface temparatures are directly due to marginal changes in the energy received from the sun.

That effect is minimal on Earth, BECAUSE WE HAVE A BIG THICK ATMOSPHERE. It is our atmosphere that controls 99 percent of our temperature here.

Sheesh.

Whoa! Are you for real? The Sun is the main driving force behind our climate.

[PeterMP]

http://web.mit.edu/newsoffice/1998/triton.html

"At least since 1989, Triton has been undergoing a period of global warming. Percentage-wise, it's a very large increase," said Elliot, professor of Earth, Atmospheric and Planetary Sciences and director of the Wallace Astrophysical Observatory. The 5 percent increase on the absolute temperature scale from about minus-392 degrees Fahrenheit to about minus-389 degrees Fahrenheit would be like the Earth experiencing a jump of about 22 degrees Fahrenheit.

First we hear Mars is warming and now Neptune. How much evidence does one need to realize the sun plays a much larger role in “global warming” then soccer moms driving SUVs?

The problem is that we actually do measure the suns activity, and we know since the 1970's the sun's activity is only up SLIGHTLY and not enough to cause what we see in global warming unless it has been increasing slightly on a regular basis over the last century, which I guess is possible, but even then the experts in the field warn:

"That does not mean industrial pollution has not been a significant factor, Willson cautioned."

And in fact, ties w/ short term solar changes CAN'T firmly be tied to climate change:

"On time scales as short as several days, the TSI can vary by 0.2 percent due to the number and size of sunspots crossing the face of the Sun. That shift, said to be insignificant to weather, is however equal to the total amount of energy used by humans, globally, for a year, the researchers estimate."

Mainly because we have an atmosphere. Unlike Mars and Titon, which have no atmosphere and would be more directly affected by changes in the solar out put.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/sun_output_030320.html

Note the above article is from 2003. We reached a solar minimium in 2006:

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/solarsystem/06mar_solarminimum.html

And yet 2006 was one of the warmest years in the history of the world:

http://environment.about.com/od/globalwarmingandweather/a/2006_hot_year.htm

Now go back and look at the graph in the first link I gave. Normally, when there is a local min in the dotted line (solar output) they aren't at a local max in T. We reached a min in solar output, but are at the local max for temps. We will find out in the next couple of years how screwed we are because if we don't at least slow going down w/ the solar output low that is a very BAD SIGN.

[Predicto]

Whoa! Are you for real? The Sun is the main driving force behind our climate.

Yes, of course it is. It is the energy source for everything. I am not disputing that.

However, our daily temperatures and weather patterns are controlled by how much of that solar energy REMAINS on the planet rather than just bouncing back into space. Which is why we don't all freeze to death every night when the Sun is on the other side of the planet.

The point is, complicated global warming questions on Earth are not resolved by reference to the much simpler analysis of the temperature on a planet or moon without an atmosphere.

I know that you are a global warming sceptic, and that is fine. But you are also a weatherman. You understand that our weather comes from many sources such as the interaction of land masses and oceans, and so forth. You understand that you do not "debunk" the global warming arguments simply by saying that we have observed changes in the temperature on Mars or Triton because our weather is so much more complex. Right?

[Predicto]

lotsof scientific stuff...

Thank you.

[Riggo-toni]

Mars and Neptune are like the Moon. THEY DO NOT HAVE ATMOSPHERES.

I thought Mars had an atmosphere, albeit not nearly as thick as say, Venus or the Earth.

[Predicto]

I thought Mars had an atmosphere, albeit not nearly as thick as say, Venus or the Earth.

Yes, yes it does. But it is so minimal that it has virtually no effect on anything. '

Don't you remember?

god I hope my image leeching works this time

[Pwyl]

How many times does this nonsense have to be debunked on one message board? It has been explained before in great detail several times.

Mars and Neptune are like the Moon. THEY DO NOT HAVE ATMOSPHERES.

Consequentially, the only changes they EVER GET in their surface temparatures are directly due to marginal changes in the energy received from the sun.

That effect is minimal on Earth, BECAUSE WE HAVE A BIG THICK ATMOSPHERE. It is our atmosphere that controls 99 percent of our temperature here.

Sheesh.

http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/M/Marsatmos.html

http://www.nasm.si.edu/ceps/etp/neptune/nept_atmos.html

http://www.boulder.swri.edu/TritonWatch/background.html

[Predicto]

http://www.daviddarling.info/encyclopedia/M/Marsatmos.html

http://www.nasm.si.edu/ceps/etp/neptune/nept_atmos.html

http://www.boulder.swri.edu/TritonWatch/background.html

Yes, yes. Mars and Triton have minimal atmospheres (Neptune isn't even part of the discussion). I already said that.

Did you read Peter MP's post, or are you just trying to gotcha me?

[Johnny Punani]

Yes, of course it is. It is the energy source for everything. I am not disputing that.

However, our daily temperatures and weather patterns are controlled by how much of that solar energy REMAINS on the planet rather than just bouncing back into space. Which is why we don't all freeze to death every night when the Sun is on the other side of the planet.

The point is, complicated global warming questions on Earth are not resolved by reference to the much simpler analysis of the temperature on a planet or moon without an atmosphere.

I know that you are a global warming sceptic, and that is fine. But you are also a weatherman. You understand that our weather comes from many sources such as the interaction of land masses and oceans, and so forth. You understand that you do not "debunk" the global warming arguments simply by saying that we have observed changes in the temperature on Mars or Triton because our weather is so much more complex. Right?

Of course not. However, I would like to add that those other interactions you commented on "land masses and oceans" effect out weather simply because they absorb the Sun's radiation at different rates.

[Johnny Punani]

The problem is that we actually do measure the suns activity, and we know since the 1970's the sun's activity is only up SLIGHTLY and not enough to cause what we see in global warming unless it has been increasing slightly on a regular basis over the last century, which I guess is possible, but even then the experts in the field warn:

"That does not mean industrial pollution has not been a significant factor, Willson cautioned."

And in fact, ties w/ short term solar changes CAN'T firmly be tied to climate change:

"On time scales as short as several days, the TSI can vary by 0.2 percent due to the number and size of sunspots crossing the face of the Sun. That shift, said to be insignificant to weather, is however equal to the total amount of energy used by humans, globally, for a year, the researchers estimate."

Mainly because we have an atmosphere. Unlike Mars and Titon, which have no atmosphere and would be more directly affected by changes in the solar out put.

http://www.space.com/scienceastronomy/sun_output_030320.html

Note the above article is from 2003. We reached a solar minimium in 2006:

http://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/solarsystem/06mar_solarminimum.html

And yet 2006 was one of the warmest years in the history of the world:

http://environment.about.com/od/globalwarmingandweather/a/2006_hot_year.htm

Now go back and look at the graph in the first link I gave. Normally, when there is a local min in the dotted line (solar output) they aren't at a local max in T. We reached a min in solar output, but are at the local max for temps. We will find out in the next couple of years how screwed we are because if we don't at least slow going down w/ the solar output low that is a very BAD SIGN.

However, since we have a thick atmosphere and elements within it that reflects solar radiation there is going to be some lag between solar max/min and atmosphere temps.

[Pwyl]

Yes, yes. Mars and Triton have minimal atmospheres (Neptune isn't even part of the discussion). I already said that.

Did you read Peter MP's post, or are you just trying to gotcha me?

15% gotcha, 85% just adding some more information to the discussion.

[rincewind]

So I guess Neptune is running out of pirates, too. Sad.

[PeterMP]

However, since we have a thick atmosphere and elements within it that reflects solar radiation there is going to be some lag between solar max/min and atmosphere temps.

Yes, there is lag between the local min and local max, but the local min to our knowledge has never coincided w/ a local max as appears to have happened in 2006.

[Stophovr6]

So I guess Neptune is running out of pirates, too. Sad.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Post of the day.

[alexey]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radiative_forcing

[Duncan]

How many times does this nonsense have to be debunked on one message board? It has been explained before in great detail several times.

http://www.nasa.gov/centers/goddard/news/topstory/2003/0313irradiance.html

Since the late 1970s, the amount of solar radiation the sun emits, during times of quiet sunspot activity, has increased by nearly .05 percent per decade, according to a NASA funded study.

"This trend is important because, if sustained over many decades, it could cause significant climate change," said Richard Willson, a researcher affiliated with NASA's Goddard Institute for Space Studies and Columbia University's Earth Institute, New York. He is the lead author of the study recently published in Geophysical Research Letters.