Our traded picks and what we could have had

[dfos81]

Dfbovey, I am talking about I'm happy that Gibbs didn't trade any future picks in 08 in this years draft and I'm glad he didn't leave should I say low and dry after a few seasons like Spurrier.

Just by Gibbs coming back this year shows me how much more love he has for the Skins then the other coaches did. Thats all man, just take a chill pill b/c I'm not against you, unless your against the Skins and I'm talking about from this time on. The past is over and of course if we could go back a change things we would, but its not possible.

So when I made this statement: Good job JG and Staff for not trading away our future and leaving us high dry like other coaches have..cough..cough..Spurrier.

Do you understand what I mean now?

[[[ghost]]]

Do you follow the team? Or just cheer, Go Gibbs, Go team!

That sentence is rediculous. Gibbs and company have been more active in trading draft pics then any Skins teams in history. You're making horrible arguments for the homers. At least be honest.

You're one of those guys who just can't respect other people's opinions, aren't you?

All he said was that he felt that we did well this draft, and that we've done better with Gibbs than with Spurrier. If you don't think that Gibbs has done better than Spurrier, than maybe your the one making horrible arguments.

[dfos81]

Do you follow the team? Or just cheer, Go Gibbs, Go team!

That sentence is rediculous. Gibbs and company have been more active in trading draft pics then any Skins teams in history. You're making horrible arguments for the homers. At least be honest.

You gotta be kidding me! I'm talking about our picks in 08, jeeze can I look forward to the future w/o someone dogging that.

I said good job for Gibbs and Staff not trading away our future picks, meaning future 08 picks and thanks for not leaving us high dry like Spurrier, which if you don't understand that, let me elaborate for you.

Spurrier quit after struggling, which is NOT what Gibbs has done. Gibbs has done better than Spurrier and if you don't belive that then your the one w/ problems.

DO YOU UNDERSTAND?

[monkforhall]

]']You're one of those guys who just can't respect other people's opinions' date=' aren't you?

All he said was that he felt that we did well this draft, and that we've done better with Gibbs than with Spurrier. If you don't think that Gibbs has done better than Spurrier, than maybe your the one making horrible arguments.[/quote']

I totally respect other people's opinions. I also respect the posters right to pose a question and not been told to shut up cause he was a pessimist. I love Gibbs, and I love this team, like I've said, I think they will win the Superbowl. But the fact that we have tried to build this team more through free agency then the draft is not arguable. That is what I am arguing, othe people's opinions, and the right to be a pessimistic fan. I am a homer fan. I don't think you got what I was saying at all. Gibbs Vs Spurrier? What a joke. That is what you read? Sorry, I really need to work on my writing skills.

I respect your opinion as well, if I knew what it was.

[dfos81]

]']You're one of those guys who just can't respect other people's opinions' date=' aren't you?

All he said was that he felt that we did well this draft, and that we've done better with Gibbs than with Spurrier. If you don't think that Gibbs has done better than Spurrier, than maybe your the one making horrible arguments.[/quote']

:applause: :applause: thank you. I'm glad we have some real fans here b/c some of these guys are very dense.

[Art]

Yeah, this is a what could have been thread. Based on the players that would have been available with the picks we traded away and what I would have done with those picks if we had them.

2nd round - Justin Blalock - G - Texas

3rd round - Charles Johnson - DE - Georgia

4th round - Scott Chandler - TE - Iowa

If you couple that with Landry in the first, the linebackers and the QB we took in the later rounds... I think it would have been a hell of a draft.

What did we use the picks for. Can't remember. Duckett is one thing I know .

[dfos81]

Who told who to shut up?

[monkforhall]

If your not happy w/ who we got and don't like what decisions our FO makes, then why are you even considering yourself a fan? Go find a team that makes all the right decisions in your mind, eithier that or SHUTUP!

This is what I'm saying is unnecessary. Who is not respecting other people's opinions. It was uncalled for and rude. Why should one person tell another person how to be a fan.

[dfos81]

What did we use the picks for. Can't remember. Duckett is one thing I know .

I belive Lloyd was traded for our 4th, and Rocky was our 2nd. I may be wrong though.

[dfos81]

Thats asking a question, if you don't like what players we got and decisions the FO makes then why are you considering yourself a fan?

I also said you should go find a team you like that makes all the right decisions in your mind.

I didn't pinpoint a specific person, and tell them to shut up.

My opinion is just the ones that felt like they hated everything we have and what the Skins have done should shutup, doesn't mean you have to, thats all. Sorry if you thought I was speaking towards you. Maybe you feel like one of those fans, sorry your a fan of team you don't like. Sounds like a more personal problem to me.

[dfbovey]

Dfbovey, I am talking about I'm happy that Gibbs didn't trade any future picks in 08 in this years draft and I'm glad he didn't leave should I say low and dry after a few seasons like Spurrier.

I'm happy about that too. It's a nice change of direction if they go into next year's draft with all of their picks. That way I won't be creating another one of these threads.

[monkforhall]

Thats asking a question, if you don't like what players we got and decisions the FO makes then why are you considering yourself a fan?

/QUOTE]

That is what i'm talking about. How did his question turn into you questioning his fandom?? It was a simple question. If you read any of my posts, i'm a total homer. I've predicted superbowl for the last 20 years every year. I've been right a couple times. I'm going to go to another thread, since this one turned into something the poster did not intend. I'm going to find something that interests me? Not one to bash, or question loyalties.

Sorry for contributing to a dumb argument.

[Art]

Gotcha.

I generally disliked the Duckett move for reasons I'm incredibly partial and biased toward Rock's abilities. My problem is the more I see people off their dismissive comments as to that move, the more I wonder if any of them even understood why it happened.

Obviously some combination of valuing Rock's special teams play and devaluing him as a possible starting runner, led to the decision to protect against Portis not being able to continue -- which happened -- and Betts' failure to carry the load/or injury -- which didn't. Now, after his first start, people were screaming for Duckett and dismissing Betts as horrible and a bust who can't carry the load.

Duckett seems like a bad idea now primarly because Betts didn't break down and he did take off. But, throughout the year, if I recall, many people were convinced he was the man we should be playing. They apparently valued him as a player and wanted him in. Some of these did so because he cost a third rounder, so, play him, period. Others did so because they hated Betts.

Now, we generally all understand Duckett was not necessary. We were so bad a team, protecting against failure wasn't really an issue. We were obviously incorrect in our presumption we would grow into the offense while the defense would hold things down and we'd eventually get some good kicking butt going and would need a back for it.

In the end, we surrendered more for him than was necessary in any regard. So, whether things had worked out differently or not was irrelevant. Like with Moss for Coles, we overpaid to get less value than we gave up. Moss worked out. Duckett didn't. It does seem most people hold us more accountable for the Duckett overpayment than the Moss one because they now like Moss and he's proven to be a good player.

I just don't know that I evaluate the merits of a move long after the players involved reveal whether they can play or not.

I'd have preferred Brandon Lloyd to be the player most of us, and most of the league, viewed him as when we acquired him than to have any of the unknown possibilities we could have drafted. Hell, if Lloyd catches 80 balls this year, there will be people proclaiming him as great and loving the trade for him. I suppose I get that it works that way, but, for me, given every move is a question mark, the real judgement is at the moment a move is made, not after a move works out or fails.

Moss isn't a great trade because he played great. It was a bad trade on the merits of the deal that wound up getting us a player better than he was at the time of the trade. Lloyd was worse and if he rebounds, won't make the initial trade superior, it'll just make the evaluation of Lloyd better than it is right now .

Though, this is certainly splitting hairs.

In the end, I prefer moving up taking Rocky, because we needed a player like him and could get him, than to wait a year, pick names out of the air you find the most attractive possible, and say, "See, had we not done that we could have done this." In two years if Rocky is in the Pro Bowl, I suppose it'll be fair to say, "Dummy, you wanted Blaylock. You crazy."

[dfbovey]

What did we use the picks for. Can't remember. Duckett is one thing I know .

2nd rounder was used to trade up for McIntosh. (probably because we were lacking the pick to take him last year)

3rd rounder was used for Duckett.

4th rounder was used for Lloyd.

[dfbovey]

Art, I think they devalued Betts more than they devalued Rock. I think they didn't know what they had in Betts until last year. And if they knew that he was capable of those kinds of performances, Duckett wouldn't have been on the radar.

Asa far as the what if game, I just wanted to illustrate the kind of drafts we could have if we'd stop playing catch up, trading future picks for picks now, trading for disgruntled players from other teams ect. I look forward to a full draft again (hopefully next year).

Oh, and I'd be perfectly happy if McIntosh turns out to be a pro bowler

[Art]

2nd rounder was used to trade up for McIntosh.

3rd rounder was used for Duckett.

4th rounder was used for Lloyd.

Honestly, man, I prefer those three names to the ones you came up with .

[Art]

Art, I think they devalued Betts more than they devalued Rock. I think they didn't know what they had in Betts until last year. And if they knew that he was capable of those kinds of performances, Duckett wouldn't have been on the radar.

Perhaps. I think this is perfectly reasonable to think. Either way, I was generally against it because I thought we had the element we sought to assure we had, and the team did not. And, the price was far beyond market value for a running back at this point in the league's trading history.

[jbooma]

Honestly, man, I prefer those three names to the ones you came up with .

You preferred a RB that did nothing and is no longer on the roster to someone that could have been around for say 4 years or more

You forget the OTHER pick we give up for Lloyd, remember a 3rd and 4th, but yes it is great to get no TD's from a guy you wasted two picks and paid $$ money too. Art for what you consider return on investment I would be scared to invest in a company you start

It is ok to say we have no clue so we throw picks on players that OTHER TEAMS draft because we can't

[dfbovey]

Honestly, man, I prefer those three names to the ones you came up with .

I don't. McIntosh is the only guy on the list that I'd want to keep. But with our current line situation, Justin Blalock would compete for a starting job pretty quickly. IMO he'll be a better pro than Dockery.

Duckett over a young prospect on the defensive line?

Lloyd might be better than the TE prospect I listed, but I'd rather not have Lloyd on the roster regardless.

[Art]

You preferred a RB that did nothing and is no longer on the roster to someone that could have been around for say 4 years or more

You forget the OTHER pick we give up for Lloyd, remember a 3rd and 4th, but yes it is great to get no TD's from a guy you wasted two picks and paid $$ money too. Art for what you consider return on investment I would be scared to invest in a company you start

It is ok to say we have no clue so we throw picks on players that OTHER TEAMS draft because we can't

And, as I said, if Lloyd turns around and pulls down 80 with 10 TDs, we'll all say, "Ahh, that's what we thought." He could also simply be an abject failure after getting the money. Perfectly valid. But, I prefer his proven position in the NFL to any rookie who's never played a down. Lloyd had upside as well. He clearly had downside too, as all people do.

But, I'm unlikely to EVER prefer a guy who's never played a snap in the NFL if I have a chance to acquire someone who has proven to be an NFL level player. I'll always mitigate my downside risk where I can with guys who've proven more. I'd be surprised if just about everyone wouldn't agree with that allowed themselves to be honest.

[whatmeworry]

I find these shoulda, woulda, coulda threads a complete waste of time. Sure, it would be great if our FO was 100% right 100% of the time but not even the Patrots are that astute. We've made some good FA pickups over the past few years (ARE, Carter, Griff, Washington, etc) and some clunkers (AA, Lloyd (maybe),etc). We've also had some solid draft pickups. (ST, CC, Golston)

[jbooma]

And, as I said, if Lloyd turns around and pulls down 80 with 10 TDs, we'll all say, "Ahh, that's what we thought." He could also simply be an abject failure after getting the money. Perfectly valid. But, I prefer his proven position in the NFL to any rookie who's never played a down. Lloyd had upside as well. He clearly had downside too, as all people do.

But, I'm unlikely to EVER prefer a guy who's never played a snap in the NFL if I have a chance to acquire someone who has proven to be an NFL level player. I'll always mitigate my downside risk where I can with guys who've proven more. I'd be surprised if just about everyone wouldn't agree with that allowed themselves to be honest.

Art it all comes down to financial responsibility. You may not preferr that guy but to have an equal balance across the team it is needed. When you are paying all of your WR"s 40 million and the you wonder why we have spare parts on our DL, well there is a reason. With those picks we give up we can save money if we actually could draft well.

It would be great to have a 3 to 4 year player at every position, but guess what you can't

[onnie007]

Yeah, this thread is a complete waste of time. Quit crying about the past and move on people. The FO ****ed up and they now it. The tried to make the smart additions this year in FA and had a good draft. They learned from their mistake and made it a point not to touch next year's draft at any cost. Lets applaud them for finally learning from their mistakes and will to change their philosophy. Their are going things on the horizon but you can't even see it coming because you too busy looking back. Can't wait to see LL and ST on the same field in the preseason. HTTR

[Dana87]

The 2nd rounder right now seems like a mistake until we see Rocky on the field. If he puts up 100+ tackles and gets over the injury bug that trade looks better then it does now.

The 3rd rounder is bad....No way around that one

the 4th rounder is questionable. Based on talent Lloyd is a high round value but can he put it together on the field??

I agree with your assessment. We would not have Rocky if we didn't trade up last year. He was high of a few teams boards that were ahead of us. The 3rd rnd pick for Duckett turned out bad no doubt, but I do understand why they felt they had to do it at the time. As far as a 4th rounder which is the rest of the 3rd & 4th we sent to SF for Lloyd is still think we will come out smelling like a rose. Keep in mind New England gave Miami a 2nd and a 7th for Welker.

[dfbovey]

What I find funny is that if this thread is such a complete waste of time, why reply to it.