Why are Skins fans so soft?

[Eileenma]

I wish people would start telling some of these so called fans and experts off. People act like this is not a storied franchise that is not only successful, but also willing to innovate in order to assertain that success. People act as though we never won a Superbowl before. If you ask me there is way to much wine and cheese eating fans for my taste. A friend of mine said it's pathetic how we allow Eagle, Giants, and Cowgirl fans disrespect us. And I'm starting to agree with him. We are 3 out of 4 in Superbowls, we have 3 coaches in the HoF. Yet in still we give credence to arguements that Art Monk isn't a HoF, but James Lofton is. When did James Lofton win a chip? Countless times I've come on this site and seen spineless chit chat about how the nah sayers are right....*uck them. Recently I've read about how bad our team is at drafting, yet SI gives us high marks for 1981, and if you look we've done well in later rounds in securing talent like Smoot, and Dockery. However there will be some fake bandwagon skins fan saying "Dan doesn't know what he's doing". Well I have some news for you, Dan is a hell of an owner. Gibbs is a great coach, and maybe we will start winning. Me I like to tell people that tell me my teams sucks, call me Patrick Roy, because like him I can't hear all the bs with two rings in my ears. Ok I'm out of time, Illl rant more tommorow.

We are 3 out of 4 in Superbowls,

Actually, it is 3 out of 5.

Hail Skins............Eileen

[skinsn24]

What drives me crazy isn't losing cause everybody has to go through stretches of losses. But Danny boy/Gibbs/Vinny running our front office is like Bush/Chaney running the war in Iraq. Everybody says "things are going great" but we all know that they have no clue what they're doing. And its just upsetting.

YESSS. I have been saying this for a long time but you gotta add rumsfeld to the mix as the scapegoat, who is obviously going to be vinney...as far as who is bush/cheney your guess is as good as mine

[skinsn24]

Are you really 20??

This well reasoned analogy isn't what I'd expect from Generation Ipod :D

LOL, generation IPOD, i havent heard that before. Not bad though

I just go to college, sleep all day, and read the text books, teachers try to put their propganda in my ear, but certain text books teach me things. Anyway, thanks for the compliment, but remember 20 years olds (im just about 21) are pretty smart people, only a year away from college graduation in most cases. I think we get hated on this board a little because of our age.

Back on topic though, people who say "whether we are good or bad, im still on the bandwagon"...same here, i am just willing to express my discontent with the failure, i will never stop rooting for this team, but i wont stop complaining either, untill we start winning again of course.:2cents:

[skinsn24]

Why are Skins fans so soft? I think it's the aloe in the hand soap at FedEx Field.

HAHAHAHaHAHAHAH ....Always can use a good laugh:cheers:

[TotalRecall]

People act like this is not a storied franchise that is not only successful, but also willing to innovate in order to assertain that success. People act as though we never won a Superbowl before. If you ask me there is way to much wine and cheese eating fans for my taste. A friend of mine said it's pathetic how we allow Eagle, Giants, and Cowgirl fans disrespect us. And I'm starting to agree with him. We are 3 out of 4 in Superbowls, we have 3 coaches in the HoF.

One word....Raiders.

Actually two words....Dolphins.

And it's 3 out of 5 in Super Bowls.

[stwasm]

You're missing my point. - You blame Snyder for turning this team into a "laughing stock". This team was bad long before he came.

I also demonstrated that 3 coaches in 8 seasons is the norm these days in the NFL. It shows how hard it is to find the right fit, as evidenced by 16 new head coaches in the last 2 seasons around the league.

Yes, we've had more losing seasons than winning seasons since Snyder bought the team, but that doesn't mean that's always the way it's going to be. The 2 constants the six years prior to Snyder was, we always sucked, and didn't try to do anything about it. "What we do works" was the motto after a 0-7 start.

Like the starter of this thread, I see the glass as half full.

You can dislike Snyder all you want, but I believe he's learning, and he also tries. I'd rather try and fail then not try at all.

One team having three coaches in eight years is not "the norm in the league." Maybe I'm missing it, but show me where we're poised to run off a succession of winning seasons. I see Snyder opening talking trades for players we don't need. I see Snyder taking players out to dinner and trying to evaluating players when he has absolutely no experience doing that. I see Snyder answering questions about players when he's not qualified to do that. Jack Kent Cooke and Edward Bennett Williams, the team's last two owners, let their front offices do the work. The only time those two stepped in is if there was a disagreement between coach and GM. Not coincidently, there was a LOT more winning than losing during that time. Additionally, the front office did its homework and worked hard to find those low-round gems and undrafted free agents, who eventually made major, long-term contributions to this football club (see: Joe Jacoby, Clint Didier, Don Warren).

Maybe he is "learning," as you say. But, the front office in its current form has proven that it's more about the big stars, the sexy picks and the big-named free agents than it is about the low-round, no-names who could turn into major, long-term contributors. It also has shown an unwillingness to take care of those quality players who could be long-term solutions on the field (see: Antonio Pierce).

[jimster]

Still, I wish I were afforded 10 years to learn a job.

Like the previous owner with Norv?

[Thinking Skins]

YESSS. I have been saying this for a long time but you gotta add rumsfeld to the mix as the scapegoat, who is obviously going to be vinney...as far as who is bush/cheney your guess is as good as mine

See, I was debating with myself between Rove, Libbey and Gonzales. I had completely forgot about Rumsfeld.

[skinsn24]

See, I was debating with myself between Rove, Libbey and Gonzales. I had completely forgot about Rumsfeld.

Haha. Well after the draft with this "shake up" coming, vinney could be on the way out or demoted. So it seems he will become rumsfeld. Gotta love it

[NewCliche21]

Jesus, man. Our team sucks now. It's sucked for a long time. 1981? My parents hadn't even met then. It's great to have a history, yeah, but when your only success is two out of fifteen years (Yes, from 1992 to 2006 IS fifteen), and you've only been around for twenty-two years, yeah, I think I have every effing right to be pissed off at this team.

Would I still buy every hat I could find? Yes. Would I take a bullet for Gibbs before I'd take one for my fiancee? Absolutely.

But that doesn't mean that I'm happy with the team, which has been ass for literally as long as I can remember.

[jimster]

One team having three coaches in eight years is not "the norm in the league."

Arizona - 3rd in 5 years

Atlanta - 3rd in 5 years

Batlimore - same coach since 1999

Buffalo - 3rd in five years

Carolina - 2nd in 5 years

Chicago - 2nd in 5 years

Cincinatti - 2nd in 5 years

Cleveland - 3rd in 7 years

Dallas - 3rd in 7 years

Denver - same coach since 1996

Detroit - 4th in 7 years

Green Bay - 2nd in 7 years

Houston - 2nd in 6 years

Indianapolis - 2nd in 5 years

Jacksonville - 2nd in 6 years

Kansas City - 3rd in 6 years

Miami - 3rd in 4 years

Minnesota - 3rd in 6 years

New England - 2nd in 8 years

New Orleans - 3rd in 7 years

New York Giants - 2nd in 5 years

New York Jets - 4th in 8 years

Oakland - 5th in 7 years

Philadelphia - same coach since 1999

Pittsburg - replaced longest tenured coach this year

San Diego - 3rd in 6 years

San Francisco - 3rd in 6 years

Seattle - same coach since 1998

St Louis - 3rd in 8 years

Tampa Bay - 2nd in 6 years

Tennesse - same coach since 1995

Washington - 3rd in 8 years

16 teams have had 3 or more coaches in the last eight years

11 have had 2

5 teams have had the same coach for more than eight years.

I see Snyder opening talking trades for players we don't need. I see Snyder taking players out to dinner and trying to evaluating players when he has absolutely no experience doing that. I see Snyder answering questions about players when he's not qualified to do that.

these are all assumptions by you. - A through-the-grapevine story of Rosenhaus approaching Snyder about Briggs leads you to assume that "Snyder opens trade talks with players"? How do you know that IF Snyder was approached by Rosenhaus, he didn't take the idea to Gibbs, who obviously doesn't like anybody at #6, thought it was a good way to get a great player while trading down?

As far as wining and dining free agents, this is done after the coaches identify that player as someone they want. -It's done after the fact as part of the free agent recruiting process.

When has Snyder answered questions about players? You mean giving the same generic reponses that Gibbs gives "yeah, he's a great player" or "sure, we'd like to have him" or "we want a pro-bowl caliber player". - kinda sounds like every other owner in the league this time of year.

Maybe he is "learning," as you say. But, the front office in its current form has proven that it's more about the big stars, the sexy picks and the big-named free agents than it is about the low-round, no-names who could turn into major, long-term contributors. It also has shown an unwillingness to take care of those quality players who could be long-term solutions on the field (see: Antonio Pierce).

That is also the way of the NFL in these free agency days. - You have to fill holes with experienced players. Almost every team does, every year. - Even New England went out and signed a bunch of big name free agents. We don't do it every single year, unless you think London Fletcher, Fred Smoot and Macklin are "sexy" (not that there's anything wrong with that )

I agree we should use the draft more, but the trading picks has been more Gibbs thing, because it worked for him in the past. It looks like he is now realizing its value in this era.

Pierce I would have like to kept as well, but Gibbs felt it would have been wrong to pay him more than the recently signed Marcus Washington. I didn't like it either, but understand the rationale.

I'm thankful that Gibbs is learning some things himself right now, because he is someone that Snyder respects and trusts, so hopefully he will carry these lessons with him in the future about building winning teams, the value of the draft, chemistry and good character players.

[Redshu]

I wish people would start telling some of these so called fans and experts off. People act like this is not a storied franchise that is not only successful, but also willing to innovate in order to assertain that success. People act as though we never won a Superbowl before. If you ask me there is way to much wine and cheese eating fans for my taste. A friend of mine said it's pathetic how we allow Eagle, Giants, and Cowgirl fans disrespect us. And I'm starting to agree with him. We are 3 out of 4 in Superbowls, we have 3 coaches in the HoF. Yet in still we give credence to arguements that Art Monk isn't a HoF, but James Lofton is. When did James Lofton win a chip? Countless times I've come on this site and seen spineless chit chat about how the nah sayers are right....*uck them. Recently I've read about how bad our team is at drafting, yet SI gives us high marks for 1981, and if you look we've done well in later rounds in securing talent like Smoot, and Dockery. However there will be some fake bandwagon skins fan saying "Dan doesn't know what he's doing". Well I have some news for you, Dan is a hell of an owner. Gibbs is a great coach, and maybe we will start winning. Me I like to tell people that tell me my teams sucks, call me Patrick Roy, because like him I can't hear all the bs with two rings in my ears. Ok I'm out of time, Illl rant more tommorow.

its three out of five superbowls. Also, its ascertain.......and in the wrong context. Its better not to try to sound smart.

[stwasm]

Okay, you got me on the three coaches in eight years part. But, you can't argue that the franchises that have had the most stability also have had the most success. Since Snyder has taken over, there's been little to no stability with this ball club. Not coincidently, we're 41-55 during that time.

As for my "assumptions" about Snyder, do you see other owners, other than Jerry Jones, constantly meddling in on-field affairs that should be determined by coach and GM? Snyder is at the combine. Snyder is meeting with players. Snyder is speaking to the press about our draft selections as if he's the expert on it all. Jack Kent Cooke never did that. Edward Bennett Williams never did that. I don't trust the man and his track record gives me reason not to trust him.

As for free agency, we rely WAAAAY too much on it, sacrificing talent we can find and groom in the draft in the process. I agree that you have to fill holes with experienced players. But, too often we're filling holes and roster spots with "big-named" stars instead of really and truly studying players to ensure that they'll fit in our system -- whatever it might be during a given year.

As for New England's shopping spree, they can back that up three recent Super Bowl titles and a bright personnel man who has a stellar record as a talent evaluator.

Look, I want the Redskins to win just as much as you do. But, the administration's current set-up doesn't give the team the best chance for success. I'm sorry, but the emperor is not wearing any clothes.

[ttr77]

Like the previous owner with Norv?

Yeah man, great comparison. I hated Norv as a coach as much as the next person, but he inherited a horrible, aging team and did show signs of growth during his time here, except for 1998 (which I think we all can agree was a year of turmoil while the league was trying to find the next owner).

1994 - 3-13-0

1995 - 6-10-0

1996 - 9-7-0

1997 - 8-7-1

1998 - 6-10-0

Since Norv was fired:

2001 - 8-8-0

2002 - 7-9-0

2003 - 5-11-0

2004 - 6-10-0

2005 - 10-6-0

2006 - 5-11-0

Where is the sign of growth there? Looks to me like they are backtracking...

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

as much as i hate adam schefter, he said something so true the other day on nfl network. when ditka traded us his entire draft in 2000, we seriously at that point had 2 full drafts in one year at our finger tips. schefter said he couldnt believe that the redskins didnt use that draft to build a championship team. can you imagine if we'd actually used those picks to build a team. if our organization valued the draft at all we could have built something special. its not every year or every decade a team gets 2 full drafts in one year.

[Aston]

as much as i hate adam schefter, he said something so true the other day on nfl network. when ditka traded us his entire draft in 2000, we seriously at that point had 2 full drafts in one year at our finger tips. schefter said he couldnt believe that the redskins didnt use that draft to build a championship team. can you imagine if we'd actually used those picks to build a team. if our organization valued the draft at all we could have built something special. its not every year or every decade a team gets 2 full drafts in one year.

Hang tight. If the CJ fans get their way, Detriot might in 2008.

[jimster]

Okay, you got me on the three coaches in eight years part. But, you can't argue that the franchises that have had the most stability also have had the most success. Since Snyder has taken over, there's been little to no stability with this ball club. Not coincidently, we're 41-55 during that time.

As for my "assumptions" about Snyder, do you see other owners, other than Jerry Jones, constantly meddling in on-field affairs that should be determined by coach and GM? Snyder is at the combine. Snyder is meeting with players. Snyder is speaking to the press about our draft selections as if he's the expert on it all. Jack Kent Cooke never did that. Edward Bennett Williams never did that. I don't trust the man and his track record gives me reason not to trust him.

As for free agency, we rely WAAAAY too much on it, sacrificing talent we can find and groom in the draft in the process. I agree that you have to fill holes with experienced players. But, too often we're filling holes and roster spots with "big-named" stars instead of really and truly studying players to ensure that they'll fit in our system -- whatever it might be during a given year.

As for New England's shopping spree, they can back that up three recent Super Bowl titles and a bright personnel man who has a stellar record as a talent evaluator.

Look, I want the Redskins to win just as much as you do. But, the administration's current set-up doesn't give the team the best chance for success. I'm sorry, but the emperor is not wearing any clothes.

Gotcha :thumbsup: - Like I said, I'd like to see a GM here too. Perhaps Gibbs can talk him into it when he retires. But Snyder seems like the type who will always be involved in the big stuff to a degree. Heck, I would too if I owned the team. - To get back to the original vein of this thread - I don't think things are as bad as some make them out to be, and for all we know could be a lot better than we imagine. - Gibbs has done some head-scratchers, personel-wise back in the day, but I never worried about it because I knew he had a plan. And they usually worked out. As the guy in charge, I have more faith in his plan then the coaches that have been here since he left the first time.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Hang tight. If the CJ fans get their way, Detriot might in 2008.

its amazing how so many people on here have bought into this teams philosophy about free agents vs the draft. weve proven you cant field a consistent or even great team with FAs at your core. its really sad.

[Cliffmark1]

The redskins are one of those teams that are good every 20-30 years. Hopefully the time is coming for us to be good again.

Although we have won 3 SB and 2 NFL Championships, there are great gaps in our "great" seasons. 3 Championships have been won under one coach, Joe Gibbs. IF anything we should problably be thankful that we have the man who took us to greatness back on our team and someone who Snyder actually respects and listens to at the helm.

[TheDane]

If anything, Redskins fans are soft because of people like OP, who are so cowardly as to get angry towards negative opinion.

Sack up, nancy boy. **** ain't always roses and pie.

[skinsn24]

Washington - 3rd in 8 years

16 teams have had 3 or more coaches in the last eight years

11 have had 2

5 teams have had the same coach for more than eight years.

Great work and a very valid point on large turnover in the NFL, but the large turnover is usually on the horrible teams. A place i dont want to be.

The Pats only have 1 coach i can think of

Only 2 for Indy

2 for Green Bay (who yes were good for a while under sherm)

Ravens-1 coach

Iggles-1 Coach

Denver- 1 coach

SD-Now onto there second coach (which is a joke)

Pittsberg-onto there 3 coach ever

If we want to be good, we need a long term coach. The norm in the NFL is to be bad, i want to be above that norm.

Also Washington has had more than 3 coaches in 8 years. 8 season would bring us back tot he 99 season, or the 2000 season if you are counting this upcoming season.

Coaches since 2000:

Norv

Terry

Marty

Steve

Joe

I beleive that makes 5 different head coaches in 8 years.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

The redskins are one of those teams that are good every 20-30 years. Hopefully the time is coming for us to be good again.

Although we have won 3 SB and 2 NFL Championships, there are great gaps in our "great" seasons. 3 Championships have been won under one coach, Joe Gibbs. IF anything we should problably be thankful that we have the man who took us to greatness back on our team and someone who Snyder actually respects and listens to at the helm.

ill be thankful when we accomplish something great, and so far thats been nothing.

[Redshu]

LOL, generation IPOD, i havent heard that before. Not bad though

I just go to college, sleep all day, and read the text books, teachers try to put their propganda in my ear, but certain text books teach me things. Anyway, thanks for the compliment, but remember 20 years olds (im just about 21) are pretty smart people, only a year away from college graduation in most cases. I think we get hated on this board a little because of our age.

Back on topic though, people who say "whether we are good or bad, im still on the bandwagon"...same here, i am just willing to express my discontent with the failure, i will never stop rooting for this team, but i wont stop complaining either, untill we start winning again of course.:2cents:

Nah bro, noone hates because of age. Its just we were all you once upon a time, and as we've aged we've realized that at 20 we didn't know as much as we thought.

Its the same thing I would get if I talked to a 40 or 50 year old about life. Theres no substitute for life experience.

[skinsn24]

its amazing how so many people on here have bought into this teams philosophy about free agents vs the draft. weve proven you cant field a consistent or even great team with FAs at your core. its really sad.

Yep, the build young talant through the draft, plain and simple. Some just dont get it.

Its funny too, who do people love on this team?

Taylor?

Cooley?

Jansen?

Samuels?

and everyone is happy to see smoot back (who we drafted), so why do they dont understand we could have many more of those players if we used the draft.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Yep, the build young talant through the draft, plain and simple. Some just dont get it.

Its funny too, who do people love on this team?

Taylor?

Cooley?

Jansen?

Samuels?

and everyone is happy to see smoot back (who we drafted), so why do they dont understand we could have many more of those players if we used the draft.

whats even more ironic is that when we DO draft, over the past few years weve actually drafted some good players, imagine if we had a whole draft? its actually a foreign concept to me to watch us pick in every round. i dont think weve had a full draft in 5 years?