Pit Bull Killer?

[Koolblue13]

Between my roomate and I, we have three dogs. My Akita, the abandoned Pit I take care of and my friends Pit Blue. We live on 88 acres and the dogs are usually allowed to run around the yard and woods. Sometimes they go over to the nieghbors yards and play with thier dogs, and visa versa. They are extremly friendly, great with the little kids that are around, cats we have and whatever.

Blue was origanally adopted from a shelter who got him because he refused to be a fighter. We was just very docile and obedient. The notes on his vet papers said no mussel needed, extremely friendly and easy with the kisses. He was scared of load noises and would run and hide if you clapped your hands to loud. Lucy was dumped on me by an old roomate and she was just to loveable and friendly to get rid of her anywhere other then the perfect home. Mama, my big fat Akita was saved from a family who lost thier home and had to move. Because of her age and breed, she would have been put down about 12 hours after I picked her up. I live in a house with 4 roomates and a lot of friends who stop in and out all the time. Kids ride bikes and quads in our yard and in the woods and nieghbors dogs come over to play with our dogs.

Saturday afternoon, Lucy(the little mutt pitt) and Blue went on a hike down to the local farm( there are a lot around me), well, I guess they were no strangers around there and the farmer didn't care for them. Supposedly, they were hanging off the neck of his steer and viciouslly attacking it. When the farmer ran over to beat Blue off of the steer, he turned on the farmer. The farmers next door nieghbor happenes to be an off duty stat trooper with his hand gun and unloaded into Blue and scaring off Lucy.

The aspca called while we were in the woods lookin for Blue and said he'd been shot and killed and asked us to go to the shelter. The first thing they said to us as we walked in was" if this is your dog, you should sue the cop". As it turns out, the dogs had been going down there and playin around on his farm and he had enough. He never called the pound to get them and niether had the officer.They said there was a very small scratch on the steer that looked more like a mark from the fence then a vicious dog attack. We didn't think much of what they were saying at the time, just wanted to get Blue home and in the ground.

The farmer had left his phone number for my friend to call and apoligize and give him info on shots for the dog, if he had rabbie shots. He called and first apoligized to the farmer and explained he was up to date on shots. He then said the dog was a good dog and never attacked anything before and apoligized again. The farmer began to yell over the farm about "why he would call" and threatened a restraining order to stop the harrasment.(?). So my friend hung up the phone and threw the number away. He just wanted this to be over, but something seemed fishy.

Because of the threat and personal questions about why this thing went the way it did, we went to the police station to request a copy of the official report. After the officer at the front desk denied knowing anything about this, he then asked where the other dangerous dog was and told us our nieghbors had been calling all day worried about a "pack of man eating dogs". I know my nieghbors, they called and asked about the loon shooting nieghborhood dogs with licenses and tags on thier collars and if thier dogs are safe from this man. I know this because they all came over for a funeral of sorts last night.

The first officer walked into the back and out came the chief. He began to lecture and yell at my friend and I as if we were training fight dogs at our house. Now, the cops are a little familiar with us because of our occasional parties and the demolition derby halloween party I threw last year, but have always been cool since we don't break the law. They told us we had no right to the report because it wasn't our property or our business. Explained that you don't let "nile crocadiles" roam free in the nieghborhood. Told us we are delinquents and dangerous( tattoos and hot rods) and we should be lucky we don't get arested right now for manslaughter because the farmer might have a bite on his hand. I asked if he did and if that was in the report and he said it could be. My poor friend, lost his dog and trying to find out the official story and he just gets a lecture and threatened with being arrested. He read most of the report and it differed in a lot of ways to the other stories w have been hearing, so that didn't help either.

Now we have the Vet, who tryed to see the wounds on the steer to help it at no expense saying we should do something. We have the aspca almost begging to help us, the woman from the shellter he came from asking us to do something. Our nieghbors are as well and so are a lot of our friends. My friend just wants to let it go, because it's not going to get his dog out of the hole in the back yard, but he is a little worried. After being threatened with Manslaughter and harrasment charges, he is wondering if he should atleast cover his back, legally. Going after the NJ state police isn't the best idea for a bunch of good ole boys, but what if....

They also told us if the other dog,Lucy, was see, she would be viewed as dangerous and would be killed on site. We are now looking for a new home for her, because sometimes, dogs just get out. Feelin a little lost right now and figured I'de get some of ya'lls opionions. Thanks for letting me vent.

[Prosperity]

Damn if you can afford it then get a lawyer, even if only to piss them off

[SkinInsite]

If you can shoot people for trespassing then why not a dog.

[jbooma]

just leash up the dogs, so you don't have to worry about it

[Bang]

If you can shoot people for trespassing then why not a dog.

Well, you can't shoot people for just being on your land.. if they're in your house, you can shoot them.

As bad as it is for you, the simple answer for the future is to not let your dogs roam. If you've got 88 acres, there's no reason for the dogs to be on your neighbor's farm.

Pits carry a well deserved bad reputation. You especially don't let them wander if for no other reason that to avoid a misunderstanding that could lead to something like this.

If you feel you have a case to sue the cop, do it. But if your dog was on your land, you wouldn't have to even worry about it.

~Bang

[Koolblue13]

Well, you can't shoot people for just being on your land.. if they're in your house, you can shoot them.

As bad as it is for you, the simple answer for the future is to not let your dogs roam. If you've got 88 acres, there's no reason for the dogs to be on your neighbor's farm.

Pits carry a well deserved bad reputation. You especially don't let them wander if for no other reason that to avoid a misunderstanding that could lead to something like this.

If you feel you have a case to sue the cop, do it. But if your dog was on your land, you wouldn't have to even worry about it.

~Bang

I know. I picked up a kennel today. Mama, the big fat Akita doesn't get of the couch let alone wonder,so I don't worry about her. We had taken Lucy down to the No Kill shelter to see if they could help us find her a new home. She is a great dog, but since she got ditched by her owner, she is a little lost. The Kennel now understands whats going on and called us. They will take her and might have a new home for her already.

We have a lot of traffic in and out of the house, so even if we do try and keep the dogs leeshed, sometimes they do get out. I have been chaining up Blue and Lucy for 2 weeks now. I had gotten them a run and they just got loose. I would rather not bring the law down on us either. My friend just feels like he needs to know exactly what happened so he can have closure. It was his best friend ya know.

[jwpanic]

sorry to hear about your friend's dog. unfortunately for you and your friend, pit bulls just have a bad reputation. nyc city council is actually pushing legislation that would ban pit bulls in the city. a lot of people are against the proposed law (myself included), but two people were attacked in my neighborhood in brooklyn on saturday by a pregnant pit bull and now the law has a legimitate shot at being passed.

[Warpath81]

If you can shoot people for trespassing then why not a dog.

I dunno, but I can tell you that a relative of mine had a dog in his house (garage) and it showed it's teeth and he shot it in the a** w/ a BB gun (the BB didn't penetrate the dogs skin). All was well until he called the SPCA, told them about the dog and then told them what he had done. The SPCA then called the cops and he was arrested and forced to take anger management classes. This is in Maryland....

[DCSaints_fan]

Dogs should not be allowed to "run free" except on private property and designated dog parks. Not sure where you are but I believe every state has a law regarding this. Regardless of the law I would prefer not to let people make judgement calls about whether their dogs are dangerous or not. I know you think your pit might be the friendliest dog in the world. But the bottom line is, its still an animal and you have no idea whats going to set it off. Besides the human danger some people keep pets like rabbits that dogs go after, even though they might be friendly. I know that pits are no more likely to be violent than any other dog given the same conditioning, but the thing with pits is that when they do go rabid they can they are so much more dangerous due to their incredible jaw strength. I'm not saying that the farmer was right to shoot your dogs, but that doesn't mean its OK to let them run around.

[Huly]

This might help some:

PA Dog laws:

http://www.agriculture.state.pa.us/agriculture/cwp/view.asp?q=126843

The Bureau of Dog Law is charged with the following responsibilities:

Enforcing licensing and control of dogs

Enforcing kennel licensing and inspections

Investigating dog bites

Seizing and detaining any dog seen running at large

Reimbursing individuals for dog-caused damage to livestock, poultry and domestic game birds

Establishing and enforcing the quarantine of dogs in certain areas when required

Funding counties and humane organizations to establish dog control facilities

Providing educational services concerning dog ownership in Pennsylvania

Enforcing the Pennsylvania Rabies Law

What are Pennsylvania’s Dog Laws?

All dogs three months of age or older must be licensed. Licenses are issued by the County Treasurer

All dogs must be under control and must not be allowed to run at large. Dogs are personal property, and owners are responsible for damages caused their dog.

It is illegal to mistreat or abuse any animal. Violations should be reported to a local humane organization or the police.

It is illegal to abandon or attempt to abandon any dog.

No dog under seven weeks of age may be sold, traded, bartered or transferred.

You may not place any poison or harmful substance in any place where dogs may easily eat it, whether it is your own property or elsewhere.

You must have a current kennel license if you operate a facility that keeps, harbors, boards, shelters, sells, gives away or transfers a total of 26 or more dogs in any one calendar year.

Owners of dogs and cats 3 months of age or older are required to have a current rabies vaccination. It is illegal to interfere with an officer or employee of the Pennsylvania Department of Agriculture engaged in enforcement of dog laws.

Animal Law Lawyer in PA

http://www.nabr.org/AnimalLaw/Bars/StateBars.htm

Pennsylvania

Pennsylvania Bar Animal Law Committee

Contact: Gordon Einhorn

Pitt Forum

http://pitbullforum.com/viewtopic.php?p=842940&sid=5ce728fd6e0be27cb14fb542ba6303f1

Warren, PA+Police shoot pitbull+owner writes response

Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 11:48 am Post subject: Warren, PA+Police shoot pitbull+owner writes response

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My mom lives here and told me about this. I lived in Warren for years and consider it home. I read this and then she called me today with the dog owner's response to this incident.. It just doesn't add up

http://timesobserver.com/articles.asp?articleID=4312

City police shoot dog after attacks

By DEAN WELLS, Staff Writer

4/6/2007 - Warren City police shot and killed a pit bull that attacked three children on Water Street on Wednesday afternoon.

According to police, the children were walking home from school when the dog charged them after escaping confinement at 414 Water St. Two of the children were bitten; the third was charged by the dog and pinned up against a tree.

Sgt. Brandon Deppen, who was called to the scene, said it wasn’t clear how the dog escaped the house.

“It somehow got the door open or the door was left open,” he said.

The dog’s owners weren’t home at the time of the attacks, according to police.

Police received the report that a dog had bitten a child outside of the Water Sreet. residence at approximately 3:25 p.m. Wednesday.

According to a witness, Deppen said, the pit bull charged out of the door and bit the child on the arm and leg. A second child was bitten when she came to her aid, police said.

According to police, neither child was bitten seriously.

The third child was walking alone when she was charged by the dog.

“When we got to the scene, the dog was on the porch at the time,” Deppen said. “We called for the Humane Society to come up. They arrived shortly after that.”

Deppen said that Humane Society director Karen Kolos attempted to bait the dog with canned meat and snare it. The dog, a three-year-old male, wouldn’t take the bait.

“It actually charged her at the time,” Deppen said. “She fended it off with the catch pole.”

Kolos tried baiting the dog a second time after it returned to the porch.

“It didn’t want anything to do with it,” Deppen said.

He said Kolos attempted to snare the dog a third time while using the porch railing as protection. The pit bull charged Deppen and another police officer while Kolos tried snaring it.

“That’s when we put it down,” Deppen said. “We tried quite a while to snare it. With what it had already done, it had to be put down.”

“That’s the first time this has happened in years,” Lt. Jim Jordan, interim police chief, said of the shooting. “We try to resolve it any other way we can. I can’t even recall the last time we had to shoot (a dog).”

Jordan said that the state’s Bureau of Dog Law Enforcement is conducting an investigation into the attacks. He confirmed there are charges pending against the dog’s owners.

Regional Dog Law Enforcement Officer Amy Tiger was unavailable to discuss the investigation process.

From the owner:

http://timesobserver.com/letters/articles.asp?articleID=4365

Pit bull

4/11/2007 - Dear Editor: I am the owner of the pit bull and I think the cops need to investigate it more.

What the cops told me when I talked to them at the cop station compared to what they put in the paper doesn’t even match.

My neighbors came over Wednesday and told me that my dog (Dope) was chased for five minutes with his tail and head down, then he started down the steps to get away and the cops shot at him five times.

Three times they hit him, two other ones missed. I have a 22-month-old child named Hope. The cops told us that there was pretty much nothing they could do and that they had to put our dog down. For such a vicious dog as the cops say, anyone who knew Dope knew that he was a very good dog.

I would also like the cops to tell me why such a vicious dog was a best friend to our 22-month-old daughter. She would pull on his ears and try to ride on him and not a single growl would come out of him. One of the Warren police officers told us that our dog got our door open on his own by ramming it so hard that it flew open. Well, our door opens inward, not outward. We believe someone had to have opened it. We don’t know who or why, but we will find out.

Our dog was shot at five times and hit three times. One hit him in the hind legs, one in the neck and the last in the head. I have just one question for the Humane Society. You are supposed to be humane right? When they hit him right there in the back legs (back quarters) why was it that you could not contain him right there on the spot without any further shots fired?

When we got home there was a note on my door to call the Humane Society, a bullet hole in our house and a puddle of blood on the sidewalk where our 22-month-old daughter could see it. We talked to many neighbors about what had happened and every single one said they did not see him bite anyone and that he was just trying to get away because he was so scared.

Dope was part of this family and our daughters best friend. This letter doesn’t even come close to how upset and sad our family is over this entire ordeal. We just wanted to get our side out there so everyone would know our side and maybe see how we feel.

Farmer shoots dog

http://local.lancasteronline.com/4/15341

Farmer will stand trial for shooting dog

By Justin Quinn, Intelligencer Journal Staff

Intelligencer Journal

Published: Jun 30, 2005 9:21 AM EST

LANCASTER COUNTY, PA - A 24-year-old West Earl Township farmer will stand trial for killing his neighbor’s dog to prevent it from chasing the cows on his farm.

More Animal Law

http://www.animallaw.info/articles/dduspoliceshootingpets.htm

NOTE: This website has cases etc! Lots of Good Info!

[Koolblue13]

Thanks Huly. That is good info. I am pretty sure what happened is the dogs had been going down there and chasin livestock. The farmer got pissed and called his nieghbor. An off duty NJ statey and he came over and shot him. If they would have called the pound a while ago, it would have ended and the dogs wouldn't have been back.

We do usually keep the dogs tied up. If we go in the woods 4 wheelin or work around the yard, they are allowed to be off leash. They usually stay fairly close to home and if they do roam, the nieghborhood is very dog friendly and will call if there is a problem.

We have a horse farm next door and the dogs don't even go over there, why would they go over a mile just to attack a full grown steer? it sucks. Last night almost a hundred people showed up or called to give support, kind of amazing for such a "dangerous" dog.

[Huly]

More info;

http://www.post-gazette.com/regionstate/19990307dogs6.asp

Killing of dogs argued; Humane Society wants better police training

Sunday, March 07, 1999

By Tom Gibb, Post-Gazette Staff Writer

JOHNSTOWN - The videotape shows a police officer edging across the front porch of the house, his gaze frozen on about 40 pounds of skittish pit bull tethered to the porch rail if front of him.

Somebody tied the animal to the porch rail - police don't know why - trapping frightened Denise Huddleston inside her house. So, it is the officer's job to capture the dog, a mission he handles like a man creeping forward to defuse a bomb.

The officer's tool is a catch pole, a four-foot stick with a loop about big enough to squeeze a football through.

He loops the dog's neck, tightens the noose and, once the animal is unleashed from the porch rail, slowly leads it down to the sidewalk - the animal somewhere between bewildered and agitated, the officer using the pole to keep the pit bull out of biting distance.

It works. But the plan ends there. The back-and-forth among police officers shows confusion about what to do next. The episode is about to roll out of control.

"Now what are we going to do with him?"

"Dog car here?

"You can't put him in a city car."

An officer sprays the dog with pepper spray. The pit bull lurches onto its side and yelps. And there, on a city street in an old Johnstown neighborhood, an officer pulls his gun and kills the dog with two shots.

On another day, it might have bred nothing more than neighborhood talk and an unnoticed entry in the city police log. But on that day, Feb. 25, a reporter and cameraman from Johnstown station WJAC-TV heard the police radio call about a threatening dog and showed up to catch the episode on videotape.

The station aired two minutes of unedited tape, stopping a blink short of the shooting - enough to fire up a high-profile local controversy.

"I've never had the number of calls that this story generated," Mark Carros, WJAC-TV news director said.

The Cambria County Humane Society filed a civil complaint Wednesday, with District Justice Michael Musulin in Johnstown, charging the city killed the dog because the city failed to train and equip its officers to handle animals. The Humane Society wants the city fined.

The Humane Society's director and a state dog law officer said after watching the videotape that police overreacted to what should have been a routine corralling of a dog.

And Johnstown's city manager says city police are being unfairly trampled by critics who watched 10 minutes videotape but never saw the preceding 50 minutes, where the dog menaced police officers as they waited in vain for a state dog law officer to show up and take control.

"The officer must have seen some degree of aggression and used his weapon," city Manager Karl Kilduff said. "At the time, the officer said he felt it presented enough of a danger."

"They killed a dog unnecessarily," said D Black, Humane Society director. "This was not an aggressive dog. I'm not a large woman, I handled much larger dogs at the end of catch poles by myself, and I was never in a situation where I couldn't control one."

"I've picked up thousands of dogs in my career," said Theodore Hoover, a state Agriculture Department dog law officer covering Cambria County. "I never had to shoot one yet, and I've had some nasty ones."

Johnstown has no active animal control officers on its 43-person police force because the city contracted that job to the Humane Society until the end of December. But that agreement ended with the cash-strapped city and the Humane Society clashing over bills that Kilduff said drove animal control more than $4,000 over its $15,000 budget.

Ultimately, Johnstown will likely train its own animal control officers and, in the meantime, hunt another animal protection agency to do the job, Kilduff said.

For now, Johnstown will answer calls with officers who aren't in the animal control business. And the call they answered Feb. 25 was a mystery - an unlicensed dog that nobody could identify, leashed to the porch rail in what Kilduff said was a malicious attempt to keep Huddleston in her house.

Officers called for Hoover. But Hoover said he knew nothing until he checked his answering machine almost an hour after the dog was shot.

"We tried to do this to the best of our ability," Kilduff said. "The television cameras were not witness to the aggressive behavior of the animal from the get-go." But Black and Hoover say officers sparked the dog's final show of aggression.

"What I saw [on the videotape] was a dog that was calmed," Hoover said. "The police department using pepper spray on the dog when they did would be like me using it on you when you're calm. You'd be ready to tear me apart."

http://tarlton.law.utexas.edu/dawson/cruelty/pa_cruel.htm

PA Cruelty Laws

PENNSYLVANIA STATUTES

TITLE 3. AGRICULTURE

CHAPTER 7. DOMESTIC ANIMALS

IN GENERAL

DESTRUCTION OF INJURED, ETC., ANIMALS

http://www.planetark.com/avantgo/dailynewsstory.cfm?newsid=1250

PA. TROOPERS MAY BE CHARGED OVER DOG DEATHS AT FIRE

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PITTSBURGH - Three Pennsylvania state troopers may face criminal charges after shooting five Rottweiler dogs which were allegedly blocking firefighters from entering a burning trailer home, a humane society official early this week.

A state police spokesman said the troopers had to shoot the dogs because they were a threat to firefighters, who thought the owner was trapped inside the trailer.

Lisa Weir, director and police officer of the Indiana County Humane Society, said she was considering filing criminal charges of animal cruelty. "They could have used other methods rather than kill the dogs," she said.

The fire occurred on Monday inside a trailer home whose owner was not there at the time, although his vehicle was parked outside.

Fire Chief Mark Riva said the burning trailer was surrounded by a fence, with five Rottweilers inside the fence. The dogs would not allow anyone into the yard, he said.

"I was worried that someone was inside, but the dogs were running up and down the fence, barking and jumping," he said. Riva contacted police and three troopers arrived, using shotguns to kill the dogs.

Lt. Richard Lingenfelter, state police spokesman, said the shooting was justified. "The vehicle was outside. We thought the owner was inside...the firefighters could not conduct a rescue effort because the dogs were being territorial, which is their instinct, and acting aggressively.

"The troopers feel terrible about this. But we thought we had to save a human being."

[TradeTheBeal!]

Maybe you should get a breed of dog that hasn't been bred to fight and kill for hundreds of years.

[Koolblue13]

I don't know how people can be so cold hearted towards a dog or so fearful and uninformed about them. I could see if you live in the city, but I'm out in the country and people know better.

[Koolblue13]

Maybe you should get a breed of dog that hasn't been bred to fight and kill for hundreds of years.

Like my Akita that doesn't have a mean bone in her body. I understand breeing, but it's all in the envirnment and upbringing of the animal.

[TradeTheBeal!]

Like my Akita that doesn't have a mean bone in her body. I understand breeing, but it's all in the envirnment and upbringing of the animal.

I respectfully disagree.

[Huly]

I do not want to get into another Pitt Bulls are a bad breed thread. We have had way too many of those and they annoy me.

Mboyd you need to understand a breed before you get one and Pitts are not the right dog for everyone but for some people they are a great pet.

This thread is for if a cop has the right to shoot someone's pet (no matter what breed).

[Koolblue13]

I respectfully disagree.

Respectfully? I put up a thread about how my roomates dog, that I live with and help care for and is a good friend of mine as well, gets murdered and I get shoulda picked a better breed or shoulda tied them up better. Thats a load of bull.

[More Complete]

I understand breeing, but it's all in the envirnment and upbringing of the animal.

True, but you are not going to change the prejudice of those living around you.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Example: A Lab runs into neighbor's yard...

Neighbor: "Hey honey there is a dog in our yard. Do you know who it belongs to?"

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Example: A Pit-bull runs into neighbor's yard

Neighbor: "Kids, don't go outside. Honey, call animal control."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Is it fair? Maybe not. However, that's the way it is. If you are going to own a dog with a violent reputation you need to be prepared to deal with it. Going around talking about how unfair it is isn't going to help.

[macnoke03]

I do not want to get into another Pitt Bulls are a bad breed thread. We have had way too many of those and they annoy me.

Mboyd you need to understand a breed before you get one and Pitts are not the right dog for everyone but for some people they are a great pet.

This thread is for if a cop has the right to shoot someone's pet (no matter what breed).

As a pit owner I say :applause: to this post

[Koolblue13]

If they would have called animal control, my friend Blue would still be alive. I understand how a Pitt scares people and the reputation they have. These two dogs are known in my nieghborhood and known to be friendly. This farmer even said he new who Lucy was. So why, if you know the dogs or could call animal control, kill them and threatin the other one?

[More Complete]

This farmer even said he new who Lucy was. So why, if you know the dogs or could call animal control, kill them and threatin the other one?

A. The dog really was threatening his livestock or himself.

B. He perceived a threat even though there may not have been one.

C. He is an ass.

[SkinInsite]

If they would have called animal control, my friend Blue would still be alive. I understand how a Pitt scares people and the reputation they have. These two dogs are known in my nieghborhood and known to be friendly. This farmer even said he new who Lucy was. So why, if you know the dogs or could call animal control, kill them and threatin the other one?

Were there bite marks on the guy? If there is then the cop had every right to shoot the dog.

[Huly]

A. The dog really was threatening his livestock or himself.

B. He perceived a threat even though there may not have been one.

C. He is an ass.

I vote C

I have seen way too much of these kinds of situations. :mad:

[The 12th Commandment]

I vote C

I have seen way too much of these kinds of situations. :mad:

I would respectfully say that the thread starter has that one sown up. He put his animal in a situation where it could get harmed and it did. The responisbility is with the owner to not let your dog run loose. If you do, then man up and accept the responsibility for the results.

I don't mean to sound too harsh. If someone shot my dog, I would be po'd too. And I would try to rationlize my part of the situation as well. But the hard facts remain - If you wouldn't have let your dog run loose he would be fine.