Gibbs at GT pro day

[Seabee1973]

The only way you take best player available is if you are one of the top 5 teams and have no glaring weakness or you are one of the bottom 5 and have a weakness at every position. if we started drafting smarter this team has the pieces in place and young enough pieces to make a serous run for a few years.

im hoping with the rotation we have at DT right now we can grab a good run stuffing sack the qb 10 tiumes a season DE and then next year adress the dt more when the older vets start retiring or get cut

[Bliz]

for every Randy Moss, there's a Charles Rogers, Mike Williams, Koren Robinson et al. these guys were also dubbed "biggest talent @ WR in decades" when they came out. even when drafting VERY high its still a gamble. that's why we need to draft where we NEED help (DL). how would we feel a year from now if we wasted this pick on a position we did not need, and the guy turned out to be a bust?

if we draft a DL, and he turns out to be a bust, we can at least say we made the smart pick at the time.

How would you feel if we stayed at 6, picked someone else, and he turned out to be an absolute stud? It's hilarious...reading most of the posters here, it seems like y'all think there's about 95% chance bust, 5% chance lives up to expectations.

Let me sum it up for everyone on all sides: Yes, nothing is a sure thing, but this kid damn sure looks like it: Excellent size, excellent hands, excellent vertical, excellent character, good speed, questionable whether he can get off a jam and still do something. You can't say that just because some other wr's have turned out to be busts, he will too. You have to go based on what you have - game film and workout. Based on those, every team in the league has him rated as the best player in the draft. If he's there at 6, and we use the pick, it has to be on him. Otherwise we have been incredibly stupid because there's too much value in it. Angry about the idea of drafting him if he's there when you think there are other areas of need? Angry about the idea of letting him go to someone else when we have the opportunity to take him? In Joe we trust. End of story.

Except the bucs will absolutely take him if he's there, so this whole thread is worthless. We will all be very sad when see him lining up across from Carlos Rogers next year

[Bliz]

I dont even understand why we would be at his proday, I hope that this is to scare some teams that sit behind us. On draft day if CJ is still on the board at 6 and some other teams might be scared that we would take him and would sell the barn to get him. We have Santana, Randle el, Cooley, and Lloyd. Our receivers are fine. We need D help. I wouldn't even mind if the FO suprises everyone and drafts LaRon Landry. (that is why we were at LSU proday, not for Jamarcus)

Well, remember also that he's working out with all of his teammates. We could be there partly to see the show, and partly to evaluate one of his lesser-known teammates for the 2nd day.

[dfbovey]

What will set this guy apart from everyone else in this league is his work ethic. He will focus and work hard to improve his already amazing skills.

He's the one and only player I would take regardless of need.

He's the one guy that you'd look back on in this draft, and kick yourself later if you had the chance to pick him, and didn't.

Having said that, it would take 5 really idiotic front offices picking before us to even have the opportunity to draft him. It's not going to happen.

[darrell1106]

I CRINGE everytime I here the words "trade up." We are at #6 and we have very little to offer a team like Tampa Bay. I think we'll eventually trade down and grab a few DT/DEs and possibly another DB.

I haven't read all the responses in this thread but how does CJ compare w/ previous players at his position at the combine? I remember Deion having ridiculous numbers but who else may come close at his size; 6'5" 239?

[darrell1106]

What will set this guy apart from everyone else in this league is his work ethic. He will focus and work hard to improve his already amazing skills.

He's the one and only player I would take regardless of need.

He's the one guy that you'd look back on in this draft, and kick yourself later if you had the chance to pick him, and didn't.

Having said that, it would take 5 really idiotic front offices picking before us to even have the opportunity to draft him. It's not going to happen.

How do you know this? You guys related?

[jrockster21]

No way Millen can resist him at #2 with his WR fettish and all. :laugh:

It is sort of ironic that Millen took 3 WRs in the first round in a row, and if he took another one, would probably lose his job. However this is the one WR he SHOULD take no matter what.

[Commander Adama]

No way Millen can resist him at #2 with his WR fettish and all. :laugh:

It is sort of ironic that Millen took 3 WRs in the first round in a row, and if he took another one, would probably lose his job. However this is the one WR he SHOULD take no matter what.

Are you joking? Millen seems like he can do anything he wanted and still keep his job! I am just thankful we don't have Millen here!

[darrell1106]

Are you joking? Millen seems like he can do anything he wanted and still keep his job! I am just thankful we don't have Millen here!

Says who? I think we may have a distant cousin:2cents: :doh:

[Bliz]

How do you know this? You guys related?

His work ethic and character have been widely reported on. You can add something constructive to the thread without being an a******

[darrell1106]

His work ethic and character have been widely reported on. You can add something constructive to the thread without being an a******

We have over $100 million tied up into one position and you are considerig offering our future picks, or lack there of, for a guy that will still be a rookie in Sept '07 playing in a game that is 1 1/2 times faster than he's use to.

Can he play both sides of the ball? I think ST is about 239 so can he play FS? Go back and look at 8 out of those 11 losses last year, at least, and tell me if WR is our need? Look at the average age of our defense? Can you honestly say this guy is so special that you toss all of that evidene out for a WR.

BTW..We have to get the ball to him b4 he can do anything and the last time I checked we have no starting LG for a right handed QB? So please enlighten me on why we need this guy?:2cents:

[darrell1106]

His work ethic and character have been widely reported on. You can add something constructive to the thread without being an a******

Ryan Leaf had a stron work ethic and a good pro day workout. So did Jeff Geogre:doh:

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

How would you feel if we stayed at 6, picked someone else, and he turned out to be an absolute stud? It's hilarious...reading most of the posters here, it seems like y'all think there's about 95% chance bust, 5% chance lives up to expectations.

Let me sum it up for everyone on all sides: Yes, nothing is a sure thing, but this kid damn sure looks like it: Excellent size, excellent hands, excellent vertical, excellent character, good speed, questionable whether he can get off a jam and still do something. You can't say that just because some other wr's have turned out to be busts, he will too. You have to go based on what you have - game film and workout. Based on those, every team in the league has him rated as the best player in the draft. If he's there at 6, and we use the pick, it has to be on him. Otherwise we have been incredibly stupid because there's too much value in it. Angry about the idea of drafting him if he's there when you think there are other areas of need? Angry about the idea of letting him go to someone else when we have the opportunity to take him? In Joe we trust. End of story.

Except the bucs will absolutely take him if he's there, so this whole thread is worthless. We will all be very sad when see him lining up across from Carlos Rogers next year

or...........he could be lining up with Charles Rogers.

you obviously didn't understand my post.

[Troy Fakeman]

or...........he could be lining up with Charles Rogers.

you obviously didn't understand my post.

Do me a favor - recite the name Charles Rogers ONE MORE TIME...so I can blast you with the stats from his first 4 NFL games...before his injury.

I'm not a fan of Detroit...and I do not argue that Charles Rogers is this supreme Wide Receiver entity...but comparing Calvin Johnson to Charles Rogers positions you without any credibility. He scored 3 TDs...in his first FOUR NFL Games...before his injury. The draft pick by Detroit, at the time, seemed to be paying off, and they were already receiving a return on their investment. Their are busts at every position - and you keep using Charles Rogers...who, before his injury and substance abuse allegations, was looking like a Superstar.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/396176/gamelogs/2003

And just so you know...since you like comparing athletes via position...for every Alan Branch...their is a Kevin Williams...or Ryan Sims...and for every Gaines Adams...there is a Courtney Brown.

[bobzmuda]

Ryan Leaf had a stron work ethic and a good pro day workout. So did Jeff Geogre:doh:

Are you the proverbial monkey just randomly hitting keys or were you trying to make a point?

And just so you know...since you like comparing athletes via position...for every Alan Branch...their is a Kevin Williams...or Ryan Sims...and for every Gaines Adams...there is a Courtney Brown.

It's ridiculous how some folks think that in trying to evaluate whether a pick will be a bust or not that the position they play or whether a past player has busted has something to do with that evaluation.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Do me a favor - recite the name Charles Rogers ONE MORE TIME...so I can blast you with the stats from his first 4 NFL games...before his injury.

I'm not a fan of Detroit...and I do not argue that Charles Rogers is this supreme Wide Receiver entity...but comparing Calvin Johnson to Charles Rogers positions you without any credibility. He scored 3 TDs...in his first FOUR NFL Games...before his injury. The draft pick by Detroit, at the time, seemed to be paying off, and they were already receiving a return on their investment. Their are busts at every position - and you keep using Charles Rogers...who, before his injury and substance abuse allegations, was looking like a Superstar.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/396176/gamelogs/2003

And just so you know...since you like comparing athletes via position...for every Alan Branch...their is a Kevin Williams...or Ryan Sims...and for every Gaines Adams...there is a Courtney Brown.

cmon, he scored 2 of them in his first game against the worst defense in football that year. the dude had 240 yards in his first 5 games, hardly something to get excited about. and his substance abuse issues arent helping your case.

he should have used mike williams, who is more built like CJ, maybe CJ is built for disaster just like he was? haha who knows.

[BillyKilmer]

fret not, he will be long gone by the time the Skins are on the clock. But I agree wholeheartedly w/others here that if he is there @ the 6 spot, you have to draft the guy. Some team is going to be set for a long time w/this guy.

[Troy Fakeman]

cmon, he scored 2 of them in his first game against the worst defense in football that year. the dude had 240 yards in his first 5 games, hardly something to get excited about. and his substance abuse issues arent helping your case.

he should have used mike williams, who is more built like CJ, maybe CJ is built for disaster just like he was? haha who knows.

Charles Rogers...scored 3 TDs...in his first 4 NFL Games. Name 5 rookies in the past 10 years...that have done that...especially...with John Kitna or Josh McCown throwing the ball...

We can go all day on this...

[Bliz]

We have over $100 million tied up into one position and you are considerig offering our future picks, or lack there of, for a guy that will still be a rookie in Sept '07 playing in a game that is 1 1/2 times faster than he's use to.

Can he play both sides of the ball? I think ST is about 239 so can he play FS? Go back and look at 8 out of those 11 losses last year, at least, and tell me if WR is our need? Look at the average age of our defense? Can you honestly say this guy is so special that you toss all of that evidene out for a WR.

BTW..We have to get the ball to him b4 he can do anything and the last time I checked we have no starting LG for a right handed QB? So please enlighten me on why we need this guy?:2cents:

I think you're confusing me with someone else.

I have never advocated trading up for him. In other threads, I specifically went against it and still think it's a terrible idea. Trading up = no way.

And I never said we needed him either. I said he's the best player, and that if he's there at #6, and if we use the #6 pick, it has to be on him. Otherwise we are being incredibly stupid because there's too much value in the pick.

What I actually said was "In Joe we trust." People are angry about the idea of taking him or passing on him if he's there (which he won't be)...I'm saying, in Joe we trust. If he's there, which he won't be, I have faith that Coach will know what to do to maximize the quality of his team.

*edit* I get it now, looking back at the "stayed at 6, drafted someone else and he turns out to be a stud" comment. What I meant was, if CJ was there at 6, we picked someone else instead of trading down, and CJ turned out to be a stud, how would we feel?

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

Do me a favor - recite the name Charles Rogers ONE MORE TIME...so I can blast you with the stats from his first 4 NFL games...before his injury.

I'm not a fan of Detroit...and I do not argue that Charles Rogers is this supreme Wide Receiver entity...but comparing Calvin Johnson to Charles Rogers positions you without any credibility. He scored 3 TDs...in his first FOUR NFL Games...before his injury. The draft pick by Detroit, at the time, seemed to be paying off, and they were already receiving a return on their investment. Their are busts at every position - and you keep using Charles Rogers...who, before his injury and substance abuse allegations, was looking like a Superstar.

http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/396176/gamelogs/2003

And just so you know...since you like comparing athletes via position...for every Alan Branch...their is a Kevin Williams...or Ryan Sims...and for every Gaines Adams...there is a Courtney Brown.

you're STILL missing my point, which "positions" you with negative credibility.

read my original post........i said that if we picked a position of NEED, and he turned out to be a bust (ala Courtney Brown), i would be ok with it, b/c we made the reasonable pick at the time.

you really "blasted" me by the way, what with four games of stats and all. LOL. Blast on witcha bad self.

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

cmon, he scored 2 of them in his first game against the worst defense in football that year. the dude had 240 yards in his first 5 games, hardly something to get excited about. and his substance abuse issues arent helping your case.

he should have used mike williams, who is more built like CJ, maybe CJ is built for disaster just like he was? haha who knows.

i DID use mike williams.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Charles Rogers...scored 3 TDs...in his first 4 NFL Games. Name 5 rookies in the past 10 years...that have done that...especially...with John Kitna or Josh McCown throwing the ball...

We can go all day on this...

ladanian tomlinson scored 6

randy moss scored 4

roy williams scored 4

marques colstson scored 3

jones-drew scored 4 (in his first 5, sue me)

those are 5 that i found in about 10 minutes (annoying but whatever), but thats such a stupid specific stat youre looking for it is definitely hard to find. i already stated that 2 of his TDs came against a horrid defense in arizona that year, who ranked 32nd of 32 teams. thats such a small stat it really holds no water anywhere. i mean honestly it sounds pretty silly:

"DUDE, charles rogers was a beast! how many other rookies had exactly 2 broken collar bones in their first two years???? find me one other guy!"

[HateYanksDukeCowboys]

those are 5 that i found in about 10 minutes (annoying but whatever)

"DUDE, charles rogers was a beast! how many other rookies had exactly 2 broken collar bones in their first two years???? find me one other guy!"

:laugh: nice work.

[jrockster21]

We have over $100 million tied up into one position and you are considerig offering our future picks, or lack there of, for a guy that will still be a rookie in Sept '07 playing in a game that is 1 1/2 times faster than he's use to.

I'd like to see you back this ridiculous claim up...unless you're one of those who believes the face-value of a contract is what its really worth. :doh:

[JoeGibbsThickandthin]

I am sick of these trade down people. We are not a rebuilding team. Get the Nationals fantasy our of your head.

The team needs impact players NOW. The whole coaching staff and players like Moss and Portis are in their primes NOW.

They have to do whatever they can to win NOW. Its just the make up of their team. Its veterans.

Getting rookie DTs, and safetys is not going to help. Maybe the top rookie Ganes Adams. But not just trading down for mid round picks,

They need to take a player that will start for them. Johnson gives them a number 1 WR. And allows Moss to move to the second WR where he can do more damange by not having number 1 corners hold on him.

It probaly makes Jason Campbell a pro bowler.