Springs Gone?

[skinsngibbs4life]

If Springs leaves then we pretty much have to get Clements. Even at his age, Springs is a good cornerback, but he is very injury prone. Welcome to Washington, Clements.

I wouldnt really go out and say we "have to" get clements then. I still think it would be a decent idea signing two of the second tier corners (rick manning, smoot hood, ect) and then let them battle out for a starting spot.

Although I would love a combo of Rogers and Clements, I think nate will just break the bank

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

You know, does anyone have a link to this? Were all discussing somthign without a link.

I went to the WP to look for the blog, and saw nothing.

even though theres no link, i dont this topic is way off base.

[LiveStrongSkins]

Sure up the D-line and any CB will look good. With a nasty pass rush Hood would be a probowler here.

[Zen-like Todd]

Quick thought experiment.

If we cut Springs, we save 4 million this year on the cap (assuming we make him one of our pre june 1st june 1st cuts).

Let's say Clements gets an 18 million dollar signing bonus. Let's assume that's prorated over 6 years (I believe that's the case). That's a 3 million dollar hit per year. Let's further assume that he gets the min base salary for a vet, which is what, 700k or so? So 3.7 million against the cap.

So basically, you can call it a net wash for the next couple of years cap wise, and you're trading Springs, who as much as I love him as a player is 32 and very injury prone, for Nate Clements, who is only 27 years old and hasn't missed a single game in his entire career.

[SlobberKnockinFootball]

Blow carlos away? Springs has lost a step, and it showed. I remember several times last year reciever was open in the endzone and springs was always a step behind. He doesnt has the same speed anymore, and it is hard for him to keep up with people.

Carlos showed some signs of potential last year. What I dont understand is how people can blame our front seven for the cause for Sean Taylors problems, but when it comes to rogers, it is all his fault. Los was matched up with top recievers last year, and somwhat held his own.

This is kind of going out on a limb, but I still think Rogers can turn into our #1 corner

Rogers will never be a number 1 corner. Just face it.. at most he will be a number 2 corner in this league. Rogers was a top 10 pick... he should be showing signs of him coming into his own this past year and making a name for himself. The only name he's made for himself is "toast" or "skillet hands".

Right now, Rogers is nothing more than a 3rd CB on most teams in the league. I hope i'm proven wrong this year. We missed the boat on that draft pick. Merriman would of been sweet in B&G.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

OK, and can you provide me a link that says Archuletta has been released? Don't assume, just post facts please.

haha he hasnt been released, and no one said he had. springs hasnt been released either. but archuleta will probably be released, theres a reason he was benched for special teams rejects from the lions. gibbs calling him the personal punt protector had to have been the most embarrassing and ego damaging comments that man had ever heard.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Rogers will never be a number 1 corner. Just face it.. at most he will be a number 2 corner in this league. Rogers was a top 10 pick... he should be showing signs of him coming into his own this past year and making a name for himself. The only name he's made for himself is "toast" or "skillet hands".

Right now, Rogers is nothing more than a 3rd CB on most teams in the league. I hope i'm proven wrong this year. We missed the boat on that draft pick. Merriman would of been sweet in B&G.

i disagree 100%. rogers would be a great CB on any team with a defensive line. he was always around the ball, and he shut down some of the top receivers in the league including steve smith and torry holt. if we get a d-line, youll see how good rogers is. he got burnt twice this year, once during the first game of the season, and again during the tampa game, where we had an 8 MAN BLITZ AND NOBODY GOT THROUGH, and if i remember he was in press coverage, and galloway got behind him. thats not his fault. hes a good kid with a bright future, people need to stop trying to drag him down with comments like "rogers is nothing more than a 3rd CB on most teams..". you should have said, "any cornerback including champ bailey would blow monkey balls with our Dline this year".

[skinsngibbs4life]

Rogers will never be a number 1 corner. Just face it.. at most he will be a number 2 corner in this league. Rogers was a top 10 pick... he should be showing signs of him coming into his own this past year and making a name for himself. The only name he's made for himself is "toast" or "skillet hands".

Right now, Rogers is nothing more than a 3rd CB on most teams in the league. I hope i'm proven wrong this year. We missed the boat on that draft pick. Merriman would of been sweet in B&G.

Its his second year man. Chill out. Your acting like he has been in the league 6 or 7 years. Have you even gone back and watched any of the games over, or are you relying on what the people on this board are saying? Just by the fact that you are refering to his "nicknames" ( :laugh: ) I am going to assume this is the case.

And once again, let me ask, why did Sean Taylor get the benefit of the doubt while Rogers didnt? They both play on the same team right? Both with the same bad front 7? As a rookie, with a semi-decent front 7, he had a successful season. Even last year he showed signs of improving.

Further more, the guy knows his weaknesses. He is working out with some of the elite corners of all time this summer, and wants to work with the WR's to better his hands.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

Its his second year man. Chill out. Your acting like he has been in the league 6 or 7 years. Have you even gone back and watched any of the games over, or are you relying on what the people on this board are saying? Just by the fact that you are refering to his "nicknames" ( :laugh: ) I am going to assume this is the case.

And once again, let me ask, why did Sean Taylor get the benefit of the doubt while Rogers didnt? They both play on the same team right? Both with the same bad front 7? As a rookie, with a semi-decent front 7, he had a successful season. Even last year he showed signs of improving.

Further more, the guy knows his weaknesses. He is working out with some of the elite corners of all time this summer, and wants to work with the WR's to better his hands.

*hears echo from the smart cave*

*high fives*

[Veretax]

Carlos is a good tackler.

Do you remember the dallas game? it seemed like TO kept going down with Carlos taking him out down low

[skinsngibbs4life]

Quick thought experiment.

If we cut Springs, we save 4 million this year on the cap (assuming we make him one of our pre june 1st june 1st cuts).

Let's say Clements gets an 18 million dollar signing bonus. Let's assume that's prorated over 6 years (I believe that's the case). That's a 3 million dollar hit per year. Let's further assume that he gets the min base salary for a vet, which is what, 700k or so? So 3.7 million against the cap.

So basically, you can call it a net wash for the next couple of years cap wise, and you're trading Springs, who as much as I love him as a player is 32 and very injury prone, for Nate Clements, who is only 27 years old and hasn't missed a single game in his entire career.

very interesting way to look at it. Thats actually a very well worked out thought :applause:

[SlobberKnockinFootball]

i disagree 100%. rogers would be a great CB on any team with a defensive line. he was always around the ball, and he shut down some of the top receivers in the league including steve smith and torry holt. if we get a d-line, youll see how good rogers is. he got burnt twice this year, once during the first game of the season, and again during the tampa game, where we had an 8 MAN BLITZ AND NOBODY GOT THROUGH, and if i remember he was in press coverage, and galloway got behind him. thats not his fault. hes a good kid with a bright future, people need to stop trying to drag him down with comments like "rogers is nothing more than a 3rd CB on most teams..". you should have said, "any cornerback including champ bailey would blow monkey balls with our Dline this year".

And I disagree with you 100%.. were you watching the same games the rest of us were this year? When you give people 10-15 yard cushions and still get burned deep.. you have some technique problems. It's not just the lines at this point. Granted, the line would make him look a little better if they were better. But the fact of the matter is Rogers is more of a liability right now than he is an asset. You talk of him like he's a pro-bowler.

Now, i'm not saying he won't get better, but as of right now.. if I had to grade Rogers he's a 3rd CB in this league. That's my opinion of him. Others might vary...

[HEavyJumbo85]

I wouldnt really go out and say we "have to" get clements then. I still think it would be a decent idea signing two of the second tier corners (rick manning, smoot hood, ect) and then let them battle out for a starting spot.

Although I would love a combo of Rogers and Clements, I think nate will just break the bank

Well I really think the F.O., as dumb as they look, would be smart enough to figure out a way to sign Clements and have room for others. You never know though, but one thing they seem to be good at is managing the cap. I expect them to be able to sign whoever they want. I just think they need to be smarter about who they want. Either the scouting department needs to get a clue or Vinny needs to stop listening to Snyder when he starts making football related suggestions.

[Arsenic]

considering FA starts in about 9 days, id say dock is gone, unless the front office figures something out asap.

I wonder if the Skins' even want to keep Dockery.

Yes, they come out and say he's a great player to the media, but they very rarely call anyone out and say something negative - heck even Warrick Holdman gets some praise.

Look at the golden child Eagles FO, even they let 2-3 players go every year.

Just sayin', maybe you can't just re-sign everybody on the roster every year.

Maybe what Portis said about Dock and his pulling ability has some merit to it.

[SlobberKnockinFootball]

Its his second year man. Chill out. Your acting like he has been in the league 6 or 7 years. Have you even gone back and watched any of the games over, or are you relying on what the people on this board are saying? Just by the fact that you are refering to his "nicknames" ( :laugh: ) I am going to assume this is the case.

And once again, let me ask, why did Sean Taylor get the benefit of the doubt while Rogers didnt? They both play on the same team right? Both with the same bad front 7? As a rookie, with a semi-decent front 7, he had a successful season. Even last year he showed signs of improving.

Further more, the guy knows his weaknesses. He is working out with some of the elite corners of all time this summer, and wants to work with the WR's to better his hands.

I have watched every game over and over.. I DVR'd every game this year. It's a long offseason so that's all I'm doing is re-watching the Skins games finding out where things went wrong. And Mr. Rogers after re-watching the entire the season over is one of the problem areas along with Holdman, Marshall, the safety play and the lack of pass rush from the D-line. The entire defense almost needs a face lift.

No, Sean Taylor doesn't get the benefit of the doubt.. but Sean Taylor has done more in this league so far than Rogers has. So Taylor get's a mulligan this year. Rogers has had his opportunities to make plays on the ball and has failed miserably.. My 9 year old son has better hands than him right now.

So don't sit there and talk down on me and you don't have a clue what I've been doing. Just because I disagree with your opinion doesn't mean you got to act like an ass.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

And I disagree with you 100%.. were you watching the same games the rest of us were this year? When you give people 10-15 yard cushions and still get burned deep.. you have some technique problems. It's not just the lines at this point. Granted, the line would make him look a little better if they were better. But the fact of the matter is Rogers is more of a liability right now than he is an asset. You talk of him like he's a pro-bowler.

Now, i'm not saying he won't get better, but as of right now.. if I had to grade Rogers he's a 3rd CB in this league. That's my opinion of him. Others might vary...

first of all, thats williams call to play 10-15 yards off a guy, not rogers. springs did this a ton too, and i remember all the "only carlos does this" talk quieting down after people realized it wasnt just rogers. williams probably had them do this because he knew our line was going to get no penetration whatsoever. maybe youre forgetting that we had the worst defense in football and our team set NFL RECORDS IN FUTILITY. we had 19 sacks as a team. thats not even pathetic. if theres another word thats like 8 steps below pathetic, let me know, cause its close to that. and seriously, id like to see all these plays where rogers got burned deep other than the two that i mentioned. i remember him shutting down steve smith, i remember him shutting down torry holt, and i remember him playing at a pro bowl level during the saints game.

you wanna talk about burnt, lets discuss kenny wright, mike rumph, and sean taylor (cries) because ST got burned deep much more than rogers did. and kenny wright was beyond horrendous, and rumph was so bad he got released. and springs got pwned hard in the second dallas game if i remember. it wasnt just carlos. our d-line was just terrible this season and it had a huge trickle effect.

[Brandon Lloyd Christmas]

I have watched every game over and over.. I DVR'd every game this year. It's a long offseason so that's all I'm doing is re-watching the Skins games finding out where things went wrong. And Mr. Rogers after re-watching the entire the season over is one of the problem areas along with Holdman, Marshall, the safety play and the lack of pass rush from the D-line. The entire defense almost needs a face lift.

No, Sean Taylor doesn't get the benefit of the doubt.. but Sean Taylor has done more in this league so far than Rogers has. So Taylor get's a mulligan this year. Rogers has had his opportunities to make plays on the ball and has failed miserably.. My 9 year old son has better hands than him right now.

So don't sit there and talk down on me and you don't have a clue what I've been doing. Just because I disagree with your opinion doesn't mean you got to act like an ass.

i would love copies of those if you have them, arguments aside. let me know if i can get a hold of them.

[cmorina69]

If this is true this sucks, we need him, him and carlos are a good team, plus he can keep teaching carlos the ropes.

[Hooper]

Carlos is not looking like a number one corner right now -- not even close.

[skinsngibbs4life]

I have watched every game over and over.. I DVR'd every game this year. It's a long offseason so that's all I'm doing is re-watching the Skins games finding out where things went wrong. And Mr. Rogers after re-watching the entire the season over is one of the problem areas along with Holdman, Marshall, the safety play and the lack of pass rush from the D-line. The entire defense almost needs a face lift.

No, Sean Taylor doesn't get the benefit of the doubt.. but Sean Taylor has done more in this league so far than Rogers has. So Taylor get's a mulligan this year. Rogers has had his opportunities to make plays on the ball and has failed miserably.. My 9 year old son has better hands than him right now.

So don't sit there and talk down on me and you don't have a clue what I've been doing. Just because I disagree with your opinion doesn't mean you got to act like an ass.

yet, the only thing you thing you can actually provide to back up your claim is him dropping Ints. I dont think anyone on here would disagree with you there. However, he is going to work on that, and it will get better.

So, if that is the only thing you can bring up for him not being "better than a 3rd CB", then I guess he will be fine for next year then, huh?

[SlobberKnockinFootball]

first of all, thats williams call to play 10-15 yards off a guy, not rogers. springs did this a ton too, and i remember all the "only carlos does this" talk quieting down after people realized it wasnt just rogers. williams probably had them do this because he knew our line was going to get no penetration whatsoever. maybe youre forgetting that we had the worst defense in football and our team set NFL RECORDS IN FUTILITY. we had 19 sacks as a team. thats not even pathetic. if theres another word thats like 8 steps below pathetic, let me know, cause its close to that. and seriously, id like to see all these plays where rogers got burned deep other than the two that i mentioned. i remember him shutting down steve smith, i remember him shutting down torry holt, and i remember him playing at a pro bowl level during the saints game.

you wanna talk about burnt, lets discuss kenny wright, mike rumph, and sean taylor (cries) because ST got burned deep much more than rogers did. and kenny wright was beyond horrendous, and rumph was so bad he got released. and springs got pwned hard in the second dallas game if i remember. it wasnt just carlos. our d-line was just terrible this season and it had a huge trickle effect.

I understand that Williams calls the plays for the cushion. But what i'm trying to say is that he's playing that far off and still getting torched deep. I know Springs has done it as well, but the conversation that we are having is on Rogers right now. I can recall Rogers getting beat more than the two times that you've mentioned. I'm going back over the season again and I'll let you know what I find on him. I'll PM you with the info.

I don't disagree with you on the other CB's mentioned.. I think you and I could cover just as good as those guys... that's pathetic.

[Russell Shotgun]

I agree in dropping Springs - he's just too old and he's not as fast as he used to be. We need a shut-down corner opposite Rogers and Springs isn't it - even when healthy.

I really don't think you can place blame on Rogers for his play last year, just like Taylor, he was trying to play for a D with no pass rush, no run stoppage and no coverage help. Rogers will have a better year net year with a solid starter opposite him, not the rotating trio of Springs/Wright/whatever other training camp cut we pick up.

[SlobberKnockinFootball]

i would love copies of those if you have them, arguments aside. let me know if i can get a hold of them.

I'm going to need someone with a little knowledge of how to pull them off a DVR and I'll put them on DVD's for you no problem.

[SlobberKnockinFootball]

I agree in dropping Springs - he's just too old and he's not as fast as he used to be. We need a shut-down corner opposite Rogers and Springs isn't it - even when healthy.

I really don't think you can place blame on Rogers for his play last year, just like Taylor, he was trying to play for a D with no pass rush, no run stoppage and no coverage help. Rogers will have a better year net year with a solid starter opposite him, not the rotating trio of Springs/Wright/whatever other training camp cut we pick up.

What if Rogers doesn't have a good year next year? Then what are we going to say then?

Like I said, i hope he proves me wrong because the nightmare of leaving Merriman on the board is killing me at this point. I'd rather have a player we can talk about positively rather than negatively on this board for a change.

[D-Day]

Quick thought experiment.

If we cut Springs, we save 4 million this year on the cap (assuming we make him one of our pre june 1st june 1st cuts).

Let's say Clements gets an 18 million dollar signing bonus. Let's assume that's prorated over 6 years (I believe that's the case). That's a 3 million dollar hit per year. Let's further assume that he gets the min base salary for a vet, which is what, 700k or so? So 3.7 million against the cap.

So basically, you can call it a net wash for the next couple of years cap wise, and you're trading Springs, who as much as I love him as a player is 32 and very injury prone, for Nate Clements, who is only 27 years old and hasn't missed a single game in his entire career.

I actually expect his contract to be like this

62 mil with about 19 guaranteed over 7 yrs.

8 mil upfront signing bonus

5 mil roster bonus in year 3

1 mil per year roster bonus for the other 5 yrs.

With a first year salary of around 2 mil he will get 9 mil the first year and have a cap hit of 3.175ish mil. So if Springs is a june first cut he will probably be a net + for the cap and with small net - minus next year and then springs will be off of the books.

Get-R-Done