For Better or For Worse

[Beauty is Only]

For Better or For Worse

By Steve Pizzini

Fanship, it seems, is not what it once was. Used to be that a guy’s or gal’s team was a guy’s or gal’s team, win or lose, year in, year out. One grinned and bore it in tough seasons, and reveled in championship seasons (if one was, in fact, blessed to be attached to a franchise that won the Big One, at least once in it’s history). A sports team was one’s “spouse.” The modern “irreconcilable differences” view of marriage notwithstanding, you don’t quit on your spouse. Seems nowadays with sports fans, there are “divorces” happening all the time. I’m with the ‘Skins ‘til death do us part.

As a “married” fan, it’s hard to delineate when one’s relationship with a sports team officially begins. It’s not as if there’s a “wedding day” where a man or woman officially declares, in front of God and gathered witnesses, that he or she will henceforth “love, honor and cherish” their chosen team “for better or for worse.” There are different ways fans come to embrace their teams. Some are indoctrinated from birth, others adopt the team of their family or friends or geographic location at a later age. Still others are drawn in by a particularly compelling season. The last of these is what happened to me. I wonder just how many ‘Skins fans “got married” during the 1982-83 season? Riggo was one heck of a suitor.

The Redskins did much to cement our relationship during that initial decade of wedded bliss. There was much success and it was not unreasonable to believe that the ‘Skins had a shot at making the playoffs, if not the Super Bowl, most seasons during Joe Gibbs’ first run. But, as with actual interpersonal relationships, some of the initial luster wears off. The post-Gibbs era was painful, in an “I-don’t-even-know-you-anymore” sort of way. The team had changed, and not for the better. While that stretch of marriage was rocky, it was still covered under the aforementioned “…for worse” clause. You don’t stop loving because someone makes poor choices. You stay with the one to whom you vowed your vows.

I no longer live in ‘Skins Territory. I hardly ever get to see a game on TV. A return to Richmond, the town in which my relationship with the Redskins began, is unlikely. But, unlike some displaced “fans,” I have no intention of starting over with the closest team geographically. If it must be a long-distance relationship, then so be it. I’m a married man. It’s ever after for me, happily or not.

[Troy Fakeman]

Interesting - and the Coaches have to understand...when we have had over a decade of pure extreme mental retardation...and finally have a group of leaders to "believe" in...and they still do questionable things...WE GET PISSED OFF.

It still amazes me...that they still think they can win under their current "philosophy"...especially when other owners, coaches, and players joke at them...their lack of depth b/c no draft picks...their overspending...etc.

[Fredburgskin]

Good Post.

Unfortunately for me my "marriage" with this team only began after Gibbs left the first time. I envy all the fans who are old enough to remember the glory days.

I am still waiting for mine with this team. I could never stop loving it though. I'm pretty much in it for the long haul.

[[[ghost]]]

I agree. I hate bandwagon fans now a days. Punks.

I'm with the skins till the day they die

[LoyalSkinsFan]

It's funny...some marriages are made when the bride or groom are not necessarily at their best (thankfully, mine was not one of those). Still, my "marriage" to the Redskins took place in a time before even George Allen's success. I'm not sure of this.....it's a tough thing to discern....but, I've come to believe that those marriages made under duress, as it were, were forged with something stronger than those committed to during bliss. I'm speaking of "football" marriages, here....of course. I've remained a loyal Redskin fan, year in and year out, ever since. There are bandwagon fans of all ages, certainly...particularly when you factor in life and geographic changes....but I'm hoping that those younger fans who have found this team onoy during the last ten to fifteen years of constant disappointement will hang in and stay loyal....being patient enough to finally, when it arrives, bask in the sheer joy of success like I did...at long last...back in 1983.

Good post.

HTTR

[HailSkinz1]

Nice read, Beauty. Most of us will remain fans forever, but that doesn't mean we don't think our "spouse" could use a little "counseling" from time to time.

Hail,

H

[MRMADD]

You don’t stop loving because someone makes poor choices. You stay with the one to whom you vowed your vows.

Threads like these remind me of the video clips of the USC Song Girl cheering... at the wrong time. She's a fan, she loves her team, but she knows so little about what's actually happening that she doesn't know when to cheer or not. With the Redskins, ignorance is bliss.

Many of us are Redskins fans, but not in the USC Song Girl way. The Skins are losers not because of bad luck, but because of bad decisions. It's perfectly appropriate, as a fan, to criticize those bad decisions and call for change.

I think there are a few major types of fans:

The USC Song Girl: You love the Skins soooo much that you'll cheer while opposing teams run up the score.

The Bandwagoneer: The Skins are winning? Hurray! The Skins are losing? Oh well... I'll find something else to do.

The Die Hards: You want the Skins to win so badly that it makes you angry when they screw up. But you're in it for the long haul.

The Song Girls out there often confuse the Die Hards for Bandwagoneers: when the going gets tough, like it is now, you accuse them of jumping off the bandwagon. But anyone who's posting on ES during the quietest part of the offseason sure as hell ain't a Bandwagoneer. They're all gone now.

In your "marriage", you've got a choice: you can just quietly accept that your spouse is cheating, or you can demand counseling. The Skins (and Snyder) betrayed us, not the other way around. But we're not going anywhere.

[Chump Bailey]

What ever happened to just being a 'fan'?

What is this seemingly constant obsession with trying to 'one-up' each other on the Redskin's fan barometer - why?

[Om]

And why does MADD's (presumably exhaustive) list of the different "kinds of fans" look suspiciously like this?

[TheLongshot]

With my sports relationships, I'm pretty much into them for life, unless I feel betrayed. That pretty much sums up my relationship with the Orioles, where the firing of Davey Johnson pretty much convinced me that the Angelos didn't have that much interest in winning. The fact that they have been a non-factor ever since pretty much backs that up.

Meanwhile, the Redskins don't do everything right, but they are making a good faith effort in trying to win. In that, they still deserve my support.

MRMADD, on the other hand, acts like a jealous husband, who's trust is very limited, and with any sign of falseness, will dump on the spouse. It sounds like a dysfunctional relationship to me.

Jason

[Chump Bailey]

With my sports relationships, I'm pretty much into them for life, unless I feel betrayed. That pretty much sums up my relationship with the Orioles, where the firing of Davey Johnson pretty much convinced me that the Angelos didn't have that much interest in winning. The fact that they have been a non-factor ever since pretty much backs that up.Jason

Wow - I feel exactly the same way regarding the O's there L.S. What the heck is Angelos doing? The team has some good pieces in place, but Angelos never wants to pull the trigger on a deal that would solidify this team's chances of competeing in the Al East - The Blue Jay's and Red Sox are making huge strides. The Yankee's will surely be in the hunt.

The Orioles seem to take one step forward and three back. We could have landed two legit number one starting pitchers in the last two off-seasons - which is exactly what we need. They were there for the taking...

Cal Ripken I've heard has the backing and is willing to buy the team should Peter sell - I sure hope so!

[Beauty is Only]

Threads like these remind me of the video clips of the USC Song Girl cheering... at the wrong time. She's a fan, she loves her team, but she knows so little about what's actually happening that she doesn't know when to cheer or not. With the Redskins, ignorance is bliss..

I'll admit, I'm a bit ignorant when it comes to hardcore football knowledge. I know the basic rules of football, but I've never played the game at any organized level. I watch football for entertainment purposes and have learned more about offensive and defensive schemes over the years (some of the ‘deeper’ knowledge coming from members of this board).

Many of us are Redskins fans, but not in the USC Song Girl way. The Skins are losers not because of bad luck, but because of bad decisions. It's perfectly appropriate, as a fan, to criticize those bad decisions and call for change.

I agree, but I don’t feel I can legitimately or constructively criticize a situation until I know all the ins and outs of it. When it comes to football, and Redskins football in particular, I don’t have all the answers and am not about to pretend like I do. I can see the wins and losses and statistics from this year and say ‘the team definitely need to win more games’ or ‘the team needs to improve in this area.’ As to how we should go about doing that, I can’t, with a good conscience, sit here and type what specific moves we should make or what schemes should be implemented. Even the most incompetent coach in the NFL has infinitely more football knowledge than I do (and, I would say, than most members of this board). I stick with commenting on what I know, and I know I’m a ‘Skins fan. If you are confident that you know better than the coaches/front office/ veteran players of this team, then by all means, offer your advice. I don’t feel I’ve gotten to that point in my level of football knowledge yet.

I think there are a few major types of fans:

The USC Song Girl: You love the Skins soooo much that you'll cheer while opposing teams run up the score.

The Bandwagoneer: The Skins are winning? Hurray! The Skins are losing? Oh well... I'll find something else to do.

The Die Hards: You want the Skins to win so badly that it makes you angry when they screw up. But you're in it for the long haul.

The Song Girls out there often confuse the Die Hards for Bandwagoneers: when the going gets tough, like it is now, you accuse them of jumping off the bandwagon. But anyone who's posting on ES during the quietest part of the offseason sure as hell ain't a Bandwagoneer. They're all gone now.

So, I’m a “USC Song Girl”, by your estimation (by the way, check out this link for more information on why the photo you’re referring to is probably not what it seems: http://www.snopes.com/photos/sports/rosebowl.asp). I’m just so happy that the ‘Skins are even fielding a team that wins or losses, even at the hands of the Cowboys, are inconsequential. I just want to see some burgundy and gold uniforms out on the field, right? You couldn’t be more wrong.

I can honestly tell you that watching a ‘Skins game (I don’t live in ‘Skins country anymore, so it rarely happens now) is a very tense, emotional experience for me. I cringe when the opposition hands us a three-and-out at a critical juncture, I pump my fist when the ‘Skins put together a long, clock-draining drive culminating in a go-ahead touchdown. I get fully immersed. I want the ‘Skins to win, not just make a good showing. Their losses pain me, probably more than they should.

I realize there are those who blindly cheer for this team, homers to the core who would never dream of uttering a disparaging word against the Burgundy and Gold, even when the team is at its most advanced level of incompetence. By the same token, there are those who make it their business to second guess every move the team makes and rain cries of ‘incompetence’ and ‘arrogance’ at coaches and players when things go wrong (or right). Being a fanatic (which is what ‘fan’ is short for) manifests itself in different ways in different people.

In a fan base, there will always be polar opposites. Some will always gush over the team, some will always naysay. In the middle is realism. Things are not always as bad as they seem (after all, it’s just a game) nor as good as they seem (that 2-7 opponent on the schedule is still composed of NFL athletes, and they might just beat your team regardless of their recent history).

In your "marriage", you've got a choice: you can just quietly accept that your spouse is cheating, or you can demand counseling. The Skins (and Snyder) betrayed us, not the other way around. But we're not going anywhere.

I realize that I used the marriage analogy in my post, but do you really think the team ‘cheated on you’? Do you think that the team went behind your back and rigged the games, intentionally throwing contests to screw with you? Was Joe Gibbs not giving it his all in an effort to lose games? Were the offseason acquisitions made in an effort to make this team less of a contender than they were last year? I think you might be stretching things a bit if you think that’s the case. I highly doubt the organization is ‘out to get you.’ If they really do have a vendetta against you, I ask you: ‘Who are you and what did you do to the ‘Skins to elicit this response?

You don’t stop loving because someone makes poor choices. You stay with the one to whom you vowed your vows

Loving is not merely pacifying and making sure the loved one ‘feels good.’ Loving might mean confronting someone with their failures in an attempt to help them improve. In an interpersonal relationship, this probably should happen from time to time. In a fan’s relationship with a team, it happens a lot, even though, to a greater degree, it doesn’t do a whole lot of good. Person-to-person is different than person-to-team. Catalysts for change on a team should not be ‘the unwashed masses’ (i.e., dumb fans like me) who do not know the ins and outs of football teams or front offices. The coaches know the fans want a winning team and I can guarantee with reasonable certainty that no owner or front office is thinking ‘the path to financial success is paved with losses and the alienation of our fan base.’ I don’t think Dan Snyder is out to get us. He seems to be a bigger ‘Skins fan than most of us, emotionally and financially.

[MRMADD]

With my sports relationships, I'm pretty much into them for life, unless I feel betrayed. That pretty much sums up my relationship with the Orioles, where the firing of Davey Johnson pretty much convinced me that the Angelos didn't have that much interest in winning. The fact that they have been a non-factor ever since pretty much backs that up.

Meanwhile, the Redskins don't do everything right, but they are making a good faith effort in trying to win. In that, they still deserve my support.

MRMADD, on the other hand, acts like a jealous husband, who's trust is very limited, and with any sign of falseness, will dump on the spouse. It sounds like a dysfunctional relationship to me.

Jason

"Any sign of falseness"? Gee, that's an interesting way to characterize an organization who gave us Jeff George, Steve Spurrier, etc, and has a record that is among the 5 worst in the league since Snyder took over. It's not like I turned on these guys overnight. Snyder is a proven, long-term failure.

I don't think the Skins are making a "good faith effort". I think they've badly bungled it. And you don't have to go back to Spurrier or Deion or Jeff George or charging for training camp -- just this year they wasted draft picks to rent TJ Duckett, wasted draft picks to sign a well-known punk to a massive uncuttable contract, traded three draft picks for a linebacker who didn't play, and signed a limited safety who rides the bench to the largest contract in NFL history. That's not a "good faith effort". They're the laughingstock of the entire league.

So yeah, I've turned on Snyder and his minions. Their philosophy is a proven failure, and yet they refuse to change. That's idiotic. So blame me if you like, but I've been a steadfast lifelong fan, and will remain so. You're the one who admits abandoning your team when they disappoint you. But I do expect the Skins to keep their end of the bargain.

You seem to think my options are to abandon the Skins or just get used to losing. That's your approach, right? You abandoned the Orioles, but you're keeping the Skins because you're used to losing. No complaints from you. I can understand Om, who works for Snyder, to be comfortable, but why in the world is any Skins fan happy with the team?

You don't want me to complain? Not gonna happen until the Skins make real, substantive changes in the way they do business that deliver results on the field, even if that takes time. In your book, that makes me less of a fan. In my book, it makes me more of a fan.

[Hooper]

"Any sign of falseness"? Gee, that's an interesting way to characterize an organization who gave us Jeff George, Steve Spurrier, etc, and has a record that is among the 5 worst in the league since Snyder took over. It's not like I turned on these guys overnight. Snyder is a proven, long-term failure.

I don't think the Skins are making a "good faith effort". I think they've badly bungled it. And you don't have to go back to Spurrier or Deion or Jeff George or charging for training camp -- just this year they wasted draft picks to rent TJ Duckett, wasted draft picks to sign a well-known punk to a massive uncuttable contract, traded three draft picks for a linebacker who didn't play, and signed a limited safety who rides the bench to the largest contract in NFL history. That's not a "good faith effort". They're the laughingstock of the entire league.

So yeah, I've turned on Snyder and his minions. Their philosophy is a proven failure, and yet they refuse to change. That's idiotic. So blame me if you like, but I've been a steadfast lifelong fan, and will remain so. You're the one who admits abandoning your team when they disappoint you. But I do expect the Skins to keep their end of the bargain.

You seem to think my options are to abandon the Skins or just get used to losing. That's your approach, right? You abandoned the Orioles, but you're keeping the Skins because you're used to losing. No complaints from you. I can understand Om, who works for Snyder, to be comfortable, but why in the world is any Skins fan happy with the team?

You don't want me to complain? Not gonna happen until the Skins make real, substantive changes in the way they do business that deliver results on the field, even if that takes time. In your book, that makes me less of a fan. In my book, it makes me more of a fan.

MRMADD, I completely agree with you.

[LoyalSkinsFan]

Well, to begin with, Om doesn't work for the team and his opinions are his own.

(Well, they may be Snyder's, but who can really prove that?)

Secondly, I don't think anyone can argue the fact that the Redskins have been far from winners this last decade....but I don't think anyone can argue the fact that they've also put out the "good faith effort" to make themselves a winner. No, many of their moves haven't turned out the way we'd like them to have, but lack of success and lack of effort don't necessarily go hand in hand. On the field, perhaps, but not from a front office perspective.

Love him or hate him, I do think that Daniel Snyder has done whatever he can do to make this team a winner. Problem is, all he can really do is spend money. But, he's done that. The real problem is that the football people in the organization haven't used that money effectively....nor have their football "systems" to date either worked with the players at hand...or worked at all.

Still, after all the comings and goings of both good football people and bad over the last fifteen years, I DO believe that the people in place now are the ones who can right the ship.....given time. Doesn't mean we can't piss and moan during the painful growth stages, but we can't realistically expect all this to be fixed overnight.

I'm as anxious as the next guy....just more willing to give Joe Gibbs and his staff the benefit of the doubt than others, I guess.

Hopeully, it'll end up being faith well placed.

HTTR

[TheLongshot]

I don't think the Skins are making a "good faith effort". I think they've badly bungled it. And you don't have to go back to Spurrier or Deion or Jeff George or charging for training camp -- just this year they wasted draft picks to rent TJ Duckett, wasted draft picks to sign a well-known punk to a massive uncuttable contract, traded three draft picks for a linebacker who didn't play, and signed a limited safety who rides the bench to the largest contract in NFL history. That's not a "good faith effort". They're the laughingstock of the entire league.

Can you really argue that these moves weren't made in the best interest of the team? I mean, with maybe the exception of Arch, they were done to address weaknesses most of us saw in 2005. Just because they didn't work out doesn't mean that the FO was not acting in good faith.

Also, it doesn't mean that all of these moves will end up being disasters. You don't draft a guy for what he can do as a rookie, but what he can do over his career. Arch and Lloyd still have the potential to live up to their contracts. So, this isn't nessicarily the disaster you claim it is.

So yeah, I've turned on Snyder and his minions. Their philosophy is a proven failure, and yet they refuse to change. That's idiotic. So blame me if you like, but I've been a steadfast lifelong fan, and will remain so. You're the one who admits abandoning your team when they disappoint you. But I do expect the Skins to keep their end of the bargain.

Sure, I did. Mainly because I could tell that Angelos wasn't really serious about fielding a contending team. They never seemed to make the moves to get the players they needed at key spots to contend against NY and Boston.

Yet, you seem to feel the same way, but you keep coming back. What is it? Do you have battered fan syndrome?

You seem to think my options are to abandon the Skins or just get used to losing. That's your approach, right? You abandoned the Orioles, but you're keeping the Skins because you're used to losing. No complaints from you. I can understand Om, who works for Snyder, to be comfortable, but why in the world is any Skins fan happy with the team?

No, that isn't quite it. I abandoned the O's because I knew that the ownership was not committed to winning. I don't feel the same way about Snyder and the Redskins. Am I happy? Course not. But, I don't doubt that Snyder and Gibbs are trying to build a winner. Mistakes have been made, but there is the hope that they learn from them and continue to move forward.

You don't want me to complain? Not gonna happen until the Skins make real, substantive changes in the way they do business that deliver results on the field, even if that takes time. In your book, that makes me less of a fan. In my book, it makes me more of a fan.

All the complaining in the world isn't going to change Dan Snyder into an owner that runs the team the way you'd like him to run it. After 7 years, you should have a good read of what type of owner he is. He's not likely to change. He certainly isn't going to change because any of us say so. So, as a fan of the Washington Redskins, you are going to have to accept the way he does business, for good or ill.

Jason

[MRMADD]

All the complaining in the world isn't going to change Dan Snyder into an owner that runs the team the way you'd like him to run it. After 7 years, you should have a good read of what type of owner he is. He's not likely to change. He certainly isn't going to change because any of us say so. So, as a fan of the Washington Redskins, you are going to have to accept the way he does business, for good or ill.

Jason

Completely wrong. Dead wrong. Dan Snyder may be selfish, greedy, and misguided, but he isn't stupid. We're his customers. "All the complaining in the world" would produce results. In fact, if you had 80% of the Skins fans bombarding him with messages demanding discipline and accountability, you can bet he'd listen. Especially if we back them up with action -- keeping our wallets in our pockets.

But 80% of the Skins fans just cheer for his latest free agent acquisition and run out and buy a new jersey. There's a sucker born every minute. And, my friend, you sound like one.

[grhqofb5]

Mr. Madd reigns supreme.

[TheLongshot]

Completely wrong. Dead wrong. Dan Snyder may be selfish, greedy, and misguided, but he isn't stupid. We're his customers. "All the complaining in the world" would produce results. In fact, if you had 80% of the Skins fans bombarding him with messages demanding discipline and accountability, you can bet he'd listen. Especially if we back them up with action -- keeping our wallets in our pockets.

No, all the complaining in the world won't do a damn thing. In the end, someone will buy the tickets. That's the way it has always been here.

Also, while people may be upset, they can't agree on a darn thing. Look how many opinions are expressed on this board. Hell, I think a lot of fans here are about as clueless as they claim the owner is. I certainly wouldn't want the owner to take advice from people more clueless than he is. (and I include myself in that bunch.)

But 80% of the Skins fans just cheer for his latest free agent acquisition and run out and buy a new jersey. There's a sucker born every minute. And, my friend, you sound like one.

Sorry, but you are way off the mark on that one.

Jason

[kevin11]

]']I agree. I hate bandwagon fans now a days. Punks.

I'm with the skins till the day they die

, I will be too. When we start winning, there is no room on the bandwagon for fans like that..We'll kick them off..

[kevin11]

But 80% of the Skins fans just cheer for his latest free agent acquisition and run out and buy a new jersey. There's a sucker born every minute. And, my friend, you sound like one.

I fell in the trap of AA and ARE. I thought we could win a SB because of our stellar defense..:doh:

God, how times have changed.

[Om]

I can understand Om, who works for Snyder, to be comfortable, but why in the world is any Skins fan happy with the team?

:laugh:

I missed this little gem before. Not surprising, since MADD, who works for the National Enquirer, tends to hide his silly little barbs in mountains of disinformation and other trash talk.

[KingGibbs]

What ever happened to just being a 'fan'?

What is this seemingly constant obsession with trying to 'one-up' each other on the Redskin's fan barometer - why?

:applause: So true. I would love to pull up those threads before the season started in which people such as myself were questioning the moves or lack thereof the team was making and were called "fairweather" fans just because we had the audacity to question the moves the team that we are a fan of were making.

[Tarhog]

Beauty,

Well-written post. A couple points - I don't think 'fans' have changed one bit. The NFL has Fans? Not so much. The difference that sets 'now' apart from the 1980's when your courtship began is that fans now have a voice (beyond booing from the stands or with their wallets) to shout their displeasure from the rooftops. This messageboard is just one example. I won't tar and feather my fellow fans for any reason - almost ANY response to 15 years of drudgery and (mostly) disappointment is understandable. I've been a homer and apologist most of my adult life. This season rid me of it. I don't 'blame' Dan Snyder or anyone for that matter for the lack of recent glory, but I do hold him responsible. Ultimately, he's made most of the decisions that got us to where we currently reside, mired in mediocrity. Does that make it his 'fault'? No, not necessarily, but its his job to find a winning formula as an organization. Fans pay a LOT, both in real terms, and emotionally, to love their NFL team. How they grieve is their own business.

I also found it curious that you are a 'die hard' fan by your own description, yet casually mention you only get to watch a few games. Why is that? I can't imagine describing myself as such and not doing whatever it took to see all the games each season. I'm not judging you, I just found it odd as I think most rabid fans would find that arrangement entirely unacceptable. Are you, in your own mind, a 'die hard', and if so, how can you not watch every game?

Just curious - I thought the two comments were pretty incongruous. But again, well-written post.

[MRMADD]

:laugh:

I missed this little gem before. Not surprising, since MADD, who works for the National Enquirer, tends to hide his silly little barbs in mountains of disinformation and other trash talk.

You caught me: I work for the National Enquirer. Next week we're breaking an explosive front-page story about Danny and Vinny's love affair. Complete with pictures, mostly of the two lovebirds sneaking into the locker room late at night and trying on all the jockstraps together.

You won't want to miss it.