Redskins Coaches who Deserve the Ax

[skins4eva]

I want to apologize for being a jerk

I was in a bad mood an this thread just sent me over the edge a bit, taking childish cheap shots, doesn't add anything when you want to express a point

So I am sorry

but I still express the same point, calling for someone to be fired is excessive, especially when you don't have the knowledge of the situation

being upset or disappointed over the season does not justify the level of bloodlust many threads seem to be calling for lately

Well, I appreciate it--and I apoligize for taking cheap shots as well. Again, this is merely my opinion--it's not any type of bloodlust, but I feel that it's a fair ground for discussion, and I certainly don't think the coaches have really been held as accountable as they deserve to be--if this were anyone else but Gibbs, anyone, the mob would be out in force.

[RF4L]

In your worldview' date=' this board should clearly not exist...yet you have 50,000 posts.[/quote']

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

to you L_k_b

[KingGibbs]

To be honest' date=' I think QB coach is the most over-rated coaching position in any sport. Every now and then, a QB coach hooks up with a great young QB and makes his reputation - like Musgrave. But I don't know of any example where a QB coach improved a bad or even middling QB. QBs seem to get better organically or just stall.

You see running backs and receivers improve all the time. But most of the time, QBs show you all you need to know by the middle of the third year.

Heck, Tom Brady - for all his sixth-round legacy - was a star by his fourth start.[/quote']

I understand what you are saying, but an experienced QB coach can only help further the development and speed up that development. The communication is a constant between the two and would you rather have someone who understands an NFL defense or someone who is essentialy an understudy?

[drowland]

I hope he does stay, but he needs to adjust to the players and not the players adjust to him. The OL loves the ground game and they are much stronger attacking vs pass blocking. You always see their intensity level go up a notch when the run-pass ratio favors the run.

I agree some what. But why did they go hire a guy Saunders, pay him $2 mil a yr, and then make him adjust to what they have? I don't think that was orginal plan. Otherwise why did they spend all that $$ on WRs if they're just going to be a power running team?

[RF4L]

Bubba' date=' we do - sorta - know what goes on at Redskins Park because - you know - there are articles and stuff out there that gives us some insight. I believe there was a Tom Friend piece a while back that a few folks read.

And we certainly know what occurs on the field. Why? Because we have eyes.

You - to a large degree - and Om - to a smaller degree - love to push this idea that pro football is quantum physics and that we lay people shall never understand it's mysteries. Discussing football is not figuring out fusion. Heck, it's not even discussing the mysteries of the Church of Rome.

We know that the secondary is ridiculousy bad. And we suspect that the two secondary coaches are hated by their players. So...there you go.

I would love to deal with you in business.

Me: My order is ten days late. Is there something wrong with your inventory?

Bubba: You don't know what goes on in my factory so you can't ask me that.

Me: Well, you know, I ordered something and it's not here. And since you run the factory, I'm asking you...

Bubba: You think it's my fault, huh? I guess you never heard of employees who call in sick?

Me: Well...yea...but, you know, I still want my order.

Bubba: Your order is fine. Stop asking about it.[/quote']

omg, this is even better :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

double toast to you Lombardi

[RF4L]

The fact that we are sparing Gibbs' date=' Williams, and Saunders here shows a surprising lack of bloodlust in my opinion.

I've never worked for a company that had a bad year and didn't make changes at the top.[/quote']

In all seriousness, Gibbs sucks this time around in every phase of running a football team. He should fire himself. :mad:

Greg Williams is the leader of what is probably one of the worst defenses ever fielded in NFL history in terms making stops and helping the offense out with field position (i.e. TO's). Incredible. He should be fired right now with three games left. :mad:

If Al Saunders is really calling these idiotic plays on his own he should just go to the bar on Sundays and watch. He's out of touch with the team he is supposed to be coaching and what they're capabilities are. :mad:

I've been a Reskins fan for a long time and this Gibbs regime is the biggest farce I've seen yet. I truly believe that Norv's teams were run better. OMG. I can't believe I just said that!!!!! :doh:

[bobisimo]

To be honest' date=' I think QB coach is the most over-rated coaching position in any sport.[/quote']

I would disagre with your post from the POV that a good QB with a familiar QB coach - who then loses that QB coach - can often times become an inconsistent performer. A good QB coach works with the QB on his fundamentals and reminds him of the little things. I've seen a few QBs who had put together several good years in a row lose their QB coach (entirely, or saw him replaced by a new coach), and then suddenly that QB loses a bit of his consistency and seems to see his skills slightly denegrate.

Anyone who can keep a QB performing well cannot be considered overrated.

[KingGibbs]

I agree some what. But why did they go hire a guy Saunders, pay him $2 mil a yr, and then make him adjust to what they have? I don't think that was orginal plan. Otherwise why did they spend all that $$ on WRs if they're just going to be a power running team?

It's not just a power running game. Larry Johnson and Priest Holmes aren't exactly backs that you would run up thr gut. It's Saunder's ability to use both the running game and passing game with equal success that has made him a top OC. His history proves that and this year was perhaps a learning curve for this offense because it has shown flashes of being able to move the ball, but doing it consistently is the problem.

[skins4eva]

In all seriousness, Gibbs sucks this time around in every phase of running a football team. He should fire himself. :mad:

Greg Williams is the leader of what is probably one of the worst defenses ever fielded in NFL history in terms making stops and helping the offense out with field position (i.e. TO's). Incredible. He should be fired right now with three games left. :mad:

If Al Saunders is really calling these idiotic plays on his own he should just go to the bar on Sundays and watch. He's out of touch with the team he is supposed to be coaching and what they're capabilities are. :mad:

I've been a Reskins fan for a long time and this Gibbs regime is the biggest farce I've seen yet. I truly believe that Norv's teams were run better. OMG. I can't believe I just said that!!!!! :doh:

That's probably the closest thing to the truth. What I'll say about Williams is I expect him to perform next year because his reputation is definitely on the line. This defense is historically bad--historically! That's really saying something. If we come out next year and perform like this, Williams can kiss any chance he has of being a head coach again goodbye.

Al Saunders, I think, is a good coordinator. I don't think he's been allowed to really implement his offense because Gibbs and his guys have hamstrung him.

[desertfox59]

In your worldview' date=' this board should clearly not exist...yet you have 50,000 posts.[/quote']

the funny thing is, a great many of his posts are links to articles where decussions by writers who have about as much insider info on redskins park as we do take place.

Bubba, what makes you think that these sports writers have anything or opinion better than us lowely fans have to say? I mean at least we are actually fans of this team. We care what happens. Why when we spectulate is it crap but when some article is released that speculates you glorify it by posting a link to it?

educate me on how you know who is doing their job and who is not, and what are failures on the field are the fault of coaching or the fault of the player?

Here's your education: whomever set the standards for execution fo the fundamentals of football, more specifically in the areas of openfield blocking and tackling, so low is the one who should be fired. Unless it's Gibbs. Then he should be taken aside by Snyder and told point blank, "Coach, before you do anything else with this team, you need to insure me that the execution of the fundamentals of blocking and tackling are imporved." If Gibbs doesn't get the message then fire him too. ( that hurts to say, I love Gibbs)

You - to a large degree - and Om - to a smaller degree - love to push this idea that pro football is quantum physics and that we lay people shall never understand it's mysteries.

What's disturbing is that' date=' in a very real sense, football is only "about" two things: Blocking and Tackling. Generally the team which does those two things better than the other wins the game....hardly quantum physics.

To be honest, I think QB coach is the most over-rated coaching position in any sport.

Sorry bro...your totally wrong here. QB's have the most responsibility and require the greatest skill set in the game of football, not only from the fundamental physiological side, but also the mental side. If you had to get rid of any position coach you had, QB coach would be the last one you would get rid of.

[CapitalDefense]

I agree that Jackson needs to be fired.

BUT who do you plan on replacing some of these guys with?

:logo:

No need to replace them, we have about 30 coaches, just rearrange the titles again. Most coaching staffs have 16-18 guys other then the HC, we have a few extra.

[Califan007 The Constipated]

The current structure of the staff seems very strange to me. I lived in Pittsburgh for a while so I know how that team is structured. And Cowher fires his coordinators at an amazing rate' date=' usually when they stray from his caveman way of thinking (which - to his credit - works).

This weird CEO structure of the Skins doesn't seem to work to me. You have Saunders with autonomy over the offense...except the line, because he have an assistant head coach there...and except inside the 20s, because Gibbs wants input there. And maybe not in choosing personnel, because the position coaches all have a say.

And he still have someone else with the title of offensive coordinator in Breaux.

Gibbs seems to have no say on the defense because Williams carries the lumber there. And - even then - he doesn't seem to be able to tell his position coaches how to structure meetings.

I've worked in enough business that were too top-heavy with executives. No decisions ever really get made. And on the rare occasions that they are made, nothing is executed.[/quote']

Interesting analysis...definitely got me thinking.

[skins4eva]

No need to replace them, we have about 30 coaches, just rearrange the titles again. Most coaching staffs have 16-18 guys other then the HC, we have a few extra.

We definitely need to cut down some of the dead weight...will it be done? That's the question.

[skinsman4u]

how exactly does anyone outside of Redskin Park know who deserves to be fired?

seriously?

Ouch ! Darn Bubba I felt that one way over here and I'm in Afghanistan. But yeah I hear you; If you're not in the club house, we (members) really don't know.

[pjfootballer]

I would like to see the coaching staff cut down to a managable size. You need the following:

Offensive Coord.

RB Coach

WR Coach

QB Coach

OL Coach

TE Coach

Def. Coord.

DL coach

LB Coach

Secondary Coach

Special Teams Coach.

That's it. No more. That way you don't have too many opinions and the safeties will meet with the CB's.

[Bryan81]

I would bring Charley Taylor back in to work with the WR's. Get rid of the QB coach & let Bruns work with the QB's. Breux doesn't bother me like he does others, so he can stay. Lindsay & Jackson definetly have to go.

[skins4eva]

Update to this thread:

Dale Lindsay is gone and our new LB coach has been promoted from within...what changes do people think we will see on the coaching staff between now and the beginning of the season? Anyone think Jackson is gone? Let's discuss.

[STstr8ballhawking]

FIRe jackson

jerry Gray is the highest rated DB coach in the game .so why dont we atleast let him take full controll of the DB's.Gray was a D Cord in buff ,his D was in the top ten too

[thinker]

Our best hope for any other changes is probably over now that the new HC's in the NFL have filled their staffs. We aren't going to fire anyone at this point given that we are close to getting into full gear preparation for next season.

[Bossman_SKins]

lol, i like the way you tell steven jackson hes fired. classic

[McD5]

I wonder if a fire Jackson website, with a petition that Skins fans can sign....forwarded onto the front office, would get the trick done. It certainly worked in the case of finally removing the pariah known as Jeff Bowden from the Florida State Seminoles organization. It might be time for fans to take matters into their own hands.

[skinsman4u]

Real Redskin fan here, and oh I agree and very good thread! But warning compliment is coming from skinsman4u a very undesirable member of this board. How do I feel about that? Good, I'm glad he hates me! But seriously, this is a good thread. Because I tell you, and don’t like revisiting it, but Seattle wore our butts out in the Divisional round playoff game in Seattle in 05. I mean absolutely no vision from our coaching booth. Our players were just as good and at some positions better. Their OL was more discipline which one could say better. But we had plays that we didn't make, and that's not on the coaches. But we didn't give them plays, like dropped INTs or busted plays on our defense. They just out coached us. NOT Coach Gibbs fault or those assistants on the side line. But the first TD that Seattle scored was a simply coached play based on vision and play calling adjustment to what they see There second TD was purely based on scheme.

That started the moment we beat TB and they started game planning on us. And that scheme while not exclusively oriented around Shaun Springs he was a talk of their offensive meetings. No, no not because he can't play but because he had been nursing that hammy all year. Yep, they new it and the 1st series they went after it, result deep completion down there sideline. Remember that when Springs fell steps behind? Yep, but after that deep completion I can still hear Seattle’s booth going yep got him its tweaked and still hurting ("as one of their coaches in the booth might have said hey Joe go back and count the steps Springs was behind on that completion").

"Oh my he's way out of it, as one coach probably said. Let's see if they (Redskins/ Us) leave him in for the remaining of the game. Okay they left him in. Joe go to work and come up with a scheme to see what adjustments we can make to suck him Springs in". "Coach Holmgren we got it" 2d and 9 goal to goal, send Stevens on a feint or curl in the middle to occupy SS, send wide out to play side (side that Hassle beck will roll to) on a skinny post toward back of end zone to occupy Springs on that side, play action Scobey (or whatever his name) to occupy Taylor and the OLB. Make sure Matt has a couple pumps to freeze Springs he'll be the closes man to the sideline (play side) tell Matt to roll and pump as he go then jet to the corner, he should be able to squeak in, and bam TD!" Okay Joe we'll give it a try in the 4th QTR. OL you got to get us there first." They (their OL) got them inside the ten and they went off to the Super Bowl that's coaching and making game time adjustments based on what you see.

What was our scheme or adjustment we didn’t have any? Oh we didn’t have any. Probably didn’t unfold exactly like the above but both TDs were based on coaching the right play call. I think they call it coaching the situation. What am I talking about? I don’t know just an opinion. I won't call any coaches names but Seattle was working our safeties and the play action. Not Sean’s or Ryan’s fault but they can't see everything and this is where coaching mainly comes into play and from the booth. You can't just walk on the field and expect magic to happen and win because you have a Jason Campbell, a Betts , a Cartwright, a Portis, a Thrash, a Cooley, a Sellers, a Lloyd, a Moss, a El, an Epps a Yoder is on your team. You still have to put people in a position to win and that's coaching, play calling and making adjustments. I wouldn't petition a firing on no one but unless we have some change in our coaching, we expect the same in 07 and that's no Super Bowl. Hell, we don't have an over powering OL and DL so it's going to take adjustments. Oh Griff can play but we don't have a 325 lb stuffer on the DL to keep Fletcher sideline-to-sideline. Salevea is the biggest I think at 310 but he was often hurt last year. What’s up with our OL? First eliminate the mistakes and then we can talk. Until then Clint do what you can and that's at the most playoffs. Oh Clint can take over and win 5 games but can we win 8 and get home field? Actually the fans can win all home games with all things considered, but are they willing to be standing every time the opposing team’s offense hits the field. I thought Lindsey was already gone?

[Jahbird]

Technically, "ax" has an "e" on the end. So the thread should read: Redskin Coaches who deserve the axE". Unlike the commercial and without the women.

[ChampSkinsFanatic]

Steve Jackson

[SkinsFTW]

There are still some good coaches out there not signed by anybody so since we seems to be a few short of our usual lineup:

We should sign Marty back to be the new defensive Coordinator since 14-2 wasn't quite enough he can join our 31st ranked D 5-11 club!!!

Demote Williams to coach the left side of the DL to give Blache a break and Jackson can be the guy who buffs out those nasty helmet scuff marks.

Gray should run all 4 of the starting DB's since he was a top DC all by himself in Buffalo recently but if not we could always hire Deion Sanders to teach them all how to tackle, he might even help Carlos catch a ball finally.

Also, we have so many coaches we can actually use them to our advantage. Jack Burns played Corner and Safety in the past, he's a little older than Brunell and looks even older than Gibbs himself but did anyone notice that we needed some help back there last year? Throw him in for a few plays. With our patented 13-15yd cushion he'll be fine and might actually catch a ball! Same with Breaux at QB. He could pull off the 3 yard flip just as well as Brunell.