Development of Dulles South shot down.

[PleaseBlitz]

After months of acrimonious debate, the Loudoun County Board of Supervisors rejected a proposal yesterday to open up 9,200 acres west of Dulles International Airport to high-density residential development.

The 6 to 3 vote ends plans for thousands of new homes in several large planned communities in a mostly rural area known as Dulles South, along Route 50 in southeastern Loudoun County. The vote also scuttles a proposal by George Mason University to build a campus in the area. GMU was depending on a gift of 123 acres from Greenvest, one of the developers poised to build in Dulles South, but that was rescinded with last night's vote.

"This was about creating a new suburban area, but at this time in Loudoun's existence, we can't afford it," said Supervisor Lori Waters (R-Broad Run). "We can't afford the cost. We can't afford the reduction to our quality of life, particularly regarding transportation."

The outcome delighted opponents who had said that the new residences -- ultimately as many as 33,800, according to county estimates -- would overwhelm an already inadequate road network and send county property taxes soaring to support new demand for services such as education and public safety. Current regulations would allow a total of only 4,600 residences to be built in Dulles South.

"It's a victory for the county," said Steve Hines, a resident of the area and member of the opposition group Families for Dulles South. "It shows that the board came back to the fact that we can't afford the dreams that somebody else had. The county will be better for it, and the taxpayer will be better for it."

Opponents also had said that the planned communities would ruin a part of the county known as the transition area, where small subdivisions with houses on one or more acres sit alongside farm fields and where current zoning rules protect the area as a visual buffer between Loudoun's dense suburban east and its rural west.

But developers and other supporters of the Dulles South blueprint said that the government has squandered an opportunity to exact hundreds of millions of dollars in infrastructure investment from developers, including for roads, schools and parks, in exchange for the right to build more housing.

Greenvest, which had proposed the most sweeping planned communities within Dulles South, had offered to build nearly $200 million in road improvements as well as a 200-acre sports and recreation complex south of Braddock Road. A large component of the proposals was the provision of affordable houses in a community where housing prices have skyrocketed in recent years.

"We . . . remain committed to building quality communities in Loudoun County," said Greenvest chief executive Jim Duszynski in a written statement. "We look forward to working with George Mason University, the Planning Commission, the Board of Supervisors and the county staff to work out a successful resolution that could bring, among other things, a world-class university campus, road improvements at no cost to the taxpayers and more affordably priced housing to Loudoun County."

In the end, supervisors were unconvinced of the proposal's value. A key piece of the Dulles South controversy was the debate over which scenario would be more costly to the county: "by-right development," in which developers build only the number of residences allowed under existing density regulations and are under no obligation to invest in infrastructure; or higher-density planned communities, in which the county allows more residences in exchange for such investment.

The debate even reached Gov. Timothy M. Kaine (D), who won Loudoun and Virginia overall last year on a message to give local governments more tools to make smart land-use decisions. Kaine angered developers -- and even some Loudoun supervisors who voted against the proposal last night -- by ordering the Virginia Department of Transportation to conduct a regional traffic study on Dulles South to test a new law he promoted requiring such studies when development is proposed.

The study's results, which predicted hours of gridlock on more than a dozen regional roads in Loudoun, Fairfax and Prince William counties 20 years from now, were hailed by Dulles South opponents.

Supporters criticized the methodology and accused Kaine of playing politics by meddling in local land-use decisions. They also said that the study did not clearly state which part of the new traffic would be the result of Dulles South. And they said that the study did not account for job growth in Loudoun nor for expanded transit services, such as a proposed Metrorail extension into the county, both of which would reduce traffic along commuter routes into Fairfax.

"The citizens are going to lose," said Supervisor Stephen J. Snow (R-Dulles), the proposal's leading booster on the board. "History is going to shame us. . . . I think there is a heavy tax burden to follow. I think the citizens of Loudoun County are going to have to pick up the slack for by-right development."

Still, even without factoring in increased transportation demands, a county staff analysis shows that by-right development in Dulles South would require about $216 million in new infrastructure, not including roads. The 9,200-acre proposal, in contrast, would have required more than $1.1 billion -- far more than what developers were offering to donate in exchange for more housing.

Said Supervisor James Burton (I-Blue Ridge), echoing the views of the majority:

"I believe that adding more houses to the transition area in the long run will make things worse."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/11/08/AR2006110802433_pf.html

Good for traffic and taxes, bad for job growth. Loundoun could really have used adding a college campus.

Where does everyone stand on the growth issue?

[LeesburgSkinFan]

From what I hear, Leesburg and points west in Loudoun want to form their own county (Catoctin) in order to stop the sprawl.

[PleaseBlitz]

From what I hear, Leesburg and points west in Loudoun want to form their own county (Catoctin) in order to stop the sprawl.

Yeah, the courts ruled 2 years ago that houses could only be built on 10 acre (i think) lots, which pretty much quashed the thoughts any builders had of developing that area. They wouldnt be able to turn a profit.

[DjTj]

Good for traffic and taxes, bad for job growth. Loundoun could really have used adding a college campus.

I could see how this development would definitely be bad for traffic, but why should it be bad for taxes? Won't more residences mean more property tax revenue?

Maybe the initial development costs will be higher, but as soon as people start moving in, that should make up the difference, right?

[PleaseBlitz]

I could see how this development would definitely be bad for traffic, but why should it be bad for taxes? Won't more residences mean more property tax revenue?

Maybe the initial development costs will be higher, but as soon as people start moving in, that should make up the difference, right?

Its a long run, short run thing. In the short run, taxes would have to pay for development of roads, schools, social services and all that. In the long run it would more than likely be a break even kind of thing. The county wouldnt be able to tax just that area to pay for past expenses.

[HOF44]

I could see how this development would definitely be bad for traffic, but why should it be bad for taxes? Won't more residences mean more property tax revenue?

Maybe the initial development costs will be higher, but as soon as people start moving in, that should make up the difference, right?

The estimates are an additional 1.1 Billion needed in infrastructure. The builders have offered 200 million. Generaly homes are a bad deal for a county in regards to taxes brought in versus services consumed. Bringing business in is much more productive in this regard.

[DjTj]

Its a long run, short run thing. In the short run, taxes would have to pay for development of roads, schools, social services and all that. In the long run it would more than likely be a break even kind of thing. The county wouldnt be able to tax just that area to pay for past expenses.

I always figured that's what bonds were for ... to put off the payments for later when the revenue comes in.

The estimates are an additional 1.1 Billion needed in infrastructure. The builders have offered 200 million. Generaly homes are a bad deal for a county in regards to taxes brought in versus services consumed. Bringing business in is much more productive in this regard.

I have heard this though - that residential development is generally a money loser because counties have to build schools, parks, roads, etc. and tax rates on residential property are much lower than commercial property. But it's kind of a chicken-and-egg problem, isn't it? You're not going to get commercial development until you get residential development.

[HOF44]

But it's kind of a chicken-and-egg problem, isn't it? You're not going to get commercial development until you get residential development.

I have somewhat of an inside view of developement in the region. The way it works now the developers pay way to little for the homes they are building. They reap a very large profit, and stick the county with the infrastructure bill for the most part. The pay proffers but its not nearly enough. You ask how could the lawmakers let this happen??? Try campaign donations. Also look into where some lawmakers end up working when out of office. This is not a condemnation of all lawmakers in the region, alot are standup people looking out for citizens. But not nearly enough. Then 10,15 years down the road you end up with a 30,000 home developement with gridlock and the builders are gone. Its all on the county/state then.

[Munchkin76]

If the builders and contractors want to build on the land, fine. But they should foot the cost for improved roads, more schools etc. The county residents - particularly the ones that have lived there all of their life, have already put their kids through school, or don't have children shouldn't have to have their taxes increase every damn year because of all these people moving in from all over creation.

And another thing, there should be a toll from Rt. 9 in West Virginia for those that tear up the roads running back and forth and also a toll from Clarke County into Loudoun as well. That would help with road expenses. Because those that live in WVA and Winchester are the ones clogging up the roads. They want the benefit of living in a cheaper area and Loudoun residents have to foot the bill. Ludicrous.

[Sarge]

Good for them. THe last thing they need in Loudon county is more transplant Yankees

[MurrayH81]

Out west here in Oregon, we have something called SDC fees. When builders want to build something (depending upon what it is, and the size of it), they have to deal with local, county and state SDC (Strategic Development Costs) fees to cover the infrastructure necessary for the addition.

A lot of people are thinking in terms of roads, but all utilities (water, sewer, electric, and sometimes gas) are also large costs that have to be addressed. Putting in a lot of houses is difficult, because it's not just the piping or lines that have to be dealt with, but the back end infrastructure necessary to create more potable water, treat sewage, generate and distribute power, etc.

All that has to take place before the houses are sold (I often see roads as the last thing being finished, but that toilet has got to flush pre-sale), and normally the money offered by developers doesn't even cover the overtime of the people trying to plan the infrastructure.

/hail:helmet:

[Munchkin76]

Good for them. THe last thing they need in Loudon county is more transplant Yankees

Unfortunately, lol, it's already overrun with them.

[Coooleeey]

Good, stop the growth in this area. I wish they would stand up to this in Fairfax county more. Enough is enough already.

[Midnight Judges]

Although I don't live in Loudoun, I agree with the decision. Traffic is already bad, and it ain't getting any better. $200 million is a lot for a developer to invest in roads but somehow I don't think that would make up for the added traffic.

Some of the developers in that area rub me the wrong way. Toll brothers will sell you a townhouse, but you don't technically own the outside of it, so they can tell you what you can and can't keep on your deck. The neighborhoods are pristine, but in terms of freedom you have little more control over your property than a renter.

I also find it suspect that the developers were against Governor Kaine doing a traffic study. What do they have to hide?

[PleaseBlitz]

I have somewhat of an inside view of developement in the region. The way it works now the developers pay way to little for the homes they are building. They reap a very large profit, and stick the county with the infrastructure bill for the most part. The pay proffers but its not nearly enough. You ask how could the lawmakers let this happen??? Try campaign donations. Also look into where some lawmakers end up working when out of office. This is not a condemnation of all lawmakers in the region, alot are standup people looking out for citizens. But not nearly enough. Then 10,15 years down the road you end up with a 30,000 home developement with gridlock and the builders are gone. Its all on the county/state then.

So knowing what you know, if you had been on the Board of Supervisors, would you have voted FOR or AGAINST the residential development of Dulles South?

[PleaseBlitz]

Some of the developers in that area rub me the wrong way. Toll brothers will sell you a townhouse, but you don't technically own the outside of it, so they can tell you what you can and can't keep on your deck. The neighborhoods are pristine, but in terms of freedom you have little more control over your property than a renter.

Dont get me started on this in this thread. But if you start a thread on HOA's, ill be certain to chime in. :redpunch:

[Munchkin76]

As a federal government employee, I generally take public transportation. On the rare occasion that I actually drive into the city (parking fees are ridiculous), I can leave work at 4:30 or 4:45 and move right through DC and the toll road with ease. Once I get right outside of Loudoun and into Loudoun, traffic is backed up to a standstill.

Loudoun, because of all of the developments and stop lights on 28 and 7, now has worse traffic that the Nation's Capital. Makes my blood boil.

[Boots]

It's good to see someone standup to control growth. Here in the Tidewater area we are nearing gridlock and all you see is an endless sea of suburban sprawl. I know the developers need to build to make an income, but thier has to be balance somewhere.

[HOF44]

So knowing what you know, if you had been on the Board of Supervisors, would you have voted FOR or AGAINST the residential development of Dulles South?

If I was on the board I would have voted against it without blinking an eye as it is currently structured. Its clearly a loser for the county with what the developers are now offering in the way of proffers. And the board members that voted for it, I would question there understanding of developement costs or there allegiance to builders over constituents.

[PleaseBlitz]

If I was on the board I would have voted against it without blinking an eye as it is currently structured. Its clearly a loser for the county with what the developers are now offering in the way of proffers.

I agree, though as a mortgage guy, I salivate of the thought of 33,800 potential loans sitting in my backyard.

Though the addition of that much inventory would depress property values all over, and im barely up in positive equity on my house as it is.

Traffic isnt much of an issue for me, I have a 5 minute commute to work and i live .5 mile from a Metro stop. You guys can all suffer so far as im concerned.

[HOF44]

I agree, though as a mortgage guy, I salivate of the thought of 33,800 potential loans sitting in my backyard.

The busineeses I am involved with have no stake in that development, but I agree, as an interested party there is a fortune to be made there. Kudos to the Louden board for having the integrity to stand up to what I know were alot of carrot and stick tactics that were probabaly used by the builders.

[ashburnskinsfan]

The "can't afford the infrastructure" issue is real for the county but one the developers can eliminate by increasing their proffers. In Eastern Loudoun County in a few years single family homes increased in price from less than $400k to over $600k. Builders costs did not increase that much. And they're probably selling the same houses just across the border in West Virginia for less than $300k. If Loudoun wants the development, why can't the developers use the huge increase in margin per home they get in Loudoun County to help fund the infrastructure?

Regarding traffic - the improvements to 28 have shown that with the right roads, volume can be handled. So if the new houses come with sufficient development contribution to fund transportation, schools and other infrastructure, I'm happy.

[HOF44]

Traffic isnt much of an issue for me, I have a 5 minute commute to work and i live .5 mile from a Metro stop. You guys can all suffer so far as im concerned.

I'm with you, my commute is 3 miles each way on side roads mostly. Its when I go to the game, or go shopping somewhere that it really hits me how bad some people have it.

[Destino]

They shouldn't be allowed to touch any tax revenue generated from new homes, communities, and businesses in NOVA for the next 20 years. They don't want to allow growth? Fine, but don't go to richmond begging for increased funding either.

Business have been moving farther away from the beltway and have created amazing economic conditions. If they don't want to be a part of that, let them keep their rural appeal - don't ruin it with wider roads or better schools.

[HOF44]

They shouldn't be allowed to touch any tax revenue generated from new homes, communities, and businesses in NOVA for the next 20 years. They don't want to allow growth? Fine, but don't go to richmond begging for increased funding either.

Business have been moving farther away from the beltway and have created amazing economic conditions. If they don't want to be a part of that, let them keep their rural appeal - don't ruin it with wider roads or better schools.

I must be dense today, cause I don't get what your trying to say here.

*edit* I get it after reading it again. Your talking about Loudoun County I presume. I think the big problem with this particular development is it would have cost alot more than it brought in to the county.