Campbell, McIntosh & Myth About Youthful Mistakes

[TheLongshot]

The problem for Gibbs is that he rarely if ever thinks changing the quarterback is a good idea in mid-season regardless of the Circumstances.

Certianly better than Spurrier's idea, which is to change your QB like your underwear.

Guess what? That's the attitude of most NFL coaches. Changing a QB is a very big change. It changes blocking schemes, the timing of receivers, the count at the line. It isn't something that should be made trivially.

BTW, you forgot about Stan Humphres, who he did stick with for 7 games even with him throwing 10 ints. (granted, Rypien was hurt, if I remember correctly.)

Also, there is Ramsey. That certainly turned out to be a good decision.

Jason

[Raub]

You can't handle the truth.

Truth is, Brunell made plays to try to win the game.

Brunell threw into quadruple coverage at the end of the game while Brandon Lloyd ran down the middle of the field.....with one on one coverage and a step on the DB.

We can get a rookie to do that.

How about some stats....

CP/AT YDS TD INT

V. Young 13/25 161 1 0

CP/AT YDS TD INT

M. Brunell 16/30 180 1 1

What exactly again is Brunell bringing that a rookie can't? Oh yeah....19 more yards and a INT. Excellent.

[bulldog]

I agree. Most of the time changing the quarterback doesn't change the overall result as football is a team game.

However, when your team is suffering through what most likely is going to end up being a non-playoff season and your quarterback is in his 14th season at some point you have to look to the future of your franchise and do what is best long-term.

I think finishing 6-10 or 7-9 with Jason Campbell getting significant time on the field is far better than finishing 8-8 or 9-7 with Mark Brunell taking 100% of the snaps and still be home at New Years watching the Giants and Eagles in the playoffs.

Remember, the goal in the NFL is winning the championship.

Are you looking at this team realistically and saying to yourself you are convinced that when this team is ready to win a championship Mark Brunell is going to be the quarterback? or for that matter that Warrick Holdman or Andre Carter are going to be starters on defense?

If the answer is 'no' then continuing with them if the team falls to 2-7 or 2-8 is just a waste of everyone's time.

[TheLongshot]

What exactly again is Brunell bringing that a rookie can't? Oh yeah....19 more yards and a INT. Excellent.

Also helps when you get 190 yards of rushing. That's the difference in the game, not any of the performances by the QBs.

Jason

[Ghost of]

Also helps when you get 190 yards of rushing. That's the difference in the game, not any of the performances by the QBs.

Jason

If Brunell can't make a difference then he's not worth much, is he? Especialyl when he makes rookie mistakes that his defenders continue to ignore in the greatest exercise of self-delusion since...well, I don't know when.

[Raub]

Also helps when you get 190 yards of rushing. That's the difference in the game, not any of the performances by the QBs.

Jason

If you convert 3rd downs, you keep their team off the field and they don't get 190 yards of rushing. You can keep claiming that Brunell doesn't have any fault, but you're wrong and your arguments frankly make you look a bit foolish.

[bulldog]

part of the reason that Lloyd, Cooley and ARE have limited catches so far is that Brunell is only throwing three or four routes with any regularity and two of them involve passes behind the line of scrimmage.

anyone who goes to these games and watches the spread of receivers and defensive backs down the field can't with a straight face tell me that it is the coverage schemes that are preventing the Redskins from making plays

[Killerbo]

part of the reason that Lloyd, Cooley and ARE have limited catches so far is that Brunell is only throwing three or four routes with any regularity and two of them involve passes behind the line of scrimmage.

anyone who goes to these games and watches the spread of receivers and defensive backs down the field can't with a straight face tell me that it is the coverage schemes that are preventing the Redskins from making plays

Maybe Longshot will :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[jambro]

Thing is, Leinert is basically doing the same thing as Brunell. He's dinking and dunking all over the place and depending on the WRs to make plays.

14 of 19 for 130 yard and 2 TDs. That is just the first half. That's Brunellesque for an entire game. Hell, 2 games.

:doh:

[hands11]

Great post, bulldog.

McIntosh and Campbell need to start seeing the field, if not starting on it.

Got post BDog. I would add a little more of a power game though. Sellers has earned the right to be a part of this offense. Running his goal line receptions like last year and also getting some runs. Rock has earned the right also.

We never should have let Clark go. nor Killings. Letting LaVar go was understandable but you replaced him with a draft pick. Play him.

[TheLongshot]

If you convert 3rd downs, you keep their team off the field and they don't get 190 yards of rushing. You can keep claiming that Brunell doesn't have any fault, but you're wrong and your arguments frankly make you look a bit foolish.

Where have I said that Brunell doesn't have faults? I never claimed he didn't.

But, it takes more than a QB to make first downs, and Campbell isn't going to make any fewer mistakes, more than likely.

Jason

[hands11]

Saunders seems to have a problem with all of our players. He doesn't seem to respect Portis' ability to handle the load at running back and be the focal point of the offense as he was in 2004 and 2005. He doesn't seem to like Campbell, believing it seems that he isn't quick enough or smart enough to pick up his system. He doesn't seem to think Chris Cooley is much beyond being a blocking tight end.

Exactly why did he take this job?

Certainly he knew from last year how the Redskins offensive personnel were performing. Certainly Gibbs and his staff gave Saunders a run down of the strengths and weaknesses of each player.

I was excited when I heard we got Saunders but now in hind sight understanding what he is doing and how the team has to adjust AGAIN, it was a bad decission. I would rather have Gibbs calling the offense.

[hands11]

Did you watch the team last year? I remember quite a bit of dink and dunk. I also remember people complaining about Patten not doing anything. Yet this year people are complaining about Randle El and Lloyd. Strange thing is, they've been open. So, we have a brand new offense and the exact same issues... hmm... what is the same between last year and this year? Oh yeah, that would be Brunell...

He is locking down on to few options. That was our complaint with Ramsey.

As his skill dwindle, he is looking more and more like Ramsey only he can throw shot and Ramsey could only hit throws over the middle. Maybe we can get one of the wacky science folks from Bugs Bunny to merge these 2 together.

[thedoc4454]

Remember when the defense was feared. Remember when they dominated other teams?

Let's be honest we scored enough points to win easily against theTitans. The Defense looked drugged, tierd, or drunk. This is where the changes need to be made. This is the second week in a row it looks like we're going to be responsible for sending an opposing running back to the hall of fame.

We got run all over, around, through, you name it. And that is why we lost.

Could Brunnell have done better? Sure! But---- Travis "Crazy Legs" Henry ran for 178 yards. CASE CLOSED!

What should the team do?

1. Get thier two starting tackles on the field

2. Start Mc Intosh. This will allow Dale Lindsay more time to take long hot showers with Holdman

3. Bring Robert McCune back to play middle linbacker and turn lavar Marshall into your third down linbacker ( I can hear the howls now, but this guy was the only one jacking people up in the pre-season. We need a monster in the middle. Marshal never was and never will be a 1st and 2d down MLB. McCune is as fast, much stronger, and hits like a train )

4. Start Evans at DE, Carter could look very good sitting on the bench

5. Start Rump at the third DB. Wright could sit next to Carter and play gin rummy

Will these changes solve the Redskins problems? I have no idea, but I know they won't make them worse, and could potentially make thing quite a bit better.

[joeknows]

Did you watch the team last year? I also remember people complaining about Patten not doing anything..

im going to answer your question with 2 questions

1) did YOU watch the team last year?

2) how many games did patten play?

[fansince62]

"anyone who goes to these games and watches the spread of receivers and defensive backs down the field can't with a straight face tell me that it is the coverage schemes that are preventing the Redskins from making plays."

man are you on a roll! that is exactly what I have seen. true...the blocking isn't picture perfect and MB is flushed from the pocket or has roll-outs designed into the play. but he simply isn't seeing the entire field. when he takes off he isn't looking down fiield until the last moment - and when he does his instincts are invariably to look to the sidelines because there is the safety valve of simply tossing the ball OB. that's not necessarily dumb football....but it is conservative to the point of missing several opportunities every game.

as bad as things look...I guess JG is operating on the assumption that the best in the NFC East only has a two game lead at this point. if the East teams beat one another up and a few losses outside the division happen then the Skins are still in it. but the Skins have to win to make a comeback and that just doesn't seem to be in the card at this point with our sked and performance issues.

question of the year: how can a team fall so fast after a dominating performance against a quality opponent like the Jags?

[joeknows]

i am really curious to see what everyone says if and when JC gets to play and he plays well. will the brunell supporters admit that maybe just maybe the decision was made late or will they try to say "see we told you waiting would be good for him" ?

[ceviker]

Bulldog, as always, fantastic post.

[hands11]

Remember when the defense was feared. Remember when they dominated other teams?

Let's be honest we scored enough points to win easily against theTitans. The Defense looked drugged, tierd, or drunk. This is where the changes need to be made. This is the second week in a row it looks like we're going to be responsible for sending an opposing running back to the hall of fame.

We got run all over, around, through, you name it. And that is why we lost.

Could Brunnell have done better? Sure! But---- Travis "Crazy Legs" Henry ran for 178 yards. CASE CLOSED!

What should the team do?

1. Get thier two starting tackles on the field

2. Start Mc Intosh. This will allow Dale Lindsay more time to take long hot showers with Holdman

3. Bring Robert McCune back to play middle linbacker and turn lavar Marshall into your third down linbacker ( I can hear the howls now, but this guy was the only one jacking people up in the pre-season. We need a monster in the middle. Marshal never was and never will be a 1st and 2d down MLB. McCune is as fast, much stronger, and hits like a train )

4. Start Evans at DE, Carter could look very good sitting on the bench

5. Start Rump at the third DB. Wright could sit next to Carter and play gin rummy

Will these changes solve the Redskins problems? I have no idea, but I know they won't make them worse, and could potentially make thing quite a bit better.

can we get Derek Smith back but seriously, do what you said and use Carter on 3rd down passing downs. Start your run stopper. Having Grif hurt and Spring out is killing us. PP getting hurt sucks. And loosing Clark was a bad decission. So was letting Killings go. Now look at the tackles we started. Killings was a solid player. Start Mack now. This team with Brunell starting was designed to win only if we had a great D and we make the wrong offseason decissions and cover for any injuries. That is why Brunells weaknesses are getting exposed. He isnt a difference maker. This D can do better with Springs back and us playing the right players and scheme but we screwed up in the offseason.

[TheLongshot]

Maybe Longshot will :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

Can't say that at all, because I can't see what is happening downfield on TV coverage. When at the game, there is only so much I can look at.

You'd have to ask the coaches and players if that's true. From what they are saying, they are covered deep by cover 2.

Jason

[jbooma]

Blame Saunders if you want but Matt Leinart, fresh out of college in a new system (I saw him trying to learn some of it on a special about young QBs in the NFL,) just went 6-6 and threw a TD pass against the BEARS DEFENSE.

Do I think JC is on Leinart's level? Perhaps not. Maybe the game gets away from him but I'm tired of the 'new system' excuses. It's new for Edge and for Leinart. Somehow they're doing OK.

They were also top 10 picks

[TheLongshot]

i am really curious to see what everyone says if and when JC gets to play and he plays well. will the brunell supporters admit that maybe just maybe the decision was made late or will they try to say "see we told you waiting would be good for him" ?

I guess then that we can't "win", unless Campbell plays badly.

Out of the gate, it probably wouldn't have started out any different, since it was pretty obvious early on that the offense was still trying to work things out.

Personally, it doesn't matter right now, because it isn't the QB that's making the difference in these games. It is the defense which can't get off the field.

Jason

[The Sisko]

Great post(s) Bulldog-we're seeing pretty much eye-to-eye. Where we part ways is that I'm thinking (hoping really, probably against all hope) that Gibbs' tepid non-endorsement of Boonell in the post game presser means he's either made the decision to start Campbell or to bench Scott sometime during the game and doesn't want Campbell to have to face a salivating Dolts defense.

As for Boonell's final intercepted pass, I'm still trying to figure out if that was a bad decision to pass to Moss or a horribly overthrown pass intended for Thrash. Given the fact that Scott is super smart, I just can't see him attempting a pass into coverage like that. Therefore, the more logical explanation is that the pass was intended for Thrash and it sailed on Scott...as several of his other pass attempts did yesterday.

Either way, it doesn't bode well for us if Boonell remains the starter.

[fansince62]

when push comes to shove...I'ld rather lose with the new QB than lose with the old QB. that's the bottom line.

[TheLongshot]

Great post(s) Bulldog-we're seeing pretty much eye-to-eye. Where we part ways is that I'm thinking (hoping really, probably against all hope) that Gibbs' tepid non-endorsement of Boonell in the post game presser means he's either made the decision to start Campbell or to bench Scott sometime during the game and doesn't want Campbell to have to face a salivating Dolts defense.

Well, unless there is a major change in who is #2, he isn't coming in in the middle of the game. If it is going to happen, it will happen after the Bye.

As for Boonell's final intercepted pass, I'm still trying to figure out if that was a bad decision to pass to Moss or a horribly overthrown pass intended for Thrash. Given the fact that Scott is super smart, I just can't see him attempting a pass into coverage like that. Therefore, the more logical explanation is that the pass was intended for Thrash and it sailed on Scott...as several of his other pass attempts did yesterday.

I don't know what happened there. In any case, it was a poor decision.

Jason