Calling Out Ramsey Bashers

[bulldog]

point me out a 'fan' that thinks the team should pull a rookie quarterback after one or two games, and I wlll show you a fan that truly lacks the patience to see a winning foundation laid here with the Redskins :mad:

if some of you want instant gratification, go follow the Yankees, who undoubtedly are about to turn over 40% of their roster for their unspeakable failure in losing in the divisional round of the baseball playoffs :laugh:

why bother to try and develop a quarterback when you can daydream about trying to make a fantasy trade for a Daunte Culpepper or to move up in the draft to take an Eli Manning :laugh:

why deal with reality at all?

Have a hole, sign a big name free agent. Hey, its worked great so far :shootinth

You can blame the Redskins for not doing some obvious things in the offseason such as truly solidifying the interior OL with proven performers AT THOSE SPOTS.

And you can also question why depth to replace 40 year old Bruce Smith at RDE was never acquired either.

But Ramsey is the best chance this team has to grow and become a true contender.

It may help some people clear their heads if they get their nose out of their rotisserie lineups long enough to get back to reality

[@DCGoldPants]

on the same note.

Imagine all the people who said Manning sucked his rookie year.

[Tarhog]

Amen brother

[Favre4MVP]

If the kid has talent and potential, keep him in there. Many people, including the Packers coaches, wanted to bench Favre and get rid of him. Holmgren was about to do it when Favre begged him for another chance. The rest is history.

[Fred Smoot Fan]

Patrick Ramsey is the only bright spot on an otherwise BAD football team. I hate to say this but we suck from top to bottom. We can't stop anyone on 3rd downs, Davis fumbles alot, our oline is non-existant and our WRs can't get open to save their lives(Gardner included).

[Luca Brasi]

Originally posted by Fred Smoot Fan

Patrick Ramsey is the only bright spot on an otherwise BAD football team. I hate to say this but we suck from top to bottom. We can't stop anyone on 3rd downs, Davis fumbles alot, our oline is non-existant and our WRs can't get open to save their lives(Gardner included).

I almost tried to reply to this with an educated response. But it's just not worth the time.

[thito_da_skins_fan]

Originally posted by Skins56

I almost tried to reply to this with an educated response. But it's just not worth the time.

:laugh:

[joe]

Funny that you should mention Favre, didn't Atlanta give up on him? Didn't Tampa give up on Steve Young? Seems to me that one bad quarter does not mean that the kid will have a bad career. Particularly when he did so much better in the second quarter. The fact remains that if the special teams had not given up those two TD's the skins could easily have won this game despite Ramsey's horrid first quarter.

[Art]

I may have missed it, but who was calling for the benching of Ramsey that led to the start of this thread?

[bulldog]

hey, if typically cautious and critical ole me has to be the voice of optimism on this board regarding Ramsey or the future of the younger players on this team, we are all in trouble

[Fred Smoot Fan]

I hope Spurrier doesn't make anymore moronic calls and bench Ramsey. We're not going anywhere this year with anyways so might as well play him. I'd also like to have Betts start at RB since SD (hopefully) isn't gonna be here next season he's a good back but his fumbling problem makes him pretty worthless.

[fansince62]

the key point with ramsey is do you risk permanent injury?!!! our O-line is playing so badly that it may be wiser to risk someone else's future - looking at it coldly.

[Lurman]

fansince62,

I would rather see Ramsey play spot duty, have him gradually step into the speed of NFL games. Its less risk of injury to Ramsey, and I think its less risk that he might lose confidence in himself this early in his career.

[Fred Smoot Fan]

Why would he lose his confidence? Its pretty obvious to everyone that it ain't PR's fault that our oline is worst in the NFL.

[bulldog]

Art, Diesel posted a note that Ramsey's performance against NO was the worst he had ever seen by a quarterback and surmised that one more poor performance should send Ramsey back to the bench.

That post got me to thinking about all the knee-jerk responses we have seen regarding needs at different areas of the team beyond the qb position, and I came to the not so brilliant conclusion that there are indeed enough fans out there that aren't willing to be patient for more than a couple of weeks for a coach or player to be successful.

That kind of short-time disease is what plagued the front office at times over the past 10 years and has caused us to add forgettable players such as Stubby, Deion and others while a concentration on making the draft and value free agency work for us could have produced much better results at a much better price.

I don't want to see the same thing happen at qb here. People were chiding Spurrier for thinking Wuerffel and Matthews could play here for the past two months (myself included ) and now it is time for ALL of us to take a pill and let the kid play.

[RiggoDrill]

Originally posted by Fred Smoot Fan

[i'd also like to have Betts start at RB since SD (hopefully) isn't gonna be here next season he's a good back but his fumbling problem makes him pretty worthless. [/b]

I made the same point about Davis two weeks ago, but I was derided for being "petty".

Nice guy, hard player, big heart, but the fumbles are a BIG problem, especially when NFL games can be decided on two or three key plays (or gaffes).

Big-time backs don't choke big-time, especially if they want to demand 10 million in cap space. Add to that the facts that Spurrier doesn't play smash mouth and that RB's are relatively easy to find in the draft, I think Davis is a goner.

[dchogs]

Add to that the facts that Spurrier doesn't play smash mouth and that RB's are relatively easy to find in the draft, I think Davis is a goner.

that doesn't even take into account that davis may not want to redo his contract and force us to release him. hell, i wouldn't be happy getting the rock 15 times a game as one of the best backs in the league. it takes two to dance. even if the FO wanted to get him back, i'm not sure he'd help us out.

[bulldog]

fyi folks, most running backs even good ones fumble the ball at times. The John Riggins or Jerome Bettis type players that fumble once in 350 carries are the anomaly.

Larry Brown fumbled the ball. Terry Allen fumbled the ball. Ernest Byner fumbled the ball. Joe Washington fumbled the ball.

And those are the best running backs the team has had over the past 30 years other than #44.

I don't necessarily have a problem with saying that Davis is asking for simply took much in a potential reworked deal to make it possible for the Redskins to match it.

What I DO have a problem with is the somewhat laissez-faire attitude of some fans that Davis can easily and comfortably replaced by an unheralded free agent like Kenny Watson or a guy like Betts that has been inactive more than he has been active in his short five game NFL career :laugh:

It ain't that easy to replace a multiple time pro bowler in his prime.

If Betts or Watson gets a chance to carry the ball down the road because of injury and PROVES to be a legitimate back from scrimmage than I may soften my judgments. But right now, these guys are no wall of granite to hang your hat on.

If Davis goes, he goes. But he won't be replaced like yesterday's newspapers.

[TheKurp]

I don't think that calling for Ramsey's benching necessarily means that you're bashing the guy.

I'll tell you this now. If Ramsey takes another beating like the one he took against the Saints, I'm all for pulling him and inserting Matthews. And if Matthews goes down, put in Wuerffel.

I'm willing at this point to believe that Ramsey is the long-term solution at QB.

But the damage to his body and perhaps his mental state if the offensive line can't afford him better protection isn't worth it if we're not going to contend for the playoffs this year. And I've seen nothing to indicate that we're not at least a year off from playing in the post season.

[bulldog]

Kurp,

if we follow your prescription Ramsey won't get any experience until the rest of the team is absolutely ready to bash down the gates to get to the Super Bowl.

Teams don't develop that way. Often the qb has to spend 1-3 years learning how to play at a high level.

And oftentimes they get roughed up in the process. Troy Aikman got battered in 1989 and 1990 in Dallas.

Joe Montana got bashed in 1979 and 1980.

Phil Simms got the crap beat out of him from 1979-83 before the Giants started to turn the corner.

You can't simply choose the exact moment to drop a player into the perfect situation.

The Redskins defense is not that far away from being a very good unit.

On offense, a reconstituted offensive line in 2003 WITH Ramsey having a year of experience under his belt can make this team very competitive.

Now, I agree that Spurrier has to make some adaptations based on the fact the line has injuries and is not providing consistent protection in the passing game.

Run the ball a little more. Throw some shorter passes to get Ramsey in a rhythm early in the game. Have Patrick operate more from the shotgun when the team is coming from behind and is in obvious passing situations. Leave the tight end in to block more often to give an extra chip on the edge, etc....................

[TheKurp]

As much as I hate to admit it, I actually agree with Daly of the Washington Times when he wrote in today's edition:

If you're going to start a rookie quarterback, you have to make the world around him as safe as possible. Otherwise he might not live — physically or spiritually — to be a second-year quarterback. It's part of the compact that exists between the QB and his coach. The rookie agrees to run the plays that are called, and the coach agrees to provide him with enough protection to execute those plays, even if it means scaling back the offense.

Two games into the Patrick Ramsey era, I'm not quite sure Steve Spurrier understands this. He says his objective is winning — and only winning — but it seems more important to him to win his way. And that means five-receiver sets and running backs running pass routes and quarterbacks, much of the time, having to chuck and duck.

This isn't what you'd call an ideal environment in which to raise a young QB. Young QBs need care and feeding and, most of all, time — time to learn, time to grow and, most crucial, time to look over the defense and decide what the heck to do with the ball.

When they were apprenticing, Jay Schroeder, Mark Rypien and Stan Humphries usually had that time — thanks to the Hogs, of course, but also thanks to a coach who never let his ego get in the way of sheltering his quarterback. How many times, even in Rypien's all-world season of '91, did we see Joe Gibbs send out three receivers and keep seven guys in to block? Granted, the receivers Gibbs was sending out were Art Monk, Gary Clark and Ricky Sanders (or maybe Earnest Byner), but that's almost beside the point. What Gibbs realized, to an extent many of his coaching brethren never did, is that it doesn't matter how excellent your X's are — or how outstanding your O's — if your QB can't get the darn pass off.

For every QB who later went on to become better than average after taking a beating in their rookie season, I'll name a dozen more who never made it because their confidence was shattered after being thrown to the wolves too early. Elway almost retired after his rookie season because he played poorly under difficult circumstances. Dan Reeves said he nearly destroyed Elway's career.

And those QBs you mention? Simms, Montana, and Aikman. Didn't they all retire because of too many concusions?

[BogeyMan]

I was at the game Sunday - a couple of times I thought the trainers were going to have to come out and peel Ramsey off of the FedEx field turf with a spatula:doh:

Ramsey is earning the respect of his coaches and teamates with his courage. If he can stay healthy, this will be his team to lead by week 12 of this season.

A couple of other observations:

"Chris Samuels" and Pro Bowl should not be used in the same sentence.

Redskins receivers are NOT getting open on a consistent basis. Lockett got open more than any other receiver. I love Chris Doerring's determination and great hands, but he just cannot get separation, even from #3 and #4 corners. I would rather see McCants get a shot at playing the #4 receiver - he is much more of a threat to stretch the field.

[bulldog]

well, Steve Young ended up with a lot of concussions too and he didn't become a starter until he was 27 or 28 years old

besides, ALL those quarterbacks played deep into their 30's so how did it shorten their careers?

Montana played until 39. Elway until 40. Young until 38. Marino until 38. Simms until 37. Even Aikman played until he was 34 or 35.

Again, I don't disagree that a max pro scheme would be a good idea on sure passing downs to protect the qb, but benching Ramsey and playing others until you put together a pro bowl line across all 5 positions is a bit extreme.

Besides, in the era of free agency you can't keep a great line intact for that long a period.

Just ask Daunte Culpepper who had THREE linemen in the pro bowl his rookie season and all THREE are gone in 2002

[RiggoDrill]

Originally posted by bulldog

fyi folks, most running backs even good ones fumble the ball at times. The John Riggins or Jerome Bettis type players that fumble once in 350 carries are the anomaly.

Larry Brown fumbled the ball. Terry Allen fumbled the ball. Ernest Byner fumbled the ball. Joe Washington fumbled the ball.

And those are the best running backs the team has had over the past 30 years other than #44.

I don't necessarily have a problem with saying that Davis is asking for simply took much in a potential reworked deal to make it possible for the Redskins to match it.

What I DO have a problem with is the somewhat laissez-faire attitude of some fans that Davis can easily and comfortably replaced by an unheralded free agent like Kenny Watson or a guy like Betts that has been inactive more than he has been active in his short five game NFL career :laugh:

It ain't that easy to replace a multiple time pro bowler in his prime.

If Betts or Watson gets a chance to carry the ball down the road because of injury and PROVES to be a legitimate back from scrimmage than I may soften my judgments. But right now, these guys are no wall of granite to hang your hat on.

If Davis goes, he goes. But he won't be replaced like yesterday's newspapers.

Bulldog-

I agree with you that assuming Watson, Betts or Cartwright can step right in is silly.

But the fact is that in one year's time, Davis has choked up the ball at least 3 times when we really needed him to step up: when we were up 7-6 in Dallas in 2001, in the first drive in SF two weeks ago, and on the third drive vs. NO.

It wouldn't be a cinch to replace Davis, but it's certainly feasible through the draft or FA. Think Tomlinson in SD, the Faulk trade to STL, or the Williams trade to MIA, etc. etc.

It's not too say he wouldn't be missed, but this team has a lot of needs, and we may not need to spend $10 million on a power back for a non-power-running team, especially if he consistently can't be counted on to protect the ball.

[bulldog]

no, I agree with you that if we could find a CAPABLE replacement than that would reduce my uneasiness

but those are major moves that you are talking about. The Faulk trade and the Williams trade, how often do these types of deals come along for players at age 26 or 27 in their primes?

see anyone out there comparable that may become expendable?

If the Redskins were looking for a player that seems to fit the bill here for THIS offense I would have moved up and taken Clinton Portis from Miami in the draft in the second round.

He appears to be the type of two way threat that would thrive here. And he appears more ready to play right away