Pete Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Today, one of my regular customers bike was towed in. 2005 Triumph Rocket III with under 8K miles. I had replaced a camshaft chain tensioner on the bike about 700 miles ago. He told my manager that the bike made a noise, stalled, and would not restart. He said he thought that the tensioner might have gone bad again, so he said he removed the "big" bolt, saw the chain in place, and put the bolt back in. I hit the starter button, and the engine spun extremely fast. I knew it had no compression. I confirmed it by doing a test with a compression guage. With a bit of tare down, I found the camshafts severely off timing. It was also easy to see that it had bent valves, ten out of twelve. :doh: This customer figures we're not smart enough to figure out what happened. There is no possable way for the cams to go out of time if the chain doesn't brake, or the cam chain tensioner is in place. When you remove the tensioner, the cams jump and we use a special holding device to set them up and install the chain and tensioner to achive the proper timing. Mr Fix-it took it uppon himself to remove the tensioner, causing the cams to jump. He then put it back in, and tried to start the engine :doh: :doh: causing the pistons to hit the valves, bending all but two. If the monkey didn't grab a wrench, he wouldn't be looking at a major repair that I can't cover under warranty. If the head is damaged, and can't be repaired, the blank casting is 1460.oo alone. The valves go for 45.oo each, and a gasket set is over 350.oo . Add labor of about 8 hours @ 75.oo, and some other goodies like oil and coolant, and add sales tax........... we're talking 3100.oo estimated repair costs. I haven't pulled the head off the engine yet, and there could be even more damage. There could be a hole in a piston top, which means I have to tare down the entire engine. This guy could be looking at a 5K repair once I finish my tare down and estimate. I'm going to shoot this guys weekend down the crapper tomorrow, and to be honest, I like the guy and hate to have to do it. The moral of the story. Dont mess with stuff you don't have a clue about, it could cost ya big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjcdaman Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 You sound a little happy. At least it's more money for you, right? Either way, I agree. He had a friggin' warranty and chose to take it upon himself to see what was wrong. :doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted September 9, 2006 Author Share Posted September 9, 2006 You sound a little happy. At least it's more money for you, right? Either way, I agree. He had a friggin' warranty and chose to take it upon himself to see what was wrong. :doh: I admit I'm a little happy. I don't have to kill myself to do it within warranty time allowed. It does mean more money for the shop. I'm not a flat rate Tech, so I make the same money no matter how fast or slow I get it done. Note: there's a newbie with the same sig as yours on the board. Figured you might like to know Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Note: there's a newbie with the same sig as yours on the board. Figured you might like to know i think it should be forcibly removed. all in favor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjcdaman Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 i think it should be forcibly removed. all in favor? Of course, I am. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Customers. I repair computers. When people bring the unit in for repair, we ask them to fill out a form, with name, phone number, and a section labled "describe problem". Often, when I get the system and the peperwork, I discover that the customer has interpreted this seaction as "State your diagnosis of the problem". I get things like "Hard Drive". I keep swearing I'm going to re-do the form, and replace "Describe Problem" with "When I do _____, it does ______". On a similar note: Our minimum diagnostoc charge is $36, for a half hour. After that, it's $56/hr. I've jokingly said I'd like to replace "Describe Problem" with: When I do _____, it does _____. ($36) So then I did _____, and now it does ______ ($56) So then I did _____, and then it did _____ ($84) . . . . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DeanCollins Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Note: there's a newbie with the same sig as yours on the board. Figured you might like to know who you calling a newbie? ______________________________ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cjcdaman Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 who you calling a newbie? ______________________________ :rotflmao: I think Dean was going to hook me up with some tix at some point last year so I cannot fault him. :notworthy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
iheartskins Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Larry, I suggest, as your de facto counsel, that you utilize the form you mention. I guarantee you'll get good results. I don't think I've ever described a form as pithy before, so yours is the first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ax Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 I've jokingly said I'd like to replace "Describe Problem" with: When I do _____, it does _____. ($36) So then I did _____, and now it does ______ ($56) So then I did _____, and then it did _____ ($84) . . . . You left out... So then I took my Louisville Slugger and beat the mother ****er into this here bag of dust. Can you transfer my files onto the new computer you just sold me? :dunce: Priceless! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PokerPacker Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 Customers. I repair computers. When people bring the unit in for repair, we ask them to fill out a form, with name, phone number, and a section labled "describe problem". Often, when I get the system and the peperwork, I discover that the customer has interpreted this seaction as "State your diagnosis of the problem". I get things like "Hard Drive". I keep swearing I'm going to re-do the form, and replace "Describe Problem" with "When I do _____, it does ______". On a similar note: Our minimum diagnostoc charge is $36, for a half hour. After that, it's $56/hr. I've jokingly said I'd like to replace "Describe Problem" with: When I do _____, it does _____. ($36) So then I did _____, and now it does ______ ($56) So then I did _____, and then it did _____ ($84) . . . . how about this? "Describe Problem": sex:_______ ______ft. tall _______ colored hair _______ pounds ______ years old :laugh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swaroopm Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 If the monkey didn't grab a wrench, he wouldn't be looking at a major repair that I can't cover under warranty. If the head is damaged, and can't be repaired, the blank casting is 1460.oo alone. The valves go for 45.oo each, and a gasket set is over 350.oo . Add labor of about 8 hours @ 75.oo, and some other goodies like oil and coolant, and add sales tax........... we're talking 3100.oo estimated repair costs.I haven't pulled the head off the engine yet, and there could be even more damage. There could be a hole in a piston top, which means I have to tare down the entire engine. This guy could be looking at a 5K repair once I finish my tare down and estimate. I'm going to shoot this guys weekend down the crapper tomorrow, and to be honest, I like the guy and hate to have to do it. Just curious - how much would it have cost him if he had not tried to do the work himself? Nothing, because it was under warranty? A $5K mistake is quite a mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted September 9, 2006 Author Share Posted September 9, 2006 Just curious - how much would it have cost him if he had not tried to do the work himself? Nothing, because it was under warranty? A $5K mistake is quite a mistake. Your pretty much spot on. The warranty would have covered what ever caused the bike to stall out on him. We have had some instances of these bikes getting a poor idle, and stalling on deceleratioon. My guess is that's what happened, and it could have been cured in less then 10 minutes. Even if the original problem was more then that, the damage to the top end would not have happened. I'm going to contact the factory guys on this situation on tuesday. I want to confirm that they have had no cases of this happening, and that it is not possable to happen without the tensioner being removed. Also, the factory may want to still cover the job, or part of it as good will. Time will tell. I may not have time to finish tareing down the engine today. Saturday is out busiest day at the shop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The 12th Commandment Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 :twitch: I am going to look all of you in the face (figuratively) and tell you I've never done anything like this. Never I tell you. I always leave well enough alone. :doh: Not. I am a lot better than I used to be, but its costed me over the years. More than I would care to think about or admit. :laugh: You gotta understand...we can't help it. It's an urge to fiddle that is uncontrollable. The only cure is large amounts of money thrown away. Ouch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seabee1973 Posted September 9, 2006 Share Posted September 9, 2006 how about this?"Describe Problem": sex:_______ ______ft. tall _______ colored hair _______ pounds ______ years old :laugh: and you left out What site did you find her on? Think she really looks like that in person? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pete Posted September 9, 2006 Author Share Posted September 9, 2006 :twitch: I am going to look all of you in the face (figuratively) and tell you I've never done anything like this. Never I tell you. I always leave well enough alone. :doh: Not. I am a lot better than I used to be, but its costed me over the years. More than I would care to think about or admit. :laugh: You gotta understand...we can't help it. It's an urge to fiddle that is uncontrollable. The only cure is large amounts of money thrown away. Ouch. Do me a favor and move to Lee county Fl, and start riding a Triumph or BMW :laugh: UPDATE :laugh: I was able to finish the tare down today, and just have to do some through cleaning and close inspection. This dude may get lucky. Though he did actually bend all 12 valves, the pistons and the cylinder head look to be ok on initial inspection. I have to get out my big magnifying glass and take a real close look. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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