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Lloyd Stat sheet

illone

By illone
in The Stadium

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XxSpearheadxX

XxSpearheadxX

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He had 4 official drops last year. That counts all catchable balls that he didn't catch, whether he actually touched them or not. Like the other guy said, he wasn't even one of the worst 25 in the NFL last year, guys like TO were. And TO only played half a season.

It does NOT count uncatchable balls that he uses his superior athletic talent to try and catch and then fail. Kinda like how a made shot with a foul in basketball counts as a made shot, but if you miss it doesn't count as a miss.

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MRMADD

MRMADD

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The truth about Brandon Lloyd: he was targeted 109 times. He caught 48 balls. That's a lousy 44% completion rate. You thought 50/50 was bad? Of course, he had bad quarterbacks, so that's not all his fault. How much of it was his fault? Well, you gotta go to the film for that.

Santana Moss, by comparison, had a 63% completion rate (84 catches on 134 targets). You shouldn't pay too much attention to the 'drops' statistic, which would make you thinkt that Moss, with 8 drops, is one of the worst receivers in the league.

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SWFLSkins

SWFLSkins

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The truth about Brandon Lloyd: he was targeted 109 times. He caught 48 balls. That's a lousy 44% completion rate. You thought 50/50 was bad? Of course, he had bad quarterbacks, so that's not all his fault. How much of it was his fault? Well, you gotta go to the film for that.

Santana Moss, by comparison, had a 63% completion rate (84 catches on 134 targets). You shouldn't pay too much attention to the 'drops' statistic, which would make you thinkt that Moss, with 8 drops, is one of the worst receivers in the league.

Don't know if this is fair or not, I mean "targeted"? How accurate were the balls that were thrown to him. It reminds me of a tape on Brunell last year where the announcer made mention Brunell awful game, then they showed a ball being tipped up and intercepted. Was that really Brunells fault? No. So really I want to see Llyod in a decent system and with a team he likes.

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XxSpearheadxX

XxSpearheadxX

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The truth about Brandon Lloyd: he was targeted 109 times. He caught 48 balls. That's a lousy 44% completion rate. You thought 50/50 was bad? Of course, he had bad quarterbacks, so that's not all his fault. How much of it was his fault? Well, you gotta go to the film for that.

Santana Moss, by comparison, had a 63% completion rate (84 catches on 134 targets). You shouldn't pay too much attention to the 'drops' statistic, which would make you thinkt that Moss, with 8 drops, is one of the worst receivers in the league.

How many of those 109 balls were deemed catchable? He had one of the best catchable ball rates in the NFL last year.

I agree on the "drops" because you need the uncatchable balls taken out of it, and believe me Santana went for some uncatchable ones last year.

You've got to take out the uncatchables and put in the alligator arms etc. to get the accurate ratings, there are a couple sites that do that and people have definately posted them here before, but thats not really my thing.

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MRMADD

MRMADD

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only 4 drops not bad

Bull****. Let me ask you this: where do you get your "drops" statistics? The NFL doesn't track drops. Stats Inc. does track "drops", but it's a totally subjective stat. What I call a drop you might call an uncatchable ball.

So "drops" are not a good measure of a receivers performance. Santana Moss had 8 drops. That makes him the 8th worst receiver in the NFL in that category. Now tell me: does Moss have bad hands?

There's something wrong with a statistic that tells you the opposite of the truth.

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ouvan59

ouvan59

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Bull****. Let me ask you this: where do you get your "drops" statistics? The NFL doesn't track drops. Stats Inc. does track "drops", but it's a totally subjective stat. What I call a drop you might call an uncatchable ball.

So "drops" are not a good measure of a receivers performance. Santana Moss had 8 drops. That makes him the 8th worst receiver in the NFL in that category. Now tell me: does Moss have bad hands?

There's something wrong with a statistic that tells you the opposite of the truth.

Ummmmmm, they don't track the % of passes thrown to him that were caught either but you seem to think that it means something? Why, because it says something negative which is pretty much all you ever cling to.

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CoachingWinsChampionships

CoachingWinsChampionships

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Bull****. Let me ask you this: where do you get your "drops" statistics? The NFL doesn't track drops. Stats Inc. does track "drops", but it's a totally subjective stat. What I call a drop you might call an uncatchable ball.

So "drops" are not a good measure of a receivers performance. Santana Moss had 8 drops. That makes him the 8th worst receiver in the NFL in that category. Now tell me: does Moss have bad hands?

There's something wrong with a statistic that tells you the opposite of the truth.

I wouldn't say that drops are the "opposite of the truth." They certainly are not extremely acurrate, nor entirely objective. They definitely should be paired with a stat like how many times he was targeted or how many "catchable"(I know) passes he had thrown his way. One thing about your "completion percentage" stat (which i know you did very heavily qualify with your "see the gametape" comment). That stat obviously does depend on the QB like you said, but it does also say something about the receivers ability to get open, unlik the drops metric. I agree with you though that gametape is the real evaluation when it comes to coaching decisions, but these stats are very useful for us fans. They're not always right, but as Mark Twain once said, "Facts are stubborn things, but statistics are more pliable." Eagles fans need these stats so they can argue that Reggie Brown is actually better than Santana Moss. ;)

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MRMADD

MRMADD

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Ummmmmm, they don't track the % of passes thrown to him that were caught either but you seem to think that it means something? Why, because it says something negative which is pretty much all you ever cling to.

Yes, they do. And stop crying, you're getting my laptop all wet.

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MRMADD

MRMADD

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I wouldn't say that drops are the "opposite of the truth." They certainly are not extremely acurrate, nor entirely objective. They definitely should be paired with a stat like how many times he was targeted or how many "catchable"(I know) passes he had thrown his way. One thing about your "completion percentage" stat (which i know you did very heavily qualify with your "see the gametape" comment). That stat obviously does depend on the QB like you said, but it does also say something about the receivers ability to get open, unlik the drops metric. I agree with you though that gametape is the real evaluation when it comes to coaching decisions, but these stats are very useful for us fans.

Yeah, evaluating receivers is tough. Did he run the right route? Did the QB throw it over the wrong shoulder and the receiver made a miraculous turn but dropped it? That's why drops are so tough. If Brunell throws the ball to the wrong spot but Moss adjusts and barely misses it off his fingertips, that's a "drop" statistically.

And, of course, if the QB throws the ball to the right spot, but the receiver turns the wrong way and the ball gets picked off, that's still an interception. No one ever puts an asterisk next to it.

But you're right -- stats are better than nothing.

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JetSkins

JetSkins

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The truth about Brandon Lloyd: he was targeted 109 times. He caught 48 balls. That's a lousy 44% completion rate. You thought 50/50 was bad? Of course, he had bad quarterbacks, so that's not all his fault. How much of it was his fault? Well, you gotta go to the film for that.

Santana Moss, by comparison, had a 63% completion rate (84 catches on 134 targets). You shouldn't pay too much attention to the 'drops' statistic, which would make you thinkt that Moss, with 8 drops, is one of the worst receivers in the league.

surprised he caught that much with Alex behind center last season

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[[ghost]]

[[ghost]]

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He had 4 official drops last year. That counts all catchable balls that he didn't catch, whether he actually touched them or not. Like the other guy said, he wasn't even one of the worst 25 in the NFL last year, guys like TO were. And TO only played half a season.

It does NOT count uncatchable balls that he uses his superior athletic talent to try and catch and then fail. Kinda like how a made shot with a foul in basketball counts as a made shot, but if you miss it doesn't count as a miss.

Ahh, thanks for that in depth explanation. I really enjoyed the comparison between Dropped Balls and And One shots (is that what they're called?)

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[[ghost]]

[[ghost]]

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NFL Leaders in Passes Not Caught (Thru games of Jan. 1, 2006)

1 Plaxico Burress NYG 90

2 Chris Chambers Mia 84

3 Muhsin Muhammad Chi 72

4t Anquan Boldin Ari 69

4t Joey Galloway TB 69

6 Jerry Porter Oak 66

7 Randy Moss Oak 64

8 Larry Fitzgerald Ari 62

9t Torry Holt StL 61

9t Brandon Lloyd SF 61

Where the hell did you get those stas? I'm not doubting you, I'm just wondering how Lloyd could have not caught 61 passes, then only drop 4. Do those passes include passes thrown his way that were broken up or over/under thrown?

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ArmchairRedskin

ArmchairRedskin

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]']Where the hell did you get those stas? I'm not doubting you' date=' I'm just wondering how Lloyd could have not caught 61 passes, then only drop 4. Do those passes include passes thrown his way that were broken up or over/under thrown?[/quote']

They don't specify the circumstances around which the incomplete ball came came about. It's just a number of targets less the number of catches.

For instance Burress, was a target 166 times and he didn't catch 90 balls. That leaves his reception total at 76.

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/leaders.asp?year=P&type=NFL+Receiving&rank=107&Submit=Go

LLoyd is keeping some pretty good company on that list, huh?

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illone

illone

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LLoyd is keeping some pretty good company on that list, huh?

I looked even further to validate a point on another board....

Looking at some of the other receivers who struggled in the same category (% passes caught) I also took a look at the QBs on those respective teams.

Here is what I cam up with:

Plaxico Burres 45%

Chris Chambers 49%

Muhammed 47%

Randy Moss 48%

Jerry Porter 53%

Brandon Lloyd 44%

Here are the QBs that coincide with the above players. Below is pass completion %.

Kerry Collins 53%

Gus Frerotte 52%

Eli Manning 52%

Kyle Orton 51%

Rex Grossman 51%

Alex Smith 50%

Ken Dorsey 53%

Just for poops and giggles I investigated Randy Moss' numbers. I found it hard to believe that he was on this list as many regard him as one of the best WR in the game right now. In 2003 Moss was still with Minnesota and had Culpepper at QB who was 65% accurate on his passes that year. His passes caught % that year was 64.5%.

Coincidence? I think not.

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illone

illone

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Looking at Plaxico Burress #'s I am able to further illustrate this point.

In 2004 Burress had Ben Roethlisberger a 66% completion QB. Burress caught 58% that year. Fast fwd to 2005 where Burress had Eli Manning a 52% QB throwing it and now he's at 45%.

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