Monkskin81 Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 I did a brief search and to be honest I'm not really sure if I did it correctly or where I'm supposed to post certain topics, so if this has been covered than get rid of it, that being said... It bothers me that fans from other teams try to say that we "overpaid" for this guy and that guy etc. Because the way I see it, it shouldn't matter to them. How do they know that we overpaid someone if these players haven't played a down for the Skins yet? we don't even know and we as fans we know our team better than any Giants fan or Cowboys fan. If our owner wants to spend his money (and lots of it) on certain players than why should it bother them so? it's not their money and it's not their team. I feel as though they're too caught up in what our team is doing, they're worried about us. Is it jealousy? Maybe. It could be that they want their team to spend big bucks, it's security. If we hadn't paid what we did for the players we've acquired, then we might not have acquired them at all. Of course most players want money and if we can use it to help coerce players to come to our team instead of rivals or others for that matter, then we should do it. We paid a lot of money for strong, great, key football players. WE convince ourselves that it's for the best and it might not be, but as Redskins fans we are supposed to be optimistic. We RULE! Hail to Them! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhutanibeast Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 good point. If anyone overpaid, its dallas. 3 year, 25 million for the team trasher. The only overpaying we ever did was 7 year 43 million to Brunell. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paredskinsfan Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 Why waste your time worring about what other fans think????And yeah that search feature sure is tricky:doh: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxSpearheadxX Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 One thing many of those rock throwers don't realize: The Redskins have revolutionized the management of the salary cap - to the point that it was addressed in this past year's CBA. We structure our deals with more guaranteed money in a way that a contract that we sign that may be 30% over what another team (say the Bears in ARE's case) might offer but it affects our cap in a similar way. To make this work we need to keep players happy with the best coaches and facilities and fan base. That we have since Gibbs' return. Players like Brunell, Moss and Portis (and now Archuleta and Carter and ARE) just push their bonus money back and back each year and will either get it when they 1) retire 2) get cut or traded. They also often can earn interest on this and invest with loans - it is equity in the same way a house is. Brunell has a huge contract, but almost none of it touches our cap and he will get paid most of it the day he retires a redskin. Hopefully the same will happen with Portis and Moss. If a player wants to leave the optimal situation is what occured with Lavar, they make a choice to negate a part of the contract they agreed to get on the Free Agent market sooner (didn't work out real well for #55 - hey thats what you get when you think you are better than you are.) The only time this has bitten us in the ass over the last 4 years has been the Toe Coles contract in that trade, but since the trade would have still been worth it with a #2 or #1 draft pick thrown in after the fact because of Moss finally hitting his stride - one can't really be upset. This is the first year that I think some of the analysts are starting to understand that as long as we keep our players happy there will be no "Cap Hell". The thing that gets me is when ex players like Sharpe on the NFL network are upset that we "overpay" for players like Archuleta (who he couldn't stop drooling over the last 2 years until *we* signed him) when they were players themselves and you'd think they would want the best for other players. So the next time fans say that to you just tell them "Don't complain to me, complain to your cheap, mismanaged, stuck in the mud, *so* last week Front Office to get with the times" Like the Ed Reed thing in Baltimore, the problem is not Archuleta got such a huge contract, its that the Ravens even think for a second they shouldn't give Reed a raise and will complain about Cap Space. Well the thing is, the Redskins let players like Ryan Clark, Freddie Smoot and Antonio Pierce go because they refuse to pay players more money than another player who plays a similar position but is better. Makes sense to me anyway. Not to mention, half of the guys our own fans whine about losing were UDFAs anyway and we have one of the most promising late round drafts/ Undrafted Free Agent classes in a while.:helmet: :logo: :point2sky Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GoDannyBoy Posted June 9, 2006 Share Posted June 9, 2006 It is like signing your own guys to contract extensions. It will only be overpaying when we don't sign our own to contract extension and they go elsewhere for a lot of money. Pierce might be an example because we signed him to a one year deal and he turned out to be pretty good. Plus we wasted a lot of money on Barrow. So I think they have learned and hope we keep our "core" together for a long time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swaroopm Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 One thing many of those rock throwers don't realize: Nice post XxSpearheadxX. I think one way the Redskins have "stayed ahead of the game" and avoided the "cap hell" that so many have predicted is that the Redskins have assumed that the salary cap will increase each year and have incorporated that into their planning. The Redskins have been able to absorb certain salary cap hits later in contracts, when the cap is bigger and the hits can be absorbed more easily. Assuming no one had agreed to restructure (not the case), the Redskins might have gotten burned if the CBA expired this year and the salary cap did not go up (since the Redskins were counting on it going up). In fact the salary cap went up by a huge amount, and everything worked out fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DWinzit Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 When I hear the Skins overpay or there goes Snyder again, I think JEALOUS!:logo: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skins4481 Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 5yrs 15 million and a 5 million dollar SIGNING BONUS for a journeymen Guard who the Lions didnt want is overpaying. Next time a Cowboys fan opens his mouth, think of Kyle Kosier's contract and smile DWinzit, you're post above mine was #645 for you and my post right below yours was #646. Creepy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onedrop Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 ANY amount is overpaying if you dont get a return on your investment. if you can afford the price and your investment pays big dividends then you are making a profit. as Joe Gibbs said, any team could do what we do, they just choose not to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
atloldskin Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 First, the only player we might have overpaid for was Randle-El. But when he returns a kick or a punt and changes the game, what is that worth? If he does it twice in one year? A two game swing in the NFL is worth millions. I think the Redskins underpaid for Brandon Lloyd. Despite the lack of focus by the media, this guy will prove to be a steal! Finally, if I were Dan Snyder I would do exactly what he is doing--let Joe Gibbs and Company make the player personnel decisions and help them in any way possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skinny21 Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 First, the only player we might have overpaid for was Randle-El. But when he returns a kick or a punt and changes the game, what is that worth? If he does it twice in one year? A two game swing in the NFL is worth millions.I think the Redskins underpaid for Brandon Lloyd. Despite the lack of focus by the media, this guy will prove to be a steal! Finally, if I were Dan Snyder I would do exactly what he is doing--let Joe Gibbs and Company make the player personnel decisions and help them in any way possible. Yep, with Gibbs on board the Snyder trashing should finally come to a close. It will only be overpaying if we don't make it to Miami! In terms of Barrow(and Trotter for that matter) does anyone else think we maybe should have kept them around for 1 more year? Not that I was a big fan, and I don't know the salary cap ramifications, but give 'em a chance (sort of like Patten this year) Am I crazy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxSpearheadxX Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Nice post XxSpearheadxX.I think one way the Redskins have "stayed ahead of the game" and avoided the "cap hell" that so many have predicted is that the Redskins have assumed that the salary cap will increase each year and have incorporated that into their planning. The Redskins have been able to absorb certain salary cap hits later in contracts, when the cap is bigger and the hits can be absorbed more easily. Assuming no one had agreed to restructure (not the case), the Redskins might have gotten burned if the CBA expired this year and the salary cap did not go up (since the Redskins were counting on it going up). In fact the salary cap went up by a huge amount, and everything worked out fine. Good point. But really, it would have been unfortunate for teams to have been rewarded for not compensating players because the CBA fell through. Thats as if Shaq just stayed in the paint every game, getting 3 second calls on himself because he hoped that next year they would change the rules and he wouldn't get that penalty called. As far as Pierce - a message to his defenders - do you think he is worth more than Marcus Washington? Was Fred Smoot worth more than Shawn Springs? Carlos Rogers is worth more than any of those three. Lemar Marshall proved he can be at least as effective as Pierce in *one* year of playing the position, and he is more athletic. (although a little older.) GW will not pay Salavea more than Griffin, and that is just right. When you structure your cap like this it is based on ability, and the ability gets the money. Lets not act like Pierce was Ray Lewis or Jonathon Vilma, cause he's not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxSpearheadxX Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 5yrs 15 million and a 5 million dollar SIGNING BONUS for a journeymen Guard who the Lions didnt want is overpaying. Next time a Cowboys fan opens his mouth, think of Kyle Kosier's contract and smile DWinzit, you're post above mine was #645 for you and my post right below yours was #646. Creepy... :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: Jesus I didn't even know that! Hey, in regards to Michael Barrow - it wasn't a "bad" personel move, it was a calculated risk. He was a probowler coming off an injury and we paid him as such. It didn't work out, but Griffin, Washington, Springs, Randy Thomas, Clinton Portis did. You can't look at singular signings in that way - because they are balanced out by 2 things: 1) What did signing Michael Barrow *stop* us from doing or signing? Probably nothing. 2) Did we not have a suitable backup in case he didn't work out? No, we had 2 Lemar Marshall and Antonio Pierce (who was good enough that a division rival hired him). You can't think of it as money that is "unearned", that isn't the point. The point is how it affects the cap, and that and that alone is the gamble. Not the "number" on the contract years or $$$ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XxSpearheadxX Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 Yep, with Gibbs on board the Snyder trashing should finally come to a close.It will only be overpaying if we don't make it to Miami! In terms of Barrow(and Trotter for that matter) does anyone else think we maybe should have kept them around for 1 more year? Not that I was a big fan, and I don't know the salary cap ramifications, but give 'em a chance (sort of like Patten this year) Am I crazy? Barrow was falling apart. He still has yet to start a game I believe. Trotter *wanted* to leave. Thats his deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuiceMan_74 Posted June 10, 2006 Share Posted June 10, 2006 from the outside looking in .....we overpaid archuletta... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DCMONEY Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 I'm a die hard Skins fan and personally I don't like the way the Skins over compensate with draft picks and money. I laugh when people keep saying the money isn't coming out of my pocket. Thats not the point. In this CAP era, there has to be a method to your madness. Even if a player works out, it didn't mean you have to over spend to get that player. I mean if no one else was gonna pay that price, why pay more. Also as i've sated many times before, just because something turns out Ok, doesn't mean it was smart, sometimes it means you just got lucky. If you leave your doors unlocked at night, and you're not robbed, that doesn't mean it was smart. Everyone has their opinion. I'm used to these off season over spending sprees. I just hope like every other season, it pays off this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redskns21 Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 I like how agressive the Redskins are and could care less about those who say that any one of these players were paid "too much" or that any free agent was overpaid by the 'Skins. The fact remains, that the people saying this aren't paying attention to the DETAILS, that or they simply don't have a clue. Almost all of the contracts that were signed this offseason were similar in that there is a lot of "fake" money in those deals to inflate the overall value. Money that the players will never see, they'll either be released or will renegotiate by the time the big money is due. In fact, Peter King of all people recently wrote an article examining this dynamic. Here is the link and the blurb stating this... http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/writers/peter_king/04/17/mmqb.0417/index.html Now we know how the Redskins play Houdini with the cap every year.I hear it every winter -- from editors, readers, people in line at Starbucks. (True story: I got asked at an Orlando Starbucks during the league meetings how the Redskins were able to sign 10 guys to gigantic contracts every year.) The answer: They don't. It's 70 percent funny money. Take the case of linebacker Andre Carter, signed to a reported seven-year, $32.5 million contract on March 15. It's more accurately a one-year, $5.85 million deal, or a two-year, $10.18 million contract, or a three-year, $13.5 million deal. See, the Redskins sign players to long deals, but the contracts are back-loaded, meaning the players would get most of the money in the final years of the contracts, if they get the money at all. And if Carter turns out to be the defensive force the Redskins hope he'll be, they'll almost certainly let him play the first two years, then re-do the deal before the fat money kicks in. Specifically, in Carter's case, he has two major slices of money he may never see: $13.4 million, combined, in five separate roster bonuses to be earned if he's on the roster in 2008, '09, '10, '11 and '12; and salaries totaling $8.9 million between 2008 and 2012. Collectively, that's $22.3 million of $32 million he may never see. Now the other question you have is this: Won't the Redskins get killed on the salary cap if they release Carter after, say, two years? The answer is not really, because the only part of his contract that's guaranteed is the signing bonus, which is $5 million. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArmchairRedskin Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 from the outside looking in .....we overpaid archuletta... You gotta look at guaranteed money. Arch got a 5 million signing bonus compared to Taylor's 7.2 mill signing. If both of them get their other bonuses, Arch gets a total of 13 and Taylor gets a little bit over 13 mill. The only difference is base salary, but that's not guaranteed money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#1AZRedskinfan Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 from the outside looking in .....we overpaid archuletta... Really? I'm curious as to why you think that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuiceMan_74 Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Really? I'm curious as to why you think that? i dont rememebr the exact number they gave on ESPN...but it sounded like alot for archuleta.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MumboSauce Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 That is the label slapped on this team though... On lunch break last week I saw a football magazine on the newstand with Portis on the cover saying something to the effect of " Skins go on another spending spree" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spear Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 "Overpaid" is an offseason term. It's irrelevant once the schedule is underway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
InTikiITrust Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Really? I'm curious as to why you think that? Now correct me if I'm wrong on these numbers, because they are from when the moves were first announce, so don't shoot me. The Redskins gave Archuleta a 10 million dollar signing bonus. The Giants signed Will Demps to a 5 year contract worth about 12 million dollars (3 million dollar signing bonus). Overpaid? You be the judge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
COOLhandsCOOLEY Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 I have seen what Gregg Williams has done with a lot of "no names" and "journeymen." I think this man might just know something about the kinda guy he wants playing on his defense. I have a feeling that our secondary is going to be legendary, and our receivers are going to be like barnum and baileys. And all will be well in the land of Burgandy and Gold. P.S. TO has BO! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuiceMan_74 Posted June 11, 2006 Share Posted June 11, 2006 Now correct me if I'm wrong on these numbers, because they are from when the moves were first announce, so don't shoot me.The Redskins gave Archuleta a 10 million dollar signing bonus. The Giants signed Will Demps to a 5 year contract worth about 12 million dollars (3 million dollar signing bonus). Overpaid? You be the judge. he's got a point Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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